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Thread: Wife's ultimatum

  1. #1
    Aligning her body & soul sierra_g's Avatar
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    Wife's ultimatum

    Hello all. I am new to the boards. I am kinda new to the scene as well.

    I am 33, and don't have much of a wardrobe. I am kinda metro, but enjoy women's clothing. My wife and I have been married for 4 years and we have a couple girls.

    I opened up to my wife about my enjoyment of cross dressing and how I have worn a few articles of clothing through my years, and even some of her clothes when she wasn't around. She has always known I like her to be the dominant one in our relationship, and I am a gynosupremist.

    My wife has tried to accept it into our lives, and has even gone out and bought me panties, done my makeup, etc. She cannot get used to it. She has given me an ultimatum. Stop it all or get out.

    I would really enjoy some help talking this through. I am not really certain what to do in this situation. I love my wife and kids, but I don't know if I want to (or can) give up my female self.

    Thank you for the help and advice!

  2. #2
    Platinum Member kimdl93's Avatar
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    I think for the moment, the best thing to do is ask for cooling off period. Let her know that you're willing to compromise, but can't promise to give up your feminine side completely and forever. That's not something you can't deliver. But you can give her a break from the gynosupremacy thing and strive become an equal partner in your relationship. The more you put into the relationship, the more you get back.

  3. #3
    Silver Member Leslie Mary S's Avatar
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    This is a tough situation. There is no absolute solution.

    The real question is which is more important your family or your femininity sanity.

    Some of us have gone totally in the "closet" to the point where we have hidden containers of our feminine things. And then we take occasional trips where we can dress-out in the hotel.

    But great care must be taken to not get caught or you could end up as a single again.

    My total coming out started with the unfortunate death of my wife of 36 years.
    I wish I could give you a better answer.

    Good luck in your quest.
    Leslie Mary Shy
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    You do not have to be a man to love a woman, or be a woman to love women's clothes on her or yourself.
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  4. #4
    ADMINISTRATOR Sandra's Avatar
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    How long has she known? Have you been pushing things to much?

    I think you need to sit down and have a very serious chat with your SO. She needs to understand that this is something that in most cases cannot be given up, it is a part of who you are.

    Try and suggest some compromise and see how that goes.
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  5. #5
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    I really feel for the people here who have spouses/SO's/GF/BF etc. who cannot or won't at least give a little bit in the dressing direction.

    The few people who know about me often tell me how lucky I am because my wife is 100 percent supportive. I did tell her way before we married so it gave both of us an out.

    Posts like this really makes me think if marriage vows are really worth the lips they come out of.

    If any of us got sick or got a disfiguring disease, our wives should still want to support us without question. Or would they say oops, diabetes or a heart attack and I am out of here.

    So ask this question to ask her, "Would you rather I have Terminal Cancer or wear a Dress. Your Choice. If Cancer is too strong to think about then how about Leprosy? Would that be a deal breaker?

    So what is the big deal about letting you have some enjoyment with something that makes all of us in the "Dressing Way" feel so good or at least get the enjoyment out of the deed.

    Isn't a spouse supposed to do everything they can to help their partner have a good life? Our wives expect it from all of us. Its OK for us to buy them pretty things and expensive jewelry! But none for ourselves!

    And what about that wonderful word LOVE? Is there only love when the wife gets her own way?

    Even Barney the Dinosaur sings You love me, I love you and what ever makes us feel good should be OK. That sure sounds simple.

    I have read so many posts here about Cross Dressers who have a seemingly perfect marriage except for that UGH dressing thing.

    I find all of this completely unfair.

    Just so its known, my wife of 17 years and I did go through a lot of therapy before and after we married to get to the point we are now. And we still do. The marriage is not perfect, nor will it ever be but my dressing is not ever part of any of our issues. When things get very stressed on my part she tells me that I am not dressing enough.

    I know I am generalizing and rambling here but this should be all simple stuff and not a reason to give an ultimatum and possibly end a marriage.

    BTW, I am strictly talking about Cross Dressing not TG issues.
    Last edited by KarenCDFL; 04-23-2012 at 02:26 PM.

  6. #6
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    Karen, you hit the nail on the head with this
    I know I am generalizing and rambling here
    Your post above does nothing to help either the OP, or other people in the same type of situation. If you have found an answer to help with this situation, by all means post it, but to berate an SO etc, because they find accepting this lifestyle difficult just drives them further away from a solution. One point to remember is that we generally only get the TGs side of the issue, very rarely do we get to hear the other side.

    I also believe that the response given is very much tainted by our own situation, yours is a good one, therefore you cannot understand the non accepting situation. The one thing to remember about what you have posted, just as you have said should the SO not do this that or the other to help the relationship, the same can be said for the TG.

    Relationships are like a tango, it takes two to work in harmony to get it right,
    Listen carefully to what is said, quite often you can hear what is not being said

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  7. #7
    Ice queen Lorileah's Avatar
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    Thank you for reminding me just how lucky I have been in life. Maybe I have a different view of marriage but I don't think a "my way or the highway" is what a marriage is about.

    I have to agree that you need to back off. Knowing that you will never back off totally your whole life, sometimes it is just easier to retreat and lick your wounds, before you make a big charge.

    My feeling is that usually there is a lot more to the story. But the issue of clothing seems pretty petty for an ultimatum. Look around. Is there some reason she suddenly has become so adamant? Are you abusing the privilege? Neglecting something? Pushing too hard? Not to place the whole blame on you, or any of it, but something has here concerned. It usually means, at least in my experience, that the marriage in general has some issues. Maybe it is a transient thing. She may be over stressed and you are a convenient target. But I would be looking deeper into this. Has she given you a reason? Other than she doesn't like it...which in a marriage is not a reason to break up. we all have peeves about our SO's that we don't care for much. Knuckle cracking, toothpaste cap off, doesn't like sushi, underwear on the floor, someone else's underwear on the floor. But when ever the ultimatum is all or nothing it is more than this. Money? Drugs? (I hate to add this) Sex? Not helping around the house? Not showing attention?

    Why do I think this is petty? I don't know anyone who would divorce because someone would not wear a dress, or a suit and tie OR would only wear t-shirts and jeans. If this is what the marriage is about, the clothing, well then it isn't really a marriage.

    Step back, see if there is a bigger picture. Mostly talk. Talk about anything to start but make it just you two. Then maybe you can get the real reason.
    The earth is the mother of all people and all people should have equal rights upon it.
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  8. #8
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    Yes; As others have stated, You got to take it real slow, And you have to sit down and talk with her.
    Maybe set some limits on when and how much you dress, but instill to her it is something that makes you
    who you are. And adds a dimension to you that many other men do not have; A Feminine look into your
    marriage, and a way to anticipate your needs.
    Rader

  9. #9
    Aspiring Member Dawn cd's Avatar
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    Unilateral ultimatums don't really belong in healthy and mutually supportive relationships, but Sierra you created the situation by appointing your wife Supremo. Now it's time for both of you to back out of the corner you've put yourselves in. You both need to stop playing games and face up to real life—for the sake of your daughters if nothing else. You, Sierra, need to stop playing the subordinate and claim your place as an equal in this marriage, and your SO needs to withdraw her ultimatum and work things out in a dialogue. If you can't do it between the two of you, find a therapist who can help you work through it.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by sierra_g View Post
    My wife has tried to accept it into our lives, and has even gone out and bought me panties, done my makeup, etc. She cannot get used to it. She has given me an ultimatum. Stop it all or get out.
    I am not really certain what to do in this situation. I love my wife and kids, but I don't know if I want to (or can) give up my female self.

    Thank you for the help and advice!
    Its her right to not accept it, It your right to walk once there is an ultimatum. That's one of the the consequences of an ultimatum
    Last edited by Miranda-E; 04-23-2012 at 03:08 PM.

  11. #11
    My Ship has sailed? Barbara Ella's Avatar
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    Ultimatums seldom work. You made her the dominant one, and she is asserting her position. From experience, willingness can be stretched thin in the beginning, and there will be a backlash as she tries to absorb all that is coming at her but can't quite grasp it and fit it into her expectations. I am there. The advice given here is spot on, sit down and talk. See what bothers her, and attempt to have some boundaries that are acceptable to both. Don't expect to have it all. Do be willing to take some time off to get an equilibrium back. Keep talking.

    Barabara
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    - Friedrich Nietzche -
    I may never get to fly like the other girls, but I do so want to dance, so I continue to climb.

  12. #12
    Member StacyPump's Avatar
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    I agree with those who say to talk. But I also agree with those who say to take a cool down period. Don't push the dressing...and don't talk too much about it...just for a little while.

    Ultimatums are not good in a marriage, but she does have the right to decide that this is not something she can accept in her marriage. Unfortunately, these boards are filled with stories from crossdressers who tried to give it up for one reason or another, and you also have those daughters to think about...that's why the cool down period is so important.

    I think you should find a good couple's therapist, and talk, talk, talk.
    *StacyP*

  13. #13
    Gold Member DonnaT's Avatar
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    As noted by Lorileah, there could be any number of issues that has caused your wife to jump on the CDing as the main cause of the problems she's having.

    It could be she's just tired of being the dominant partner.

    It could just be the CDing.


    Seems she's worked at trying to accept it. A compromise on her part, if you will. You've not said whether there was any compromise on your part, to help her with the acceptance.


    However ultimatums, no matter the reason behind it, should not be part of a loving sharing relationship. Try to work something out for y'alls mutual benefit.

    Have you ever tried stopping for any length of time before? If so, explain to your wife the results. If not, then tell her you'll try, as long as she doesn't issue any more ultimatums if (when) you fail.

    Of course, you'll still need to find out if there's more to it than the CDing. Otherwise she'll just find something else to rant about.

    I would also suggest, should you decide to try and quit, that you become more assertive at home and bring yourself to be on equal footing with your wife. She may not like it, but just tell her that it's something you have to do to get your mind off the desire to CD.

    The last time my wife gave me such an ultimatum was a little over 6 years ago, after we had been married 30 years, with ups and downs due to my CDing. I told her I wasn't going any where, that she knew good and well that I tried to quit for her benefit, and failed each time. I then told her if she wanted to leave, then go ahead, I wouldn't hold it against her, and I would still love her. We're still married.
    Last edited by DonnaT; 04-23-2012 at 04:24 PM.
    DonnaT

  14. #14
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    I think Lorileah is very perceptive. Sounds like other things may be in play here. I also think it says a lot about your wife that she bought clothes and helped with makeup early on. To me that was a very loving thing to do, especially if she had to overcome biases to participate. Good advise to take it slow and think through the consequences together if possible.

  15. #15
    Psyco Roller Derby Doll. Katesback's Avatar
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    As was said before it is her right to accept this that or the other thing. She has very clearly stated she will not accept it.

    So you make a decision stop or dont or hide it like many do. Problem is she will find out sooner or later and you will resent her all the while. As a matter of fact you will resent her if you choose to stop.

    Having a pretty good insight into CDs I will say you will admit to stopping to her and do it behind her back when ya can. That seems to be the modus oparandi for many CDs.

    Katie

  16. #16
    Gold Member NicoleScott's Avatar
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    Some people have to learn this the hard way: "Never give someone a choice you don't want him/her to take." Is she serious? Can you call her bluff?

    - or -

    You may be a good candidate for Don't Ask Don't Tell. She knows you dress but doesn't want to see or hear about it.

  17. #17
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    Maybe cool off and both think about what the other is asking. Then see if there is a mutual compromise that suits you both.

  18. #18
    Member Aloha Jayne's Avatar
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    Sierra, I'm in the same situation. Came out to my wife last month after 23 years of marriage. She says she cannot accept any part of it, and wants to know what I will do if she never can. It doesn't look good at this point. I'm giving her as much space as I can in hopes she will relax a little. If she can't, I'm not sure we can resolve this. I would tell you to try to communicate, but your wife may not want to hear anything you have to say. If it comes to that, think about your kids and what's best for them. You can give this up for some time, but it will always be a part of you. I got to the point where I had to be honest, or drink myself to death. Hopefully you two can find an understanding. It might help to find a mediator to talk to.
    I just couldn't wear my big girl panties today.

  19. #19
    I accept myself as is Gillian Gigs's Avatar
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    To hear the word "ultimatum" is enough to send a shiver down my spine. No, and I repeat, no relationship can stand for very long when ultimatums are thrown around. Marriage is and should be about love, respect, and acceptance. Compromise is a word that should be used, but never ultimatum!
    I like myself, regardless of the packaging that I may come in! It's what is on the inside of the package that counts!

  20. #20
    Aligning her body & soul sierra_g's Avatar
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    It is amazing to hear what many of you have to say. You talk about failed attempts at quitting the lifestyle and one even relates it to cancer. Is this really what you think of it?
    Stand tall and be proud women. A bit less on the chromosomal push and we would've been true ladies. I don't know any of you, or your stories, but if you are feeling that much shame, you should definitely go talk to someone if you aren't already.

    Now, on to the task at hand...

    First off, we don't lie to each other. No lies, no headgames, no matter how bad. If you don't want to know, don't ask.
    Second, we are currently seeking a counselor, but on Medicaid, and in strong LDS territory, it is difficult to find a decent one with an open mind. The last one we tried called me a pervert and tried to get me to go to a group meeting for perverts held at the Mormon church. I am a strong Christian, but not LDS.

    We talk pretty much every night. I am always hopeful that it will lead to more, but never does. Like I said before, I am kinda metro, so we do mud masks and stuff. Sometimes we will talk till 4 or 5 in the morning about different stuff.

    The compromise between us is very simple. If I feel the need to dress like a girl, I can move out and she will post it pubically. I don't need that. She is the only one in the world that knows.

    I was into ABDL pretty heavily, she did not enjoy that at all. She finds this not as bad, but still pretty bad. I was CDing during that time too. I've been lightly/rarely CDing for about 5 years consitently, with a few times before randomly (mostly high school age till I was 18).

    One of her biggest misconceptions is that all CD's are homosexual. I've tried telling her that most are straight, but no belief. I had some minor gay experiences between 19 and 22. I tried multiple times because I didn't understand my love of women's clothes. I found that I am not gay. My wife is waiting for me to come flying out of the closet.

    Her biggest problems with it are the homosexuality misconception, 2 Corrinthians, and as she puts it, her non-attraction to Lesbians or any woman.

    I don't know if that helps, but I was trying to answer everyone's questions. I am pretty broke and don't have a couple thousand to drop on a place, plus as I said it before, I love her and my kids.

    Thank you all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aloha Jayne View Post
    Sierra, I'm in the same situation. Came out to my wife last month after 23 years of marriage. She says she cannot accept any part of it, and wants to know what I will do if she never can. It doesn't look good at this point. I'm giving her as much space as I can in hopes she will relax a little. If she can't, I'm not sure we can resolve this. I would tell you to try to communicate, but your wife may not want to hear anything you have to say. If it comes to that, think about your kids and what's best for them. You can give this up for some time, but it will always be a part of you. I got to the point where I had to be honest, or drink myself to death. Hopefully you two can find an understanding. It might help to find a mediator to talk to.
    Thank you. Keep me updated on your situation. Good luck to you. It always helps to know we aren't alone in our fight.
    Last edited by Nigella; 04-24-2012 at 02:08 PM. Reason: Merged consecutive posts

  21. #21
    Audrey Michelle's SO
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    Sierra,

    You sound like your head is on straight. I am very proud of you!

    My husband lived, and CD'ed, in Salt Lake City for 13 years as a single man. So, I know the problems that you are dealing with when it comes to finding good support and help. I can't tell you that you need to give in or get out. That is for you two to decide. But, I can tell you that you need to get her to make an account here, and join us. She will learn so much, and she will have women like me to talk to. I know what she is going through. I never gave Audrey an ultimatum, but came damn close for 2 years. Please invite her to join, and let her learn a bit, and to compare what you want to what others are saying that they want. She may be pleasantly surprised, and then may be willing to work something out.

    I hope that everything works out.
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  22. #22
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    Sierra, it is a tough position to be in and depending on how you can put up with not dressing for a while, my thoughts would be focused on your children who , it would seem, are less than 4 years old. If you leave, you leave them in a dire position, children without 2 parents do less well than children with 2 parents. You will be in a bad spot if your divorce because of financial burdens. staying where you are seems to be under duress if I read this correctly " I can move out and she will post it publicly." That is quite an unconscionable threat on her part . Sounds like there may be other issues as well. If she is convinced that you are gay and hiding it, there is little that you can do to change her mind I think. One of the problems for people who are too much controlled by religious notions. And, you admit to us (and to her I suppose) that you actually did try it for a while, so the seed has been planted. If she outs you, you don't have to remain in LDS territory I suppose, but there is the consideration of your children. Not a promising scenario. Best wishes.

  23. #23
    Making a life for Tina! suchacutie's Avatar
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    Sierra, my wife is also completely heterosexual. I am completely willing to go along with that, and I bet a lot of girls here are in the same situation. My wife gets her husband when she wants him, even if it's only to sit and talk for a while.

    I can only suggest that you help your wife to research the details that you have told her, and let her find for herself that your sexual preference is separate from your sexual identity.

    The biblical reference has been discussed to death both on this forum and many others. There's plenty of info to explain that the reference should not be taken out of context!

    Lastly, unless she owns your house, no one can throw you out. You have rights if it comes to that. I hope it doesn't.

    Our best, and our hope that your wife starts believing you about your own choices.

  24. #24
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sierra_g View Post
    She has always known I like her to be the dominant one in our relationship, and I am a gynosupremist.
    I had to look it up: Gynosupremacy: female led relationships.

    What are you after, specifically? Are you wanting your wife to be the Dominant with you as a subordinate? You may well be subordinate by nature, but you cannot demand that your wife fulfill a role as a dominant if it is not HER nature to dominate. The two of you may well be incompatible. I'm guessing this is what your wife is trying to tell you, and this has nothing to do with the crossdressing.

    Or, do you see yourself as the gynosupremacist (the female who leads the relationship), as you said?

    I don't know what the dynamics are between you and your wife, but if so far you've had a traditional relationship, then I'm guessing your wife looks to you to lead in some areas, while she leads in others for example childcare. If you see yourself as the gynosupremacist, then you can just carry on leading in the areas you've led already in a traditional way. Then you can simply concentrate on expressing your femininity at a time and pace that is agreeable to both you and your wife.

    In other words, expressing femininity does not need to be tied to any concept of Dominant/submissive. This is a fetishistic approach that not all crossdressers engage in.

    EDIT
    If you need help separating the dominant/submissive mindset from the notion of expressing your inner femininity (which might be more palatable to your wife), you can start another thread asking other CDers to share their experiences.

    Also, once you do manage to separate the two, you can ask your wife to join the forum so she can learn more about the CDing, what it is and what it isn't. Most CDers are heterosexual. If your wife joins here and makes friends among the community, she'll soon see this for herself, if this is one of her larger concerns.
    Last edited by ReineD; 04-23-2012 at 09:15 PM.
    Reine

  25. #25
    Audrey Michelle's SO
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    Quote Originally Posted by busker View Post
    my thoughts would be focused on your children who , it would seem, are less than 4 years old. If you leave, you leave them in a dire position, children without 2 parents do less well than children with 2 parents.
    I disagree to a certain extent on this. Yes, it is best for the children to be with their biological parents. However, they are in their early 30's and the possibility of them remarrying is high. I had an abusive 1st husband, and my 2 kids are much better with their CDing step dad than they ever were with their biological father. I am speaking from a female point of view and from experience. If we, as mothers, feel that the marriage is destined for failure and there is talk of separation we would rather it happen when the children are still young and will not have the memory of the divorce. Then the children go through life used to the fact that their parents aren't together and grow up perfectly fine.

    I am not saying that this is what Sierra's wife, or Sierra, is feeling. I am just making a general statement that I have heard MANY women voice this opinion on.
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