Labels: The Black Hole between CD and TS.

[Marleena]

We have a love/hate relationship with labels here that's for sure. Some of us don't seem to fit in anywhere. I have been noticing for a long while that many fit into the "black hole" between CD and TS so I'm posting this.

I have been calling myself TG instead which I know is incorrect but I can easily see many others that fit in here. We are the ones that rather present in girl mode most of the time. We don't care much for guy mode and are using it only for work, family, etc. Perhaps we are not done our journey or in denial or we're just satisfied being at this point. It's not about the clothes anymore but the feeling of being "right" in girl mode.

Anybody else notice this missing label (or category) or am I just overthinking it?

[suzy1]

You have just described me Marleena!

But you are in danger of just trying to invent another label girl. A CDTSM [M is for mixture]
And yes, I think you are over thinking it.

I have the perfect label for me, it’s…………………….me.

Get back in the box girl

hugs

[Sandra1746]

Labels are good if you are sorting colors or biological species but they also divide groups who should be working together. Just because one person feels they have the label XYZ doesn't give them any status over another who has, or self identifies, with YZX. The are certainly used by our opponents to stigmatize us, and work to promote internal division.

I self identify as TG because it is a fairly broad definition and satisfies most people who need labels. However the rigid application and insistence on labels is divisive and counterproductive. We need to work together to a common goal of UNDERSTANDING and ACCEPTANCE. What we call ourselves is far less important.

Just my opinion,
Sandra1746

[Tina B.]

Marleena, now you have gone and done it, we are going to have a talk about what it means to be a CD, TG, or TS, all over again! And what does it all mean anyway?
When I first tried to learn just what I was, the only term I had heard was Transvestite, so I adopted it. Then as I grew older and the inter net came along, I found out it was bad to be a transvestite, so I stopped being one and became a cross dresser.
But Just what is a cross dresser, and just what is a transgendered person, is there a real difference, or just choices with in. I read on here all the time about people that dress for pleasure, it's a hobby, then you hear from someone like Karren Hutton or myself, that will admit to being driven to dress, it's not a choice, it's a deep need that can't be ignored. Are we the same as those that just do it for fun, I don't think so.
I've also found that since I have retired, and have more time, and letestosteroneone, I need to dress a lot more of the time just to keep myself feeling whole. Am I a TS in denial, or a TG, that reached there limit of what they need, or are all of us non TS, just different parts of the same thing, I don't know, but also don't feel CD says it, and TS is more than I want or can have anyway. So maybe there is a place betweeneen, why not, seems I've spent my whole life in between.
Tina B.

[Dawn cd]

One can certainly make a distinction between CD and TS, but there's no point in making too many distinctions. The middle ground is fluid. People move back and forth. And when you look at them closely, there is fluidity even within the TS and CD categories. Instead of focusing on distinctions, I like the stress the things that bring us together: We're all human beings on this journey.

[Krististeph]

Hi Marleena, I agree with you- I think of myself as TG. TS to me means someone who has pretty much made the full transition, and CD means someone who dresses female, but not all the time. The labels are kind of a problem, so i'm happy to use any. On this forum, I'll try to use 'CD' as a general reference to all of us just because the site is called "CrossDressers" (sic), but as we all know, there are SO many increments from someone who likes to wear pantyhose to a full MtF change, as well as various offshoots in other directions.

So me, the term CD pretty much means any of us here on the board, who not only crossdresses in some manner, but who also tries to promote the melding of gender for those who are not satisfied with being either/or.

This is the old can of worms question, but it's quite valid to revive it at regular intervals. Some of our 'veterans' here may get tired of seeing it- but it is like teaching- even if you know the subject to the point you are bored to tears with it- to others it is a new thing, and they should have the benefit of hashing it out like we did, even if there is a faq that covers much of the subject. The discussion is a social thing, eh?

labels are shortcuts- the more descriptive the label, the high the quantity of discreet labels is needed, and thus negates the usefulness of a shorter label as 'short hand'.

-kristi (TG with mostly CD, part time makeup, only occasionally goes out en femme, like to bike ride, run, or rollerblade in colder weather in female gear- being able to bundle up hides the lesser feminine parts of me, sometimes thinks about transitioning, etc.etc.)

[Jilmac]

I never was a big fan of labels. I've lived under the guise of labels my whole life. To me, just being who I am is good enough, if others need to hang a label on me such as "tranny", it's because they don't understand or refuse to comprehend why I enjoy doing what I do. A truly accepting person will not hang a label on someone else but will try to learn more about the person in question.

[Janelle_C]

Just when I thought I had it all figured out now I'm all confused lol. But it is all a little confusing, I thought I knew where I was heading and now I just know, CD, TS, TG. I know its a journey and I need to enjoy the trip.

[terrianncd]

I came to this site some time ago to talk with and get support from others like me. Afterall I have been a (fill in the blank) all my life. Have, like all of us tried to ignore the fact that I am (fill in the blank). Got married, had kids, had others that came first once one has kids. Finally after a lot of years, I met a wonderfull woman who loves both of me and life was good. As I had been a (fill in the blank) all my life I thought I would have a lot to share and be able to help others and myself by being a member here. As one gets older the pressure of not being who you really are takes a toll mentally. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one. But here I thought I had found home. Crossdressers.com.... Instead I was blasted in the TG forum because my user name (that I have had for many years) has CD in it. And that my Avatar has me in a wedding dress, therefore I was deemed not a "real" tg and should just go away. Now that photo of me in the dress is just before my wedding in the same dress and it's a flattering photo I thought, thus it was and is my avatar. This drove into such a depression that I considered ending the torture that is life as a (fill in the blank). If I was not accepted at Crossdressers.com then what exactly was I? I believe that in this forum labels should be banned as we would not be here unless we shared a common need, and the site is crossdressers.com afterall. I no longer come here often as now this site represents pain to me. I just can't get past how some here can be so insenstive to others feelings. At a site that should be all about help and support.

Go ahead and blast away....

[Contessa]

Things that make you feel good about yourself cost more than those that don't. Foundation costs less than cosmetic surgery. I don't have to figure it out anymore I am a non transitioning transexual. I use crossdressing to ease the need for surgery. That makes me transgendered. We are all just human beings none having a more greater degree of existence than the other. We live together cause we aren't the same, and we are all we have. We should do things for each other and not for money, cause we're all we've got. We lose us all the time and have to find others to replace them. I believe that people are our greatest resource. Not money. Who we are is just that who we are. It is us who have done this to us. Pitting one against the other for money. What I am makes no difference when I am dead. What have you to say about that which I have told you? Isn't it okay to have many titles so that you don't use them against anyone or yourself. We must all learn to love one another my mother always said and it still holds true.

Tess

[JessHaust]

Yes, everybody hates 'labels', but it is what we humans do, and we have been doing it since the dawn of time. We labeled edible plants and animals as 'Food', we labeled one sex as men the other as woman. It's how we keep things straight in our minds. Are all labels absolutely correct? No, but they still have a purpose.

So the debate goes on, who is a cross-dresser, who is Transgender and who is transexual? The last one is easy. If you feel trapped in the wrong body and want to change it, even if you don't have the means to do so, then you are transexual.
But the other 2 are much less defined. Probably because they are fairly new terms created to help define the once very broad term transvestite. Most modern definitions state that a transgender is anyone presenting themselves as a gender other than the one they were born with. So by that definition I am most definitely Transgender.

I think the sticking point comes down to that phrase 'presenting themselves', what exactly constitutes presenting? For me it means that I go out in public and dress like, walk like and act like a woman. I want people around me to think 'there goes a woman' ( OK I really want them to think 'There goes an attractive woman', but that is another story).

So where does that put the wide range of others here that stretch from wearing panties, sometimes, under their male pants, to those that dress fully, go out but still keep facial hair? I don't know, but I think that if you are going to try and draw the line between a 'Cross-dresser and a transgender, look to that definition and ask yourself 'Am I trying to present myself as a woman?'

Once you have done this, just forget the label and go enjoy yourself!

[Kate Simmons]

Beats me Hon. All of this designation stuff wears me out, so I don't bother with it much. When I think of you, let's say, I think of my friend Marleena. Simple as that for me.

[Jennifer in CO]

terriann.. I'll hold the cannon - you pull the cord...we ain't taken no prisioners...
A label is something many women cut out of their clothes....hence why should we try and make us one?

Jenn

[Lesley_Roberta]

Wish I was so lucky to be a TG being told they were a CD or a CD wondering about being a TS.

Until I have it proven I am NOT two distinct people in my head, I suppose I am sharing the body with a male chauvanist pig (well he is ) and me well I am not him.

So I consider myself living with an old fashioned hetero male chauvanist non CD TG TS ABCDEFG with him wanting about 3 hours a morning doing a time share whereupon he lets me have the controls and then I become a TG ok with becoming a TS on her way to new plumbing as soon as I get the green light so I can be a lesbian in a male shaped body with a female conversion kit. Acronym that if you can

My shrink will need to be on top of his game to convince me I am only just a screwed up male with anger management issues. Because I don't think so.

I don't want to 'dress up' any more than my sister does. In other words, give me some place to go to worth doing the make up, doing the legs, wearing uncomfortable heels, and confining lingerie and a freshly ironed outfit. Because I am NOT doing that just to go for a walk so I can confuse the neighbours Around the house I likely don't want much more on than Leslie does. Male tshirt or female blouse, I suppose it looks mostly the same. I'd probably wear panties just to hide the nuisance.

Today's fixation was 'why do girls all look so good in shorts?' what is it about the cut of female shorts that makes them able to show off their legs, and yet, I can't find male shorts that do the same. And can I find a nice pair of white shorts in my waist size needs than don't end up being just not quite capris. I want something that shows off my legs. I WANT to show off my legs. I wouldn't mind showing off my ass too I suppose. Been told I have a nice ass by women before (I think they might be insane though ).

[Kate Simmons]

Well, Lesley, we either have the Jeans (genes) or shorts for this stuff or we don't.

[Foxglove]

I have been calling myself TG instead which I know is incorrect but I can easily see many others that fit in here. We are the ones that rather present in girl mode most of the time. We don't care much for guy mode and are using it only for work, family, etc. Perhaps we are not done our journey or in denial or we're just satisfied being at this point. It's not about the clothes anymore but the feeling of being "right" in girl mode.

Anybody else notice this missing label (or category) or am I just overthinking it?

Good for you, Marleena! A very good question you're asking here.

Unlike a lot of people on this forum, I absolutely love labels. I've been working with them all my life. They warm my heart, they satisfy my mind, they fill my soul. I've spent my life working with and studying various languages, and languages are collections of labels. You have a concept in your mind. It may be an object, an action, an emotion, and you want to express it. We invent labels to do that.

"Car" is a label for an object. "Run" is a label for an action. "Beautiful" is a label for a quality. "Hope" is a label for a feeling. And so on and so on. We couldn't communicate without labels. In fact, the invention of labels was one of the most important steps the human species ever took. In a certain sense, the ability to use labels makes us human.

The beauty of labels is that they are not the end of a process. Rather they are a beginning. Once you've succeeded in identifying a thing and given it a label, you've succeeded in focusing your thinking so that you can go on to explore all the nuances that that label can express. When you work with languages, you get used to this process. It's your bread and butter.

E.g., I'm a member of a language forum. A French person might post a sentence in French and ask us how best to say it in English. Then we English-speakers will start thrashing it out. Various suggestions are made, and quite often a lot of debate will arise over which word or phrase precisely is the best one to use in context. Because each word will carry so many little nuances and feelings that no dictionary can ever explain in detail and that no foreigner can instinctively grasp. Get into languages and you'll be amazed at the almost magical things that your brain can do, immensely complex things that you do that you're not even aware that you're doing. People who never study languages have a hard time appreciating how subtle and sharp the human mind is.

So why this fear of labels? For one thing, we fear that they're limiting. As I've already explained, they're not. Labels are a starting point, not the finish. Because they're abused? Yes. Nasty people often abuse good things. If they don't like a certain group of people, they invent a nasty label for them. Or they take a perfectly innocuous label and turn it into an insult. That's their problem. We shouldn't let nasty people wreck what are perfectly useful tools.

But labels are often beautiful. The most beautiful one I've ever come up with is "Annabelle". I cannot express to you what that label means to me, all that it contains and encapsulates. But there's no need for me to even try. You've all come up with labels for yourselves, labels that say "you", labels that encapsulate all that you find within yourself. You all know what I'm on about here because you've been through the same search for a good label that I have.

So, this is how Marleena views herself: We are the ones that rather present in girl mode most of the time. We don't care much for guy mode and are using it only for work, family, etc. Perhaps we are not done our journey or in denial or we're just satisfied being at this point. It's not about the clothes anymore but the feeling of being "right" in girl mode. And she wants a label for that. Of course, she does, because once she has a good label, she doesn't have to repeat the whole rigamarole every time. One or two little words, and she's got a whole set of ideas in a nutshell. That's what makes labels so useful. And once she's got that label, she can explore that label, and that label might eventually grow so large for all it contains that it becomes inadequate and she'll look for a new one to replace it. Labels, i.e., words are always evolving. They evolve because our thought evolves. I.e., we learn. And that's what the whole game is about, and that's why labels are such useful, marvellous tools.

Lately I've had occasion to contact a couple of organizations for information that involved my situation as a TG person. So I've told them, "I'm Transgender." Being cisgender people themselves, they may not know all the ins-and-outs of the word, but they've got enough basic information to work with. Saying "I'm Transgender" is lot easier than saying "I'm one of those people who . . ." and then go into a whole song and dance, trying to describe what I am.

So, Marleena, I think from your description of yourself, you and I have a lot in common. Lately I've been labelling myself "TGF"--a Third Gender person who presents as female. This label is inadequate because it's incomplete. There are other TG people who present as female, but for different reasons than mine. So I'm searching for a better label. And as I carry on my search, I learn more about myself, what motivates me, what I'm seeking, what I'm hoping for. A label helps me do this because I've learned that a label is nothing to fear.

Best wishes, Annabelle

[Kerstin]

I think it's quite simple. If you're not transsexual then you're a man or woman who simply likes to wear the clothes of the opposite gender.

[Jocelyn Quivers]

Yes I agree with the love/hate label relationship and that it's too restricting to limit oneself to a particular label with there being so many varations between CD-TS. Which is why I've come up with some additional unemotional labels for that black hole to make everything more confusing.

1. CD-Plus
2. Advanced Level-CD
3. CD-Level A
4. Enhanced CD

[whowhatwhen]

Beef and bean burrito label: Burns after eating

[Anna Lorree]

terriann.. I'll hold the cannon - you pull the cord...we ain't taken no prisioners...
A label is something many women cut out of their clothes....hence why should we try and make us one?

Jenn

Because if a person wants medical treatment for their version of this condition, labels are needed. Thus, at least transsexuals and perchance transgenderists (I know it's an old term, but I think it is still relevant as being between CD and TS) have a very real need for labels as they interact with therapists, medical doctors and insurance companies.

Anna

[*Vanessa*]

Hi Marleena

Labels are for street signs. They are great for getting from point A to B but aren't very good at describing how a girl feels inside. Umbrella terms are great for letting you know what library you are in but does little to describe the section of interest.. lol

Yes I am still here but don't talk much anymore... hum sounds like a song, maybe in the making..

cheers

[carhill2mn]

Marleena, your descrption of yourself also fits me. I consider myself a CD because that "label" is more accurate than the others currently in use.

[DeeJayGram]

I myself consider myself a CD, in that i live as a guy and dress as a girl as much as a I can. And I am gay, cause i like to spend time as a girl with other guys that are dressed or not.

[elizabethamy]

When I first went to this site to try to understand my new habit of crossdressing, I discovered this raging debate...and it seemed that to CD's it was mostly about "the look" - clothes, makeup, shopping, heels, hose...all good things, of course, but those of us who wanted to know why, who were/are tormented to varying degrees by gender dysphoria/identity issues, would call ourselves something else.

The very first thing I read on the first day here when I was just curious about crossdressing was the famous joke (new to me then): "
What's the difference between a crossdresser and a transsexual?"
"Two years."

Your mileage may vary...

elizabethamy

[Lesley_Roberta]

Going back to my ole stand by, my ideal perfect label.

I am a 1%er and happy to be one. Because I WILL be in the 1% category if looked at long enough. There's always something, always a detail that fouls an otherwise popular category.

I am not saying I am special, I am just saying I almost likely will end up not fitting in with a group easily.

I am a 1%er among every group I have encountered. Wargamers, role gamers, model makers, writers, wood workers, anime fans, history nuts and science enthusiasts.

It's not easy being the odd person out in a group of 100 people. Not easy telling 99 people you disagree.