How do you define "Transsexual"?

[emmicd]

in simplest terms gender is what is between the ears, how we think of ourselves and sex is what is between the legs, our physical anatomy.
when someone feels a disconnect between the mind and the physical anatomy and wants to alter it they are considered transgendered and they are catgorized on a scale between mild CD to severe gender dysphoria (TS). a transsexual is one who is in various stage with the true TS most likely treated with HRT, electrolysis and GRS. Most fully transition from male to female.

emmi

[LeaP]

"Transsexual":

Hell on earth. The literal embodiment of self-conflict. Continual nullification. Fear and loathing. Unrealized potential set against a backdrop of a series of failures, large and small. A continual train wreck of one's own morals and ethics in personal and social relationships. Apprehension of damage, physical, emotional, and psychological. Disgust.

Conversely, moments of hope. Realizations of purity. Real self-awareness and occasional glimpses of another physical self. Dreams of another daily reality, both better and not. A new appreciation of humanity. Emergence. Woman.

Pre-transition, at least. I can't speak to post.

However you want to define it, once I started along the path to realization, that's what it has felt like.

[melissaK]

"Transsexual":

Hell on earth. The literal embodiment of self-conflict. Continual nullification. Fear and loathing. Unrealized potential set against a backdrop of a series of failures, large and small. A continual train wreck of one's own morals and ethics in personal and social relationships. Apprehension of damage, physical, emotional, and psychological. Disgust.

Ouch.

Transsexual is a word, and words meanings change and evolve. I suppose when I first heard the word in connection with Christine Jorgenson's story, I thought it meant someone who had had GRS. I knew I wanted that too, but I was 13 in a small town, raised with conservative morals, and information about plain sex was hard enough to come by, and I am not sure what I thought - it was an overwhelming idea that I could be like Christine.

I have lived all the "hell on earth" descriptors Lea gave, and I didn't make progress with my own mental health until I thought of myself in the way Kaitlyn Michelle set forth - as a TS from birth, and that all I have to do is to decide what I want to do about it based upon factors unique to me - my mental health, physical health, personal values, and financial means. Tell others or not, CD or not, get GRS or not. Unlike an acute disease that "must" be immediately treated to live, gender disorder treatment decisions can or sometimes must be delayed. Of course delay can cause its own problems and complications.

I am not sure the DSM agrees. Creating nomenclature to identify a gender identity disorder or "disturbance" implies that a TS is something else. However the DSM goes silent and doesn't identify subgroups. I think the DSM fails us by not giving case examples that deal with what they intend to be within their nomenclature. I know there are committee notes and such that explain some of that, but they aren't readily available, and when read, there is an obvious level of disagreement among the committee members.

Certainly those who under go GRS are free to argue the TS term applies to only them, and CD describes those who just wear the clothes, and "Gender disturbed" describes those who do neither.

But in the end, a rose by any other name . . .

Hugs,
'lisa

[susiepaul]

It is my understanding, (and I certainly could be wrong) that a CD'er is more about the clothes and sexual feelings whereas a TG is born in the wrong body.

i believe a cross-dresser is a person who wears the clothing of the opposite sex but does not act like or want to be accepted as the opposite sex.
and a transvestite is a person who wears the clothing of the opposite sex acts the way of the opposite sex and wants to be accepted as the opposite sex.
and a transsexual is a person who's gender is the opposite to the sex of their body weather they go through transition or not.

i believe i am a transsexual but doubt i will ever go through transition i only wear female clothes but seldom try to pass as my gender if i new what i know now i would have tried to go for srs but as i am now 58 i doubt i would look good enough if i tried it now.

regards paulie

[Julia_in_Pa]

Anna,

Transsexualisim is a result of extreme discomfort with your birth sex.
IMO one is considered TS after one received a diagnosis of GID from a qualified professional.
One can be transsexual without SRS because they have already been diagnosed as transsexual or having GID by a qualified health professional prior to any surgery.
If one feels it necessary to not transition due to perceived responsibilities the diagnosis of GID and transsexualisim remain.
Those that have transitioned either with or without surgery did so because they had no other choice.

If someone is of the belief that they are gender fluid then they are not transsexual.
If someone labels themselves a cross dresser they are not transsexual.
If someone is omnisexul or pansexual they are not transsexual.
All of these groups are under the transgender label and have nothing to do with transsexuality.
That was not a political statement but a statement of fact.

Virginia Prince is an idiot who took his fantasy too far.
As a result he caused alot of grief for the transsexual community.

As the hashing of semantics continue the clock ticks and those that constantly question themselves lose another day.


Julia

[Maddie22]

IMO one is considered TS after one received a diagnosis of GID from a qualified professional.
One can be transsexual without SRS because they have already been diagnosed as transsexual or having GID by a qualified health professional prior to any surgery.
Julia

By this definition, a cancer patient would not have cancer until they are diagnosed with it, even if the patient has had cancer for years but have gone undiagnosed.

If someone labels themselves a cross dresser they are not transsexual.
If someone is omnisexul or pansexual they are not transsexual.
All of these groups are under the transgender label and have nothing to do with transsexuality.
That was not a political statement but a statement of fact.
Julia

Pansexuals are people who are open to being with sexually or falling in love with any person of any gender type. It has nothing to do with their own gender, but rather their sexual orientation.

When answering what a transsexual is, you can ask yourself if you believe it is a noun or an adjective. If it is a noun, then I believe the definition would be someone who is considering transitioning, in the process of transitioning or possibly has already transitioned, into the opposite physical sex that they were born into. If you continue with the thought of a transsexual being a noun, you could argue that a person who has already transitioned is now the opposite physical sex, and because of this they should just be considered a male or female. Likewise if they are not in the process of transitioning, they are not transsexual because trans is a prefix meaning to crossover or change, and thus a person is not making any current changes.

On the flip side, if you consider the term transsexual to be an adjective, then it wouldn't matter what the physical state of being is, it would matter how they feel inside. A person could consider themselves transsexual, but may not have the means or present options to start any kind of transitioning. They could be living full time as the physical gender they were born into, and be suffering on the inside because in fact their mind and soul are not congruent to their physical body. This allows for anyone to potentially be a transsexual.

Personally, I lean more towards using it as an adjective. I also feel this opens up individuals to not be totally define as a transsexual, but rather it's only a part of who they are. There are so many other parts of of what makes them a human being besides being transsexual.

[Kaz]

Gosh I so love this thread!!!! I am thinking about writing a paper about quasitranscrossdressers, or maybe semipansexuals, or maybe pandressingtranssexuals, etc...

Little boxes, little boxes and they're made out of ticky tacky?

[LeaP]

You (Maddie) are making the semantics a larger issue than it actually is. The condition is one wherein one's birth sex doesn't match their inner sense of their gender. All of the usages are legitimate for certain purposes and from certain points of view. They are neither mutually-exclusive nor exhaustive.

[Rianna Humble]

I believe gender identity is fixed...

if we can leave out the idea of gender binary or non binary for a moment and focus on transsexual, for an mtf transsexual
that means that if a person is born as a male...genetically, physically and socially, but has a gender identity of female..this is a transsexual

This is independent of what you do about your transsexual nature.
you can be a transsexual and quietly suffer it for 80 years, and you'd be no more or less transsexual than me

All I can say is , Kaitlyn

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Gosh I so love this thread!!!! I am thinking about writing a paper about quasitranscrossdressers, or maybe semipansexuals, or maybe pandressingtranssexuals, etc...

Little boxes, little boxes and they're made out of ticky tacky?

Basically everybody but the transsexuals...

[Bree-asaurus]

Gosh I so love this thread!!!! I am thinking about writing a paper about quasitranscrossdressers, or maybe semipansexuals, or maybe pandressingtranssexuals, etc...

Little boxes, little boxes and they're made out of ticky tacky?

Basically everybody but the transsexuals...

Ticky tacky? This b**** is made of brick and mortar!

[LeaP]

Ticky tacky? This b**** is made of brick and mortar!

What was that expression? Hmmm. Oh, yeah ...

"Built like a brick shi..."

Never mind.

[Julia_in_Pa]

By this definition, a cancer patient would not have cancer until they are diagnosed with it, even if the patient has had cancer for years but have gone undiagnosed.

Pansexuals are people who are open to being with sexually or falling in love with any person of any gender type. It has nothing to do with their own gender, but rather their sexual orientation.

When answering what a transsexual is, you can ask yourself if you believe it is a noun or an adjective. If it is a noun, then I believe the definition would be someone who is considering transitioning, in the process of transitioning or possibly has already transitioned, into the opposite physical sex that they were born into. If you continue with the thought of a transsexual being a noun, you could argue that a person who has already transitioned is now the opposite physical sex, and because of this they should just be considered a male or female. Likewise if they are not in the process of transitioning, they are not transsexual because trans is a prefix meaning to crossover or change, and thus a person is not making any current changes.

On the flip side, if you consider the term transsexual to be an adjective, then it wouldn't matter what the physical state of being is, it would matter how they feel inside. A person could consider themselves transsexual, but may not have the means or present options to start any kind of transitioning. They could be living full time as the physical gender they were born into, and be suffering on the inside because in fact their mind and soul are not congruent to their physical body. This allows for anyone to potentially be a transsexual.

Personally, I lean more towards using it as an adjective. I also feel this opens up individuals to not be totally define as a transsexual, but rather it's only a part of who they are. There are so many other parts of of what makes them a human being besides being transsexual.

I already knew something was incorrect prior to being medical diagnosed as intersexed.
I never said you had to be first diagnosed to be transsexual in order to be transsexual.
You can certainly live as a intersexed or transsexual person without ever transitioning.
I lived for 39 years as a non transitioned intersexed individual.
Transsexuals can also live without transitioning but without a medical diagnosis many remain confused and delay life enriching therapy and medication that they would or could otherwise miss.
A Transsexual is something you are transitioning is something you do.

I'm not saying particularly you Maddie but those that argue the merits and validity of the DSM or official and accepted medical definitions and diagnosis criteria are usually those that are neither intersexed or transsexual.


Julia

[Bree-asaurus]

What was that expression? Hmmm. Oh, yeah ...

"Built like a brick shi..."

Never mind.

I almost got offended until I googled it :P

[Kaz]

I'd just like to say at this stage that I love all of us, and think that you are all amazing people. I just struggle with all these crazy categories... I know we need them at times, but they become so destructive over time... I am not sure what I am... I don't care... I am Kaz.

[Bree-asaurus]

I'd just like to say at this stage that I love all of us, and think that you are all amazing people. I just struggle with all these crazy categories... I know we need them at times, but they become so destructive over time... I am not sure what I am... I don't care... I am Kaz.

I think the basic labels we have are fine... and I think the one that's really important is 'transsexual' because that diagnosis is required for transsexuals to be able to get the medical and legal support they need.

If I was a cross dresser or transgendered, I wouldn't care WHERE I fit in the spectrum... I wouldn't need to be a subset of cross dresser or transgender... who cares? I would just be myself and screw the labels.

It's just when some people get their panties in a bunch and start feeling like one group is saying their better than another or whatever... and it's usually someone with their own insecurities that start this kind of bickering. I don't know how many times I've seen a thread simply discussing the differences between two groups when someone gets a bunch of sand in their vagina and begins playing the victim and acting like their being told they are somehow less than someone else because they are different.

I wish more people would just chill the **** out and realize that different DOES NOT EQUAL better or worse. We should be happy about our differences and discuss them freely... not use them to belittle others or to play the victim card.

[Kaz]

Bree... you ROCK! xxx

[Marleena]

I think the basic labels we have are fine... and I think the one that's really important is 'transsexual' because that diagnosis is required for transsexuals to be able to get the medical and legal support they need.

If I was a cross dresser or transgendered, I wouldn't care WHERE I fit in the spectrum... I wouldn't need to be a subset of cross dresser or transgender... who cares? I would just be myself and screw the labels.

It's just when some people get their panties in a bunch and start feeling like one group is saying their better than another or whatever... and it's usually someone with their own insecurities that start this kind of bickering. I don't know how many times I've seen a thread simply discussing the differences between two groups when someone gets a bunch of sand in their vagina and begins playing the victim and acting like their being told they are somehow less than someone else because they are different.

I wish more people would just chill the **** out and realize that different DOES NOT EQUAL better or worse. We should be happy about our differences and discuss them freely... not use them to belittle others or to play the victim card.

Can we get this as a stickie? Nicely said.

[Anna Lorree]

I think the basic labels we have are fine... and I think the one that's really important is 'transsexual' because that diagnosis is required for transsexuals to be able to get the medical and legal support they need.

If I was a cross dresser or transgendered, I wouldn't care WHERE I fit in the spectrum... I wouldn't need to be a subset of cross dresser or transgender... who cares? I would just be myself and screw the labels.

It's just when some people get their panties in a bunch and start feeling like one group is saying their better than another or whatever... and it's usually someone with their own insecurities that start this kind of bickering. I don't know how many times I've seen a thread simply discussing the differences between two groups when someone gets a bunch of sand in their vagina and begins playing the victim and acting like their being told they are somehow less than someone else because they are different.

I wish more people would just chill the **** out and realize that different DOES NOT EQUAL better or worse. We should be happy about our differences and discuss them freely... not use them to belittle others or to play the victim card.

Hehehe, you're either bored to death, or you're on some awesome pain meds, Bree! BTW, how are you doing with your recovery?

Anna

[Lesley_Roberta]

My only problem with transexual is I was told I was transgender and they used the same definition used by transexual.

So is it like flammable and inflammable where the words are differently spelled and mean the same damned thing?

Every day it is the same issue with me here, do I post in the transexual sub forum or not?

I have NO problem with the crossdressers of our mob here, some great people too. But I am not a crosssdresser which is why I can go the girlie clothes route or not all because it isn't about the clothes with me, I don't get to turn Lesley on and off like a light switch. I feel the same way naked as I do clothed, and I feel the same way in Leslie's clothes as I would in anything made for a woman. The thing is, I'd feel a little better in woman's clothing for the same reason I suspect men feel better in men's clothing.

I just happen to be stuck in a man's body and uncomfortable with the body more than the clothes on it.

And my conundrum is I am a married person with a wife that means more to me than my life. She's always going to be ahead of my needs to be in a skirt.
But like as with any couple that truly gives a shit about their spouse's feelings, it's about BOTH worrying about the other person's happiness more than their own. The magic happens when two people are so devoted to the other, that I would elect to not wear the clothes for her, and she would elect to have me wear them for me.

This is of course also complicated by the fact that in the early morning, she's with Leslie, he's all man, and it is just convenient coincidence that he's just there for the purpose of giving his wife an intimate moment, and you don't need much of a wardrobe for having sex. Especially if you are like my family, clothing optional, and thus Leslie sleeps naked, wakes naked, has sex naked, never needs to put anything on, and by mid morning he's gone and I am in the bath and getting ready for my day.

If you asked him, he'd likely tell you only Lesley (me) is transgender. He is to his own way of thinking, just an ordinary heterosexual male.

[Bree-asaurus]

Hehehe, you're either bored to death, or you're on some awesome pain meds, Bree! BTW, how are you doing with your recovery?

Anna

Bored... lol...

Don't really even need Tylenol anymore (as long as I'm not standing for too long). Going to attempt a simple night out for dinner tomorrow... we'll see how that goes

My only problem with transexual is I was told I was transgender and they used the same definition used by transexual.

So is it like flammable and inflammable where the words are differently spelled and mean the same damned thing?

Every day it is the same issue with me here, do I post in the transexual sub forum or not?

I have NO problem with the crossdressers of our mob here, some great people too. But I am not a crosssdresser which is why I can go the girlie clothes route or not all because it isn't about the clothes with me, I don't get to turn Lesley on and off like a light switch. I feel the same way naked as I do clothed, and I feel the same way in Leslie's clothes as I would in anything made for a woman. The thing is, I'd feel a little better in woman's clothing for the same reason I suspect men feel better in men's clothing.

I just happen to be stuck in a man's body and uncomfortable with the body more than the clothes on it.

And my conundrum is I am a married person with a wife that means more to me than my life. She's always going to be ahead of my needs to be in a skirt.
But like as with any couple that truly gives a shit about their spouse's feelings, it's about BOTH worrying about the other person's happiness more than their own. The magic happens when two people are so devoted to the other, that I would elect to not wear the clothes for her, and she would elect to have me wear them for me.

This is of course also complicated by the fact that in the early morning, she's with Leslie, he's all man, and it is just convenient coincidence that he's just there for the purpose of giving his wife an intimate moment, and you don't need much of a wardrobe for having sex. Especially if you are like my family, clothing optional, and thus Leslie sleeps naked, wakes naked, has sex naked, never needs to put anything on, and by mid morning he's gone and I am in the bath and getting ready for my day.

If you asked him, he'd likely tell you only Lesley (me) is transgender. He is to his own way of thinking, just an ordinary heterosexual male.

As for what forum to post in, go where you feel comfortable. Do you relate to the people in the transexual forum more than in the cross dresser forum? That's how I made the with back when I was still questioning.

As for your relationship with your wife... this is something you have to figure out for yourself. If you're transsexual, maybe you'll be able to manage and be a man for your wife. Or maybe a few years down the road, you won't be able to handle it anymore. Do what you need to do right now to be comfortable in life. Just because you decide to stay a man for now doesn't mean you are devoting your entire life to that decision. Things change. Take your time, be honest with yourself and more importantly, be honest with your wife. Pretending to be someone your not, with the suffering and the lies, isn't what being in a relationship is about. She deserves to know who you are. Talk about this with her and see what you all can do to support each other.

[Anna Lorree]

As for your relationship with your wife... this is something you have to figure out for yourself. If you're transsexual, maybe you'll be able to manage and be a man for your wife. Or maybe a few years down the road, you won't be able to handle it anymore. Do what you need to do right now to be comfortable in life. Just because you decide to stay a man for now doesn't mean you are devoting your entire life to that decision. Things change. Take your time, be honest with yourself and more importantly, be honest with your wife. Pretending to be someone your not, with the suffering and the lies, isn't what being in a relationship is about. She deserves to know who you are. Talk about this with her and see what you all can do to support each other.

Often much easier said than done, but you are absolutely right. It is hard to confront somebody you love with a bit of news that could end the marriage, especially when nobody really did anything wrong. It's just a biological fact, but it can have massive consequences for both partners. That is where it gets difficult and sticky. Again, this is an area for both partners to take their time and not jump to quick decisions. This is hard to deal with, but it would be far harder alone, I think.

And Bree, I hope you get to enjoy your dinner tomorrow.

Anna

[Bree-asaurus]

Often much easier said than done, but you are absolutely right. It is hard to confront somebody you love with a bit of news that could end the marriage, especially when nobody really did anything wrong. It's just a biological fact, but it can have massive consequences for both partners. That is where it gets difficult and sticky. Again, this is an area for both partners to take their time and not jump to quick decisions. This is hard to deal with, but it would be far harder alone, I think.

And Bree, I hope you get to enjoy your dinner tomorrow.

Anna

Yeah... Not much is easy for us... but that's the life of a transsexual. :/

[Maddie22]

I already knew something was incorrect prior to being medical diagnosed as intersexed.
I never said you had to be first diagnosed to be transsexual in order to be transsexual.
You can certainly live as a intersexed or transsexual person without ever transitioning.
I lived for 39 years as a non transitioned intersexed individual.
Transsexuals can also live without transitioning but without a medical diagnosis many remain confused and delay life enriching therapy and medication that they would or could otherwise miss.
A Transsexual is something you are transitioning is something you do. :/

I understand this and agree with this viewpoint. Your earlier statement I did not interpret this way or the way you may have intended for.

I'm not saying particularly you Maddie but those that argue the merits and validity of the DSM or official and accepted medical definitions and diagnosis criteria are usually those that are neither intersexed or transsexual. :/

I don't exactly argue against the merits or validity of the DSM or official and accepted medical definitions, but I do have concerns about them. The biggest issue I have is using disorder in GID because it stigmatizes. I also have the understanding that the definitions, research and insights are and will continue to expand and change. I believe that this is good a thing if it stays positive. I believe that having a medical and psychological professional "gate keep" does much more good than harm.

I think the basic labels we have are fine... and I think the one that's really important is 'transsexual' because that diagnosis is required for transsexuals to be able to get the medical and legal support they need.

If I was a cross dresser or transgendered, I wouldn't care WHERE I fit in the spectrum... I wouldn't need to be a subset of cross dresser or transgender... who cares? I would just be myself and screw the labels. :/

I agree that at this moment and the foreseeable future, that it is important to be able to identify transsexuals, because of medical and legal needs (Legally speaking, I think any positive change for transsexuals or transgender individuals can have positive impacts on all peoples).

I feel that the spectrum and/or continuum are viewed as an infinite straight line. I look at it as closer to an infinite sphere, both in mental and physical makeup, and there are some people that can be on different points at the same time. For some people, the need to find equilibrium within themselves and within society are greater. I've said before that I hate labeling myself, because I don't know where I fit and I feel that there are so many negative connotations involved with many of these terms.

As for what forum to post in, go where you feel comfortable. Do you relate to the people in the transexual forum more than in the cross dresser forum? That's how I made the with back when I was still questioning. :/

For the most part, I do not enjoy the crossdressing forums, because while their individual issues might be very serious, I don't identify with them. I do realize that to find my happiness and equilibrium in life, I might have to be defined as a transsexual in order to get the necessary help I need. That definitely presents a conundrum for me.

Bree and Julia, please don't think that I'm trying to start an argument with you two. I'm just trying voice my opinion, maybe provide alternate points of view, as well as find other's view points and thoughts. I'm sorry if I've come across as a B!&@h, I was overly sensitive to a rebuttal of a post I made, and I apologize. I'm trying to figure a lot of things out right now, and I've been in an overall depressed stage in my life, with a lot of confusion and emptiness for a while now. The last week has really compounded many feelings.

BTW, I don't know about any of you, but I love the word Conundrum, it's also a beautiful wine!

[Bree-asaurus]

Bree and Julia, please don't think that I'm trying to start an argument with you two. I'm just trying voice my opinion, maybe provide alternate points of view, as well as find other's view points and thoughts. I'm sorry if I've come across as a B!&@h, I was overly sensitive to a rebuttal of a post I made, and I apologize. I'm trying to figure a lot of things out right now, and I've been in an overall depressed stage in my life, with a lot of confusion and emptiness for a while now. The last week has really compounded many feelings.

It's all just discussions and laid back debating to me... until someone gets their panties in a bunch, takes something too personally and cries foul.

I just get blunt... I don't really get angry. I don't see a point in getting angry in an online discussion because the only person it hurts is myself

I'm just sharing my opinion like you are

And I can almost guarantee you I've unintentionally come across as a b**** from time to time as well.