Gender education in schools

[AlexisRaeMoon]

Conversation with my kids in the car...(both are grade school age).

Daughter: Bobby (name changed) wants to be a girl.

Me: How do you know this?

D: He's always hanging around with girls, and draws pictures of girls and dresses, and says he wants to be one.

Son: You know, they have surgery that can make him a girl.

Me: What?? How do you know about that?

S: We had an assembly about, like, gender and stuff like that. Mrs. So and So told us about it.

I have to say, I was utterly flabbergasted. Could you imagine being in school in the 70s or 80 and having them teach us about tolerance for people out of the gender "norms?" I'm sure it would've saved a lot of us some major guilt. I imagine this is part of the anti-bullying initiatives that you see now, but it's great to see recognition that this is a reality, and it's ok to be this way.

Maybe in our lifetimes, there won't be a need to hide ourselves away? Maybe??

[Lesley_Roberta]

I am glad my son is exiting the education system soon.

He has already had to physically leave actually being in one for doing it online as it is.

Every time I read an article connected to the world of education I generally end up VERY angry.

They don't teach anything worth squat in schools end of story full stop.

Not that I object to them occasionally trying to be useful, like in the above post example, but frankly, I'd rather teach my son about life, and have schools stick to math, science, language, history, PE. I wish it was taught to kids in uniforms, I wish kids had to wear them correctly. I wish kids were taught being rude to teachers meant they got to help the janitor. I wish kids ignoring the rules led to being told they could always take their year again if they insist. I'd rather kids went to school all year, but had shorter days and had more time for clubs and activities so that going to school wasn't just drudgery and was something they would hate to miss.

[AllieSF]

One large step for one school and hopefully one small step for the rest of the school systems. I hope more follow suit real soon.

[Julogden]

There are lots of intolerant (IMO) people who don't want their kids to be taught stuff like that, so I don't think that's being done everywhere, not yet anyway.

Carol

[Foxglove]

Could you imagine being in school in the 70s or 80 and having them teach us about tolerance for people out of the gender "norms?" I'm sure it would've saved a lot of us some major guilt. I imagine this is part of the anti-bullying initiatives that you see now, but it's great to see recognition that this is a reality, and it's ok to be this way.

Maybe in our lifetimes, there won't be a need to hide ourselves away? Maybe??

I know what you're saying, Arianna, and I think it's wonderful. But for some of us, stuff like that at school wouldn't have done a bit of good.

I was in school in the 60's, and if I'd gone home reporting a talk like that at school (which never would have happened, of course), my folks wouldn't have been the least bit impressed. Sometimes guilt starts at home, and I'm not sure that what's going on at school can compensate for what's going on at home.

The fact that this stuff is being taught at school shows that bit by bit society as a whole is opening up. And not a moment too soon. We can always hope for the future.

Best wishes, Annabelle

[JessHaust]

Maybe in our lifetimes, there won't be a need to hide ourselves away? Maybe??

The only need we have now to hide, is the one we make up for ourselves.

[Frédérique]

Could you imagine being in school in the 70s or 80 and having them teach us about tolerance for people out of the gender "norms?" I'm sure it would've saved a lot of us some major guilt. I imagine this is part of the anti-bullying initiatives that you see now, but it's great to see recognition that this is a reality, and it's ok to be this way. Maybe in our lifetimes, there won't be a need to hide ourselves away? Maybe??

[SIZE="2"]Tell me when it’s safe to come OUT...

I imagine there would be more sex education, or acknowledgement of cultural virtues, in the place where you live, since there are more people, more different kinds of people, and more ways of looking at something. Where I live, the blinders are firmly in place, there is an official “handbook” to follow, and intolerance reigns...

There is still vociferous resistance against same-sex marriage in these parts, which is evidence of deep-seated family “values” and ossified sensibilities. The message is “Let the bullying continue,” not only for the good of the people, in this case children, but also for the good of correctness. In this case, a not-so tacit denial of diversity amounts to child abuse, but few have the courage to recognize it as such. You are indeed fortunate to live in a place where more than ONE voice can be heard...
[/SIZE]

[Marleena]

The Canadian schools are teaching the students about transgender issues since it ties directly into bullying. Our local police force even got involved in a play about the struggles of being transgendered that was presented to the schools and general public. Things are slowly improving.

[NicoleScott]

Tolerance in schools? Let's see how that's going:
- one student is offended by the Pledge of Allegience, so nobody is allowed to recite it.
- Thanksgiving is a religious thing - nothing that can be associated with it allowed.
- Christmas - same as above - no red or green decorations allowed. No nativity scenes allowed.
- Valedictorian required to submit speech draft for approval. Sorry, no references to God allowed. You may talk about who inspired you: Hitler-OK, Bin Laden-no problem, Charles Manson- allowed, Jesus - not allowed.
- Can't wear t-shirts with American Flag on the fifth of May - may offend a Mexican who is here illegally.

[JessHaust]

Tolerance in schools? Let's see how that's going:
- one student is offended by the Pledge of Allegience, so nobody is allowed to recite it.
- Thanksgiving is a religious thing - nothing that can be associated with it allowed.
- Christmas - same as above - no red or green decorations allowed. No nativity scenes allowed.
- Valedictorian required to submit speech draft for approval. Sorry, no references to God allowed. You may talk about who inspired you: Hitler-OK, Bin Laden-no problem, Charles Manson- allowed, Jesus - not allowed.
- Can't wear t-shirts with American Flag on the fifth of May - may offend a Mexican who is here illegally.

Nicole,
From what year in the future are you reporting? Schools in the Dallas area are started every day with the pledge of alegance. Including the required statement of belief in god.Thanksgiving is still the fairy tale it always was, christmas is celebrated every year and kids are all allowed to recieve its christian message, all sporting events are begun with a christian prayer as are all graduation ceremonits.
Here in 2011 we are still allowed the religous freedom to practice whatever form of christianity we want, just nothing else.

[Bobbie cd]

Kansas is a sometimes strange, sometimes wonderful place.
I am not that familiar with the Lindsborg area, but I am sure most people would think that Topeka with the wonderful WBC folk would be a festering center of hate and intolerance, yet I have not found it so.
I know that I do not always "pass" (especially when I open my fat gob, LOL), but I have been running around this town for years in various states of dress and have yet to run into any real overt hatred.
Quizzical looks, disgusted stares, the occasional snicker, yes, but for the most part people around here are too wrapped in their own miserable lives to expend any energy hassling someone like me.
People can stare all they want, laugh as they like, say what they will, it will not stop me from being me.
I do not live my life to meet their expectations, only my own.

[Badtranny]

Maybe in our lifetimes, there won't be a need to hide ourselves away? Maybe??

Hmmmmm, maybe indeed.

[Stephenie S]

Hmm. Just a little bit of intolerance here and there in this thread?

[NicoleScott]

Jess, not any one school, but all the items I mentioned were real events from different places over the past couple of years. I'm glad that such examples of intolerance are rare. I was trying to point out that tolerance for others' beliefs and lifestyles should apply evenly.

[AlexisRaeMoon]

Well, I guess I touched off a little firestorm here...I realize I'm fortunate to live in a place that is very liberal and extremely tolerant. So, yes, this in an anomaly. But, it has to start somewhere. Regarding religious holidays, rather than simply banning Christmas, we include celebrations of many difference cultures. It's about diversity and inclusiveness, so no one feels left out. This is the same thing. If the community (i.e. schools, etc.) don't start teaching tolerance, be it gender-related, sexual, religious, racial, etc., things may never change. If we expect kids to learn that crossdressing (for example) is ok in the home, that may never happen. There's generation of intolerance in many areas, and if those barriers are to be broken down, sometimes that change needs to come from outside the home.

But, I guess the main reason I posted this was because I'm still flabbergasted that they are teaching this now in *some* schools. I think it can only be a good thing. But then again, I'm biased!

[Jilmac]

I say it's about time kids learned gender diversity in school and to take it a step further, schools could invite people from the transgender community to show the kids that we are normal in every way and that thete's nothing to fear about seeing a guy wearing a dress or skirt and presenting as a female.

[Julogden]

Tolerance in schools? Let's see how that's going:
- one student is offended by the Pledge of Allegience, so nobody is allowed to recite it.
- Thanksgiving is a religious thing - nothing that can be associated with it allowed.
- Christmas - same as above - no red or green decorations allowed. No nativity scenes allowed.
- Valedictorian required to submit speech draft for approval. Sorry, no references to God allowed. You may talk about who inspired you: Hitler-OK, Bin Laden-no problem, Charles Manson- allowed, Jesus - not allowed.
- Can't wear t-shirts with American Flag on the fifth of May - may offend a Mexican who is here illegally.

I don't know where that's happening, certainly not here in the Chicago area.

Carol

[Roxie X]

It is true it ties in with allsorts of issues like bullying, self esteem, the list grows. In my work life I regularly assist at clubs for LGBT and they are sometimes the most balanced if sometimes volatile, but always accepting of everyone who treats them for being them a person.
I believed education is the key to acceptance.

[AngelaKelly<3]

I trained to be a teacher and the subject of Genders was something that they really spend a lot of time making sure student teachers know a lot about. They are making some great progress on this topic; but I think they are focussing on getting Homophobia down in schools and opting to put Transphobia to one side, as being gay is more accepted in society than being Transgendered...unfortunately

EDIT: Forgot to mention, this is happening in Scotland; where even the 100s of Catholic schools are forced, by law, to adress this issue with tollerance lol

[Alissa]

I don't know where that's happening, certainly not here in the Chicago area.

Carol

In my kids' school all references to Christmas are stripped from all christmas songs at the "Holiday concert". Words in songs are actually changed from "Christmas" to "holiday". Thankfully, they still say the pledge in school, but there are districts around the country that no longer do.

Put me down with the people who think our schools should stick to math, science, history, and the study of our constitution and how our great nation was formed. The "teaching" of social issues, sex ed, etc should be left to the parents. Amazing that so much of a school day is spent on nontypical school subjects and people wonder why government schools in the USA are falling behind. Their only solution is to throw more money at it and try to come up with another subject to replace time that used to be spent on math and science.

[Julogden]

Alissa, I have to respectfully disagree. Most parents are nowhere near being capable of teaching their kids about human sexuality and gender without passing on personal biases, prejudices and plain misinformation, as most parents are ignorant of those subjects.

A good education is one that is rich and varied, covering all sorts of topics and issues besides the basics that you mentioned.

The pledge of allegience, which didn't exist until 1892, wouldn't be banned anywhere if we'd just drop the "under God" phrase that was added in 1954 during the McCarthy days when everyone was paranoid about "atheistic" communists. The Knights of Columbus led the movement to add that phrase. It isn't part of the original pledge of allegience. We ought to drop that part and then the kids could recite the pledge in all schools again.

Carol

[Eryn]

Tolerance in schools? Let's see how that's going:
- one student is offended by the Pledge of Allegience, so nobody is allowed to recite it.
- Thanksgiving is a religious thing - nothing that can be associated with it allowed.
- Christmas - same as above - no red or green decorations allowed. No nativity scenes allowed.
- Valedictorian required to submit speech draft for approval. Sorry, no references to God allowed. You may talk about who inspired you: Hitler-OK, Bin Laden-no problem, Charles Manson- allowed, Jesus - not allowed.
- Can't wear t-shirts with American Flag on the fifth of May - may offend a Mexican who is here illegally.

Jess, not any one school, but all the items I mentioned were real events from different places over the past couple of years. I'm glad that such examples of intolerance are rare. I was trying to point out that tolerance for others' beliefs and lifestyles should apply evenly.

If it was in the last couple of years you should be able to provide a citation for these events in the mainstream media so we may discuss them in context.

School administrators often end up caught in the middle between activists. For example, in a hypothetical case where a skinhead gang adopts American flag attire to intimidate Hispanic students I can understand how administrators, in the interest of providing a safe environment, might say that no flags of any kind may be worn. Of course, by the time this story hits the media it has morphed into "The school banned the Stars and Stripes!"

[NicoleScott]

If it was in the last couple of years you should be able to provide a citation for these events in the mainstream media so we may discuss them in context.

School administrators often end up caught in the middle between activists. For example, in a hypothetical case where a skinhead gang adopts American flag attire to intimidate Hispanic students I can understand how administrators, in the interest of providing a safe environment, might say that no flags of any kind may be worn. Of course, by the time this story hits the media it has morphed into "The school banned the Stars and Stripes!"

Eryn, the events I listed were real - I did not make them up. This was a post on a crossdressers forum, not a term paper. I could give you specifics, but I won't. Just google them and you can find them. I'm surprised you hadn't heard of these incidents. Perhaps your news sources don't like to cover these types of things.
We don't need further discussion, as it's not the topic of the thread. They were isolated incidents, and I only wanted to show that "schools" (in general, collectively, not all or any one) are inconsistent in teaching and demonstrating tolerance.

Good for the school for the gender education assembly. I'm for education, but against indoctrination. Just today there was a report (with audio recording evidence) of a teacher who told a student that she could be arrested for criticizing the President. How about the class that was given a project to dig up dirt on Republican Presidential candidates and send it to the Democrats? This is education? Or a teacher's agenda?

I pretty much agree with the second part of your post, Eryn. Administrators can be caught in the middle, and decisions can be difficult. I'm not sure their decision was the best one in the case of the American flag t-shirt ban. If there was evidence of trouble brewing, the troublemakers should have been addressed. It's much like moving a kid to another class because a class bully might beat him up. Sure, safety was assured, but shouldn't the bully have been removed instead?
As you recall, the flag t-shirt indident was during a Cinco de Mayo celebration - in THIS country! So American kids can't wear red, white, and blue in an American school because it might offend those celebrating Mexican independence? We're losing it.

Yes, the media can distort the real story with inaccurate or misleading headlines. I remember a headline "Man Gets Life for Stealing Pizza". Well, if you go on to read the story, he was convicted many times of various felonies, and this was the one that put him away as a habitual offender. You don't life for stealing a pizza, you get put away for a life of crime when society says "enough".

Anyway, back to the topic. I'm in favor of parents opting out of programs or events thay they deem inappropriate for their children. Don't like Christmas? Allow the child to not participate. Political dirt-digging projects? Allow the student to choose their own candidate, or opt out.

I'd be happy if schools just taught academics, like they're supposed to. And let the parents do their assigned jobs.

[Eryn]

Eryn, the events I listed were real - I did not make them up. This was a post on a crossdressers forum, not a term paper. I could give you specifics, but I won't. Just google them and you can find them. I'm surprised you hadn't heard of these incidents. Perhaps your news sources don't like to cover these types of things.
We don't need further discussion, as it's not the topic of the thread. They were isolated incidents, and I only wanted to show that "schools" (in general, collectively, not all or any one) are inconsistent in teaching and demonstrating tolerance.

I don't see much point in vaguely citing isolated incidents and then painting the entire educational systems "in general" with them. I didn't see those stories on reuters, cnn, AP or any other mainstream news outlet. That leads me to believe that the stories were more of the "wacky news" variety than indicative of any important trend.

I pretty much agree with the second part of your post, Eryn. Administrators can be caught in the middle, and decisions can be difficult. I'm not sure their decision was the best one in the case of the American flag t-shirt ban. If there was evidence of trouble brewing, the troublemakers should have been addressed. It's much like moving a kid to another class because a class bully might beat him up. Sure, safety was assured, but shouldn't the bully have been removed instead?
As you recall, the flag t-shirt indident was during a Cinco de Mayo celebration - in THIS country! So American kids can't wear red, white, and blue in an American school because it might offend those celebrating Mexican independence? We're losing it.

Since you won't cite the relevant article we have no way of knowing what actually happened. It's easy to play armchair quarterback, but if you were in the principal's chair you might have an entirely different perspective. You cannot punish wrongdoing in advance, but you can take steps to prevent incidents from occurring. In a situation like that banning the wearing of any flag would be a reasonable step. BTW, May 5th is not Mexican Independence Day.

[Stephanie47]

When I was in elementary school every Friday we had an assembly. The boys were required to wear navy pants, white shirts, and red ties. The girls were required to wear navy skirts, white blouses and red scarves. The Pledge of Allegiance was recited without "Under God" until it was added by Congressional edit in 1954. The principal read verses from the Old and the New Testaments. There were Christmas Parties, Halloween Parties (No Wicca), Easter recess, including Good Friday. Public schools allowed students to leave at 2 PM to attend religious instruction at their houses of worship. Stores were closed on Sundays under 'blue laws.' It sounds so goooood!

There was religious intolerance. There was racial hatred. Don't even ask what would happen if you were not heterosexual. Women were second class citizens.

Today, well you be the judge in your own neighborhood.