Why do i (we) crossdress? Medical insights:

[Krististeph]

I posted a reply to Paula’s (_56) comment of “face blindness” (pathology of the fusiform face area in the fusiform gyrus, prosopagnosia) earlier- had a few comments back to me so I thought I’d post this as a new thread- since not everyone here may be aware of this.

Being CD or TG I think gives you good reason to look into how one's brain works. The fusiform gyri where facial recognition takes place is kind of a hard-wired area, like Broca's (language) area. And the BSTc area of the human brain- which in CD and TG is female sized, high correlation.

That's right- if you are looking for a physical sign or cause of why you are CD or TG - there is a high probability this areas of the brain, then this area, a.k.a. central subdivision of the bed nucleus of the stria terminalis (BSTc), in the amygdala, a small portion of the inner brain (basic brain functions)- check out these two links- this should shed some light on what you are talking about-

http://www.transgendercare.com/medic...n_sex_diff.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stria_terminalis

I’ll relate this FFA and Broca’s area to my students, in contrast with math skills (no pre-processing areas yet developed in the brain fo math). Thus, to get decent at math, you have to do ‘soft programming’, or a lot of repetition. It’s like writing a calculator program for the computer, insead of buying a calculator. You can do it- it just take longer and requires more practice. Not even hard practice, just a working lots of simple problems until you can do some in your head, then very slowly increasing the complexity. Unfortunately, math taught in high school and in college comes way to fast to really get the ideas down as a ‘reflexive action’, this is never so evident as when I have a great engineering student- all the way up through Calc III, A’s and B’s, and then try to get them to use basic math to _analyze_ a circuit…. It is dangerously frustrating to them- until they learn to see their brain function in terms of hard wiring and soft wiring.

CD and TG is not something that you can softwire- sure you can CD even if you don’t have a desire to do so- a lot of straight nonCD guys have done it once for fun or experimentation. Women do it as a matter of fashion (Don’t get me started on how hot a beautiful girl looks in “man-tailored” outfits… WOW!)

We are hardwired. This is thought to occur during fetal development, somewhere between 8 and 16 weeks if I remember correctly (might be off on the time). If mom’s hormones get a little out of whack, not sure of the reason- I’m sure someone here can elucidate more on the subject- zing- the BSTc does not get that little extra push to grow about 1/3 larger as it does in non-CD/TG men. Interestingly, one of the functions of the BST in general is related to inhibition regarding others and stress response- two things quite prominent as non-typical in CD/TG folks.

I just think it’s so cool that we can finally trace this to some hardwiring in the brain.

We CD & TG are literally 'born this way'- so... if one believes what certain fundamentalists insist- that CD or TG or homosexuality is a choice- well, i guess they are saying that we were made wrong, and our creator is flawed... or there is a problem with somebody's logic. Personally, I'd put my bet on the side of whoever/whatever created us... :-)

Several awesome books about the brain in general, that are accessible to the lay-CD (as opposed to the layman... :-))

· +++ "The Three Pound Universe"- Teresi & Hooper, awesome book. – Teresi also wrote with Leon Lederman, the nobel prize winner who led Fermilab in finding the Bottom (beauty) quark and so much more.

++· +++ Consciousness, Hobson: serious insight into your everyday mind and the way you think, daydream, memorize and sleep. (Scientific American Library series)

+++++ Wet Mind, Kosslyn/Koenig; looks the brain as an electrochemical computer, rather than the old view ‘its all electricity’-- I teach electricity, physics, et al, - Koenig gets the brain description better than ever in this book.

+++++ Perception, Rock; shows how your brain turns simple nerve signals into 3d object perception, also: “Eye, Brain, and Vision)- Hubel- freaking awesome especially considering the price- I have close to 70 volumes in this series- the Scientific American Library series- every volume is about equivalent to a 3-4 hour university level course on the subject, and it is written so much better than typical textbooks- it’s like a lecture and textbook combined. Get these- I mean it!

· +++ "the Dying of Enoch Wallace", Ira Black. Excellent reference about brain health and staving off dementia. Wonderfully written- Pulitzer quality- very human, very adroit. This book will move you.

These are all available used on ebay or amazon for less than $5-10 each. You will never think about your brain in the same way... :-)

I hope this helps, even if you don't like my little political/religious comment..../

-Kristi ( happier than ever with my CD brain, a lot due to CD.COM! J )

[sarahcsc]

Wow, being a medical practitioner myself, I must say these information are very enlightening! Thanks!! ^_^ I only know the psychiatric side of the story, not the neurobiological side of it although I was sure we are hardwired in some way(s). I never had a choice as far as I can remember. And I was always trying to get my hands on women garments, no matter the costs! >_<

[kimdl93]

I'd like to submit, again, the hypothesis that those hormonal variations in the womb may have some survival benefits to the gene pool. In a number of species, the aunts and uncles are not reproductive, and in some sense are subordinate to the reproductive adults, but still play an important role in the survival of offspring. Wolves are the most familiar example. But this may apply in humans as well. Through much of human existence, the dominant male was the leader of the social unit, but all members had to contribute if the group was to survive. This continued till fairly recently, in inheritance laws that favored the eldest male offspring. A genetic or hormonal trigger that made younger male siblings less masculine, even to a small extent, may well have contributed to the cohesion and enhanced survival of the family unit.

[Krististeph]

I'd like to submit, again, the hypothesis that those hormonal variations in the womb may have some survival benefits to the gene pool. In a number of species, the aunts and uncles are not reproductive, and in some sense are subordinate to the reproductive adults, but still play an important role in the survival of offspring. Wolves are the most familiar example. But this may apply in humans as well. Through much of human existence, the dominant male was the leader of the social unit, but all members had to contribute if the group was to survive. This continued till fairly recently, in inheritance laws that favored the eldest male offspring. A genetic or hormonal trigger that made younger male siblings less masculine, even to a small extent, may well have contributed to the cohesion and enhanced survival of the family unit.

You have sublime insight Kim, seriously. This is probably a function of recent (5000 years or so) societal influence- gosh, too bad we could not get good statistical info- i'll bet you we'd see CD increasing as per your hypothesis. I'm not a betting person either- this is a great mechanism you suggest! Kick Ass, Kim-babe! :-)

[Krististeph]

Wow, being a medical practitioner myself, I must say these information are very enlightening! Thanks!! ^_^ I only know the psychiatric side of the story, not the neurobiological side of it although I was sure we are hardwired in some way(s). I never had a choice as far as I can remember. And I was always trying to get my hands on women garments, no matter the costs! >_<

i hear you! :-) I'm fortunate to be in an area, and work alongside people who are looking into neurophysiology as the primary component of many psychopathologies- get the book i mentioned- consciousness, and see if the AIM model does not explain hallucinations in general and most schitzophrenic manifestations in particular- wakeful dreaming- if you can understand that- you have the chance of beating it- ever hear of John Nash? Smart cookie- lots of effort- but he did it.

hugs,

-Kristi

[kimdl93]

... This is probably a function of recent (5000 years or so) societal influence- gosh, too bad we could not get good statistical info- i'll bet you we'd see CD increasing as per your hypothesis. I'm not a betting person either- this is a great mechanism you suggest!

Thanks for the cheers....I suspect it might extend even farther back - so long as competition for access to reproductive females was an issue. Ritual displays, chest thumping, head butting and combat are take energy, time and expose the participating males to risks that could endanger the whole group. I wonder if there are any parallels among other social primates.

[sandra-leigh]

I did some searching and found lots of claims that BSTc was "essential" for sexual response, and found some claims that BSTc related to stress response, but I could not find any description of how the BSTc size differences (or neural density differences) correlate to any particular behavior or to any particular stress response. Does smaller BSTc correspond to less stress? More stress? I can't tell.

[Krististeph]

I did some searching and found lots of claims that BSTc was "essential" for sexual response, and found some claims that BSTc related to stress response, but I could not find any description of how the BSTc size differences (or neural density differences) correlate to any particular behavior or to any particular stress response. Does smaller BSTc correspond to less stress? More stress? I can't tell.

The following article relates to the CRF (corticotropin releasing factor) modulation by various parts of the amygdala- not specifically the BSTc- sorry if i misled. As i recall, there are indications of CRF modulation by several areas of the amygdala, the ST (of the 'BST') in general. i'm only quoting what i read- (or trying to)- i'm not trying to come across as a brain surgeon- i just find this stuff pretty interesting- my therapist and the department head at my College are but big time into the neurophysiological aspect of psychology- learning some of this stuff also helps me be able to talk with them and bounce ideas around.

The Journal of Comparative Neurology Volume 506, Issue 2, pages 263–287, 10 January 2008, I don't have permission to post the whole thing, and i am too lazy to go find te specifics that led me to my statement... :-/

Talk to Kim (above) as well, she's put some serious time into tying CD in with anthropological phenomena- pretty cool insight, IMHO.

A neat book regarding stress is "Why Zebras Don't have Ulcers", Sapolsky. warning: it may give you the impetus to simply smack the next fool who gives you grief.... :-)

Do some research on CRF and how it applies to the brain physiology- Brain Longevity is another excellent non-medical reference- Khalsa, w/Stauth. I can't make the jump from the non tech books to medical texts easily- that's what professors are for. But the books i've cited come pretty darn close.

Personally, i don't thing the the BSTc factor has much to do with stress response itself- but i wonder about the often perceived association with embracing femininty as a release or an escape from stressful influences- (no hard data on this- but i hear a lot of references of airline pilots crossdressing- 98% boredom, 2% abject terror). Or maybe because i want to associate CD / TG with people with better jobs or higher IQs.

Never said _I_ wasn't a whack job... :-)

PS- rode my Suzuki 850G up to Alaska once- midwest US - went northwest though CA, then back down the pacific coast and back. Also rode my bicycle up to Regina and back when I was a pup.

[shawnsheila]

Fascinating thread and it supports data I have read and discussed with other CDers about how we are literally born this way. Some other interesting factors is that it is not just in male but females experiences this as well. I also recall reading an article about an island tribe where some males take on the roles as females by helping with the family and are even revered. I suppose the only difference is cultural acceptance. Many females are accepted here in the the US if they were clothes mostly associated to males.... they even have masculine clothing lines/trends. There are some trends (usually for younger guys) that are allowing for more feminine clothing for men such as the mantyhose etc. but it is still taboo for a male to dress as a female here. This thread has really given me food for thought. Thanks for the post

[Foxglove]

Kristi, this is extremely interesting. You know, a lot of TG's say that it doesn't matter to them why they're TG. It matters to me. For one thing, how can you say that it isn't important to know something before you know it? Once you learn something, then you're in a position to decide what that knowledge is worth.

But if it can be clearly established that this research is correct, it will be established that we are simply born the way we are. And surely that will serve to diminish prejudice against us in the minds of people who are capable of any thought at all. Our TGism isn't "our fault", it's not some lifestyle choice that we make, it's not some condition that can be cured, it's not something that we should try to repress. It's simply our nature. We're made the way we are. Let people who dislike us chew on that fact.

Best wishes, Annabelle

[Anna Lorree]

As a TG person and a student going for a BS in Psych, this is very interesting to me. Recognition of the physiological cause of gender non-conformity will probably see media coverage by being tied to similar studies and findings about sexuality, i.e. through the Gay Rights movement. They are far better with the media than we are. For my part, I am glad to know why I am the way I am.

Interestingly, I have difficulty with facial recognition and also with placing a name to the face. The chief reason I would do poorly in sales...

Anna

[Sandra1746]

There is a LOT of hard science represented here and it's going to take some time and thought for me to assimilate. However I'll reply to Kim's hypothesis that CD is more likely in the younger males. I'm the oldest of a pair with a 3-year younger sister so there weren't any older or younger males.

I started with CD before puberty and have been "at it" in varying degrees all along but I am enjoying it a lot more openly now. Being 65 and retired does convey a certain freedom. I was never a 'typical' male. I didn't like sports but I loved solitary outdoor activities such as camping, hiking, etc. Today I'd be classed as a "loner" in school and probably referred to counseling. Back then I was just a science nerd and encouraged.

Why I started is too far back to remember but I must have found it fun or I wouldn't have continued. Now it is relaxing and also fun.

Thoughtfully,
Sandra1746

[Talldrinkofwater]

Wow! That is very interesting, great post! But what scares me now is that this may make me more susceptible to subliminal advertising ploys like "sale" and "bogo." Nah, just having fun...but to be honest I've always had slight troubles with recognizing and rememberingthe faces of people until after multiple meetings. Would that be the "soft-wired" example?

[ReineD]

If mom’s hormones get a little out of whack, not sure of the reason- I’m sure someone here can elucidate more on the subject- zing- the BSTc does not get that little extra push to grow about 1/3 larger as it does in non-CD/TG men. Interestingly, one of the functions of the BST in general is related to inhibition regarding others and stress response- two things quite prominent as non-typical in CD/TG folks.

I agree that gender and sexual variance is hard wired, but are you saying that CDs and TSs lack the fight or flight instinct or it is diminished? Even women have this, especially if someone messes with our kids.

[Anna Lorree]

I agree that gender and sexual variance is hard wired, but are you saying that CDs and TSs lack the fight or flight instinct? Even women have this, especially if someone messes with our kids.

I can assure you I have a fight or flight response. I can also assure you that my "inhibitions regarding others" is different than most of society. I have difficulty sometimes knowing where the line not to cross is, or where the box is (as in I'm out of the box). I can usually gauge it pretty well, but sometimes I miss it entirely.

Anna

[kimdl93]

There is a LOT of hard science represented here and it's going to take some time and thought for me to assimilate. However I'll reply to Kim's hypothesis that CD is more likely in the younger males. I'm the oldest of a pair with a 3-year younger sister so there weren't any older or younger males.

I started with CD before puberty and have been "at it" in varying degrees all along but I am enjoying it a lot more openly now. Being 65 and retired does convey a certain freedom. I was never a 'typical' male. I didn't like sports but I loved solitary outdoor activities such as camping, hiking, etc. Today I'd be classed as a "loner" in school and probably referred to counseling. Back then I was just a science nerd and encouraged.

Why I started is too far back to remember but I must have found it fun or I wouldn't have continued. Now it is relaxing and also fun.

Thoughtfully,
Sandra1746

I'll have to acknowledge that fraternal birth order isn't my hypothesis - its been around a long time. And I certainly don't claim that its the only possible mechanism contributing to different expressions or variations of gender. In fact, research suggests that birth order can only account for about 7% of all homosexual males, even though that represents the strongest influence among quantifiable factors. To clarify, my hypothesis suggests that gender variations, as illustrated by birth order effect, may have a survival benefit for the population.

[ReineD]

I'll have to acknowledge that fraternal birth order isn't my hypothesis - its been around a long time.

Interestingly, Ray Blanchard who coined the term "autogynephilia" also came up with the Fraternal Birth Order theory:

http://cmg-dev.ucsd.edu/classes/bisp...chard_2001.pdf

[Sandra1746]

Hadn't heard the 7% statistic relating birth order and homosexuality; but then this isn't my field, I was an EE. It seems to me that the problem with gender identity and physiology in general is that there's no way to do a set of controlled experiments; just too many variables (and then there are the legal and moral issues).

There is a lot to ponder on this topic and I doubt that a firm answer will be found within my lifetime. However the variability is what makes humanity and life alternately fascinating and troubling.

Hugs,
Sandra1746

[sissystephanie]

I think that it has been well proven that we are born the way we are!! That is, I am a CD/TG because I was born this way! But, and this is the really big factor, I crossdress because I want to!! That is not a physical or medical thing, it is purely mental. No one is forcing me to crossdress! And most probably the same holds true for the other CD's on this forum. Many people say that if you are a CD you can never stop.That simply is not true!! If you have the willpower you certainly can stop!! I did stop completely for a 5 year period and only started again because my late wife begged me to! The point is, your own will power controls your life. Nothing else controls it! Yes, your body does certain things almost on its own, but it is still your willpower that controls your body!

And BTW, I have always had trouble remembering peoples names, even though I may have known them for years. The faces I can always remember but not the names. But for over 30 years I was a very successful Insurance Agent, and not remembering names never bothered me. Very few people mind being asked for their name!!

[kimdl93]

speaking of face recognition....last night I came up with George Clooney before the super recognizer did. I didn't get a good look at Mike Wallace, and had no clue on Dick Cheney, but I recognized Richard Gere and Michael Jordan pretty much instantly. So, I'm not a super recognizer...just a pretty good recognizer

[carhill2mn]

Hi Kristi, thanks for the comprehensive post! IMHO, as people learn more about how the brain functions there will be further evidence supporting the concept that a great deal of what makes a person who and what he or she is comes from the makeup of that person's brain.

[Marsha My Dear]

Wow! This will help my dear loving wife understand the 'why' behind why I like to dress-up. It dovetails nicely- I'm lousy at facial recognition! Thank you for the wonderful posts.- Marsha

[Krististeph]

speaking of face recognition....last night I came up with George Clooney before the super recognizer did. I didn't get a good look at Mike Wallace, and had no clue on Dick Cheney, but I recognized Richard Gere and Michael Jordan pretty much instantly. So, I'm not a super recognizer...just a pretty good recognizer

Hi Kim! my wife can identify voices like she has a nuclear sub sonar processing unit! Literally- first sentence of a voice over- BAM! she has it. She's NEVER been wrong, a few times she was not sure, but she said so up front. Wicked cool!

[Cheryl T]

I am a firm believer that all of this is either genetically based or relates to hormone variations in the womb.
Remember that all fetuses begin as female and differentiate from there. If there is some modification of the hormone balance then it would seem quite possible that being CD/TG/TS would result as a consequence.
Think back to all the effects from Thalidomide usage half a century ago and the resulting birth defects. Why would it be so far fetched that a slight change in a mother's hormones could result in someone being born male but more "inclined", for lack of a better term, to be female?
As I have told friends ... in my generation I have 3 male cousins on my father's side. We come from 3 different mother's, different life experiences and yet they are all gay and I am TG. What would be the chances of that occurring as a result of environmental influences or upbringing? I prefer to believe that it stems from some genetic influence on my father's side of the family.
I have searched for the "reason" all my life and this is the best I answer I can find. It's just who I am...

[sometimes_miss]

We CD & TG are literally 'born this way'

Nope. While I understand why so many people want desparately to believe that, no, we're not all 'born that way'. There is definately a large group of TG folks still searching for 'the one, definitive reason' why we are how we are. But there are many reasons, whether you would like to believe it or not. If you take ten of us, you may very well find ten different causes, and reasons. My life is one example of how you can 'create a crossdresser' out of an otherwise normal boy. I had no desire to crossdress until I was told that god had made a mistake, and that I was supposed to be a girl. Even then, it took a while to convince me that's what I was supposed to be. At that age, I didn't have the knowledge or ability to challenge what I was told (I still believed in Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny too). Sorry to pour rain on your parade.