The concept of crossdressing?

[~Joanne~]

I have often pondered why the term cross dressing / cross dresser ever came into being. Why do we accept this term at all? I feel TS/TG is a valid term as they want to actually become the person they should have been but why is CD?

For many, many, years now GG's have always had the freedom to wear what it is that they chose whether it is bought in the women's section or the men's without a peep being made, no questions at the checkout, or hesitation about buying it to begin with

Once women started wearing men's clothing, companies jumped to make make a female version of it even though women in general still bought the men's. I have been with my GF a couple of times in the men's section and she'll find something she likes and may want to wear and did I get to ask "what, are you a crossdresser?" or did she get dirty looks while wearing it? no.

I have given this a lot of thought lately and find that it bothers me to no end. on a positive note though it has made me a bit bolder when out shopping.

So I guess the question is, what is your take on all of this? Why do we accept this "as is"?

Have a great week
Joanne

[AllieSF]

Me thinks that thou dost worry and protest too much. The history of the terminology has progressed over the years, just like every other word in our vocabulary. Men have the same rights as women to purchase and wear what they want. In the hundreds of times I have purchased women's clothes for wife, girl friends, daughters, sisters, as gifts and for my self, I have only had a few, less than 10 maybe, SA's ask who was it for. The buying raises no concerns to anyone but those that just need to work on their own self confidence and not see a crisis around every corner. Now, for a man to wear women's clothing items, that can be an issue, and yes, we still have a long ways to go before this is ever considered mainstream and a non-issue for others. However, reading all the threads here about all of us who go out dressed from just a few women's items to full blown en femme, including the men with beards or mustaches or clean shaved faces who go out with no problems at all, I do not see the discrimination or unfair treatment that you mention.

Worry less and just work on your own confidence and courage and you will probably have the same experiences. The shy really is not falling.

[Brittany CD]

I have often pondered why the term cross dressing / cross dresser ever came into being. Why do we accept this term at all? I feel TS/TG is a valid term as they want to actually become the person they should have been but why is CD?

I disagree. Many crossdressers like myself don't actually want to become a girl and many of us don't think we should have been born girls. For me personally, feminine clothing makes me want to dress up. I don't know what drives me to have the face of a woman, but I don't look at myself in the mirror and think this is how I should have been born.

For many, many, years now GG's have always had the freedom to wear what it is that they chose whether it is bought in the women's section or the men's without a peep being made, no questions at the checkout, or hesitation about buying it to begin with

I think the difference here is while pants and t-shirts are fairly gender neutral, dresses and heels are still more of a girl thing

[BRANDYJ]

It's what it is. A woman can "man-up", but a man can't "man-down". It goes back to times when women were second class citizens that could not even vote. She was the weak one to stay at home, have kids and raise them and keep house for a man. So we have not out grown that mind-set. It's OK for a woman to look less feminine but not OK for a man to look less masculine. And that's how it's seen not only by other men, but by women too. But I'm sure as hell glad very few women want to look like a man beyond wearing a few manly jeans or shirts! What if she wanted to do the whole thing with fake beard, mustache and stuffed pants? Well that's what we crossdressers do...most of us. We not only wear women's clothes, we wear make up, wigs, pads and heels and hose to look as much as we can, like a woman.

[~Joanne~]

My self confidence surely is lacking It's an up hill battle I am ready to fight for the long term if need be. I don't see a crisis around every corner though. I just wondered if I was the only one who saw it all from my point of view on it and I only have this point of view once in awhile

"Men have the same rights as women to purchase and wear what they want."

In theory this is correct. In reality it is not. If we really were as equal as everyone else there wouldn't be the term crossdressing/ cross dresser.

I disagree. Many crossdressers like myself don't actually want to become a girl and many of us don't think we should have been born girls. For me personally, feminine clothing makes me want to dress up. I don't know what drives me to have the face of a woman, but I don't look at myself in the mirror and think this is how I should have been born.

I agree. I have no desires to "be a woman" if I did that would move me from CD to TS/TG. Like yourself I am just drawn to the clothing which makes me a CD.

I think the difference here is while pants and t-shirts are fairly gender neutral, dresses and heels are still more of a girl thing

ahhhhh, but at one point in time they weren't. One day women decided to stand up and wear whatever they wanted too, men on the other hand decided not to label them as "cross dressers". So I am just wondering why we accept this?


This whole post was just to get other opinions, not to say anything was or is right or wrong in any manner. I am not trying to move women back to the stone ages or even say we are discriminated against though it makes you wonder I looked at this from the point of view that there are probably a Ton of dressers that never admit to being CD or permanently stay in the closet. even if they even consider what they do dressing or not.

[Michaela51]

I am definitely of the opinion that there are two standards at work for men and women. The culture tolerates and actually supports the idea of two women together as lesbians, but reserves harsh attitudes for men found kissing or even holding hands in public. It seems to me that it's men responsible for most of this due to a) having a salacious desire to see two women together sexually, and b) harbor a great deal of homophobia. I believe that that attitude bleeds over into the dressing issue being discussed here. I think most men are threatened by seeing other men being anything other than stereotypically male. I have received many compliments from women who like the way I dress or simply compliment me on how nice I might look in a particular skirt. But most men only provide glaring looks , or turn away not knowing how to deal with what they see.

[AllieSF]

Joanna, I do understand where you are coming from and have read comments similar to yours in hundreds of other posts here. So, you are definitely not the only one who thinks that way. My comments were made because a lot of the people have never been out, and some, if they have, have only been out to TG friendly places. As I have read here from all across the USA and in some other countries too, MtF dressers go out all the time with no issues. The point I would like to make is that, in reality the only person holding you back from going out is yourself and your own fears. Yes, it is more difficult to go out in some parts of the country, but posters from those tough locations seem to get out when they want and to where they want.

No one really makes a big deal about women wearing male style clothes because they make it look so good, and they really do not care what others think. If enough MtF dressers would go out, I truly believe that would change a lot of people's perceptions about what we do, and we would eventually be able to dress as we wish. But without that confident, "I don't care what they think or say" attitude, most will stay in their secure closet, when in fact a lot really do want to go out and explore the real world. It just takes a plan to build up the confidence by going out in the first place. It all starts with the little and sometimes big steps. The turtle does not advance unless it sticks its neck out!

PS: I just want to say that no one HAS to go out. I respect everyone's right to do what they want, and not do what they do not want or are not ready to do. Go at your own pace.

[ReineD]

A woman can "man-up", but a man can't "man-down" [...] It's OK for a woman to look less feminine but not OK for a man to look less masculine.

Conceptually I agree with what you're saying and you share a view that is certainly popular on this board, but here's the thing:

Styles do change over time. It's true that women today dress more masculine than women 300 years ago. But, this is also true when you compare the modern man to the frou-frou worn by the European noblemen during the 18th century. If you remove any comparison to past styles, even the more recent June Cleavers of the 1950s, and compare the modern woman to modern man, there is still a distinct difference in how women portray themselves and how they look compared to men. Today's woman is not "manning up", she is still feminine, even when she wears contemporary clothing!

Now before we go much further, I'm referring to the average woman at the mall, the average teenager at the high school, the average office worker, young mom, woman in her 50s, etc and not the women who do make a point to depart from contemporary feminine styles such as perhaps some butch lesbian or staunch feminists. I'm using these two groups as an example ... I don't want to single anyone out. I hope you know the particular mannish styles I'm referring to.

At any rate, I've conducted a google image search for "women on the street", and these are images that reflect the styles worn by women all around me in my home town:

http://www.realworldimage.com/images...jeans_2349.jpg
http://datingguy.files.wordpress.com...eet2.jpg?w=490
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._-_Croatia.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...n_-_Russia.JPG
http://www.sciencephoto.com/image/41...street-SPL.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1065/...e2631a29c3.jpg
http://emeraldcloset.com/wp-content/...reet-Style.jpg
http://0.tqn.com/d/skateboard/1/0/C/...1TonyDonal.jpg

The very last image are winners of a skateboarding contest and I dare say they look more masculine than the prior images, but these women did dress for a skateboarding competition. Still they look like women to me, as do all the prior pics even when these women are wearing jean jackets and plaid shirts.

I don't consider any of our styles "masculine" by current standards, nor do I think these women are "manning up" by current standards. It may be a stretch, but we need to stop comparing what we wear to prior generations. The women wearing these clothes (that are tailored for a woman's body) also combine other feminine features to complete a total image that looks a great deal more feminine than what guys wear. We can tell which are the women and which are the men.

So the idea that we are "allowed" to man up, is not valid for current times. We very much live in the here and now and dress according to our current feminine styles. It is true that the gender gap is narrowing between men and women compared to the past, there is less of a difference in the cut of clothes since women also wear pants instead of skirts, but still they wear decidedly feminine pants.

... Still, despite contemporary women looking more feminine than comtemporary men, wouldn't the narrowing of the gender gap in styles benefit CDers even more (I should think there would be less to be unhappy about), since in guy mode a CDer's style of dress is closer to what a woman wears compared to the difference between male and female styles in years past?

[BRANDYJ]

Conceptually I agree with what you're saying and you share a view that is certainly popular on this board, but here's the thing:

ReineD, I hope you did not read my post thinking that I am complaining about what women can wear and what we CD'ers or men can't get away with. i'm so tired of hearing how it's unfair that women can wear pants and men can't wear skirts or dresses too....if that's what you meant.

I merely used that man-uyp and man-down terminoligy to further my first statement that it is what it is. And most of the pictures you linked us to, sure look like feminne women and AI'm not complaining. My point was it's OK for women to present in what some would say are more masculine clothes then men are allowed to dress in more feminine fashion due to the man can not appear or act like what most or many would say is less masculine or even gay. It's simply not acceptable even in this day and age due to old standards, I really don't have an issue wiht it at all. Like I said, it is what it is and I'm fine with that.

Now tell the truth, you got all the pictures of these hot women in jeans from Karen Hutton's private stash right?

[Lynn Marie]

I am definitely of the opinion that there are two standards at work for men and women. The culture tolerates and actually supports the idea of two women together as lesbians, but reserves harsh attitudes for men found kissing or even holding hands in public. It seems to me that it's men responsible for most of this due to a) having a salacious desire to see two women together sexually, and b) harbor a great deal of homophobia. I believe that that attitude bleeds over into the dressing issue being discussed here. I think most men are threatened by seeing other men being anything other than stereotypically male. I have received many compliments from women who like the way I dress or simply compliment me on how nice I might look in a particular skirt. But most men only provide glaring looks , or turn away not knowing how to deal with what they see.

[SIZE="4"]I think Michael nailed this one pretty well. What I feared most about dressing and shopping in public was being thought of as gay. That's been a deep seated fear in me for as long as I can remember. Probably from the first time some really stupid kid called me a "queer" or a "fag". Gee whiz, how's a guy ever going to get laid or fall in love if the girls think he's gay! Very big boy fear. One of the great things that age brings is a loss of ego and a fading of the fears. We are what we are. Might as well get dressed and enjoy it![/SIZE]

[LeaP]

For many, many, years now GG's have always had the freedom to wear what it is that they chose whether it is bought in the women's section or the men's without a peep being made, no questions at the checkout, or hesitation about buying it to begin with

I disagree.

On the purchase point - anyone is free to buy virtually anything, made for any gender, anywhere, without a peep or questions at the counter. Intrusive or disapproving questions, that is. I guarantee a GG buying menswear generates the same level and types of assumptions from the SAs as does a man buying women's wear. That is, they assume the GG is buying for a boyfriend, male relative, etc. Men, in fact, buy things for their wives all of the time. The rest of the purchase point is about anxiety when a CDer purchases for himself. That is, the same person who walks confidently up to the counter with a bottle of perfume in hand for his wife suddenly falls apart when it's for HIMSELF. The hesitation is self-inflicted.

Women have greater choice and scope in their clothing, but a crossdressing line still exists. A lot of butch women come close, but most of them don't even cross it. Ask any GG whether it's possible for her to crossdress, alternatively if she's capable of making the distinction. The answer will be yes, absolutely. Individual articles of clothing don't constitute crossing that line and the scope for that is, again, wider for men than for women, but it doesn't mean it doesn't happen all the time with men anyway. I've usually worn women's gloves, for example, because I have small hands, not because I thought of it as crossdressing, and it's never been questioned. I have a bunch of women's winter scarves that I've used for years simply because I like them. Ditto a couple of hats. Ditto jackets. Ditto shorts and pants. I've had a couple of pairs of women's sneakers because I liked them better than the men's choices in the store that day. Etc. etc. etc. All without the slightest crossdressing thought, and all without notice or comment.

Lea

[Gaby2]

[SIZE=4]... One of the great things that age brings is a loss of ego and a fading of the fears. We are what we are. Might as well get dressed and enjoy it![/SIZE]

I particularly liked that comment, Lynn!

Joanne, I find the term CD perfect to describe me and how I feel while dressed.

What is CDing for me?
I've been in relationships over the last eighteen months where access to female clothing has not only been mostly accepted but actively encouraged.
I can theoretically lend and try out what I want. I don't at all.
My own comparatively worthless and out-of-date fashion wardrobe means the world to me - mostly because of past associations.
If I buy something new, I still want to get it myself... my first and only outing with my SO was a little traumatic, to say the least. But I'm looking forward to the future... armed with this first experience.
My time-frame is quite relaxed - Reines Photos (all of them) just whet my appetite for more of whatever awaits me. The contrasts are amazing and drab is just that... boring.
Interestingly though, CDing has emerged as something much more personal for me alone (what it always was!) than I had ever imagined before my first tentaive steps out of the closet.
Gaby

[Lorileah]

Once again I am going to say that the fear of wearing what you want to wear is "Yours" and not everyone else's. Women who dress in mens clothing may not get the verbal abuse but just watch and see how many skewed looks they get from those around them. There is a fear by the general public of saying anything because they don't want to be labeled "sexist". But stealing and changing a song from "Avenue Q" everyone's a little bit sexist. That is shown actually in the OP's (and at least one a month) post here. Some complain about not being able to wear what you want while women can do whatever. It wasn't always so. Women at the turn of the century who wore "bloomers" were treated pretty much the same as a man in a dress is now. You are the thing that will turn this world into a flaming fireball. In the 30's and forties, women in slacks were considered as either wanting to be men or having lax morals. But they decided to not back down. Look around here at the number of men who won't or don't stand for what they can wear. In fact men are the ones who gave up that right. Men wore skirts, lace, perfume and make up. It became associated with the upper class and fell out of style when certain pleople started running around like chickens with their heads cut off, literally.

On a daily basis I wear clothing that is purchased from the "women's" department in a store. This will range from 50% to even 100%. So far i have not been arrested for that. Even when I wear 100% "women's" clothing I have been called out maybe 2-3 times. The world has not stopped turning...yet. The people who are the most incensed over it are male (generally women don't care. Some will argue that but the ones who have women who care what they wear are generally involved with the women who "care"read their SO's and the clothing isn't the main worry, but the honesty and dread of sexuality is...whole 'nuther topic). What I am saying here is quit whining that women "can do it" but "Men can't" as if it is the women who are keeping down. It is the men and the male ego. You fear what the men around you will say or suspect. You fear how men will perceive you. You may fear how your SO perceives you. But in real life, most don't care what color or texture your underwear is (or shirt or slacks or socks or shoes...all of which I wear on a routine basis at any given time, in public, in a job where I meet people all day long.)

As far as causal contact ( ie touching or hugging in public) that is a US (and maybe a little Canada) thing. In Europe it is common to see men hug and buss cheeks, they hold hands in public. If the North Americans would quit thinking the everything has sexual connotations life would be better (and trust me lesbians in public are not as accepted as the earlier posts suggests...they are just not called out as much because of said fear of being labels sexist...gay men are fair targets because as we all know they have perversions that you get to see in the media sort of like cross dressers). The people who have trouble with homosexuality have trouble no matter what sex is involved.

It is obvious that even here, we have all the same skewed ideas as the many in North America. Many here still believe they are sexual oddities and thus buy the perversion line. And honestly, when you look at it from a GG stand point we don't do much to alleviate that. Look at what many CD's here use to delineate being a TG...underwear or other fetish wear (i e high and I mean HIGH heels). Now look at what the women wear when they are accused by those here of cross dressing...pants, shirts. Which is more likely to be sexualized?

So, I say this is apples and oranges. I have yet to find a woman who wears men's briefs who says "I feel so masculine in them" They say "They fit me better" or are more comfortable. I say it isn't that we can't wear something, it is because we make a big deal out of it ourselves.

[jayme357]

Reine, you are absolutely incredible! I hope your SO knows just how fortunate he/she is.

It has always been clear to me. The difference between men wearing womans clothing and women wearing mens clothing is in the intent. The man is trying to emulate a female. The woman is trying to do nothing but look awesome as what she is. Kinda simple, but that is where I shine (being simple).

[Miriam-J]

The trouble with any label is that it can't possibly capture the full range of possible and actual ways we use it. In my job as a systems engineer I spend a lot of effort just selecting the right vocabulary to capture a technical concept or to avoid using a term that already has some other wide-spread understanding. In a world where nothing and no one fits exactly into the same category with another, we often have to accept a term just because others understand its purpose.

On a less philosophical note, I think that the term "crossdresser" does a pretty good job of capturing the spirit of those of us who definitely always want to be guys, but also enjoy dressing as gals. "Transgender" is another good term that appears to encompass those who are not satisfied to be guys at all but aspire to really be gals by most meaningsul measures (though this is ambiguous as well).

Miriam

[NathalieX66]

After reading all these posts, my head hurts.

[NicoleScott]

I agree with everything you said Katiegal (post #3) and Scarlet Rose (post #10).
(Hey Scarlet Rose: very clear, thank you.)

[Kaz]

Wierd isn't it... as a teenager in the late 60s and a budding guitar player, I hit the Kings Road in Chelsea and got my Satin jacket and crushed velvet flares and stacked heel alligator shoes... what a formative experience. I later experimented with make-up (with my girl friend), wore nail polish and shopped in women's shops for heeled boots and good tops. I altered all my jeans to be figure-hugging tight (learned to sew and use sewing machines)... and sewed fancy 'patches' all over the place... It was all perfectly acceptable!

How times change!

[Jeninus]

I think everyone is so easily confused with this thing. They start getting so technical it makes your brain hurt.
Crossdressers.... (NOT TS..nothing to do with Ts...Not related to TS...Not even remotely related ,associated with or aligned with TS...is that clear?)...CROSSDRESSERS....wear women's clothing that IS women's clothing, that has no excuse being called anything BUT women's clothing, that CAN NOT be mistaken for anything but women's clothing, that most men would die rather than wear because it IS women's clothing. THAT'S the whole point. THAT'S the thrill. THAT'S the excitement, THAT'S the motivation.
Would you wear panties for men? Of course not. You'd rather fry your gonads in ill fitting underwear with lace trimmed legs BECAUSE it is women's clothing.
That's why Cds wear skirts. That's why Cds wear outragious mini skirts and stockings and high heels. It is because it can not be mistaken for anything but women's clothing.
It is not an excuse to dress camp, or frilly, or girly, like some crazed camp gay comedian. It is about wearing clothing that IS, undeniably, without contradiction, women's clothing.

Once again the Scarlet Rose absolutely nailed it. How many of us here would wear a Utilikilt in public? That ugly thing is the exact analogue, for men, of girl's jeans or pants. No one would mistake it for a woman's skirt and I suppose one could wear that in public with few if any raised eyebrows. And...snot-nosed little 11-year old girls might not even ask their Moms in a restaurant -- loudly enough with their shrill piping little voices for everyone to hear -- "Mom, why is that man over there <pointing> wearing a skirt?"

[Vickie_CDTV]

Masculine traits have always been more prized than feminine traits, and not just in America or even the western world. Women who embrace traditionally masculine roles move up in power, men who embrace traditionally feminine roles etc. lose status. I guess in the past when societies needed more hunters or hard laborers or warriors or whatever it was easier to look the other way when GGs crossed gender boundaries than the other way around.

Why any of that matters today, who knows...

[Cheryl T]

The term began as a derivative of the medical term Transvestite (from the Latin for trans = across and vestment = clothing). Transvestite began to denote someone with a fetish, a sexual attachment to the clothing of the opposite sex and became derogatory. Those that wished to divest themselves from this classification began using the term Crossdresser.
Now things have evolved to TG which is less derogatory and more directed at defining someone who emotionally, psychologically leans more toward opposite sex and refers less to the aspect of clothing.
All the terms coexist, but in people's minds have differing connotations.

[Karren H]

I think that I have more better things to ponder....

[Aprilrain]

Once women started wearing men's clothing, companies jumped to make make a female version of it even though women in general still bought the men's. I have been with my GF a couple of times in the men's section and she'll find something she likes and may want to wear and did I get to ask "what, are you a crossdresser?" or did she get dirty looks while wearing it, no.

Once men flock enmass to buy skirts and dresses companies will fall all over themselves to make a male version, cut for men and to suit and enhance the male figure. But you know that is not what you want!

I have dated and been friends with lots of woman in my time and other than maybe a T shirt or when I was on dead tour I have never seen a woman buy or wear men's clothing for the sake of wearing men's clothing. Most woman don't fit in men's pants so why would they buy them??

When out shopping for woman's clothing have you ever been asked if your a CDer or been given dirty looks? I have bought a dumpster full of woman's clothing when presenting as a man and other than once being asked by a teenaged boy if these were for me I've never been given dirty looks or been asked if I was a CDer, even if I had been who cares what some minimum wage earning flunky thinks?

it may be a stretch, but we need to stop comparing what we wear to prior generations.

... Still, despite contemporary women looking more feminine than comtemporary men, wouldn't the narrowing of the gender gap in styles benefit CDers even more (I should think there would be less to be unhappy about), since in guy mode a CDer's style of dress is closer to what a woman wears compared to the difference between male and female styles in years past?

Many CDers are older, 50+, and I think want to emulate a by gone feminine ideal (ideal for the men of that era perhaps). Besides as has been proven time and time again by members of this board a man CAN wear whatever he wants.

Reine the problem here is we are comparing apples to oranges. Like you said some woman prefer a less feminie style of dress and personal presentation but there is no effort or desire to emulate a man or be seen as a man. The narrowing gap between gender clothing is an affront to the very nature of CDing! In almost all cases men who CD want to emulate and be seen as a woman which is totally different than a woman like say Ellen Degenerss. I know there are some here who say they only do the wig and makeup thing because they feel they have to go all the way in order to "blend" however considering the fact that most M2F people don't pass is this really a valid reason?

The CDers who whine about this just haven't gotten past their fears go buy whatever you want! Most people don't care.

[Misti]

So I guess the question is, what is your take on all of this? Why do we accept this "as is"? Joanne

After reading all these posts, my head hurts.

...and my a$$ aches, too, Nathalie! This "label thing" has me so p'd off I can't for the life of me understand why I even bother to read this clap-trap "stuff?" (the proper four--letter word is more appropriate here, too). It is beyond amazing to me that this thread, too, hasn't already turned into some type of "Flaming contest(?)" like all the rest before this have. Sssh!

I agree with everything you said Katiegal (post #3) and Scarlet Rose (post #10). (Hey Scarlet Rose: very clear, thank you.)

BTW FYI when I first started down "the slippery slope of CDing" (yikes, only some 16 months and 668 posts ago) I shouldn't/couldn't/wouldn't even dare to make this challenge; so here goes nothing (and I’ll get “flamed for this one too):
Gurls, let's simply vow/affirm right here and now "like everyone else out there does" to: a) just wear what we want, when we want; plus "that" (and I don't mean those baggy/saggy/show the crack of our a$$, gawd-awful monstrosities, asinine ball caps being worn backwards, "making some sort of a statement 'Stuff',” et al.) "which" makes "US" feel better about ourselves; b) have the "courage to wear ~ (see a) above); c) take the consequences of “our radical" actions, like those fearless leaders ahead of us have done, and be "damned" about "IT" (double entendre intended); and d) move on with our lives like "we want them to be!"
Just FYI and edification, in case you didn't know it, life is just too gawd-awful short to "sweat the small stuff," believe you me; as I've just very, very recently been slapped smack dab in the face now with my wife being diagnosed with lung cancer, plus my own 5 disintegrated/bone-on-bone rubbing vertebrae (that have now been RF-ablated with 50% effectiveness).

So the real question before us here is, "what's really and truly important to you; now and well into the future?" When you figure that one out, do “that,” get it right, live it without any regrets what-so-ever, and get on with it. Get a life, albeit your life, 'Nuff said. Period.

[Dawn cd]

In guy mode I wear a lot of women's clothing without any "intent" of appearing as a woman, but simply because I like a softer, more androgynous male look. I wear my hair longer for the same reason. I guess that makes me a classic "crossdresser" who is only mildly TG and not at all TS. I suspect a lot of men wear women's clothing for the same reason—perhaps almost as many woman as wear men's clothes. Get over it, guys in skirts is not the only game around.