Dressing like a s**t - why?

[Shananigans]

I wonder if it's a coincidence that we have seen the vaginas of B. Spears, Lindsey Hohands, and that one rich, blonde girl with the crazy eye...and, they are now just famous for being the subject of public ridicule...

I honestly really did like Britney back in the day...she used to be really good. (Don't judge me on that statement, I was like 12).

Anyway, our society has a fascination with watching train wrecks...and, that's what a lot of these celebs are basically. I think Spears really was having a hard time, and it makes me a little sad that being famous essentially ruined her life.

She did make a lot of mistakes though...but, what gets remembered is that she WAS famous, she was (at one time) beautiful, and she completely destroyed herself.

IMO, dressing skanky is the least of that girl's worries. She has never been much on the fashion radar. There was that outfit with the yellow snake, and that was kind of edgy. But, in general, I have seen her labia, and her wandering around in clothes too tight (she's a big girl), and some Uggs. Lol usually with a sucker in her mouth.

Is this sl*tty Britney? I dont like

Okay, but that one song...If You Seek Amy...okay, I liked that video. She was skanking it up a little..,and, it's a shame song of mine. But, I like it lol

[docrobbysherry]

I honestly don't know you from Adam. But, if you wish to pick that long post a$$ post apart where I was saying what I meant behind "clothes arent needed to feel feminine" and boil it down to one sentence to support your own views, that's fine too. Btw, I am a GG...I didn't much feel like you were actually really listening to me, but that's cool too.

While Shana's posts seem to describe why and what I do as Sherry to a T, I dislike the way she constantly uses the phrase, "feel feminine". While I often feel pretty, sexy, hot, etc. when dressed "sl---y" at home in private, I don't have a clue of what, "feeling fem", is like! Probably, anymore than u know what being what a man is like, Shana!

I strive to LOOK AS FEM AS POSSIBLE and that's quite enuff! And, the hotter and more fem I look, the more exciting the vision in the mirror becomes! Sherry is MY female fantasy. I'll take her out looking nice, but like your SO, Shana, her sexiest looks r left in my bedroom!

[whowhatwhen]

Why not start a general style/clothing thread to help newbies pick out more acceptable clothing and styles?
By acceptable I mean normal, everyday wear.

C'mon!
Pass down your wisdom

[Silentpartner GG SO]

Wow - this thread had really heated up since I last came on line - what a hornets nest I seem to have poked!

I'll try to remember everything I want to say but there's so many new posts I'm actually getting a bit lost myself

First if all, can I just say to Laura912 - looking at your avatar I certainly wouldnt think "tart" you look great -

Girltoy - please dont worry at all but me thinking you are being argumentative - I like a good discussion and at the end of the day, everyone is entitled to their own opinions - if we cant discuss things like adults we are lost really arent we.

Sometimes this is out of our hands (applicable to both men and women). I’ve read numerous posts on this forum wherein the poster has been flirted with while dressed in a moderate fashion. Would it be safe to say that you were not dressed like a ‘****’ or a ‘tart’ when your husband approached you initially and asked you for a first date? One’s attire does not dictate the behavior of others, it is an expression of one’s self. Unless the person comes out and states in no uncertain terms what their motivations are for dressing in a particular manner, a statement that they’re dressing to attract or sexually arouse someone is an inferred (and potentially erroneous) statement.

Yes, absolutely - there is always the potential to be flirted with or hit on - whatever you're wearing - and no, I wasnt dressed tarty when my husband first asked me for a date. lol - my point here is that in most cases, the type of "hit" a guy makes on a girl can depend a lot on what she is wearing and how she is behaving.
A girl dressed attractively, acting in an appropriate manner is much more likely to be approached for a date by a guy who is looking for a relationship because he likes the look of her, likes the way she is behaving, wouldnt feel embarrassed to take her out to dinner etc..

A girl dressed like a tart is more likely to be hit on by a guy who is looking for a quick screw, up against the wall around the back of the club etc. its highly unlikely he will ask her on a date, take her out to dinner or home to meet his mother.

Whilst in an ideal world it may be wrong to judge a person by their clothing but thats the way it is - and chances are, if they are dressing sl***y then they are acting the same way and are giving out the vibes that they are "up for it".

How is a normal guy supposed to read what a female's intentions are? they look for signals, albeit some are very subtle and subconscious, they are there - he reads them, acts on them - or not.

Your analagy of the "scruffy biker" situation is a perfect example - people, rightly or wrongly, look at the clothes and decide in their mind whether this or that person is someone the are comfortable about or not.

Yes, there’s the potential that a horny guy will attempt to pick up on a CD. There’s also the ability of said CD to politely turn the person down, leaving the scene (or contacting security/police if need be). There’s the responsibility of the CD to frequent a safe place while dressed. There’s the risk of getting their face kicked in. There’s also the potential to get your face kicked in while getting cash out of the ATM while dressed in drab

.

I'm not sure how sympathetic the cops would be in that situation - they are human too and could well see the s***y dressed CD as "asking for it" and being willfully provocative.
Yes you can get mugged at the ATM but would you take out your cash and start counting out the hundred dollar bills in full view of everyone, no you'd be fairly discreet and careful. It's all about appropriate actions in certain places.

Stating that it is disrespectful of women is your right, and I respect your opinion. I am curious, do you think that women who dress in a provocative fashion and behave in a flirtatious manner are also disrespectful of women? I just want to understand if this is a double standard

quick answer, Yes! they are being disrespectful of their own gender - but there is a difference between dressing provocatively and dressing like a s**t, and there's being flirtatious and then there's acting like "your up for it" - a fine line but one that I believe most GG's do comprehend.

my original statement

Absolutely I think there is an argument as to why a GG would go out looking like a tart but that's not the discussion we are having here.

I said this because we were discussing CD'ers on a CD forum but no, I dont have double standards, its just as shameful for a GG to dress and behave like a tart as it is a CD'er. I am a firm believer in what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

It has always annoyed me that a guy who sleeps around is "having a good time" whereas a female who has a few sexual partners is "an easy lay" but I digress.

Kim - yes your post makes very good sense, not rambling at all!

I'd like to say here that I dont really consider a maids outfit as tarty, it may fetish but not really tarty - I think we all know what tart looks like, its not the little black dress, its not the short skirt, its not the fishnet stockings, its not the high heels, its things like

skirts so short they show your undergarments
see-through blouses, with a black bra underneath
very short red pvc skirts
thigh length patent boots with 4 inch heels
over the top makeup with bright red lipstick and bright red fingernails

buts its not one item on its own, its the whole package - so please, if any of you have some of these garments, dont jump on me and beat me with a big stick because any of these garments can be worn in a non-tarty way.

I have worn the little black dress, fairly short with sheer black stockings, red nail polish and red lipstick and not felt in the least bit tarty -
I hope you all know what I'm meaning here.

And finally, phew, whilst I am sure nobody is deliberately trying to offend or be disrespectful of women, A CD'er going out dressed like a tart and acting like a tart is, IMO perpetuating the idea that women are sex objects to be used and leered at. This is what I find offensive. We GG's have fought long and hard to dispel this image and be seen as people with intelligence, values and feelings and it disappoints me that any CD'ers, as a much persecuted minority group seeking acceptance by the public, would undermine us and our status in society.

Sorry for the diatribe, I'm knackered now after all that - think I need a drink........

[Eryn]

While I'm not big on the s**t look, I do have my moments. I think a lot of it comes from the fact that I'm exploring the same things as some GGs do from ages 13-25, but all out of order and with a 50ish body. I know that a particular look is all wrong for me, but I still have to try it to have the experience. Some CDers, like some GGs, get stuck at this stage for an extended period of time. No big deal for either group.

Do I dress to attract men? Heavens no! The though of actually attracting a man has been worrisome to me. Then I looked in a mirror while dressed and realized that I could stop worrying about attracting men.

Do I go out s***ty? Nope, unless it is to a CDing event where one is expected to be a bit edgy, and even then I opt for tasteful side. Pretty hard to do the cleavage thing when one doesn't have any surplus flesh to rearrange!

BTW, having recently gone to a renaissance faire, I note that CDers have no exclusivity in the enjoyment of dressing up to look s***ty. Everywhere one looked one could see breasts of all sizes served up on shelves!

[Britney Johnson]

Hi all... This is such a tough talk about what is right and what is wrong with how a CD'r should dress. I don't classify myself as a CD, but know that untile I transition, I totally fall into the group that enjoys looking and feeling sexy. By that, I mean that my breast size is a D cup, I enjoy wearing fitted pencil skirts and heels that are in the 4-5 inche range. Although some may find this a ****ty work, I do not go out in public letting others believing that I am ****ty. I conduct myself very appropriately. I have some club wear as well, and have worn it out a few times with the girls on those fun sexy nights as well. Most women have the opportunity to enjoy this while they are still growing up and working thru the process of finding themselves. That is all we are doing as well, finding ourselves and figuring out where we fit in and what makes us feel comfortable with who we are. It is a difficult road, and we may not make all the right decisions, but as we progress on our journeys we become more aware of how we may be perceived by others. There are those that enjoy the attention of dressing very provocatively and I constantly see it on Craigs List, not only as the transgendered community, but also GG's that put themselves out there. I would have to agree, that there may be some low self esteem issues or, maybe they just enjoy sex that much. I don't know if I have spoken out of turn here, but I figure to each their own. There are some wound full people out there, and I won't ever cut someone short for being who they are. I don't like to be judged eighter, so why should I judge others. If there is something that I don't like or necessarily agree with, I just remove myself from that situation. That is just me though. It is unfortunate that society has to judge a group on one or a few individuals..... Anyway, hugs n love to all....Mmuuaahhh

[Pythos]

While I often feel pretty, sexy, hot, etc. when dressed "sl---y" at home in private, I don't have a clue of what, "feeling fem", is like! Probably, anymore than u know what being what a man is like

This is a masterful statement, and one that is not spoken often enough. I can have no more an idea of what it feels to be a woman as I can have an idea of what it is to be a cat. Of course I can take on the social aspects of a woman, but I NEVER can know what it is like to be one.

I don't feel "feminine" in my stuff. Never have. I do feel attractive, or exotic usually in my stuff. I feel I am breaking or stretching boundaries that normally do not get tested in our silly society. There are days I do feel like giving up though, and just going "Joe Normal"

[PrettyFlowingGown]

I agree with OP totally. I dont understand it. I see alot of CD's when i go out wear short leather skirts, skimpy lace tops, etc. and it does'nt look good.
I get laughed at cause I wear long flowing skirts, pretty tops, etc. and get told I look to formal and ladylike. Thats the way I am, i like to feel pretty and look pretty.

[CINDYO]

any guy that dresses as a SL**TY female is insulting women, and wanting to draw attention to themselves, specifically from men. They are gay men looking for attention from men. period.

[Claire_tv_uk]

i think some people are deluding theselves here,

any crossdresser who dresses in public and doesn't pass (and if we're being brutally honest thats about 95% of us, myself included), wether they're wearing demure and age appropriate clothing or a short skirt, stocking, heels and a see through top with their bra showing, is going to be ridiculed and mocked by the general public, thats a fact.

if you believe that if we all went out dressed like church goers, that the public would suddenly understand us and think we're normal then you're so deluded its not even worth discussing.

I can assure you that when guys see a crossdresser, however they are dressed they see it as amusing and in no way think that the crossdresser is representing the entire female population.

[Badtranny]

i think some people are deluding themselves here,

What? That's crazy!

;-)

[suchacutie]

Just for the record, I completly agree with TxKimberly that I totally dress in a way that makes Tina feel terrific about herself, and that was at my wife's suggestion that if you don't feel terrific in your clothes then it's the wrong look! After all, there is a very happy marriage involved, so I'm definitely NOT dressing to impress anyone else. Tina does like to impress my wife at how well she has dressed, coordinated, etc! It's simply the notion of success and having dressed as an adult an not like a child.

Now, does it impress us that Tina walks out of the bedroom looking like "a million dollars"? You bet it does! One reason is: holy cow, he took that aging body and really make it look good! Another is that there is a significant learning curve to pull that off! It's a real sense of achievement!

Lastly, think about the fact that the more skin that is shown, the harder it is to pull off a "look". Just to do it successfully in that framework is one terrific success (one that I would not be able do well, btw!) So some of the desire to dress in a provocative way is that "we can", and the other is to impress ourselves, in general.

Dressing inappropriately in public is always questionable, but that surely is not something limited to the CD population!

[Leslie Langford]

While I admit that I do have some sexy lingerie that borders on what some might consider sl*tty, I only put this on occasionally and within the confines of my own home when no one else is around. Childish, silly, self-indulgent, and even a bit fetishistic - maybe...but it's also an occasional and harmless indulgence that helps connect me to my inner femininity when I need some affirmation in that direction.

On the other hand, whenever I go out in public in "Leslie" mode, I always dress stylishly and age-appropriately, and in a manner that is respectful to the women that I try to emulate. This "pay it forward" approach has served me well over the years. While I have obviously been read by GG's on numerous occasions despite my best efforts to pass, they invariably respond to me warmly and treat me with dignity and respect because they can sense the high regard I hold for women when I conduct myself this manner.

[April_Ligeia]

If you're going to crossdress, you might as well dress however you want to. After all, the taboo is already broken. I often wear "****ty" makeup, I don't think it's right to judge other people's personal style choices so harshly. Also, how can you accuse someone of insulting an entire gender because of the way they choose to dress? Isn't that part of the point -- we can dress the way we want? I guess I just don't understand what the controversy in this thread is about. I believe in freedom of expression in order to be happy, wherever that leads, it's not hurting anyone.

[Barbara Dugan]

I have to be honest and confess that I learned to dress s***t from watching gg not from fellow crossdressers, at first it was just a form of mimic the image but when I discovered the impact that you can have on other people when you are overtly sexual it really helped me to understand my own sexuality...but I always keep telling mysel''why dress s***t when you can only get naked''

[Lorileah]

What I cannot understand is why a heterosexual male would want to dress in such a way and to want to attract or sexually arouse another guy.

The same reason some GG's do it and then walk away. Because they can. It makes them feel they have a power. It isn't any deeper than that. They want to be noticed and when it works they have the satisfaction of knowing they did it.

From a GG point of view, s****y dressing is not in the least bit sexy, its vulgar and unattractive and for a man to dress this way seems to me to be disrespectful of women generally.

Basically you have described what many GG's believe about Crossdressing in general.

My understanding of CD'ing is that you feel the need to express your feminine side - so what are you saying by dressing like a *****? that your feminine side is a s**t???

and some dress because they like the clothes and some dress because they get a sexual thrill. We are not all the same.

I can, to an extent, understand wanting to dress and be pretty, and feminine and look nice but the whole streetwalker but I dont get at all.

remember that streetwalkers are women too. As a community we are a mirror of the world. There are some here who dress like little girls. There are some who dress like elderly ladies (and several will tell you that at my age I should...but I don't). There are those that even dress like Scarlett O'Hara.

On weekends I go out. I see many 20 something GG's going into clubs dressed as you describe as sl*tty. Maybe even people you know do that when they go out. They dress that way for many reasons. When they get older they start asking the younger women "why do you do that?" I know many women who 30 years ago wore skirts that should have been headbands and I have heard those same women tsk tsk the younger women for dressing "sl*tty".

The answer is that everyone dresses to please themselves first. It is that simple. I see things everyday that I just wonder "don't they have a mirror in their house?". I make that judgement and I know I shouldn't. But one person's sl*t is another person's sexy. I don't like the word sl*t. It is pejorative and rude.

addendum

any guy that dresses as a SL**TY female is insulting women, and wanting to draw attention to themselves, specifically from men. They are gay men looking for attention from men. period.

That was rude and uncalled for and very wrong They may not even be Bi. Geez how many times are we going to beat the whole sexuality thing to death here. Again that is like painting every woman whpo goes clubbing as being of no morals.

[ArleneRaquel]

Lorileah,
The post says it all, a great addition to the thread.

[Lyndaloves]

I dress to look like a woman, any woman, its my choice how I want to dress
When dressed I also desire and want to be with a man.
To me it taking that extra to being/feeling like a woman.
Sorry to say that all I'm getting is that only hetro males are aloowed to crossdress
and only in high collared blouses, long skirts and flats. with no breast bumps showing.
It kinda of getting to be a real censership thread.
Maybe we need a manditory crossdressing uniform that we can only wear and get our own compound and all.
Anyone want to be the leader
Last time for me at this thread, tired of getting preached at.

Lynda

[Eryn]

i think some people are deluding theselves here...any crossdresser who dresses in public and doesn't pass (and if we're being brutally honest thats about 95% of us, myself included), wether they're wearing demure and age appropriate clothing or a short skirt, stocking, heels and a see through top with their bra showing, is going to be ridiculed and mocked by the general public, thats a fact. if you believe that if we all went out dressed like church goers, that the public would suddenly understand us and think we're normal then you're so deluded its not even worth discussing. I can assure you that when guys see a crossdresser, however they are dressed they see it as amusing and in no way think that the crossdresser is representing the entire female population.

Sorry, but I disagree with you. I'm 6'2" and even my femme voice is deep. I don't doubt that I get read now and then. My wife and I go to mainstream places. Restaurants, theaters, fairs, shopping, etc. and I do interact with others. I'm also dressed appropriately for the situation. I don't recall having been either ridiculed or mocked in public.

The reason, in my thinking, is that even if someone is 95% sure that I am male, there is still going to be some doubt in their mind that I might just be a spectacularly tall GG with an angular face. It would be incredibly embarassing to blatantly misidentify a woman as a man so simple politeness demands that the people interacting with me treat me as the gender that I am presenting.

The only danger comes from people whose simple politeness is undeveloped (as in children) or impaired (as by alcohol).

Also, please note that I said the I disagreed with you. I did not characterize you as "deluded." It's better to discuss the topic itself, not attack the intellegence of the other people in the discussion.

[Jenniferathome]

I dress to look like a woman, any woman, its my choice how I want to dress
Lynda

Lynda, I think you are missing the point. It is your privilege to dress any way you like. It is also SP's privilege to point out that "****ty" is disrespectful to most women. Her question is "why"?

By the way SP, most crossdressers don't go ****ty. I'd say most of us are looking to be age and dress appropriate. Some, as Badtranny pointed out, are in it for the moment.

[mylilsecret8]

I do think that certain standards of dress should be maintained when going out in public

Interesting topic and lots of good opinions from all. As long as people remain within the law, does there need to be strict standards? And who gets to decide what is appropriate and what is not? What you might consider ****ty might be perceived by others as sexy.

If I see a GG wearing a short skirt or if her thong peeks out of her low rise pants, I don't think less of her or think she must be a ****. 100 years ago someone who showed their knees would be looked at very different than today.

Personally, I feel sexy in all kinds of feminine attire...from jeans, conservative tops and dresses, as well as short skirts, garter belts, lacy bra and panties and the highest heels I can find. At no time do I feel disrespect for GGs and hope none is perceived.

[ReineD]

A major difficulty with some of the disagreements here is that everyone has their own definition of what looks sl*tty, and some people think that looking sexy is someone else's definition of looking sl*tty.

And on top of the different images everyone has in their minds, CDers have different aesthetics. One CDer may be intending to dress "sexy" while someone else might look at her and define it as "sl*tty", and vice versa.

The OP, Silentpartner, provided a description of the differences, that I think most people might agree with:

I'd like to say here that I dont really consider a maids outfit as tarty, it may fetish but not really tarty - I think we all know what tart looks like, its not the little black dress, its not the short skirt, its not the fishnet stockings, its not the high heels, its things like

skirts so short they show your undergarments
see-through blouses, with a black bra underneath
very short red pvc skirts
thigh length patent boots with 4 inch heels
over the top makeup with bright red lipstick and bright red fingernails

But its not one item on its own, its the whole package - so please, if any of you have some of these garments, dont jump on me and beat me with a big stick because any of these garments can be worn in a non-tarty way.

I have worn the little black dress, fairly short with sheer black stockings, red nail polish and red lipstick and not felt in the least bit tarty -

I hope you all know what I'm meaning here.

And last no matter how someone dresses, whether they consider themselves sexy or sl*tty, it all has to do with the motive: if they dress that way for sexual release and they are hetero, they are not doing it to attract men. Generally speaking.

If they dress that way because it is their personal definition of what beautiful women look like and their reason for dressing is to feel beautiful and not for sexual release, they still aren't doing it to attract men. Generally speaking.

If they're attracted to men when they're in guy mode, they may well dress that way to attract them, but then they're not hetero.

But I seriously doubt the majority of CDers will dress like that in the mainstream, unless they are going to a club where everyone else is dressing the same way. At least, I hope not.

EDIT
As an aside, I agree with Bab's point. If the goal is to emulate the epitome of womanhood, then dressing like a sl*t (or "sexy" depending on the definitions) gives the impression this is what the CDer prizes above all else in women, rather than appreciate them for their intelligence or their personalities. THIS is what GGs find offensive.

But, I think we need to keep in mind the different motives as explained above and also the fact that CDers who dress this way don't necessarily wish to emulate a woman's entire being. They just want to express the physical aspect. If the CDer's goal is sexual release, this has nothing to do with what he might respect and find appealing in a woman as a mate (assuming he can bring himself to appreciate a woman as much as he appreciates himself dressed). It's just sexual release based on his personal brand of sexuality. If on the other hand a CDer believes that women who dress this way represent the apex of feminine beauty then .... I don't know what to say other than he needs to expand his horizons a little.

And then we have all the CDers who don't or seldom dress that way at all unless it is just very occasionally for a variety of different reasons.

[Babeba]

Whew!! There is a lot of good discussion happening here. as Lorileah pointed out, we are like a mini reflection of the wider community, and I don't think there will ever be full agreement on points like these. More's the pity, but that is as life is.

Why not start a general style/clothing thread to help newbies pick out more acceptable clothing and styles?
By acceptable I mean normal, everyday wear.

C'mon!
Pass down your wisdom

Here is as far as I would touch this one: wear whatever grabs your fancy at home. Before you go out, close your eyes and pretend you have an 18 year old daughter. Picture her in that outfit walking downtown. If you feel uncomfortable imagining your child dressed like that, or would be worried about her safety, then it's not a good choice to wear that one out.

Hi all... This is such a tough talk about what is right and what is wrong with how a CD'r should dress. I don't classify myself as a CD, but know that untile I transition, I totally fall into the group that enjoys looking and feeling sexy. By that, I mean that my breast size is a D cup, I enjoy wearing fitted pencil skirts and heels that are in the 4-5 inche range. Although some may find this a ****ty work, I do not go out in public letting others believing that I am ****ty. I conduct myself very appropriately. I have some club wear as well, and have worn it out a few times with the girls on those fun sexy nights as well. Most women have the opportunity to enjoy this while they are still growing up and working thru the process of finding themselves. That is all we are doing as well, finding ourselves and figuring out where we fit in and what makes us feel comfortable with who we are. It is a difficult road, and we may not make all the right decisions, but as we progress on our journeys we become more aware of how we may be perceived by others. There are those that enjoy the attention of dressing very provocatively and I constantly see it on Craigs List, not only as the transgendered community, but also GG's that put themselves out there. I would have to agree, that there may be some low self esteem issues or, maybe they just enjoy sex that much. I don't know if I have spoken out of turn here, but I figure to each their own. There are some wound full people out there, and I won't ever cut someone short for being who they are. I don't like to be judged eighter, so why should I judge others. If there is something that I don't like or necessarily agree with, I just remove myself from that situation. That is just me though. It is unfortunate that society has to judge a group on one or a few individuals..... Anyway, hugs n love to all....Mmuuaahhh

Briney, I really liked your post. heck yeah, there is nothing wrong with being sexy outside - but there is a certain point when sexy becomes ****ty and that is good for no one, for the reasons you mentioned like low self esteem.

i think some people are deluding theselves here,

any crossdresser who dresses in public and doesn't pass (and if we're being brutally honest thats about 95% of us, myself included), wether they're wearing demure and age appropriate clothing or a short skirt, stocking, heels and a see through top with their bra showing, is going to be ridiculed and mocked by the general public, thats a fact.

if you believe that if we all went out dressed like church goers, that the public would suddenly understand us and think we're normal then you're so deluded its not even worth discussing.

I can assure you that when guys see a crossdresser, however they are dressed they see it as amusing and in no way think that the crossdresser is representing the entire female population.

Line up two people who are dressed like porn stars. Yeah, you're right that the general public would make big judgements of the one born male they wouldn't of the born female - but there is still the whole idea of sl•tdom on top of that. The thing that worries many GGs is that if a cross dresser dresses as a reflection of their ideas of women, and their ideas of women are based only on easy availability of sex - that is an uncomfortable view.

You know how a lot of CDs, TS folk and TGs who go out in public are concerned about which bathroom they can go in? And a lot of the general public seems uncomfortable with the idea of a dude in the ladies' room? If that CD or TG or TS person was not dressed with sex appeal front and centre I betcha they would have less of a chance of being hassled for being some sex predator or pervert.

While I admit that I do have some sexy lingerie that borders on what some might consider sl*tty, I only put this on occasionally and within the confines of my own home when no one else is around. Childish, silly, self-indulgent, and even a bit fetishistic - maybe...but it's also an occasional and harmless indulgence that helps connect me to my inner femininity when I need some affirmation in that direction.

On the other hand, whenever I go out in public in "Leslie" mode, I always dress stylishly and age-appropriately, and in a manner that is respectful to the women that I try to emulate. This "pay it forward" approach has served me well over the years. While I have obviously been read by GG's on numerous occasions despite my best efforts to pass, they invariably respond to me warmly and treat me with dignity and respect because they can sense the high regard I hold for women when I conduct myself this manner.

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH SEXY!!! Just acting as a **** is demeaning! A previous poster pointed out, it's disrespectful to men as well, presumably to assume that men are so easily manipulated and aroused.

[Claire_tv_uk]

Sorry, but I disagree with you. I'm 6'2" and even my femme voice is deep. I don't doubt that I get read now and then. My wife and I go to mainstream places. Restaurants, theaters, fairs, shopping, etc. and I do interact with others. I'm also dressed appropriately for the situation. I don't recall having been either ridiculed or mocked in public.

The reason, in my thinking, is that even if someone is 95% sure that I am male, there is still going to be some doubt in their mind that I might just be a spectacularly tall GG with an angular face. It would be incredibly embarassing to blatantly misidentify a woman as a man so simple politeness demands that the people interacting with me treat me as the gender that I am presenting.

The only danger comes from people whose simple politeness is undeveloped (as in children) or impaired (as by alcohol).

Also, please note that I said the I disagreed with you. I did not characterize you as "deluded." It's better to discuss the topic itself, not attack the intellegence of the other people in the discussion.

delusion does not imply a lack of intelligence, more a lack of willingness to understand a situation,

when i said most Cd'ers will be mocked by the public, i probably should have said that this will not neccessarily be made public by them, most people in general have an inherant politeness and a wish not to cause a scene so they'll of course be polite and nice to you, especially in the places you frequent as they're service based industries that are taught to be polite no matter who they deal with,

you hear all the time in the shopping thread when people say "yeah i tried on this, that and the other in the store the other day and the lady in the shop smiled and was very helpfull" , well obviously, they'd get sacked if they weren't, i'd still imagine a lot of them when they're on their lunch break have a jolly old laugh about us. Does this bother us? not really, but you can't say that its proof of our acceptance by the public just because we don't get laughed at when we buy clothes, in the same way that you can't say its acceptance by the public because you don't get laughed at by them in a restaurant, a lot of them will go home and say "did you see that tranny (or worse things ) on that other table?"

I don't think we'll ever be accepted in my lifetime (im early 30s) and no ammount of "appropriate" dressing will change that.

I have never been out dressed, nor do i want to but i do admire those of you who do btw.

Line up two people who are dressed like porn stars. Yeah, you're right that the general public would make big judgements of the one born male they wouldn't of the born female - but there is still the whole idea of sl•tdom on top of that. The thing that worries many GGs is that if a cross dresser dresses as a reflection of their ideas of women, and their ideas of women are based only on easy availability of sex - that is an uncomfortable view.

You know how a lot of CDs, TS folk and TGs who go out in public are concerned about which bathroom they can go in? And a lot of the general public seems uncomfortable with the idea of a dude in the ladies' room? If that CD or TG or TS person was not dressed with sex appeal front and centre I betcha they would have less of a chance of being hassled for being some sex predator or pervert.

i can only bow to your knowledge here as i don't ever have to use the ladies room. But i'd say it depended on WHERE those toilets were, in a sidestreet nightclub you'd get a different reaction that if you were in a classy restaurant.

[WifeofWrenchette]

what I would like to know, is why when a GG gets married she wear's sweat's all the time.

I'm married and I've never worn sweats.