CD, TG, TS! Can someone explain the REAL differences u feel to me?

[Joanne f]

This is just my take on it but I do realise that there are far wiser people who know a lot more about the subject than I do, I use to think that there are basically 3 groups but I am wondering if that should not be 4 groups .
Group 1, The man who just likes to wear a skirt and has no thought of being feminine at all .
Group 2, The cross dresser who likes to dress to feel feminine for the length of time while they are dressed.
Group 3 , The transgender who feels like they have both genders within them regardless of what they are wearing .
Group 4, The transsexual who knows that they were born in the wrong body .

Now just to complicate things if you are at the higher end of your group then you can jump up to the next group with 3 being the biggest contender for this to happen.

As for intolerance I beleave that I am a mix of all groups in other words I have been or am any one of those groups at a given time so I would like to think that I am tolerant and understanding of all types of dressing .

[Bree-asaurus]

Now just to complicate things if you are at the higher end of your group then you can jump up to the next group with 3 being the biggest contender for this to happen.

It's not really that you can jump from say, group 3 to group 4. What is really happening is someone who is transexual, who was born that way, will mistakenly identify themselves as a cross dresser or other form of transgender. They just aren't being totally honest with themselves or are ill-informed.

I thought I was a cross dresser for a number of years while I really was transsexual all along. I also thought I liked women, even though I had been with men and had no desire to be with women.

It's funny how the mind works, and how you can keep secrets from yourself.

[docrobbysherry]

I did NOT intend this thread to have ANYTHING to do with labels or definitions! And, in so doing, I apparently misused some labels and definitions. In any case, some of u have objected to, or chose to elaborate on them!

What I was hoping to hear, was what group u feel u belonged to, and why/if u have problems with the other TG groups! Feel free to make up your own label! As Reine said; u can be a TSQ, or, a 50% CD/TS, or WHATEVER. Anything u THINK/FEEL U R.
And, whatever u think/feel about the OTHER TG group(s). Using whatever labels or definitions U think apply!

OMG.... so many people believe false information.

Transexuals are not people who "take it all the way" or "want to become female."

Transexuals are BORN transexual. In their brain, the identify as the gender opposite of their physical sex. That means a MTF TS does not identify as a man, they hate everything about PRETENDING to be a man. They are a woman inside. Their internal gender does not match their external sex.

Since you can't change your internal gender, the only thing a transexual can do is change their external sex to match their gender.

A transexual can DECIDE whether or not to transition. They can live the rest of their lives knowing they are transexual, they can suffer quietly in pain and live the way society tells them to live. Many do not do this because they get to a point where they just can't take it anymore and they NEED to transition. For many, it's transition or death.

Just because someone does not transition does not mean they are not transexual... AND just because someone does transition does not mean they are transexual. A man who transitions to 'become' female is still a male. A cross dresser who transitions is still a cross dresser. A transexual who does not transition is still a transexual.

This is a nice expanded definition, Bree. But, I don't often see the words, "me" or, "I think/feel", in your post! So, I'm still am not sure what u feel u r or, where u stand?

That's just plain nuts and delusional in my opinion RS, to think we may be different or better than anyone else. This is why long ago I made up my mind to accept everyone for who they are as a person, not as a "this, that or the other thing". We are all basically people the way I look at it. My one and only rule for friendship is to just always be yourself, as that is the person I appreciate and relate to.

As far as "muggles" I honestly don't care what they like or dislike. The reason I am here is to help others but that doesn't necessarily include pleasing them. In fact you can never please everyone. As my old Pappy (and Bret Maverick) used to say: "You can please some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time but you can never please all of the people all of the time."

Thank u, Kate! Now, I understand much better where u and others who have defied categorizing themselves, stand!

As far as I'm concerned, if u can't define a comfortable category for yourself, u don't feel like you're in one! If so, you're probably less likely to care which category others choose for themselves.
Attitudes I can COMPLETELY relate to!

However, I was hoping for responses from the more judgmental among us! The ones who identify with with ONE TG group or another. And, have strong feelings about the OTHER GROUPS also!

[Marleena]

The best definitions are found in the Harry Benjamin research papers IMO, Sherry.

As for part 2 I do not care where anybody is in the LGBT/IS spectrum. If they are nice people that's all that matters to me.

[Bree-asaurus]

I did NOT intend this thread to have ANYTHING to do with labels or definitions! And, in so doing, I apparently misused some labels and definitions. In any case, some of u have objected to, or chose to elaborate on them!

What I was hoping to hear, was what group u feel u belonged to, and why/if u have problems with the other TG groups! Feel free to make up your own label! As Reine said; u can be a TSQ, or, a 50% CD/TS, or WHATEVER. Anything u THINK/FEEL U R.
And, whatever u think/feel about the OTHER TG group(s). Using whatever labels or definitions U think apply!


This is a nice expanded definition, Bree. But, I don't often see the words, "me" or, "I think/feel", in your post! So, I'm still am not sure what u feel u r or, where u stand?

Well, you asked what people feel about the differences in the groups, and you gave those groups labels AND definitions. So I wanted to make sure you understood the real differences between some of the groups that you had mis-interpreted. Groups and labels kind of go hand-in-hand, don't they? :P

And anyone typing anything here is expressing their opinion... that kind of goes without saying And I am your classic MTF transsexual. So I think you do know how I feel :P

And I have no problems with any TG groups... or any groups for that matter, as long as they are not spreading hate (KKK, the hate-filled religious types, etc.).

[ReineD]

AND just because someone does transition does not mean they are transexual. A man who transitions to 'become' female is still a male. A cross dresser who transitions is still a cross dresser.

In a similar discussion with my SO some months ago, she brought up another group of people that are seldom talked about. She believes there are also "transsexuals by choice". These would be the CDers or bigenders who do transition, and when they realize that life as a woman was not what they thought it would be, they still make the best of it and go on.

[Bree-asaurus]

In a similar discussion with my SO some months ago, she brought up another group of people that are seldom talked about. She believes there are also "transsexuals by choice". These would be the CDers or bigenders who do transition, and when they realize that life as a woman was not what they thought it would be, they still make the best of it and go on.

I don't believe that they are transexual then (or 'transexual by choice' or anything). They are CDs or TGs or whatever they really are on the inside. They just chose to live a lie pretending to be 100% woman. I'd call them 'Transitioned Transgenders' or something lol... but they don't identify as transsexual and aren't transexual. It is interesting what some people fool themselves into thinking though... Being a woman isn't some magical fantasy full of vaginas, boobs and unicorns that fart rainbows.

[whowhatwhen]

I also thought I liked women, even though I had been with men and had no desire to be with women.

It's funny how the mind works, and how you can keep secrets from yourself.

I'm going through this now myself and trying to work it out with the help of my therapist...
Interesting how you keep insisting you like women, yet the evidence overwhelmingly just shows you're saying that because you're "supposed to".

Still can't accept it though.
:P

[Bree-asaurus]

I'm going through this now myself and trying to work it out with the help of my therapist...
Interesting how you keep insisting you like women, yet the evidence overwhelmingly just shows you're saying that because you're "supposed to".

Still can't accept it though.
:P

What really helps, is being with a man and finding out for sure

Just make sure you take the time to find a good one who knows you're unsure and who is willing to listen and make it a fun experience for the both of you.... not just the first hunk of meat who is looking for action. BE SAFE!

[whowhatwhen]

Will do
Trust is a huge issue so it's not like I'd be trolling CL for some random **** XD

I just find it interesting how hard it is to accept some things even though you, and everyone else already knows the answer.

Sure, you can find women beautiful... But not being physically interested in them is kind of a deal breaker.

[Bree-asaurus]

Will do
Trust is a huge issue so it's not like I'd be trolling CL for some random **** XD

I just find it interesting how hard it is to accept some things even though you, and everyone else already knows the answer.

Sure, you can find women beautiful... But not being physically interested in them is kind of a deal breaker.

Oh yes... women are beautiful and sexy... that's just women. But having sex with them or a relationship? Bleh... no thanks.

[docrobbysherry]

Well, you asked what people feel about the differences in the groups, and you gave those groups labels AND definitions. So I wanted to make sure you understood the real differences between some of the groups that you had mis-interpreted. Groups and labels kind of go hand-in-hand, don't they? :P

And anyone typing anything here is expressing their opinion... that kind of goes without saying And I am your classic MTF transsexual. So I think you do know how I feel :P

And I have no problems with any TG groups... or any groups for that matter, as long as they are not spreading hate (KKK, the hate-filled religious types, etc.).

I know u, Bree. You're clearly trans and I've never heard u say anything not accepting or a depricating word about anyone or group! But, I've seen a number of posts from others NOT so accepting! I hoped to hear from them!

Oh yes... women are beautiful and sexy... that's just women. But having sex with them or a relationship? Bleh... no thanks.

In a similar discussion with my SO some months ago, she brought up another group of people that are seldom talked about. She believes there are also "transsexuals by choice". These would be the CDers or bigenders who do transition, and when they realize that life as a woman was not what they thought it would be, they still make the best of it and go on.

OK! Sigh! I give up on this thread! Bree, Reine, ANYONE! Take over and take it anywhere u like!

Hey! What about those Kings? And/or, too bad about the Lakers and Clippers! LOL!

[Lesley_Roberta]

Chances are I am TG. But I am routinely getting flustered with the forums method of arrangement.

I have had one thread deleted, guess it was too honest (in the Lounge). I don't really mind, it was just a comment, I thought I kept it civil, but a mod didn't like it and I have always felt, it's just a post, someone was unhappy with it, no real loss so no real reason to complain about staff deleting it.

I have had a few threads moved, and I really wasn't bothered by it, I just can't seem to pick the right forum very often it seems though.

I recently had a post deleted just because it wasn't considered relevant to the thread, and personally I thought it was, I tried my best for it to be so, but I guess it was deemed not. But I came away thinking there are places here I am simply not welcome.

And I am not 100% sure I am TG, because I am not as of yet sure I am not suffering from two actual different personalities. Just because I don't conveniently fit into psychiatric terminology, doesn't mean I am not an example. Until I find out what the shrink wants to talk about, I am leaving the labels alone.

When I post I often wonder, am I a cross dresser?, because it isn't something I just want to do 'occasionally' regardless of magnitude.
But also inside of me there is a guy, that wants to be a guy, an all guy type guy, and not at all interested in giving away his male parts not to mention not interested in female clothing. Leslie is not me though.
Leslie is the reason I can't get rid of the male parts. Me, I'd rather be a female, and an all the way female even if I believe an all the way female is never an option. Because just removing my male parts doesn't make my body magically female. You might greatly adjust the appearance, but Leslie's bone structure isn't going anywhere for instance. Leslie can't become entirely female regardless of how much Lesley (me) wants it.

I don't think I belong to any of the forum categories actually. It sure plays hell with my trying to post. And it gets annoying, because I pour myself into these posts, and then next morning I discover 'oh it got deleted'. And all that effort is gone. This isn't a game forum where all I am doing is blathering about the latest game. It's not a tech forum, nor a science forum. And every single post I have submitted was very important to me.

I might feel happier if I had a Transgender section I could belong in.
But I might be happiest if there just wasn't as many subdivisions.
If you ask me, every last one of us is a crossdresser, because every last one of us is wearing the other genders clothing. A guy wearing girls clothes is identical to a girl wearing guys clothes in the context of this community. But a lot of us are not wearing the other genders clothes for amusment. Right now I am genuinely bummed out that I will likely always look peculiar in women's clothing. I have the capacity to be honest with myself. I DO NOT HAVE BREASTS. I HAVE MALE SEX ORGANS THAT ARE NOT EASY TO IGNORE. And I simply have too many male anatomical features. It sucks.

It really depresses me, that in spite of how incredibly blunt I have been in comments to friends, they can't really seem to believe I am not the guy you think I am.
They seem to actually behave as if I have never said any of the things I have said on Facebook for example.
It's almost like if they don't accept it, it will just not be so.

I want to be able to show up at my friend's place, for an afternoon of playing Civilization on our computers and then a great steak dinner, and do it in a nice dress or a skirt and let it be HIS problem that it looks like he is dating me to an outside observer. Gee Bill are you queer for Les? Are you two having sex?
I want to be sitting at the game table and be sitting there dressed as a girl, and as a girl and not have to explain why my role game character is a girl. It's because I am a girl you moron. Why are you playing a male character?

I have yet to find where I belong here at Crossdressers.com which I might add, is a site name that is not entirely useful to some of us.

[Frédérique]

Some of u feel quite DIFFERENT about/from the other "categories" of folks here, tho. Can u explain to me WHY?

[SIZE="2"]Well, as a crossdresser I feel less “serious” than any TG or TS individual, and I assume that the latter are looking down at me to a certain degree. In other words, there are times when I feel insecure in the TG community. I mean, I just dress up from time to time, purely for enjoyment, and I am associated with transgender as a result. This has been an educational period for me, so I look into where I am, and how I got here. The question is always, “Do I belong?”

I don’t feel fully gender-blurred to present as a female 24/7, but doing so would be a dream come true. The problem is, my “take” on females has changed over time, so I really don’t wish to be completely transformed and permanently over on the fictitious “other” side. This means there are others who are WAY more accomplished than I am, and I look up to these individuals. I can only make do with what I have, under the circumstances...

To the outside world, however, I am transgendered, tossed in with all of the other individuals who do not adhere to strict ideas of gender, and thus are targeted for intolerance. That’s OK by me – I like the company! It’s fun to be VERY different, even though I’m not as different as I theoretically could be...
[/SIZE]

[Marleena]

Chances are I am TG. But I am routinely getting flustered with the forums method of arrangement.

I have had one thread deleted, guess it was too honest (in the Lounge). I don't really mind, it was just a comment, I thought I kept it civil, but a mod didn't like it and I have always felt, it's just a post, someone was unhappy with it, no real loss so no real reason to complain about staff deleting it.

You posted in a thread that was specified for GG's to reply to in the Loved Ones. Usually they (mods) give you a reason for a move or deletion.

With all due respect you sometimes confuse the heck out of me with your two personalities. Then both of your male/female names sound exactly the same. Perhaps if you appear here in "girl mode" only it might help. Most of us took on female names when we joined here and it sure helps me.

We are all TG here here so take time to read the rules for posting in each section to get a feel for it. I still get threads moved occasionally too.

[Joanne f]

It's not really that you can jump from say, group 3 to group 4. What is really happening is someone who is transexual, who was born that way, will mistakenly identify themselves as a cross dresser or other form of transgender. They just aren't being totally honest with themselves or are ill-informed.

I thought I was a cross dresser for a number of years while I really was transsexual all along. I also thought I liked women, even though I had been with men and had no desire to be with women.

It's funny how the mind works, and how you can keep secrets from yourself.

Yes you are right , for some it is a learning process , I meant the same thing you just put it in a better way ,it is sometimes a matter of understanding yourself and then accepting it .

[Kaz]

Gosh, so much angst still... for some of us belonging to a label/group seems to be so important! I wonder why?

[docrobbysherry]

Gosh, so much angst still... for some of us belonging to a label/group seems to be so important! I wonder why?

I wish you'd started this thread with these simple words, Kaz! That's actually what I wondered about!

[Lorileah]

I think it is simple. It is all alphabetical. CD are near the front. That is where most people start (except the non-conformists...but people here conform mostly...right?) Then you move on GQ comes next, then you get to the "T"s and TG comes before TS...so as you progress through the alphabet you can eventually get to be TS's which as we all know is the desired end result...right?

Sherry, all the letters and numbers and black and white 8-10 glossy photos with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back will never get us an answer. Especially when we as a group cannot even agree on what each letter means.

All the TS's who want to g their separate ways, I wish you well. I hope you have a full and wonderful life, as you should. All we ask then is that you GO your separate way and don't try and tell the rest of us that we are holding you back or somehow interfering with your life. I worship the fact that you have made your decision. That you have come to the end of your path. That you will be accepted in the world for who you are and will never have any issues with laws or daily life. That you did all this by pulling up your own bootstraps. That no one who is not in your circle has ever done anything to get you where you are. Because as we all know when you get the surgery, you are a woman who has no need for support for I don't know...getting married (many states don't accept you as a female and some states that do don't accept your marriage to your current spouse when you do get a new gender marker)? Getting a job (ENDA Has not passed yet)? Not being discriminated against in any manner (just the fact that you are now a woman makes that unlikely)? Life is all roses and unicorns after surgery so go get them tiger. You don't need any of the gender or gay rights groups anymore. I don't see us holding you here.

I dislike labels. But I like when we can use them to unite instead of divide. When "we" as a group start peeing on each other it makes it so much easier for other groups to keep "us" down.

[sometimes_miss]

I don't understand the 'thrill' that some guys talk about that they get from wearing female clothes. I have tried to study psychology extensively and understand the whole fetish thing, so maybe that's got something to do with it. But I don't get any 'charge' out of dressing up, nor do I usually get sexually turned on when dressed in girl clothes (and when I do, it's not the clothes that cause it, it's thoughts of or seeing a woman that I find really, well, 'hot' for lack of a better term).
The TG/TS folks, I understand better, because I'm closer to that, though I'm probably closer to the 'gender bender' description than anything else, because I never get the urge to have sex with men.
How do I feel about it all? We're all individuals; and we're all just a little bit, (like snowflakes) different. Live and let live.

[LeaP]

... you can eventually get to be TS's which as we all know is the desired end result...right?

Not so much when you start questioning whether or not you want to keep living.

... All the TS's who want to go their separate ways, I wish you well.
...
I dislike labels. But I like when we can use them to unite instead of divide. When "we" as a group start peeing on each other it makes it so much easier for other groups to keep "us" down.

I should clarify my statement about going separate ways, because I did use those exact words. What I meant is conceptually separating transsexuals and intersexuals out of broader conceptions like transgender. Whether or not it makes sense to combine in a coalition for political purposes is a separable point. I have no problem with labels.

[Bree-asaurus]

Not so much when you start questioning whether or not you want to keep living.



I should clarify my statement about going separate ways, because I did use those exact words. What I meant is conceptually separating transsexuals and intersexuals out of broader conceptions like transgender. Whether or not it makes sense to combine in a coalition for political purposes is a separable point. I have no problem with labels.

Yes... let's not confuse discussing the differences between two groups with saying the two groups should not stand together for equality and freedom from discrimination.

We can be different and still hold hands.

[elizabethamy]

depends on how sweaty your palms are, bree!

Seriously -- all this political infighting makes me so sad. It reminds one of the Chicanos vs. Puertorriquenos, or the light skinned African Americans vs the darker skinned, or even going way back, the protestants vs the Catholics. Oldest trick in the book is for the ruling elites to divide the oppressed into categories and let them fight each other while the elites continue to rule.

TG/TS/CD Solidarity! Sweaty palms or not!

elizabethamy

[SaraTV]

Unless you're conducting some sort of scientific study; why try to quantify yourself at all?

You don't have to be 20% TG and 60% CD w/ the leftover being TS. Just be yourself with all the love for your own inner beauty!

[Bree-asaurus]

Unless you're conducting some sort of scientific study; why try to quantify yourself at all?

You don't have to be 20% TG and 60% CD w/ the leftover being TS. Just be yourself with all the love for your own inner beauty!

I agree. Just be who you are.

The only time you need to label yourself is if you need to get external help from therapists, doctors, surgeons and the government so you can live your life as yourself... basically, if you are transsexual.