Dressing like a s**t - why?

[Silentpartner GG SO]

Rather than sidetrack the other thread, I thought I'd start a new one and ask this question because it really puzzles me and slightly disturbs me.

I welcome comments from everyone!

Some MTF CD'ers have expressed the desire to dress sl***y and to look sexy, even to be alluring and desirable to straight guys.

What I cannot understand is why a heterosexual male would want to dress in such a way and to want to attract or sexually arouse another guy.

From a GG point of view, s****y dressing is not in the least bit sexy, its vulgar and unattractive and for a man to dress this way seems to me to be disrespectful of women generally.

My understanding of CD'ing is that you feel the need to express your feminine side - so what are you saying by dressing like a *****? that your feminine side is a s**t???

I can, to an extent, understand wanting to dress and be pretty, and feminine and look nice but the whole streetwalker but I dont get at all.

[Polly Sharp]

Several possibilities. One is that they want to attract male attention for sexual reasons, another is that they may feel 'abused' to look like that. No doubt there are more reasons. To many it's a fantasy thing.

The one I go for is my own reason for dressing that way at times, 'cos I want to! There are times when I've seen someone out there, dressed in fishnets or whatever. I want to dress in a similar way, to 'be them' in my mind for a few moments.

When I first started buying 'mens magazines' they were pretty tame, showing women stripping down to underwear. I would try to find clothing that was similar to how they had started the strip, and work my way down from there. back then I thought it was a sexual thing for me, but it wasn't. I'll not go into details apart from saying that I just didn't feel like doing things like that when dressed. The inner thrill from looking like the woman in the photo, or in the street, was what I sought.

Not all GG's think that dressing s****y is vulgar and unattractive either, I go out sometimes and wonder why some of the girls drinking in town don't get pneumonia!

[Babeba]

To add to this, I want to say that there is a huge HUGE difference between being ****ty and sexy... And a lot of it has to do with attitude. Sl•ttiness implies a lack of control over ones' own sexuality, that a sl•t is there to be used and that's that... They are a sex object rather than a sensual partner.

I do not think that sex or being sexy is wrong, it can be very self affirming to be powerful and sexiness can give that confidence. But being sl•utty crosses that line and takes the power away from the person perceived as a ****. It gives permission for others to use that person... Hence the idea that if a woman is dressed provocatively and is raped or assaulted, she was 'asking for it.' I think that crossdressers who deliberately seek to evoke sl•ttiness (rather than being sexy, confident and strong) are showing a very anti-woman attitude.

[Julia_in_Pa]

I hope it is alright for me to reply given that you did not include my classification.

In my opinion it is a males sexual drive combined with his cross dressing desires that equal how he dresses.

If he is sexually turned on by what he sees in the mirror when he is dressed he therefore fulfills his need for sexual arousal, brings himself to climax and the cycle completes itself until the next time.
This is typical sexual fetish behavior and what you read concerning ****ty dressing is actually part of his pathology.

I don't agree with it, I don't like it and I fully agree that it's disrespectful of women.
With that said the reason behind it is as ancient as human sexual behavior is because that's exactly what it is.

Sexual fetishism is a compulsion not unlike Trichotillomania which is the compulsion of ripping out one's own hair.
It has to be handled as another male need for sexual arousal and nothing more.

Sadly men have been sexualizing women for eons and it is only recently in the grand scheme of all of this that women have gained notably more respect and station in society.
Attempt to place this in the context of typical male behavior that it is.
That isn't an excuse for the behavior but merely and explanation of it.


Julia

[Babeba]

Several possibilities. One is that they want to attract male attention for sexual reasons, another is that they may feel 'abused' to look like that.

Not all GG's think that dressing s****y is vulgar and unattractive either, I go out sometimes and wonder why some of the girls drinking in town don't get pneumonia!

I have totally seen those British girls for their nights out, I've even been there and done that. The thing is, either they don't think they are being ****ty, they think they're sexy instead, or they have so bought into the idea they cannot control their own sexual power that they must be ****s to get attention. Either case has a very different reason for dressing provocatively.

I once remember being in the line of a bathroom at a club in Canada, and hearing a girl in there gather her friends up by shouting, 'let's go, ****s!' I cannot tell you how much it bothered me. It totally blew my mind to realize a woman would actually call a friend that. I cannot think of another phrase that is more offensive other than a more vulgar way to get the idea of being a **** across.

[Kate Simmons]

Offhand I's say it's a mixture of a person's perceived view of the feminine ideal, fantasy and role playing. I can do all of the above personally but it usually doesn't win friends and influence people. I,personally, can fulfill either the male or female role with little problem. The roles I'm talking about are the so called "norm" with regard to societal conditioning, however. Sometimes the deviation of those roles comes from the desire to act independently and contrary to what really is so. Over the years I have realized that if you really want to be like a woman, you need to open up your feelings and be kind, compassionate. caring and loving and have real family values. As a man I have realized that I am looked up to to provide leadership, security and caring for others in a way that makes family and people in general feel comfortable and have confidence in me and my decisions.

As a CD I fancy myself more as an adventurer and tomboy, albeit one who wants to look pretty. I guess in that respect I am a male feminist but that is my particular fantasy. Others portray women in a different way, sometimes one that is considered by society to be degrading but that is really the individual who creates, acts on and maintains that image, not the CD or TG population at large.

We honestly make a name for ourselves (even as a CD) by who we are and what we do. I do know that for the most part the members here are caring and loving people or I wouldn't have stuck around for 6 years. Sometimes we can go a little "crazy" being carried away with things just like anyone, however and that is real life.

[Silentpartner GG SO]

Julia of course your post is very welcome, sorry I didnt mean to exclude anyone - and your explanations are very interesting and make a lot of sense. I have amend the OP to include all -

Scarlet why would a hetro guy want to dress like that, go out and advertise himself/herself as sexually available? this would indicate to me that he was far from hetro

Polly, I appreciate that there are girls that go out on a weekend and wear so little clothing as to make themselves very s****y looking indeed - I guess the CD's who want to emulate them need some role models!

I started this reply and the site broke for me - so I'm trying again!

[Janet77]

Interesting question. I think Julia is probably right, it's mainly a fetish thing. I probably fall into that category. As a relative newbie to this forum, it has been interesting to me to observe the interaction between different types of members. There seem to be quite a few members who consider whatever their type of cross-dressing is as more "legitimate" than other members kind. GG's have always judged other women's dress and actions and labeled the ones they disapprove of as tarts, harlots, whatever. I think this is silly....Should all of us wear Mom jeans or Hillary Clinton pantsuits? Is it really necessary for us to judge and label each other?

[Silentpartner GG SO]

Janet I dont think that anyone's CD'ing style is more or less valid or legitimate but I think there are lines which shouldn't be crossed when going out in public. How people want to dress in their own homes is absolutely up to them, it is nobody's business but their own. However I do think that certain standards of dress should be maintained when going out in public for several reasons - for personal safety so you're not giving the wrong signals to other people - and so as not to give offence to other people in terms of indecency - and by that I dont mean CD'ing, I mean showing boobs, skirt up to the backside etc. These standards of decency I feel should apply to everyone - they are not gender specific.

I personally find it quite offensive to be 'treated' to an immense expanse of what we brits call "builder's bum cleavage" or a guy wearing shorts and no underwear, so his 'bits' dangle out of the leg of his shorts. Similarly I dont particularly want to see GG's bum cleavage either, particularly ghastly when there is a bright red thong firmly wedged in that cleavage! horrible!

[Janet77]

Janet I dont think that anyone's CD'ing style is more or less valid or legitimate but I think there are lines which shouldn't be crossed when going out in public. How people want to dress in their own homes is absolutely up to them, it is nobody's business but their own. However I do think that certain standards of dress should be maintained when going out in public for several reasons - for personal safety so you're not giving the wrong signals to other people - and so as not to give offence to other people in terms of indecency - and by that I dont mean CD'ing, I mean showing boobs, skirt up to the backside etc. These standards of decency I feel should apply to everyone - they are not gender specific.

I personally find it quite offensive to be 'treated' to an immense expanse of what we brits call "builder's bum cleavage" or a guy wearing shorts and no underwear, so his 'bits' dangle out of the leg of his shorts. Similarly I dont particularly want to see GG's bum cleavage either, particularly ghastly when there is a bright red thong firmly wedged in that cleavage! horrible!

Agree 100% about the dressing in public part. I rarely (well, never) go in public dressed, but if I ever do, it will definitely not be in something a Solid Gold dancer or a French maid would wear!

[Babeba]

Interesting question. I think Julia is probably right, it's mainly a fetish thing. I probably fall into that category. As a relative newbie to this forum, it has been interesting to me to observe the interaction between different types of members. There seem to be quite a few members who consider whatever their type of cross-dressing is as more "legitimate" than other members kind. GG's have always judged other women's dress and actions and labeled the ones they disapprove of as tarts, harlots, whatever. I think this is silly....Should all of us wear Mom jeans or Hillary Clinton pantsuits? Is it really necessary for us to judge and label each other?

I don't think you can put sl•t shame all at the door of GGs. If certain modes of dress were not taken as sl•tty by some men, would some women feel as though they were threatened by how other women dressed?

If there is a divide between **** and not **** clothes/actions, where is it? Are you suggesting that someone who wears pantsuits is obviously not a ****? Then who is a ****? How can that be defined in look? Why aim for **** (and the cultural baggage of sexual promiscuity and dirt that comes with it) and not somewhere in between 'Hilary Clinton Mom jeans' and ****? (and why is it do many people attack Hilary Clinton, one of the most powerful PERSONS in the world, and say she is not feminine? What is so threatening about her being a woman?)

And the big one I can't comprehend: if you respect the right of everyone to decide on their own actions and behaviours, why on earth would you aim to look (or be) ****ty?

Edit to add: I agree with you about it not being right to give someone else a label, Janet! And I don't mean to pick on you by quoting you.

I just don't understand how a GM who respects women can actively seek out being a ****- a second class citizen with nonself determination of her own sexuality. It doesn't seem like a healthy attitude.

[busker]

Janet I dont think that anyone's CD'ing style is more or less valid or legitimate but I think there are lines which shouldn't be crossed when going out in public. How people want to dress in their own homes is absolutely up to them, it is nobody's business but their own. However I do think that certain standards of dress should be maintained when going out in public for several reasons - for personal safety so you're not giving the wrong signals to other people - and so as not to give offence to other people in terms of indecency - and by that I dont mean CD'ing, I mean showing boobs, skirt up to the backside etc. These standards of decency I feel should apply to everyone - they are not gender specific.

I personally find it quite offensive to be 'treated' to an immense expanse of what we brits call "builder's bum cleavage" or a guy wearing shorts and no underwear, so his 'bits' dangle out of the leg of his shorts. Similarly I dont particularly want to see GG's bum cleavage either, particularly ghastly when there is a bright red thong firmly wedged in that cleavage! horrible!

we call it "plumbers butt here. Happily, I haven't seen any guys with his "junk" hanging out of his shorts. That would be rude.

[darla_g]

I find this an interesting thread. I tend to agree with the original premise of the thread.

I think the thing is that a lot of CDs especially when they are starting out tend to select clothes with their idea of a woman that they would like to be with. So secretly I think there is a tendency to want clothing from this ideal as well.

[Janet77]

Lots of people like to call attention to themselves in unflattering ways: The guy that blasts foul-mouthed rap music from his car stereo, the teenager with the T-Shirt with the offensive slogan, the morbidly-obese woman in skintight spandex pants. Dressing like a sl** is just another way to say "look at me!" I think that there are places where sexy clothes are appropriate, and places where the aren't (nightclub vs the office). In the context of this forum, I like seeing the way different girls dress.
And Babeba, for the record, no disrespect meant to Hillary, I was just describing her style of dress (conservative). I have never voted for a Republican in my life.

[Babeba]

I find this an interesting thread. I tend to agree with the original premise of the thread.

I think the thing is that a lot of CDs especially when they are starting out tend to select clothes with their idea of a woman that they would like to be with. So secretly I think there is a tendency to want clothing from this ideal as well.

I agree with this. And I think that we need to work on our society if it is one that idealizes a role of women based on objects of sexuality with little real say over what acts they perform because it is assumed they will do it anyway.

[ReineD]

Several things.

Not every male notices the finer facets of sex appeal and fashion. A good friend of mine (a GG) once told me, "If you want to get a guy's attention, make it big and make it red". I believe that CDers who dress this way, do so because this is what they find sexually appealing in women. They want to be sexually appealing, but not necessarily to men.

At first I was also confused, wondering why a straight CDer would dress in the same manner as a GG who wants to attract men. A hetero CDer is not attracted to the man so much as he is attracted to himself appearing as his definition of a sexy female. It is the thought that he is alluring when dressed that excites him, not an attraction to a particular man. I'm sure you've read threads in this forum where some of the hetero CDers take it one step further and place an image of a faceless man in their fantasies, as an accessory to the fantasy. Yet when the hetero CDers have actually gone out and tried having sex with men, they report feelings of disappointment (generally speaking), which is a confirmation it is about the appeal of the self as a sexy female rather than an attraction to men.

There are also CDers who wear risqué outfits without looking like sl*ts. I know this is highly subjective, but I've seen tasteful boudoir shots, where the CDers use the clothes to feel as feminine as they can. We can't assume that all such outfits produce the same amount of sexual release.

Babs ... I've never seen so many stars in your post.

EDIT
I repeated myself quite a bit in this post, sorry. I was writing it in segments.

[AKKaren]

[SIZE="3"][SIZE="3"]Just my observations...In a lifetime of observing women both near and far I have seen it all. Most women I have met don't do the sl%t look...plain and simple. Most like who they are and the feminine image they project. If a CD has this desire to project the sl%tty side, well, it's just another way we are seen in a bad light as a community. There's my 2.5 cents worth![/SIZE][/SIZE]

[KellyJameson]

Power is extremely addictive and it's effects are almost identical to the effects of cocaine.

Beauty is a form of power and feminine beauty is the apex of this power and it is rare to go out in public and not find it on display somewhere.

Feminine beauty for some inflames their desire adding to it's power and for many they will become enslaved by the one who possesses it, turning their personal power over to another and placing themselves at risk for exploitation.

Dressing s****y is an abuse of this power because you are using a persons sexuality against them to experience the high of your own addiction to the powers you possess.

I have abused this power creating an addiction to it that I fortunately was able to escape from, it is in my opinion extremely dangerous because the more you feed it the more it demands.

The more you feel inadequate as a person in relation to others the greater the likelihood you will become enslaved to it just as you have enslaved others with it. Power is always a double edged sword that cuts both ways turning master into slave.

[Badtranny]

Quite simple really. They dress in a way that pleases themselves. As soon as they see themselves in the mirror with the short skirt and stilettos, they pitch a tent in the skirt and they're back in sweat pants 15 minutes later.

[Pythos]

I think we are perhaps looking a tad bit too deep. I personally do not dress for the purpose of attracting men. I dress A ) for myself, and B ) to attract women that appreciate more feminine styles. I will wear mini skirts....because I look good in them. I get compliments in them, and so I wear them. There may have been a bit of fetish aspect to in the early stages, but not so much anymore.

I find mini skirts fun to wear, they are daring to say the least. I don't know why this is something that only women can enjoy. It is silly.

Now as far as dressing sl*&&y. I think that word has as many definitions and perimeters as there are people. For one an outfit can be S*&%&y, while to another it is just sexy, or even (gasp) attractive in a NON sexual manner.

People that dress in a manner that is disrespectful to women however, I don't think help women, or the idea of Cding becoming mainstream.

[Claire_tv_uk]

i like to dress quite trashy, and i find it quite insulting that someone thinks that i'm disrespecting women by doing so.

the problem lies with you if you think that a woman (or man in my case) dressed up like that impacts badly on you, you're implying that the public see a **** and think all women are like that,

i treat everyone as an individual, if i see a woman dressed up as a **** , i don't immediately assume all women are ****s.

the only person you represent is yourself,

for example if you see a drunken man staggering around town at 3am, being sick and shouting abuse at people, does that reflect badly on all men?

of course it doesn't.

[Babeba]

Reine, I'm assuming there is a filter on a certain word I don't normally use...

I think the thing that set me off on some big rants today wasn't just the idea of risqué outfits, it was the idea of cross dressers deliberately dressing up and embracing their inner sl•ts. Not some accidental slatternliness as you suggest, Pythos, or daring dress misinterpreted in the eye of the beholder, but full-on 'sometimes I am a good girl and sometimes I am a ****.' I am ranting against that idea of dressing/being a **** who is by the very definition of the word, a powerless sex object. Humph. Some ideal for women... also if a cross dresser is trying to actualize a fantasy woman she would like to be with, what sort of self esteem problem do you have by setting those sights on such a depressing target?

Edit to add: have any of you ever heard of **** walks? They're a type of social protest that tries to fight against the link between clothing and assumptions about what someone is trying to do by wearing those clothes. I think it is very positive to break the link between clothes and sexual availability and thereby decrease the culture of oppression that means a woman who is assaulted is not taken seriously if she dressed too 'provocatively.'

[janet54]

I agree with Pythos. She hit that right on!!!

[Vickie_CDTV]

As others have said, some men dress that way in private for their own pleasure (think some are a bit too judgmental about that, males are naturally driven to have orgasms and using dressing in private to accomplish that isn't exactly the most horrendous thing in the world, by a long shot.) Once TVF male finds it turns him on, whether it is dressing up like a young tramp, a drag queen or Hillary Clinton, he will just naturally go back to it time and again to get is natural, biologically driven fix. It doesn't mean he is a pedophile, serial killer, wife beater or bad person in general.

As for why some who are heterosexual but want males to find them attractive, it might be a way of validating their skills are dressing. I don't dress for this purpose myself, but for some it might be a way to prove they are skilled at dressing up and creating an illusion (that is, they are skilled enough to not only pass around other males but can create such a pleasing illusion it is good enough to actually turn the males on.) Can think of it in terms of a golfer making par (passing), as opposed to going under par (passable and look good enough to turn males on.)

[girltoy]

noun
1. an immoral or dissolute woman; prostitute.
2. Obsolete . a dirty, slovenly woman.

I'm not entirely sure the term s*ut is appropriate? Provocative dress may be more appropriate, IMO. I think it's a combination of outfit, actions, and setting that would evoke the ideas of s***y. There are some little black dresses (LBDs) out there that are perfectly acceptable at a cocktail/dinner party or even the symphony that have a high hemline, plunging backs (and fronts). Yet, no one accuses the GG wearing them at said functions who is behaving in a refined manner of being a s**t. Take that same girl wearing the same dress, put her on the dance floor at a club with pounding music, give her a few strong drinks, see her grinding against someone else, and instantly she's being judged a s**t.

I frequent the goth/industrial/fetish clubs around SoCal and have seen some very provocative outfits on both men and women, and yet the term s**t never pops into my head, as the outfits I've seen are pretty normal for the setting. And, while the behavior may seem flirtatious at times, I've seen the same scantily clad women being fiercely loyal to their partner.

If a person is dressing in a manner that reveals a lot of skin in a setting where it is inappropriate, the bulk of society (men and women alike) affix labels, not necessarily taking the actions of that person into account. If a girl is walking to the store wearing short shorts and a halter top, she's displaying her body. Well, by the same token, so is a girl who's wearing a bikini on the beach as opposed to a 1 piece bathing suit. What makes one a s**t and the other one acceptable? Certain cuts and styles of clothing are designed to show off certain parts of the body. If a person has great looking legs, they want to display them, regardless of the motivation of them. Sometimes a girl wears a bikini because she wants to tan her body, not because she wants to try and hook a guy. Similarly, a male presenting as a female may want to show off their legs because they're proud of them, not necessarily because they want to land another male. Body builders wear muscle shirts because they're proud of the effort they've put into their bodies, it's hard to find sleeves that will fit around the muscles, they want to attract someone, etc.

As far as the CDing is concerned, yes, some of it is acting out on what is observed (or idealized) by the person dressing. Again, location and actions are called into play. Is the person dressed provocatively having dinner at Denny's, making eyes at everyone in the room? Or are they dressed in a pantsuit at a club, standing out against everyone dressed in a less conservative fashion?

Let's keep in mind that the term 's**t' is a derogatory term. Before we start mudslinging, take into account actions and location as well as attire.