when does Crossdresser become Transsexual if ever

[Michelle.M]

Thanks.. just looking for a line of reasoning why one would think the majority of CD are actually TS.

You know, that's an excellent question to consider. I think in some cases it's lack of information, in some cases it's anti-trans bias or ignorance.

I wish more people would ask probing questions like you just did!

[whowhatwhen]

Confirmation bias?
If a GG just finds this site and looks through some posts which could be seen as a CD actually being TS then that may affirm what they already believe.

A few friends and a small forum on the internet aren't a big enough sample size to say all CDs are TS.
Unless anyone with more Science! wants to correct me.

[Katesback]

Kitty I think your wrong about CDs. A lot are TS yes but its not known how many are. Others are not and so we just have to be clear!

Thanks.. just looking for a line of reasoning why one would think the majority of CD are actually TS.

[Lyric]

I have seriously studied this subject for several decades and can say without doubt that all males who wear women's clothes are not necessarily transsexual. This train of thought stems from a tendency many people have of wanting to believe others are similar to themselves. In fact, there are even many distinct types of "crossdressers" as well as different categories of transsexuals. Nature loves diversity, but society does not. The same sort of narrow mindedness that causes many people to look down upon transgendered persons seems to have effect within the transsexual/crossdresser community as well.

Personally, I know exactly what I am and it is not transsexual, but it is just as valid as transsexuality, homosexuality or heterosexuality.

Lyric

[Rianna Humble]

I have always read that any MTF TS person must live as a female for one year before SRS commences which could be concluded as crossdressing. I though it was a necessity based on health care procedures. Anybody with facts can feel free to correct me.

I'm sorry, Marleena, you couldn't be further from the truth here. By the time that we come to the Real Life Experienceofliving 24/7 as the woman that we know ourselves to be, we have already tried the cross-dressing as a coping mechanism and found it inadequate.

I gave up cross-dressing the day that I started my RLE.

I also believe (maybe mistakenly) that many TS girls start out as crossdressers before discovering the truth which may lead one to believe many crossdressers are actually TS girls in waiting.

Some MtF TS, try to delude themselves that they are men who like to cross-dress. Others, like me, try it as a coping mechanism to avoid the inevitable. In this latter case it is most often doomed to fail because we are not men.

This thread confirms what I have always believed. Crossdressers are Transexuals in denial. I think it's very important for the so's of cd's to read this thread and in particular Julia's words.

I hope that many SO's of cross-dressers do read this thread, but that they come up with a different conclusion to yours.

There is a big difference between a woman, born in the wrong body, but trying to use cross-dressing as a coping mechanism on the one hand and true MtF cross-dressers who are men wishing to dress some of the time as a woman.

I appreciate that from the outside, the symptoms seem to be similar, but the root causes could not be more different.

I have been quite dismayed by the contributions of certain people in this thread who should know better than to try to muddy the waters as they have done.

Some who (apparently for their own amusement) have tried to insist that most CD's are just TS in denial regularly post in another place that they do not believe even half of us who know ourselves to be TS. Apart from amusement at muddying the waters, I'm not sure what they seek to gain by their contributions to this thread.

[Annette Todd]

I don't like categories.
I don't believe wanting to express a feminine side means you're Bi or gay. Personally I have no attraction to other males.
I do what I do for me!
I also am not ashamed of being straight sexually.
Maybe your reading railroad holds most passangers. Thanks anyway but I'll drive.

If this sounds too blunt, sorry.
Just paying my 2 cents.

Cheers

[Katesback]

Sweety I never said that all crossdressers were TS in denial. I NEVER said CDs were gay. Finally I NEVER said they were perverts. I am not sure how you can even deduct that.

Kate, that is not the proper read on this. Crossdressers, like myself, want the truth about crossdressing presented, not the myths. We are not gay, we are not transexuals in denial, we are not perverts, etc....

[Marleena]

What is comforting to see is acceptance and help from parents for the younger kids that identify as TS. Hopefully it will continue so these kids don't have denial and repress their feelings like what has happened in earlier generations. A lot of emotional pain can be relieved and avoided for these kids.

[whowhatwhen]

What is comforting to see is acceptance and help from parents for the younger kids that identify as TS. Hopefully it will continue so these kids don't have denial and repress their feelings like what has happened in earlier generations. A lot of emotional pain can be relieved and avoided for these kids.

You would hope so, but ignorance is still going to break a few more generations.

Expect more, lots more.

[LeaP]

I disagree. All you have to do is read the threads in the MTF section or know a few in person. I have been around this community a long time and have been privy to the confessions from crossdressers. Confessions about wanting to live full time female, wanting to be with a man, if they were not married they would live the life they really want, etc.

This is clearer to me now. One of the running themes on the site is differences between CDers and TSs as regards the fantasy component on the crossdressing side (as the TS members would put it). Thus you have threads like "would you", "do you ever think about", "what would make you", etc. The TS topics are more typically rooted in the here and now and what they ARE or WILL be doing. I'm not implying that one is better than the other. There's simply a completely different mindset involved. A GG might be rightfully concerned about their SO's fantasy life, but these don't make them transsexual any more than a woman who has rape fantasies REALLY wants to be raped. The vast majority of crossdressers would run from the reality and the vast majority of the transsexuals aren't interested in the fantasies.

Lea

[Lorileah]

when they win the lottery!

I agree in part with that and IF I would win the lottery, it may sway my feelings at this time. However I also have the contentment with how I am right now.. I know tat does not make sense but on this train we are talking about, right now the major station you speak of (TS) is just not on my itinerary. It was (or would have been if I could have afforded the ticket and the destination was as good as it is now 30 years ago).

However I don't think the majority here ever aspire to your holy grail. The majority here are satisfied with what they have as far as physicality. IF you are TS you are TS from birth. It is not an upgrade. To paraphrase Sondheim "When you're a TS, you're a TS all the way
from your first desire to your last dyin' day." I don't think you change to become a TS. You is or you isn't. And all the TS's here cannot convert the CD's, GQ's, TV's, DQ's to join the club. I don't see this as a journey. The TS's here may have made it a journey though because they had to come to grips with the facts. And they may have tried to fit a lifestyle that they were not supposed to be in. Most subgroups do that. Gays try often to be straight. Tomboys may try and be prom queens. Even the Amish try the new world for awhile. And in most cases they return to what feels right. Silk purse: sows ear.

We are not any one thing. We are a rainbow so to speak. It is not a continuum.

[Inna]

As I had read all the replies, I tend to start seeing transgenderism and all its inclusive plateaus in less linear fashion. Said that, all the fractions are intertwined with each other by common thread and overlap in some points and do not in other. However a bigger question which I seek answer to as to CD becoming TS seems closer at hand, however I stress, [SIZE="3"]I am in no way implying nor forcing this assumption on the public at hand[/SIZE].

I believe that instead of smooth transition brought forth by final upheaval, a stressful instance bringing an individual to a decision, such eureka of self affirmation comes as a shocking and critical cross over to the never never land of what dreams are made of and let life take me instead of I will do it my way.

By my own experience, I had come to crossroads of existence, I could no longer tolerate living and so 2 choices remained, inevitable, both were sort of end of life as we know it, with one of them being more of a literal then other.

Well, I am still writing this post so the choice was obvious but I did chose truth over deceit, pain over comfort, unknown over deceitful feeling of being loved and belonging.

I can honestly say that such decision would have NEVER happened did I not come to this grave place of decision. Have I had a better understanding wife, a better economical stance I would go on, and that is absolutely definite, Still CDing and feeling femininity through such expression.

What this thunderstorm of emotions did for me was a realization that I live in the world of pretend, imaginary in every way possible, in a glass bubble and CDing was one only real instance to touch truth to allow love to flow through my broken heart.

So without any choice as to go on in status quo, I only made one step I could, and that was to go and embrace TS as my road map. Slowly then I started to see more clearly how deceitful my thinking was when in denial, I no longer feared rejection, I no longer felt word Transsexual was dirty, I no longer was hiding behind the facade of wrong unfitting AVATAR, I was free to be whom I always been but denied it and sent to the abyss of unconscious.

[kittypw GG]

I wish more than anything on this earth that my ex wife would have kept her promises to me.
She did not. As you said if she would have approached her true feelings in a fully honest fashion then I could have avoided all the heartache and pain by not marrying her to begin with.

Your experience certainly proves that it works both ways. You were always up front about yourself and were "duped" because your wife could not be honest about her feelings until your transition was in her face. That is when she faced the reality of what she promised. It is equally destructive when a gg so hides her feelings and goes along with things she is uncomfortable about hoping it will go away. I can relate to your pain Julia.

[Being Paige]

Kate / Julia.

OMG that is me . I may never live the life that I want to live, and I know that I am more then just a cross dresser. I may just struggle with this for the rest of my life.

[Julia_in_Pa]

Paige,

I understand all too well.
stay strong.



Julia

[sandra-leigh]

You are going to wake up one day with multiple mental health issues and the panicky feeling that your life has just gone by without you fulfilling what you were born to fulfill.

I think that happens to a lot of people anyhow.

Over the last 20 years, my close friends have mostly married, had children, and worked at a variety of important technical positions at some of the top technical companies in the world. Meanwhile, I am common law, no children, and been stuck in the same work for 20 years, in an organization whose rules do not allow for me to be promoted no matter how good I am. No travel or training or conferences for me either. Oh, and I would get in trouble if I were to take post-grad courses at night, as it would be assumed that I was working on those while I was supposed to be working. The city I live in is 1000km each from the nearest city of comparable size in the same country.

So long before I realized I had gender issues, I was already feeling isolated and "passed by", "stuck", life "on hold", unfulfilled, not doing what I was born to do.

The gender issues... well, they don't make the situation any easier, that's for sure. But I do know that transitioning as TS would not solve a single one of those other issues.

[ImAlexis]

Fine... I'll be the one to take the medical/psychological route. Note: I'm going to use some terms that people will find insulting, cold, and detached. It's not my purpose or intention to use certain words in a judgmental fashion.

Cross dressing is the act of dressing of the other gender, and can be used as a description for those that do so but don't fall into any other category. It can be done for many reasons, from life style to neuropsych* disorder (gender dysphoria, etc).

TS/TG are individuals who's gender (which yes, is a spectrum) does not match their phenotypic sex** (outward appearance) to the point of causing distress that affects their everyday functioning. While CDing can be a lifestyle choice, I do not believe someone would go to the length of medications and surgery because they made a choice to be the opposite gender. While, yes, the concept of gender dysphoria as a disorder can, has been, and is used to promote discrimination, the disorder part comes from the distress caused, which decreases quality of life.

Do TS/TG individuals cross dress? Yes. However I would not call a TS/TG a crossdresser because it isn't a lifestyle choice that can simply be turned off.

*I personally like the term "neuropsych" since it incorporates the concept of structural and functional causes of psychatric disorders.

**Sex can be divided up into genetic sex (XX and XY being the normal states), gonadal sex (ovaries or testicles), and phenotypic sex (outward appearance). Gender dysphoria would a discordance between phenotypic sex and gender, whereas an individual with complete androgen insensitivity syndrome (where they lack the receptor for the type of testosterone responsible outward appearance and secondary sexual characteristics) would not be a TS, despite their genetic and gonadal sex not matching up with their phenotypic sex and gender (they are XY, they have undescended testicles, but look, develop, are raised, and generally accept being a female).

[Julia_in_Pa]

Alexis,

I'm not meaning to brow beat you here but being TS is not a lifestyle choice.
That implies that it was the transsexual woman's decision to be TS.
Since transsexual and intersexed conditions are considered medical it is a medical need and not a choice.



Julia

[ImAlexis]

Let me clarify something because I never meant to say or imply (I can't see the former, can see the latter in my post) that TS/TG is a life style choice.

Cross dressing as an act = multiple reasons, which can include lifestyle.

Cross dresser as a label for an individual = lifestyle.

TS/TG = Discordance between phenotypic sex and gender = not a lifestyle choice.

[Bree-asaurus]

Cross dressers don't become transsexual.
Transsexual's who thought they were cross dressers always were transsexual.
Many transsexuals can and do languish for years under the weight of excuses as to why they cannot transition.
You know who you are here on the forums Ms. Crossdresser.
Your the one who keeps attempting to ignore those " feelings " of needing something more, much more.
You feel trapped by life. Family, house, career, etc.
That's why for years you attempt to convince yourself your just a cross dresser.
I've seen this before many times.
You are going to wake up one day with multiple mental health issues and the panicky feeling that your life has just gone by without you fulfilling what you were born to fulfill.

Tick Tock goes the clock. That feeling that you just got punched in the stomach is your alarm going off telling you it's well past time for you to act.
This is why you see so many late transitioners.
There's nothing wrong with that but imagine if you transitioned when you were in your thirties instead of your fifties.

Life is up to you , the question is are you going to do what you were meant to do.


Julia

Totally agree.

Crossdressers don't become transexual.

Some transexuals may THINK they are crossdressers for a while as they continue to repress their true identity.

I've known transexuals that never crossdressed and never wanted to until they actually began transitioning.

[StephanieC]

I think I lean towards Julia's point on this: TS who CDed may have already been TS. However, at the time, people don't always know where they are much less where they are going. This may be denial but it may also be a genuine lack of knowledge that a certain direction is possible. It may be many years before a person realizes they are actually on a journey and cannot fully apprehend the destination until they arrive.

However, I will say this: at some point between CD and TS, I think people make a conscious decision. At that point, they realize where they are and what may be possible and deliberately make actions to go in whichever direction is preferable. I think hormones or other body changes are such indicators. For example, the CDer who really likes to dress up and show off their legs may find that hormones cause a growth in the thighs. So those long skinny legs don't look quite the way they once did. Depending on how they react to that realization, they may find they have self-identified with the CD or the TS and determined which direction they prefer the journey to take.

Now I'm not advocating experiments. I'm only saying that sometimes it's the reaction to little decisions along the way that help us to define who we are and where were are going. But the direction and speed are not always known. Sometimes it is the unexpected, unpredictable things that happen along the way that help us to define and reach our destination.

-stephani

[Kathy Smith]

Inna,
I don't believe that a CD becomes a TS at all. It may work the other way round though. A "normal" (ha ha!) CD has no interest in becoming female, just appearing to be so. However, a TS might go through a CD stage wanting to be female. Just my 0.02 thingiesworth.

[Gillian Gigs]

Sorry, but some of this sounds like, "I can piss up the wall higher than you can". Or I'm right and your wrong. I don't care what name you want to put on it, all I want is to be at peace with myself. I have found my place of peace and that is where I will stay, only you can find your place of peace, no one can find it for you. Life is a journey, so start enjoying it in whatever way you can.

[celeste26]

Actually all this "category talk" is so male thinking. Gives me a headache. Does that mean I'm TS?

[STACY B]

CLICK,,, CLACK,,, CLICK,,,CLICK,, It was just me sneaking out !!!