I've read here before that most of the CD/TG's use the woman's room when out in public. That's what I have been doing and was told it's illegal. Even if it is, I can't imagine being arrested for this. Thoughts?
Paulette
I've read here before that most of the CD/TG's use the woman's room when out in public. That's what I have been doing and was told it's illegal. Even if it is, I can't imagine being arrested for this. Thoughts?
Paulette
Re: bathroom illegal?
Paulette,Originally Posted by FurPus63
Check your local and state laws. However are they going to check whether you are a GG? Just go in, do the necessary duties and leave.
And just how would they check? Cavity search to see if you have a vu*va and vag*na behind your la*ia? Can you imagine the lawsuits?
Don't sweat it. Even if you don't pass that well, as long as you go in, do your business, wash your hands and leave without creating a fuss, I wouldn't worry, but then IANAL.
So far - six months + and counting, I've yet to have any issues at all. As mentioned above, I've never seen anyone checking and other when I've encountered women they haven't said anything or made any overt expression of disapproval.
I have to feel that if you go in do your business, wash your hands, and adopt the male attitude while at a urinal, i.e. look straight ahead and dont talk, that you will be fine.
Babes
He (she) who would learn to fly one day must first learn to stand and walk and run and climb and dance.
- Friedrich Nietzche -
I may never get to fly like the other girls, but I do so want to dance, so I continue to climb.
I could see where that could really be risky. Imagine if you will, a mother and her child in the restroom and you walk in. No foul intentions meant but if she screams or panics, you could be in trouble big time. And by big time, I mean at minimum being singled out by store security or worse the police.
As said above it may depend a lot on where you are living and how liberal or conservative are the people, store and restaurant owners and law enforcement. So, where are you located?
Oh dear. Here we go again.
The thought, or actual occurrence, of this is really kind of silly. When was the last time YOU heard of a screaming mother and child panicking in the lady's room???? Come on now. Think. Be honest. Wouldn't it be in all the papers? This just doesn't happen. It doesn't.
Perhaps because you have no real idea of what it's actually like in a lady's room. They have STALLS. The stalls have DOORS with latches on them that latch from the INSIDE. The toilets (where we women sit down to do our business) are INSIDE these stalls. It's all very private. There is really very little opportunity for all of you perverts to molest poor innocent women and children.
What is far more likely to happen (and what has actually happened) is that a small framed, easily overcome trans woman was assaulted and seriously beaten after she come OUT of the lady's room by two large, bigoted, transphobic customers in a popular fast food outlet (MacDonalds), while other uncaring customers stood by and watched.
Stephie
Last edited by Stephenie S; 03-07-2012 at 01:27 PM.
It's only illegal if you get caught!! And end up on "Cops"! Or the local news.....
I can see in the future; TSA agents station at every bathroom door, and you walking
through a Xray monitor to see if you have some extra parts. LOL
Rader
This all comes down to how "passable" the CDer is, or failing that, how well she is able to blend in. At worst - and unless she opens her mouth and hasn't yet perfected her feminine voice - the other patrons will simply assume that she is a very masculine looking woman (of which there are plenty) or else a butch lesbian.
Each CDer needs to take a close, hard look in a mirror and be brutally honest with herself as to how passable or blend-able she is under those circumstances, and before deciding to venture into a women's washroom without risking getting any curious looks or negative vibes. If she then feels that she can do this, she can likely safely proceed. As others here have said, no one is going to raise a fuss or attempt to "out" her if there is any doubt as to her true sex, because the deterrent here is that to make any mistake in that regard would come right back at the accuser. Odds are, it wouldn't be a pretty picture for her then, as making a false accusation would land her in deep doggy-do, not to mention a possible harassment charge or civil anti-discrimination legal action. And the security rent-a-cops and the owners of the establishment where the washrooms are located could be dragged into the fray as well.
Of course, if the CDer is of the fetishistic, sissy-maid persuasion, into public humiliation, and dresses in a tutu accessorized with a bustier, garter belt with fishnet stockings, micro-mini skirt, and 6" "f*ck me" stilettos, then all bets are off...
Actually Stephanie, a good friend of mine had one of those screaming mothers cause a scene at a chain restaurant near the very liberal city of Berkeley, California across the Bay from the more liberal city of San Francisco. The police got involved and nothing ever happened beyond the husband chasing my friend's car with her and her T friends inside the car out of the parking lot. The police who later contacted my friend told her not to worry because she did nothing wrong. My point here in sharing this story, which was also written up on this site about 3 years ago, is that shit happens everywhere and usually, according to Murphy's Law, when you least expect it. We all need to be mentally prepared for the worse and hoping for the best.
I also want to add racist to this overall picture which may have been another motive in this case. The two women that did this were seething with hatred none the less.
I did see the video taken in this case and it was absolutely sickening. My heart never went out as much as it did for this girl. I hope they got the book thrown at them and the idiots that stood there filming it thinking it was "cool" did as well. it was not cool by any means.
Flip Flops were made for Beaches & Bath Houses, We have neither in 2017. Lose the flip flops!
Again I would agree don't linger, besides you look good enough for it not to be a big deal
I was here. I remember that thread and post. Was it actually your friend? I could find no corroborating evidence about it at the time. Did it really happen? Or was it just another urban legend?
Stephie
Legally it depends on the laws. Socially, it depends on the individual, and the location the individual is in. At least, I know in California, the enforceable presumption is to use the bathroom for gender you are presenting. However, caution and prudence should be used. This is rather subjective, unless you have actually had reassignment done, or in process of having it done, and followed the appropriate legal processes - because in the end you would still be a male in the female restroom. With this said, if a genetic male CD is dressed and presenting as female (ie mannerisms, walk, dress, potentially talk) it is legally ok to use the female restroom for the purposes of a restroom's design - to go potty, wash-up, or retouch makeup. A female presenting as a male could use the male restroom for generally the same purposes. However, any extra lingering or other use could be interpreted as inappropriate, and could be deemed illegal. On the other hand, if a male CD is presenting as a male, but as one wearing women's clothes (ie beared, wearing a skirt and top), it would be tough to legally say you were passing as a lady. In this case you would be obligated to use the men's room. Either way can be touchy depending on the environment, people (type of people), type and number of families, location, time of day will all factor in when deciding if a bathroom should be used. For example, if at a Starbucks, it could be deemed very appropriate for a CD to use the female restroom - whether presenting as a passable woman, or non-possible one. The reasoning is that Starbucks mostly all have single stall, locking door facilities. Also, CA law allows either genetic or presented sex equal opportunity to use single stall, locking door bathrooms, if that is the only logical option at the time. I'll use Starbucks' womens' rooms even in drag if i need to (and I'm polite enough to clean up after myself). But where a CD who is presenting and passing as a female could use ladies room at a Box store like Best Buy, or restaurant like applebee's during brunch w/o hassle, a CD who is clearly a man in a dress would not be welcomed in the women's room. for the purpose of this topic, (S)he should use the men's room. If this is a busy location, the non passing CD risks harassment in this scenario as the restroom could be filled with non understanding genetic men. Or, upon exiting, a non understanding person could position themself at the bathroom exit. If at a quiet place, the non passing CD may have an opportunity w/o harassment. The safest bet in any location is to find a family bathroom, or a single stall (unisex preferably, or a separated sex) with a locking door. This is also a reason to travel in pairs... if you can't find a place where an acceptable bathroom is available for use, your partner (read friend) could stand outside to ensure you aren't snuck up on, or to warn others that a crossdresser is in the bathroom and to enter at their own discretion. I have read that other states have similar guidance - but few have a protective status like CA does. i'm sure lambda legal has links to the various rules about this.
when in doubt, smile
You don't state for what purpose your friend was using the restroom, but i assume she was a CD presenting as a female, and using the bathroom for its intended purpose, and only that purpose. In this instance, per California, and actually San Francisco County laws, the police would have no legal recourse to cite or detain your friend for her use of the female restroom. The lady and husband (and probably family) were just not tolerant of Stephanie, and called the police as a complaint for being offended, and not understanding the rules of the land.
ps - my rant above states beared... that should read bearded.
when in doubt, smile
I don't know where you are located but here's what the Transgender Law Center in California told our TG support group, the River City Gems, when we asked.
Quote: "California law prohibits discrimination in public accommodations based upon gender identity. A “public accommodation” is a private entity that owns, operates, leases, or leases to someone, a place of public accommodation. Places of public accommodation include a wide range of entities, such as restaurants, hotels, theaters, doctors' offices, retail stores, and other establishments that open their doors to the public.
Under California law, sex includes gender identity and gender expression (Cal. Gov't. Code § 12696) so a person who is a cross dresser would also be protected by the law. Although there is no case on point, Transgender Law Center believes that "full and equal accommodations" means that all women, regardless of their transgender status (CD or TS), are entitled to access the women's restroom in accordance with their gender identity.
There is, however, a "gray area" with regard to this law in that some public accommodations may try to require a person to have ID that matches the gender of the restroom they are using. Transgender Law Center does not believe this is a lawful policy, but if a public accommodation did implement such a policy, it would need to check all individuals' IDs, not just those women it "suspects" are transgender." Unquote
IMHO the only potential caveat I can see is that this law (the California Non-Discrimination Law Cal Gov Code § 12926 specifically, as defined in Section 422.56 (subsection C) of the Penal Code) that prohibits discrimination based on gender identity, appearance and behavior in the areas of employment (public and private), housing, public accommodations, and education, is that I'm thinking that this law applies to people who are identified as "Transgender".
How does the law identify who is and isn't "transgender?" Does it require you to have a therapist and be diagnosed as having GID? or is being transgender defined by self identification based upon a person's internal feelings of their gender identity? In the above I quoted text the Transgender Law Center saying that it believes that "full and equal accommodations" means that all women, regardless of their transgender status (CD or TS), are entitled to access the women's restroom in accordance with their gender identity, but this is what they "believe", no one has tested this distinction in the courts yet. For sure if you are TS, have a therapist etc the law is definitely on your side, but a part-time girl who is a CDer, that self identifies as TG ... I don't think anyone knows how that would hold up in court.
.
The River City Gems - Northern California's largest and most active crossdressing & transgender support group!
I don't know the laws of your state or community but I've never had any problem using the ladies facility. Number one rule though ALWAYS SIT, when finished wash hands and skedaddle. The longer you linger worsens your chances of being outed.
Luv andJill
Straight, into Fantasy Land
Yes, that's the law in Cal! Yet, when I asked the employees at Disneyland in SoCal which rest room to use, I was advised in no uncertain terms, if I was caught in a Ladies rest room, I would be throw out! I think picking a rest room when dressed is kind of like sky diving. U do so at your own risk!
U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.
Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!
Stephnie, I don't consider going out dressed an exercise in "manning up." The best route to take is that which minimizes the chance of difficulty. A reasonably passable person dressed en femme is far less likely to have a problem with a brief visit to the ladies' room than that same person is walking into the men's room. Do that and you might as well hang a sign around your neck saying "I'm a crossdresser, harass me!"
Eryn
"These girls have the most beautiful dresses. And so do I! How about that!" [Kaylee, in Firefly] [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"What do you care what other people think?" [Arlene Feynman, to her husband Richard]
"She's taller than all the women in my family, combined!" [Howard, in The Big Bang Theory]
"Tall, tall girl. The woman could hunt geese with a rake!" [Mary Cooper, in The Big Bang Theory]
Sherry, next time you have to go at Disneyland, try to wait until you get to California Adventrue where they have fanily/unisex bathrooms.
I am transgendered and transitioning. At the college that I attend I have been banned from the men's restroom. Security informed me that I MUST use the ladies room. I have been using the ladies room everywhere since then, and have had no problem at all. I just make sure that I sit down!
if this were facebook, i'd "like" this post.
when in doubt, smile
Stephie,
Your post confuses me. No, she wasn't and isn't my friend, a cyber ghost told me all about it. I trust that ghost and find no reason to corroborate, nor provide and collaborating evidence about what she said to me. Around here in the SF Bay area, that type of thing normally never ends up in the news, unless a public figure was involved or some big crime was committed. If you do not want to believe it, that is your prerogative. But I must say, I am surprised that you are doubting what I wrote. Why, may I ask? Do you know her? Have you talked with her, or do you just mistrust anyone who says something that does not follow your belief? My statement in this post was to clarify that that type of stuff does happen, not very often and never to me personally after probably over 200 times out using the women's restroom probably 400 plus times (I have to go a lot!), including in theaters, museums, top restaurants, and everywhere else, including 3 days in Las Vegas and a few times out in the Detroit, Michigan area, including at their wonderful museum.
Actually, I am the urban legend and also another cyber CD ghost is writing this thread. If you still doubt what I say, by all means contact me with a PM so as not to detract further from the OP topic. I will hopefully be able to answer all of your questions. Or better yet, come here for a visit and a guided tour from a cyber ghost and I will gladly introduce you to her, if she would want to meet you. Or even better yet, find that old thread and contact her personally. She is still alive and well (I am not sure if she really ever comes here to this site much) and she "really" went out to a play with me last month in Berkeley.
To further clarify, I do not post bullshit here, because that is not how I am, nor how I act.
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