Too Old?

[LeaP]

Of all the reasons I read for not transitioning, being too old is the one that puzzles me the most. I half-jokingly said I was too old for transition to my therapist once. She laughed and dismissed it out of hand. My own expression of age was really one of embarrassment at that point. I felt a ridiculous figure sitting there presenting as a middle-aged male talking about femininity.

Too old is a sentiment that is posted frequently on the forum. I've read from those in their seventies ... and from those still in their teens! I don't understand it, considering age in itself. One might have health issues that prevent hormones or surgeries, appearance concerns affecting passability, family obligations that take precedence - any number of things around which rationales or excuses (take your pick) may be constructed. but age itself?

Does anyone really think age is an issue for themselves? Or are you using it as a shorthand term to refer to other issues?

[Sandra1746]

I consider myself "too old" to transition. That said, I also do not have the absolute need to transition-age may be a factor here too. A transition would pretty much mean starting over, and at 66 that's a daunting prospect; surgery at that age is not an inviting prospect. I can self-identify as transgender and cross dress so that is the compromise I have to make. My wife is OK with this, transition would not go well with her and I love her. Life is all a series of compromises and the trick to happiness is to find the optimum ones for your situation.

Hugs,
Sandra1746

[Kristy_K]

I don't think you can ever really be to old to transition if you need to.

I do wish I could have transition when I was younger. But I didn't so I will take what I can get now and make the best use of the time I do have left in life.

[Stephenie S]

Here is the absolute truth.

You are never too old. The OP is right. We hear this excuse from all ages from the twenties to the seventies. Too old? Ridiculous! It's only another excuse, just as lame as all the other excuses.

S

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Sandra
If being too old is not the issue, its not the issue.....i think what lea is talking about is "needing to " transition, and feeling (or using the excuse) that your age precludes it..
if you don't need to transition in your mind, then compromise is a viable option...one of the reasons i think i end up being ok with TS being a "disorder" is because we tend to suffer from this overwhelming need that makes compromise impossible..its very suffocating and frustrating...it sure seems clinically valid to me...we literally CANT NOT transition, or we start to feel like dying... if you don't feel this way, you are lucky!

For me Lea, the single most impactful thought i ever had was over my age and my mortality.. it was the thought that i would 60 or 70 or 80 , on my deathbed or on the beach, and i would just "know" all of a sudden that i wasted my entire life, that i would deeply regret not living as myself, that i had gifted my life away out of fear and lack of courage, with nothing to show for it other than a bitter understanding that i had lived an unauthentic worthless life...and that i would know there was absolutely nothing i could ever ever ever do about it....YIKES!!!!!!!!!

that was the turning point for me... so my answer to everyone is you are not too old... and don't get caught up in surgery...yes the surgery is amazing and helpful, but its not neccessary...older women are commonly hormone challenged...if you are older, you will pass much easier...if you have no hair, i understand that is daunting issue..but lots of older women wear wigs...and a good wig will go unnoticed , and the only problem will be comfort...

if you are retired, you have no work issues..your kids are likely grown up..etc..

what would you get out of a no surgery, no HRT transition?
...you'd get the incredible feeling of doing something that felt like YOU for the first time in your life...and you'd get it every day..
when i felt this for the first time, there was no concept of turning back..

[LeaP]

I consider myself "too old" to transition. That said, I also do not have the absolute need to transition-age may be a factor here too. A transition would pretty much mean starting over, and at 66 that's a daunting prospect; surgery at that age is not an inviting prospect. I can self-identify as transgender and cross dress so that is the compromise I have to make. My wife is OK with this, transition would not go well with her and I love her. Life is all a series of compromises and the trick to happiness is to find the optimum ones for your situation.

I agree with all of this except the starting over part, at least for someone who feels compelled to transition. There are two aspects to starting over. One is the transition itself, and that's no different at 60 than 30, in my opinion. The other is the notion of investment, that one has invested too much in the current life to risk. There one has to ask about the wisdom of hanging on to something that one knows is false and a source of pain. I.e., a bad investment.

[Lorileah]

Wow, you all have the answer. The thing is that some of us are comfortable with not having complete SRS and at our age we really don't see the advantage to spending thousands of dollars and basically not doing anything more than we are doing now. OK so maybe it isn't just age. However, in our minds we are what we are. Having your body altered may or may not bring us the full happiness we are after.

Not every TS NEEDS to have things altered especially at an age when things like joints, hearts, kidneys etc are more important to survival. Since we all have our own reasons for having or not having SRS surgery,m I find it really impertinent for people to say it is an excuse. Maybe it would make yo all happier if we just said "I don't want the damn surgery!" but then we get the really nice TS's who tell us we aren't TS. That we are wanna be's or fakes or part timers.

I am at the age where I do not see an advantage to having the surgery. Thus in my mind and heart I am "too old". I am not a physical or metabolic risk to not have surgery but there are a few out there who may be. But I don't see how it will change how I live or what I do. I am beyond looking for a mate, having a family, I can do things that make it appear that I am female without the surgery. Even though I appear younger (by at least 10 years) when I am totally made up I don't really care. Many of us have the mind set that even after surgery we would most likely dress as we do daily (I know there are many here who believe that they would dress like prom queens every day but we know that doesn't happen). So why do I need to have surgery to wear jeans and a top?

I am beyond the age where hormones will do a whole lot to change me. My hips won't spread, my shoulders won't decrease, my breast may gain a half a cup. I would look pretty strange with perky breasts and an old body. Do they do surgery that will make my breasts look like a 55 year old woman? Probably not so I will keep what I have.

I have great respect for those who have or are going to have SRS in any manner. However some of us just do not see the reason the spend that kind of money for what little time we may have here. If you cannot respect the fact that there are a few of us who see age as a reason to not have surgery, then you really have a narrow mind. That's my excuse and I am sticking to it

[Julia_in_Pa]

Lea,

If someone is using age as an excuse not to transition they were never supposed to transition to begin with.
I'm using transitioning in the social sense. Full time living, 24-7.

Most use the age card as a crutch concerning being too old but I've seen quite a few that were under the age of twenty use it as an excuse as well.
" I have plenty of time " they say.

No you don't.

Time will catch all of us by surprise.
To quote Pink Floyd from the song " Time " " Shorter of breath and one day closer to death. "

With each passing second life leaves us never to return and those with excuses will die with them.



Julia

[Linda St. John]

Wow ! Thanks Lori, you said everything I wanted to say ....only much better ....again thanks !

[LeaP]

I have great respect for those who have or are going to have SRS in any manner. However some of us just do not see the reason the spend that kind of money for what little time we may have here. If you cannot respect the fact that there are a few of us who see age as a reason to not have surgery, then you really have a narrow mind. That's my excuse and I am sticking to it

Most of what you've described isn't truly age. Your response is also strongly focused on surgery and, to a lesser extent, hormones. I can understand that, as I mentioned them in the OP itself, but neither are necessary for transition.

In writing this, I realize how strongly I feel about social transition vs. all the rest. To me, the barrier IS social transition. After all, it's possible to undergo SRS and take hormones without ever living as a woman. HRT and SRS may convey considerable benefit - or not, depending on your goals, something you've illustrated very well. I recently wrote to someone that SRS was an affirmation of what they had already become. That is how I would regard itself for myself as well, best case.

[Bree-asaurus]

Wow, you all have the answer. The thing is that some of us are comfortable with not having complete SRS and at our age we really don't see the advantage to spending thousands of dollars and basically not doing anything more than we are doing now. OK so maybe it isn't just age. However, in our minds we are what we are. Having your body altered may or may not bring us the full happiness we are after.

Not every TS NEEDS to have things altered especially at an age when things like joints, hearts, kidneys etc are more important to survival. Since we all have our own reasons for having or not having SRS surgery,m I find it really impertinent for people to say it is an excuse. Maybe it would make yo all happier if we just said "I don't want the damn surgery!" but then we get the really nice TS's who tell us we aren't TS. That we are wanna be's or fakes or part timers.

I am at the age where I do not see an advantage to having the surgery. Thus in my mind and heart I am "too old". I am not a physical or metabolic risk to not have surgery but there are a few out there who may be. But I don't see how it will change how I live or what I do. I am beyond looking for a mate, having a family, I can do things that make it appear that I am female without the surgery. Even though I appear younger (by at least 10 years) when I am totally made up I don't really care. Many of us have the mind set that even after surgery we would most likely dress as we do daily (I know there are many here who believe that they would dress like prom queens every day but we know that doesn't happen). So why do I need to have surgery to wear jeans and a top?

I am beyond the age where hormones will do a whole lot to change me. My hips won't spread, my shoulders won't decrease, my breast may gain a half a cup. I would look pretty strange with perky breasts and an old body. Do they do surgery that will make my breasts look like a 55 year old woman? Probably not so I will keep what I have.

I have great respect for those who have or are going to have SRS in any manner. However some of us just do not see the reason the spend that kind of money for what little time we may have here. If you cannot respect the fact that there are a few of us who see age as a reason to not have surgery, then you really have a narrow mind. That's my excuse and I am sticking to it

I think you made an assumption that you need to have SRS to transition... this is a false assumption. Transitioning is living your life as yourself. That doesn't REQUIRE that you undergo HRT or have any surgeries.


But regardless, the sole point of getting SRS is not so you can run around and use your new vagina everywhere. My BF doesn't have a penis... if I get SRS, it's not for sex... it's because I hate what I have and want to get rid of it. So even if I was 60, I would still probably want to get SRS. But that's just me.

But like has been said... excuses excuses excuses. You either need to transition or you don't. People will point the blame at anything but themselves.

[Stephenie S]

I think you made an assumption that you need to have SRS to transition... this is a false assumption. Transitioning is living your life as yourself. That doesn't REQUIRE that you undergo HRT or have any surgeries.


But regardless, the sole point of getting SRS is not so you can run around and use your new vagina everywhere. My BF doesn't have a penis... if I get SRS, it's not for sex... it's because I hate what I have and want to get rid of it. So even if I was 60, I would still probably want to get SRS. But that's just me.

But like has been said... excuses excuses excuses. You either need to transition or you don't. People will point the blame at anything but themselves.

Repeated for truth.

Thank you Bree. That was nicely put.

Stephie

[RachelOKC]

Can someone be too old? No, I don't think you can ever be too old to find happiness in becoming who you want to be. My old friend Michelle transitioned in her mid-60's and died about ten years later. Could she have done it sooner? Maybe. But I know for a fact that those ten years were some of the happiest of her life, finally living who she really was inside.

I agree with Bree that it's a false assumption that you have to have SRS to transition. Many transitioned people I know haven't and won't have any sort of SRS for lack of money, desire, need, or results. What really matters most is how you feel between your ears and not between your legs. While the latter may be a path to the former, it isn't necessarily so.

Empirically speaking it's probably better to transition sooner rather than later, but if you have to do it, better later than never. I don't want to die wishing I'd tried to be myself. Like my friend Michelle, I'd rather go knowing that I DID.

[Kathryn Martin]

If you accept that congruence is at the heart of need of a person with the transsexual condition then SRS is a completion not an affirmation.

I do not believe that age is a factor at all. We say age is a factor because we fail to properly describe what the real reason is. I think that as you get older both change and security concerns become much more important.

There is a fallacy in the view that "transitioning"is living your life as yourself. It raises the question what is "yourself"? Is it a woman, a man, a gender bender, a crossdresser or what? While transitioning can describe anything that gets people from one state of being to another in the context of this board "transitioning" means to transition from one sex to another in confirmation of what the true gender is. The urgency of congruence will vary. This is a trite statement in that it was described from the beginning by Benjamin. He even developed a scale to reflect urgency as a determining factor.

SRS is only for those, for whom dressing the part and behaving the part is not enough. They experience their disability as a deep wound in the fabric of their lives. To state:

at our age we really don't see the advantage to spending thousands of dollars and basically not doing anything more than we are doing now.

indicates that the urgency of congruence is lower than for those that are high intensity transsexuals. The statement focuses on financial security and on behavior and completely misses the injury experienced by those that have a high urgency to be congruent.

It is at this bright red line that persons with gender variance divide themselves from transsexuals. This is never an issue of validity, but always an issue of deeper understanding of both conditions.

Most of what you've described isn't truly age. Your response is also strongly focused on surgery and, to a lesser extent, hormones. I can understand that, as I mentioned them in the OP itself, but neither are necessary for transition.

In writing this, I realize how strongly I feel about social transition vs. all the rest. To me, the barrier IS social transition. After all, it's possible to undergo SRS and take hormones without ever living as a woman. HRT and SRS may convey considerable benefit - or not, depending on your goals, something you've illustrated very well. I recently wrote to someone that SRS was an affirmation of what they had already become. That is how I would regard itself for myself as well, best case.

[Bree-asaurus]

There is a fallacy in the view that "transitioning"is living your life as yourself. It raises the question what is "yourself"? Is it a woman, a man, a gender bender, a crossdresser or what?

Well, we're talking about transexuals here, so what I was referring to is a MTF living as a female or an FTM living as a male.

I'm an MTF transsexual and I'm transitioning and I am living my life as myself. I don't know when, if ever, I will finish transitioning because SRS is still in my future. After I get that, I still have no idea how things will change, and how my transition will continue. So many say that transition really begins after SRS, and not having had that, I don't really know what to expect. So I'm just doing what I can to be myself every day (hence my recent orchiectomy to help me out until I can get SRS).

[Traci Elizabeth]

There is only ONE age limit for transitioning. It's called [SIZE="7"]DEATH![/SIZE]

[RADER]

What all have said is true; However, remember you heal a lot slower at 65 than at 35.
Just a thought.
And a second thing just came to mind:
At 35, you will live a lot longer transitioned than at 65, So you are getting a bigger
bang for your Buck.
Rader

[Kathryn Martin]

Uhhmmm, excuse me I am 58 and am healing like a world champion. You just have to prepare properly..........

And - I am not sure that bang for the buck would be the right expression here, we are talking about vaginas after all...... what you say makes it sound all prostitutionary .....

What all have said is true; However, remember you heal a lot slower at 65 than at 35.
Just a thought.
And a second thing just came to mind:
At 35, you will live a lot longer transitioned than at 65, So you are getting a bigger
bang for your Buck.
Rader

[Traci Elizabeth]

What all have said is true; However, remember you heal a lot slower at 65 than at 35.
Just a thought.
And a second thing just came to mind:
At 35, you will live a lot longer transitioned than at 65, So you are getting a bigger
bang for your Buck.
Rader

Both of these points are irrelevant because "whenever" you are ready to transition be it 19 or 91, it will be just as magnificent, beneficial, and important regardless of how old you are. And I would claim, even more so the older one is.

You can NOT put a cost/benefit analysis on happiness or being "whole." There is no such thing as more bang for your buck when you are younger vs older. I would state that someone who transitions late in life values and treasures each and every moment more so than younger ladies as the younger you are the more you are likely to take it for granted or to squander time away.

Just saying!

[Kristy_K]

What all have said is true; However, remember you heal a lot slower at 65 than at 35.
Just a thought.
And a second thing just came to mind:
At 35, you will live a lot longer transitioned than at 65, So you are getting a bigger
bang for your Buck.
Rader

I am also 58 and I heal just fine. Even if you transition at 35 you could die the next day or the next year.

People I have seen that needs to transition does not consider them things as being important at the time they transition.

Money will not buy happiness but transitioning can for some people.

[LeaP]

If you accept that congruence is at the heart of need of a person with the transsexual condition then SRS is a completion not an affirmation.

...

There is a fallacy in the view that "transitioning"is living your life as yourself. It raises the question what is "yourself"? Is it a woman, a man, a gender bender, a crossdresser or what? While transitioning can describe anything that gets people from one state of being to another in the context of this board "transitioning" means to transition from one sex to another in confirmation of what the true gender is. The urgency of congruence will vary. ...

SRS is only for those, for whom dressing the part and behaving the part is not enough. They experience their disability as a deep wound in the fabric of their lives. To state: indicates that the urgency of congruence is lower than for those that are high intensity transsexuals. The statement focuses on financial security and on behavior and completely misses the injury experienced by those that have a high urgency to be congruent.

It is at this bright red line that persons with gender variance divide themselves from transsexuals. This is never an issue of validity, but always an issue of deeper understanding of both conditions.

I do see congruence as the heart of the matter. What I see happening repeatedly to people in transition, however, is that they change during that period significantly to becoming the women they are, if you don't mind the characterization. It shows up in more rational presentation (typically), but more importantly in changes in attitudes, communication style, and relationships. In a hundred things, big and small.

Pre-op transition is obviously not the achievement of full congruence, but there are many types of congruence. Hormonal & emotional congruence are obvious ones, but simply living in the open as yourself is a type of congruence itself. I see material psychological and motive differences between one who wishes to live openly as a crossdresser versus someone whose identity is female.

Because I see many congruence issues - noting that like SRS, things like hormones and FFS are also physical - and also because I perceive social transition to be the larger barrier for most people, I'm reluctant to endorse your gender variant concept. I've read too many times of transsexuals' own views of SRS changing during transition. Many times it's expressed as did you - a completion. But it is often delayed or even foregone, apparently with little issue. There are also those who describe their transitions as ongoing, even post-SRS.

All things equal, I agree with your comments on relative urgency. Regardless of urgency, though, most transsexuals reportedly do not undergo SRS, yet are regarded by their healthcare providers and in the medical literature as transsexual. As you pointed out, the literature addresses urgency, but does not place the transsexual line where you do, nor create the definition you propose.

All of this points to a complexity of considerations and on points of transition each one of which intersect differently with age considerations. Maybe it's better to ask about which points of transition an individual sees age as a problem, rather than asking a blanket question about age.

[Sandra1746]

I do like Lori's long post best of all since it applies best to me. However all the replies raise good points. I guess I kicked the discussion off, in a way, so I'll add a couple more items. First remember I stated I considered myself TG and did not feel a need to transition. Perhaps that is a disqualification but I don't think so.

I have several health issues and HRT would likely interfere with the treatment for these. These are age-related onset issues so "too old" in the physical sense applies. Also, I do heal more slowly now than I used to.

My wife is OK with me going out in Fem-casual. Today we went to the mall, I was dressed in fem shorts and a fem t-shirt with the usual jewelery and my purse. I also have shoulder-length hair. The only more-fem clothing I could have chosen would have been a skirt or dress. My wife would not be OK with that in public, but is OK at home. Having her as a best friend is of EXTREME importance to me, anything that would damage that is not worth the cost.

When I go out en-drab I wear slacks and a sport shirt. I don't get dressed up any more so doing an en-fem is only a small change; different shirt and slacks. Also, if you look at the women's clothing catalogs today many sell men's shirts for the women to wear. If it's the same shirt who can tell.

For those who have a real need to transition, I wish you all the best luck in the world on your journey. There are however a lot of different people here and everyone is different; we all choose different paths and destinations. You are competent to define your own journey but to tell another what they should do or how they should act is really presumptuous; IMHO.

Life is a journey, and a very personal one. Enjoy the ride.

Hugs,
Sandra1746

[Kaz]

Sandra, Lori,

Many thanks...great words and truly empathetic and understanding...

I feel the need to share a real life story that I hope serves as a metaphor...

I remember an old friend from University I kept in touch with... we both married our respective partners (he my best mand and I his) and we met up as 'couples' on weekends (as we lived in different parts of the country)... we had our first daughter... problems... she caused problems when going to pubs because she didn't like sitting still for hours... we kind of cooled a bit but kept the friendship/realtionship going. They had their first (daughter)... she would still for hours drinking lemonade while our first and then our second daughter continually got bored and life was one big continuing problem with thie friendship/relationship... so we drifted apart for a few years...

Then they had a son... we heard about his wife's depression and the problems they were having with this kid from hell....

So we invited them over as it it had now been a few years... and met this normal kid... not a kid from hell, a normal kid who was cool!

As they left, they said... now you know what we have had to put up with!

We thought... yeah... welcome to our reality...

I have some increasingly major age related issues. I am glad that our younger (and some older) peers don't, but then they don't share my reality. In fact, from many angry posts around here.. they won't even accept my reality, let alone try to understand it...

Oh.. if life was so black and white!

My 'friend' judged us as ineffective and weak parents for years, until he had a 'normal' kid.. then he reinterpreted the issue as having a problem child... so he successfully ignored the whole point and reconfirmed his own prejudices...

I have three fabulous daughters who are now grown up women (well they think they are!)... and I am too old to be prepared to do surgery and HRT just for a few more years of illusion...

I also am still required to bail them out at times and step in to solve crises... so I need a job that pays!

In my head, I am Kaz and female... but I now know that I always was... I just lived a different life... a good one and I did some good stuff... I don't regret it, but I do regret letting them down because of who I really am...

[LeaP]

I do like Lori's long post best of all since it applies best to me. However all the replies raise good points. I guess I kicked the discussion off, in a way, so I'll add a couple more items. First remember I stated I considered myself TG and did not feel a need to transition. Perhaps that is a disqualification but I don't think so.

I have several health issues and HRT would likely interfere with the treatment for these. These are age-related onset issues so "too old" in the physical sense applies. Also, I do heal more slowly now than I used to.

My wife is OK with me going out in Fem-casual. ... My wife would not be OK with ... Having her as a best friend is of EXTREME importance to me, anything that would damage that is not worth the cost.

... If it's the same shirt who can tell.

... You are competent to define your own journey but to tell another what they should do or how they should act is really presumptuous; IMHO.

This thread is about transition. Please refer to the first sentence in my OP. Moreover, I posted it in the Transsexual Forum.

Anyone is free to reply, I'm just not sure why someone who is not transsexual would. What relevance are your comments on your personal situation and health as it relates to transition if you are not transsexual and never planned to transition? (You describe yourself as TG and with no need to transition.) I don't mean this offensively, I just don't get it. I might accept it as a theoretical, using your health, for example, to illustrate a point (which was well-taken). Fine, but then why go to supposed issues of attitude, e.g., people's presumption in telling other people what they should do?

I can only infer the topical content in some of your other comments. Are you implying, for example, that your marriage relationship and your wife's limited forbearance are of greater value because of your age or the passage of time? If so, should I extend that reasoning to others ... Or would that be presumptuous? I REALLY don't understand the relevance of the clothing point with the shirt.

Help me out here, because I must be missing something. I asked about transition age objections in the OP. What I got from transsexuals is that age is irrelevant. What I got from non-transsexuals - on a question that only is applicable TO transsexuals - was a certain outrage.

[Kaz]

I apologise for posting... I really did not wish to offend... but here we go again with categories... to you I am not TS... I am trying to say that it is not that simple... I am happy to butt out of this community if that is the feeling of the community. I am so so sorry to have offended you. I just have gender issues that border on the suicidal... thanks.