Wife's ultimatum

[sierra_g]

Hello all. I am new to the boards. I am kinda new to the scene as well.

I am 33, and don't have much of a wardrobe. I am kinda metro, but enjoy women's clothing. My wife and I have been married for 4 years and we have a couple girls.

I opened up to my wife about my enjoyment of cross dressing and how I have worn a few articles of clothing through my years, and even some of her clothes when she wasn't around. She has always known I like her to be the dominant one in our relationship, and I am a gynosupremist.

My wife has tried to accept it into our lives, and has even gone out and bought me panties, done my makeup, etc. She cannot get used to it. She has given me an ultimatum. Stop it all or get out.

I would really enjoy some help talking this through. I am not really certain what to do in this situation. I love my wife and kids, but I don't know if I want to (or can) give up my female self.

Thank you for the help and advice!

[kimdl93]

I think for the moment, the best thing to do is ask for cooling off period. Let her know that you're willing to compromise, but can't promise to give up your feminine side completely and forever. That's not something you can't deliver. But you can give her a break from the gynosupremacy thing and strive become an equal partner in your relationship. The more you put into the relationship, the more you get back.

[sierra_g]

I have invited her to join forums with me on things like this before, and has always told me she doesn't care for one sided arguments and everyone on the forum will be automatically on my side. It isn't usually the case at all. I am normally a very selfish person. I've tried to let that go best I can.

Divorce, if it happens, is best when the children are very young. If we are headed down that road, it is best now instead of later. I just don't ever want it.

For the Gynosupremesy, I believe that women are better than men at a lot of important things, such as thinking, multi tasking, etc. We tried a wife led relationship. She wasn't comfortable with it, so we are at 50/50, but if there is a decision we are both on the fence about, she gets final decision. It works for us.

Right now, we are living with her mom. If my wife tells her mom about the CD, I will be out immediately, no questions asked. Wife can come with or go, but she would stay. Just to be safe, I always know of a place I could live, but getting the deposit and rent is the tough part. All my money goes to bills and kids.

[RADER]

My first wife divorced me when my two kids where young, 3 and 5.
I had it in the divorce degree that if she blabbed all over town about my dressing,
She would have to support the kids herself. The judge went along with it to a point,
That she was never tell the kids why we divorced. My Former wife was a real busy body,
And a rummer spreader, I did not want my reputation to get trashed over her.
Something to think about if you have to go down that road.
Rader

[ReineD]

I have invited her to join forums with me on things like this before, and has always told me she doesn't care for one sided arguments and everyone on the forum will be automatically on my side.

Well, that's not true. Please let her know that many of the wives who join here have a hard time with some or all aspects of the CDing. They're here to learn about what it means and how it fits into their relationships. They're not here to be "talked into" accepting anything. It is up to each wife, once she has learned more about this, to decide whether she can live with it or not, or determine what compromises can be made.

We do have a support section for GGs only. Your wife can read more about the FAB forum from our Index page, if she clicks on the "Announcements" link next to the FAB section.

This very thread is in a section that is viewable by the public, so you should just show her my post. If you're reading this, Mrs. Sierra_g, I promise you that no one here will try to convince you of anything. We'll just answer your questions.

[Di]

I have invited her to join forums with me on things like this before, and has always told me she doesn't care for one sided arguments and everyone on the forum will be automatically on my side. It isn't usually the case at all. I am normally a very selfish person. I've tried to let that go best I can.

Divorce, if it happens, is best when the children are very young. If we are headed down that road, it is best now instead of later. I just don't ever want it.

For the Gynosupremesy, I believe that women are better than men at a lot of important things, such as thinking, multi tasking, etc. We tried a wife led relationship. She wasn't comfortable with it, so we are at 50/50, but if there is a decision we are both on the fence about, she gets final decision. It works for us.

Right now, we are living with her mom. If my wife tells her mom about the CD, I will be out immediately, no questions asked. Wife can come with or go, but she would stay. Just to be safe, I always know of a place I could live, but getting the deposit and rent is the tough part. All my money goes to bills and kids.

Just to know here in the GG section not one sided.....we support the GG...her feelings and answer questions with personal things from out personal life.
End up realizing it is part of you...you are not gay. Basically we support them but they also get the full picture.

It might just be for right now the last thing she wants to deal with if there are other stresses. ( like living with mum, money and whatever else)

So if it gets to a point where she needs to vent ( not out you to her mom& having someone to get her thoughts and fears out) you can tell her about us.

[sierra_g]

Just to know here in the GG section not one sided.....we support the GG...her feelings and answer questions with personal things from out personal life.
End up realizing it is part of you...you are not gay. Basically we support them but they also get the full picture.

It might just be for right now the last thing she wants to deal with if there are other stresses. ( like living with mum, money and whatever else)

So if it gets to a point where she needs to vent ( not out you to her mom& having someone to get her thoughts and fears out) you can tell her about us.

My SO GG made an account (Mrs. G), and when she is ready, she wants to post. I am hoping it will be soon, but I am giving her whatever time she needs. If this thread happens to hit the third page, or the fifth page, it will still be resurrected so she can reply to it.

I haven't been posting on our current situation lately because I want to wait for her side to be told by her. Also because her real mom was in town for a few days. ♥

[WifeofWrenchette]

Welcome to Mrs. G. I hope you two can work things out and you both can get the help you need with counseling. You sound like you are in a very stressful situation with two small kids, money, and living with her mom. The last thing either of you needs is more stress.

[Leslie Mary S]

This is a tough situation. There is no absolute solution.

The real question is which is more important your family or your femininity sanity.

Some of us have gone totally in the "closet" to the point where we have hidden containers of our feminine things. And then we take occasional trips where we can dress-out in the hotel.

But great care must be taken to not get caught or you could end up as a single again.

My total coming out started with the unfortunate death of my wife of 36 years.
I wish I could give you a better answer.

Good luck in your quest.

[Sandra]

How long has she known? Have you been pushing things to much?

I think you need to sit down and have a very serious chat with your SO. She needs to understand that this is something that in most cases cannot be given up, it is a part of who you are.

Try and suggest some compromise and see how that goes.

[Rebecca Star]

How long has she known? Have you been pushing things to much?

I find the later can be the catalyst to all sorts of pent up frustrations being aired.
It's a bit like being chewed out over a glass being left on the bench...

The ladies here and gg's are really clued up and I'm sure as they've done so far will offer you some grade A+ advice.

Personally, while I didn't push the envelope hard, it took my SO ages to even feel kinda ok with my CDing. Even today almost 7 years later, she still has her moments.
Communication is the key here. If you can be sympathetic to your wife's needs and then both work on a fair comprimise, maybe thing will work out fine.

[KarenCDFL]

I really feel for the people here who have spouses/SO's/GF/BF etc. who cannot or won't at least give a little bit in the dressing direction.

The few people who know about me often tell me how lucky I am because my wife is 100 percent supportive. I did tell her way before we married so it gave both of us an out.

Posts like this really makes me think if marriage vows are really worth the lips they come out of.

If any of us got sick or got a disfiguring disease, our wives should still want to support us without question. Or would they say oops, diabetes or a heart attack and I am out of here.

So ask this question to ask her, "Would you rather I have Terminal Cancer or wear a Dress. Your Choice. If Cancer is too strong to think about then how about Leprosy? Would that be a deal breaker?

So what is the big deal about letting you have some enjoyment with something that makes all of us in the "Dressing Way" feel so good or at least get the enjoyment out of the deed.

Isn't a spouse supposed to do everything they can to help their partner have a good life? Our wives expect it from all of us. Its OK for us to buy them pretty things and expensive jewelry! But none for ourselves!

And what about that wonderful word LOVE? Is there only love when the wife gets her own way?

Even Barney the Dinosaur sings You love me, I love you and what ever makes us feel good should be OK. That sure sounds simple.

I have read so many posts here about Cross Dressers who have a seemingly perfect marriage except for that UGH dressing thing.

I find all of this completely unfair.

Just so its known, my wife of 17 years and I did go through a lot of therapy before and after we married to get to the point we are now. And we still do. The marriage is not perfect, nor will it ever be but my dressing is not ever part of any of our issues. When things get very stressed on my part she tells me that I am not dressing enough.

I know I am generalizing and rambling here but this should be all simple stuff and not a reason to give an ultimatum and possibly end a marriage.

BTW, I am strictly talking about Cross Dressing not TG issues.

[Nigella]

Karen, you hit the nail on the head with this

I know I am generalizing and rambling here

Your post above does nothing to help either the OP, or other people in the same type of situation. If you have found an answer to help with this situation, by all means post it, but to berate an SO etc, because they find accepting this lifestyle difficult just drives them further away from a solution. One point to remember is that we generally only get the TGs side of the issue, very rarely do we get to hear the other side.

I also believe that the response given is very much tainted by our own situation, yours is a good one, therefore you cannot understand the non accepting situation. The one thing to remember about what you have posted, just as you have said should the SO not do this that or the other to help the relationship, the same can be said for the TG.

Relationships are like a tango, it takes two to work in harmony to get it right,

[RADER]

Yes; As others have stated, You got to take it real slow, And you have to sit down and talk with her.
Maybe set some limits on when and how much you dress, but instill to her it is something that makes you
who you are. And adds a dimension to you that many other men do not have; A Feminine look into your
marriage, and a way to anticipate your needs.
Rader

[Clueless]

I'm not sure from your posts, but did you let her know about your Cding before or after the marriage? If not, that is a big honesty/deception issue, not to be taken lightly. Just because she was accepting or even participating at first, does not erase your lying to her before marriage. She has every right to be very very upset about that. It make take a long time for that to come out. Other Cders would do well to learn that before getting serious with someone. It's only fair.

Did her opposition to your Cding start when you moved into her parents place? If so, that can be a simple & understandable reaction on her part: don't doo doo in your domicile. If I were in your shoes & in that situation, I would not do any Cding or any other "odd" activities & for sure not posses/hide any related items there. To me it would be awkward at best, even if her parents knew about it & approved. It sounds like they would not approve at all. Common courtesy & a healthy survival instinct would make that a no Cding or other alternative activities zone. I'm sure there is enough stress in the household, just with the extra people there. Please don't add to it, work on getting a place for your family.

Has she tried other ways to get you to stop Cding, before the cease & desist order? Is she a good communicator? Are you a good listener? Maybe the real issue is that she (like most females) is attracted to & wants a dominate male. It may have taken her awhile to figure that out for herself. I can understand her fears & insecurities about the closet homosexuality issue. If I were in her shoes, it would be a major trust issue & a very big deal. Were you 100% honest & open about your experiences? When did you tell her? Do you know for sure that you are 100% straight? Are you sure that you don't want to go further than just Cding? I know those are some tough questions, but look at it from her viewpoint.

Deception & lying can cause hidden irreparable damage. Her needs, wants & tolerances can change. IMO, the best you can do now is be 100% honest with yourself & her. You can buy her some books, ask her to talk to professionals & even post on forums. In the end though, she has to decide what she believes about Cding, right or wrong. If she decides it's best for her & her kids to not have Cding in their lives, that's her right. Do what is best for your kids. Put their needs before yours. You may have to make some very tough choices. I'm sorry that you are in a bad position. Good Luck

[Brenda79135]

I am sorry to read about your situation. Having to live with the in-laws are always a stressful time. The biggest problem with it is that you are always compared to her dad and what he has accomplished. In most cricumstances, once you get married the new relationship is supposed to stand on its own and should not need the help of the in-laws or parents. Yes, GGs may be better at thinking and multitacking, this does not mean they can lead. She maybe afraid of failure having the responsibility put on her. Leading a family is hard enough, but to put in the mixture her parents telling her what to do and how to do it just puts to much stress on her and yourself. The best ultimatum both of you can impose on the family is to get your own place any from the in-laws. This will allow the decisions made for the family to affect only the family and not be questioned by the in-laws. When my wife and I were first married, my mother-in-law was calling all the time giving advice to my wife. Things started to fall apart in our marriage rapidly. We made the decision to move to Germany for my job. With the cost of overseas phone calls at the time. The calling dropped off. This allowed my wife to get her beating and how to live in a relationship without her mother always injecting 'good advice' when not asked for. The farther away from any parents the better. Once this is done both of you will become dependent on each other instead of the parents.

[KarenCDFL]

I have been in a non-accepting situation with my first wife who was also told well before we married and she still made the decision to go ahead with it.

That was until some issues came up which had nothing to do with my dressing but used the subject anyway to hurt me and make my life a literal hell for five years until we divorced.

So I stand by all of my comments and I still believe that most marriages are very one-sided with the wife having the upper hand.

[Lorileah]

Thank you for reminding me just how lucky I have been in life. Maybe I have a different view of marriage but I don't think a "my way or the highway" is what a marriage is about.

I have to agree that you need to back off. Knowing that you will never back off totally your whole life, sometimes it is just easier to retreat and lick your wounds, before you make a big charge.

My feeling is that usually there is a lot more to the story. But the issue of clothing seems pretty petty for an ultimatum. Look around. Is there some reason she suddenly has become so adamant? Are you abusing the privilege? Neglecting something? Pushing too hard? Not to place the whole blame on you, or any of it, but something has here concerned. It usually means, at least in my experience, that the marriage in general has some issues. Maybe it is a transient thing. She may be over stressed and you are a convenient target. But I would be looking deeper into this. Has she given you a reason? Other than she doesn't like it...which in a marriage is not a reason to break up. we all have peeves about our SO's that we don't care for much. Knuckle cracking, toothpaste cap off, doesn't like sushi, underwear on the floor, someone else's underwear on the floor. But when ever the ultimatum is all or nothing it is more than this. Money? Drugs? (I hate to add this) Sex? Not helping around the house? Not showing attention?

Why do I think this is petty? I don't know anyone who would divorce because someone would not wear a dress, or a suit and tie OR would only wear t-shirts and jeans. If this is what the marriage is about, the clothing, well then it isn't really a marriage.

Step back, see if there is a bigger picture. Mostly talk. Talk about anything to start but make it just you two. Then maybe you can get the real reason.

[Katie01]

I think Lorileah is very perceptive. Sounds like other things may be in play here. I also think it says a lot about your wife that she bought clothes and helped with makeup early on. To me that was a very loving thing to do, especially if she had to overcome biases to participate. Good advise to take it slow and think through the consequences together if possible.

[Katesback]

As was said before it is her right to accept this that or the other thing. She has very clearly stated she will not accept it.

So you make a decision stop or dont or hide it like many do. Problem is she will find out sooner or later and you will resent her all the while. As a matter of fact you will resent her if you choose to stop.

Having a pretty good insight into CDs I will say you will admit to stopping to her and do it behind her back when ya can. That seems to be the modus oparandi for many CDs.

Katie

[NicoleScott]

Some people have to learn this the hard way: "Never give someone a choice you don't want him/her to take." Is she serious? Can you call her bluff?

- or -

You may be a good candidate for Don't Ask Don't Tell. She knows you dress but doesn't want to see or hear about it.

[sierra_g]

Update:
Last night we fought. It was a very silent hurtful fight. Eventually, I asked her if what she wanted was for me to leave. She said that I ask the same question and always get the same answer. Yes, her answer is always the same, but it is a question. "Do you want to move out?" No results. I pushed harder for the first time. I told her that if it is what she wants, I would go. I wouldn't even try for custody, unless she decided to make our situation public.
After about 5 minutes of silence, something changed in the room. I don't know if it was the reality, or the thought that she wasn't controlling the situation for a while, but something changed. She decided that in the Bible, it says that the only reason for divorce is adultry and she wasn't going to cheat on me so she would try to get used to it, but if I was parading around in front of the kids, she would break that even. I don't think the fight is over, but for now it is. I am not planning to start wearing dresses everyday, but maybe I can finally shave my legs and pits, maybe don a pair of cute jeans. I don't know. Either way, it is a long strange trip.

[NicoleScott]

What? She's going to stay in the marriage, not at all happy about your crossdressing, but pretty much resigned to it, and your response is to push the femininity envelope farther?

[Sandra]

I don't think the fight is over, but for now it is. I am not planning to start wearing dresses everyday, but maybe I can finally shave my legs and pits, maybe don a pair of cute jeans. I don't know. Either way, it is a long strange trip.

You do any of this and things will just go downhill, doing this to an SO who is having difficulties is just rubbing her nose in it.

EDIt

Just read the rest of your responses.

You need to give it more time and tell her that, a week is no way enough time to try and sort things out.

[Dawn cd]

Unilateral ultimatums don't really belong in healthy and mutually supportive relationships, but Sierra you created the situation by appointing your wife Supremo. Now it's time for both of you to back out of the corner you've put yourselves in. You both need to stop playing games and face up to real life—for the sake of your daughters if nothing else. You, Sierra, need to stop playing the subordinate and claim your place as an equal in this marriage, and your SO needs to withdraw her ultimatum and work things out in a dialogue. If you can't do it between the two of you, find a therapist who can help you work through it.