Im Sorry but

[Karren H]

The admin here do a great job of maintaining control... As a past moderator/jr admin on another forum I know things can and will spiral out of control. And its a lot of work to maintain this site. they do it for free... Personally you couldn't pay me enough to do that here. To me this site is entertaining at the least and at best you can learn a few things and make some friends... Not many public forums will let you talk about anything you want... Even facebook will ban your a$$ if you say F*#k too many time. Lmao. It is what it is and whining about it isn't going to do anything... Imho.

[EllieOPKS]

Expressing your opinions should be allowed but aren't totally and I understand that. Someone saying its for the good and peace of mind of the GG's that read the forum gag me, come on really? The biggest dislike I have to the forum is that it is public so all the trolls in the world - GG & GM can enjoy an exhibition. That being said, I enjoy the people and personalities that come through on this board and I've actually picked up a few friends along the way.
I have always believed that if you don't like fishing from the back of a boat then buy your own boat. Instead of starting my own forum, I'll just play by the rules of this one.

[BRANDYJ]

Someone saying its for the good and peace of mind of the GG's that read the forum gag me, come on really?

So what are you saying? That it's OK to talk explicitly about sex in the presents of women. Where I was raised and how and when I was raised, we treated women with more respect then to talk dirty around them.

Yes, I am a very sexual being, a crossdresser, yet I am still very much a gentleman. Especially in the presents of women. It's sad that I notice chivalry is dying among our younger generation now a days. Very sad.

[Frédérique]

So crossdressing is only about the wearing of clothes of the other gender??

[SIZE="2"]The term “crossdressing” contains the word dressing, so it is definitely about wearing the clothes of the other gender, crossing over, as it were, to the theoretical other side. What you do when you get there is up to the individual, of course. You could skip the MtF dressing and be effeminate in all but appearance, but, in that case, you wouldn’t need to be a member of THIS discussion forum, since you wouldn’t be a crossdresser...
[/SIZE]

What then is, as a male, wanting to try to look like a woman, wanting to experience things a woman may feel emotionally, physically and the wish to experience what a woman may feel during intimacy. Walking arm in arm, the hug the kiss the ,,,,,,,,,,of being with someone that you want to be with.

[SIZE="2"]IMHO, you can do this without dressing. However, I submit that a male who dresses as a woman already has, in place, these emotional proclivities you are referring to, and the crossdressing is merely an expression of a deeper, more hidden truth...[/SIZE]

Have not members here also stated they would love their SO to be intimate with them when they are still dressed......does this mean they are not crossdressers too but maybe lesbians. Everybody has their own ideas as to what extent their crossdressing will go. What they want to look like, what they want to wear, and whether they want to be intimate with a man or woman or both, or not. This is not just a heterosexual thing. If your idea of crossdressing is the impersonation of a woman then fine but please stop ridiculing the ones that want their experiences to go farther and a little more out there than what you would do.

[SIZE="2"]From my perspective, nearly ALL of the discussion in this section of the forum revolves around sexuality – there is endless “talk” about SO’s, homosexuality vs. heterosexuality, and the need for some sort of sexual release via the “wrong” clothes. With that in mind, it’s useful to realize that there are some people here who bypass the sexual train wrecks and head straight for some kind of personal atmosphere of pleasure. Since I don’t dress for sexual reasons, I state my case along those lines, perhaps trying to cloud the issue at hand, or maybe get crossdressing a few inches removed from the arena of sexual perversion where society has unfairly placed us...

As for this idea of being intimate with your SO (I presume you mean a female) whilst dressed, I see this as an obvious possibility, under the circumstances, but how many females would allow such an event to occur? I mean, if a SO wanted you to be a MAN, or her idea of a man, how likely is it that she will suddenly shift gears and “play” lesbian for the purposes of YOUR fantasy? I know this happens, but it seems rather far-fetched to me. If your faithful SO has any interest in this FF role play, why doesn’t she just go out and get herself a real lesbian? I mean, perhaps she wishes to express her own subsumed desires and call the shots for a change. Also, what a woman “feels” during intimacy is anyone’s guess, and she is loath to disclose her secrets – you may get close, in your mind, but you may find that you can never quite reach that far shore... [/SIZE]

[suchacutie]

"Crossdressing" covers an immensely broad array of activities and mindsets. Regardless of which part of the spectrum any of us belongs to, the activity encompasses a huge number of issues from the mechanics of generating the illusion to the physical aspects to the psychological aspects to the emotional aspects to the sexual aspects. On top of that are the interpersonal aspects...oh the list just goes on forever!

That's a lot of ground to cover. Here, I've been impressed with the decorum with which even some of the most difficult issues can be discussed. Ok, there have been a few rants on occasion, but they have been minimal. I'm impressed by the commitment of the members here to helping ourselves and each other as we try to understand ourselves (both of our gendered selves).

I'm one of the bi-gendered folks here, where both gendered selves are very important to me. I could live in either gender for a period of time, but would not be able to lose either gender. I'm so grateful to the moderators for keeping the focus here on an informative and almost intellectual level, and almost always a civil level

[Lyndaloves]

Thanks to all that responded, I have heard and read all the responses and don't get me wrong I love everyones posts, pictures and adventures, and love being here.
But when someone posts a picture they are happy and proud of and gets 10 replies of which 5 or 6 of them just jump on them saying as to I would never dress like that and its disrespectful to women and all these pics say is that all women are sl##### and their post should get deleted then I have a problem with it. Respect for women, I was also raised the same and am only a few years younger than you, so I was kind of hearing .....in my days long ago we walked 10 miles to school bare foot in -30 degree temps......
From years ago I was reminded of Thumper's mom when she said............if you can't say anything nice about someone then don't say anything at ALL.
If you don't like the way someone dresses keep it to yourself or the next up and coming beauty queen that posts a picture of herself in a tiny skinny minidress may take it personally and painfully and leave altogether.
Enough said from me about this, I think my point of this thread is clear.
Luvs
Lynda

[ReineD]

But when someone posts a picture they are happy and proud of and gets 10 replies of which 5 or 6 of them just jump on them saying as to I would never dress like that and its disrespectful to women and all these pics say is that all women are sl##### and their post should get deleted then I have a problem with it.

Lynda, try looking at ALL the posts in the Gallery, with ALL of the responses. You'll find that the vast majority are positive and supportive. Please don't look at a few posts that may criticize the picture and tell yourself they form the majority of the responses on this board.

We have had discussions about "theoretical" looks, for example the "street-walker" look vs. the clothing that the majority of GGs wear in the mainstream. These discussions are more in line with a Cder's attempt at blending in and not being read. Also you need to understand that everyone has a different mental image when they engage in these discussions. It is likely that the people who object to the sl*tty look have as a mental image an extreme look that You would Not even consider wearing to go to the grocery store for example, such as these looks:

http://www.ntnews.com.au/images/uplo...ball_after.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-irQVJ4NpS2...640/hook11.jpg

Also, if a CDer likes to dress this way in private and he says so when posting a picture in the Gallery, he will not get criticized since it is well understood here that in private, anything goes. But, if the CDer says he wants to go out in public looking like this (and it is not a nightclub where such clothing is more acceptable than in grocery stores), he will get comments from concerned members warning him that he will likely be read as a CDer if he does.

So it's important to put things in the proper context when you read discussions or look at comments to pictures.

[StarrOfDelite]

Lynda, try looking at ALL the posts in the Gallery, with ALL of the responses. You'll find that the vast majority are positive and supportive. Please don't look at a few posts that may criticize the picture and tell yourself they form the majority of the responses on this board.

We have had discussions about "theoretical" looks, for example the "street-walker" look vs. the clothing that the majority of GGs wear in the mainstream. These discussions are more in line with a Cder's attempt at blending in and not being read. Also you need to understand that everyone has a different mental image when they engage in these discussions. It is likely that the people who object to the sl*tty look have as a mental image an extreme look that You would Not even consider wearing to go to the grocery store for example, such as these looks:

http://www.ntnews.com.au/images/uplo...ball_after.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-irQVJ4NpS2...640/hook11.jpg

Also, if a CDer likes to dress this way in private and he says so when posting a picture in the Gallery, he will not get criticized since it is well understood here that in private, anything goes. But, if the CDer says he wants to go out in public looking like this (and it is not a nightclub where such clothing is more acceptable than in grocery stores), he will get comments from concerned members warning him that he will likely be read as a CDer if he does.

So it's important to put things in the proper context when you read discussions or look at comments to pictures.

Reine,

Thanks for the great pix! Are those gender women or transgenders?

Anyway, great post, except when you say that people will tell posters don't go out that way you will get read as a CD'er, you probably in fairness should say that if a crossdresser goes to a typical suburban mall on a Saturday afternoon wearing high heels, a 1950's calf length skirt, a lacy silk blouse, hose with seams perfectly aligned in rear, and a pill-box hat she will also get read very quickly. I suspect there might be a lot more board members who are "into" that particular sort of fetish dress than the ones who want to look like streetwalkers, but a lot of them seem not to want to hear the message that this is not the way genetic women dress in 2012. Come to think of it, the last time I went to a suburban mall there were lots of people dressed like streetwalkers, the technical term for them is teenaged girls.

[ReineD]

Anyway, great post, except when you say that people will tell posters don't go out that way you will get read as a CD'er, you probably in fairness should say that if a crossdresser goes to a typical suburban mall on a Saturday afternoon wearing high heels, a 1950's calf length skirt, a lacy silk blouse, hose with seams perfectly aligned in rear, and a pill-box hat she will also get read very quickly.

Women today, in most malls in the US, do dress very casually. So yes, anyone who dresses like this:

http://cdn.glamcheck.com/fashion/fil...shion-look.jpg

will get stared at, and not because it is a sl*tty outfit. If a CDer (or a GG) wears a wedding gown, a ball gown, or a bathing suit in a mall he or she will get stared at as well. And, we all know that the longer someone stares at a CDer, the greater the chance he will get read, no matter how perfect are the wig and the makeup.

But the discussions that I think Lynda was referring to was specifically the sl*tty look vs. the non-sl*tty look. I tried to place this in context for her.

[Kaz]

Great posts that have got me thinking a lot. I am coming back to why I am here... to share, to learn and to develop... there is a time and a place to look sl*tty... and it it probably isn't in a shopping mall...? We share not only opinions but experiences, and the knowledge we have gained from those experiences and hopefully the reflection and insight from this forum that we can synthesise into who we are etc. If I go out I want to pass, if that is at all possible... to do that I need to conform to normal expectations... otherwise I will stand out and be noticed as 'different'... No problem with that if that is what we want... but if we do we need to understand the consequences...

I think Reine was 100% on target as usual!

[Kendappa]

I keep getting the idea of this forum just being for the Stepford Wives kind of group, where everyone has to be dressed the same for the ball and at home, make cakes and cookies in their cutest dress and apron............and no opinion except if it matches everyone elses..............and no sex.Lynda

That sounds wonderful! jk
I think crossdressing is more than just wearing clothes of the opposite gender. For each of us it takes on its own meaning. Its fun to read the variety of opinions about what is or is not crossdressing. ~K

[kimdl93]

Personally, I havefound a broad range of motivations among our members. Some may indeed dress to emulate a woman while others dress to express some innner femininity.

[EllieOPKS]

BrandyJ I agree that explicit sexual discussions are not appropriate for a public forum. My point being if the forum was private people could speak more openly and not use childish terms if commenting about sexual content. Sexual content is an inevitable component of cross dressing. Thinking a forum is an oasis for a GG who has a cross dressing family member is misleading in my opinion. If people want to be counselors there are certification and graduate programs for that.

[ReineD]

My point being if the forum was private people could speak more openly and not use childish terms if commenting about sexual content. Sexual content is an inevitable component of cross dressing.

What childish terms are you referring to? We talk about everything here, all sexual orientations including autoeroticism with or without props. If you think the term "props" is childish, you visit this forum at 1 AM when someone goes into graphic detail about the props and the ecstasy over having used them, or graphic descriptions of sex with men or women, to set off a chain reaction among other members who each contribute to the thread in greater detail with their own versions of fantasy because they're awake and alone sitting in front of the monitor thinking about sex, and which completely derails the thread and the content that the OP wanted to discuss to begin with.

And then you can also stop editing any threads at all, plus the posts in the Meeting Place from new members who are here looking for sex, and the CDers wanting to first post pics of their butts and crotches, which then invites others to post pics of their erections. After a few months this forum would have an entirely different flavor. Or do you think the term "erection" is childish too and would you prefer "hard on".

So tell me about "childish" terms, and tell me where YOU'D draw the line. If you don't like it here, there are plenty of forums out there tailored specifically for the type of posts that you might rather see.

[Sandra]

BrandyJ I agree that explicit sexual discussions are not appropriate for a public forum. My point being if the forum was private people could speak more openly and not use childish terms if commenting about sexual content. Sexual content is an inevitable component of cross dressing. .

There is private sections for this it doesn't have to be in the open forum. Most of the TG community want acceptance from Joe Public, well Joe Public reading the MtF and reading about how so and so wants this done to them by so and so, ain't gonna make the acceptance easy.

[BRANDYJ]

Bravo to both Sandra and RieneD! Very well put!

[Janet77]

Late to the party, but will add my 2 cents:
I am relatively new here and have had a few of my early posts deleted due to too-racy content. It was frustrating for me at first, but the moderators were kind enough to explain the reasons for the deletions, and I eventually got a better sense of this site's vibe. Since this board is free, it is only fair that the owners and their representatives (mods) make the rules, and they clearly don't want explicit content. I think that's reasonable. if you want to get nasty, you can always PM your favorite member and/or take it offline.

[janet54]

To this I feel what is needed is respect for every member here. No matter what. Brandy, Sandra, Reine are so right. There are rules here just follow them. I you want a meat market then just go find one.

[JulieK1980]

I think there is a fine line between talking explicitly about sex, and discussing sexuality. While explicit sex discussions are against the rules, (and rightfully so IMO) and the mods do an amazing job here at keeping this forum clean, I also see where the OP is coming from. Some members here do have a tendency to pass judgement on others. Heck I've been told outright that my marriage was going to fail because I opened up when asked about the alternative relationship I'm in. lol I highly recommend using the ignore button here, as the negativity lies in only a small handful of people. The reality is many of us come from very different backgrounds, and very different upbringings of what is appropriate and what isn't, and that is bound to cause some friction. Just try to take the negative with a grain of salt.

[Babeba]

It is entirely possible to talk about one's sex life on this board and what dressing does to detract from it or enhance it without using a lot of descriptive adjectives designed to titillate and elicit a reaction. There are quite a lot of members who manage to keep things civil and not out of control when they talk about sexual topics.

I don't think anyone is a) trying to suppress another person's identities or b) trying to put another person down for the sexual activities and orientation they hold. I just don't need a peephole into your bedroom, and you do not need one into mine. If someone were to come onto this board and give the sort of detail that a new GG member does about her relationship, and that person happened to be the GM partner of a CD, I would speak to him from the same place as I would a GG. Likewise, if a CD member talks about issues in regards to his male partner, I would also treat that the same way.

Reine, I don't think Lynda was implying that there is anything wrong with 50s clothes - they are fab, after all! - she was reiterating the impression she has gained from the site that one type of crossdresser can sometimes seem to be more highly valued here.

That type is the heterosexual, non-fetish, passable, discreet, church-going, married, suburban, 2.4 children, middle-class who also passes as her wife's dashing husband in front of the neighbours kids and congregation and most importantly, in bed. It can sometimes feel like the site is far more for reassurance of wives and girlfriends than for the psychological and emotional support of mtf crossdressers!

How do you feel more explicit sexual 'talk' on this site will help emotionally and psychologically support MTF crossdressers? Just for curiosity's sake. What need is not currently being met by your experience here? (This question isn't just for Rachel, it's for all the MTF crossdressers!)

[Miriam-J]

I finally found the time to look through this thread in earnest, and find it to be a very nice exploration of the forum's purpose. I don't know if you intended to open this whole can of worms, Lynda, but I'm glad you did. I think most of your very valid points have been debated quite well already, but let me add a little bit from my perspective.

For me, crossdressing is about the freedom to express myself in whatever appearance I'd like - despite a society that tends to enforce traditional expectations for men in this area. As Reine and others have pointed out quite effectively, there are a lot of interests represented here, and many of those interests are quite different from my own. I may not understand all the other approaches to crossdressing, and I may not even want to hang out with those expressing some of those approaches, but I feel that I have to respect their freedom.

Unfortunately, not everyone is as accommodating of everyone else's freedom and dignity, and we inevitably see that expressed here now and then. Once again we find that reality differs from what "should be". If it's particularly spiteful, the person expressing the negative views will generally be shouted down by others, but usually it's just ignored. Feel free to do the same.

Miriam

[Samantha_Smile]

There are so many posts that I have wanted so badly to jump in on and express my opposite to most opinions but have kept quiet but
I am sorry I've got to know

So crossdressing is only about the wearing of clothes of the other gender??
Kinda just impersonating a woman then.

What then is, as a male, wanting to try to look like a woman, wanting to experience things a woman may feel emotionally, physically and the wish to experience what a woman may feel during intimancy. Walking arm in arm, the hug the kiss the ,,,,,,,,,,of being with someone that you want to be with.
Have not members here also stated they would love their SO to be intimate with them when they are still dressed......does this mean they are not crossdressers too but maybe lesbians.
Everybody has their own ideas as to what extent their crossdressing will go. What they want to look like, what they want to wear, and wheather they want to be intimate with a man or woman or both, or not. This is not just a hetrosexual thing. If your idea of crossdressing is the impersonation of a woman then fine but please stop rediculing the ones that want their experiences to go farther and a little more out there than what you would do.

I keep getting the idea of this forum just being for the Stepford Wives kind of group, where everyone has to be dressed the same for the ball and at home, make cakes and cookies in their cutest dress and apron............and no opinion except if it matches everyone elses..............and no sex.
If you don't like it don't look or read it
If this upsets everyone then so be it, ban me then for not always agreeing with everyone. As was said in another thread its what I like, its about being me!!
Lynda

I know what youre getting at.
There's a strong vein of 'the collective thought' in here, I will state it like it's my opinion, but really I know that it's just what will get approval from the majority.
It could just be that the frequent posters here have the exact mentality that the rules allow, and so their voices seem loudest, but I'm skeptical, always am, about this and many other things.

Now, the stepford wives thing, again, I totally see what you mean... Again!
There seems to be this idea on here that because we've done our best to dress to impress, that there is no way on earth that we may even possibly become aroused.
Sure, if we do then we never post about it/go into detail about it, but even hinting seems to be deemed un-civilised.
Let me just clear something up, we CD. But were still human! And even real women speak with tongues firmly in their cheeks about their more intimate moments, so what's the difference?
Is it because we are after all on a forum, which is a little impersonal I admit, but to many this place is a life line, a sole means of communication with other CDs/TVs.
That said, a little 'tongue in cheek' should be allowed IMO, just my opinion mind.

There should be a clamp down on people directly or indirectly looking for 'dressed sex' with others on here though,
this is the one place you can fall back on when everywhere else is so focused on a fetishistic, sexually charged path in CDing.
For those of us who dont dress with a sexual motivation, this is good. We just want to feel pretty.
But don't censor the place to PG13 either.

[stephygirl]

Well.. Its all up for debate. We all have our own views of women hood. Some of us have a void, which needs to be filled. As radical as having sex with another guy (or gal) while en femme. It should be case by case. To define a cross dresser has to have some sort of category.. There are some men who dress as women because they feel like they are born into the wrong body.
Some love the thrill of dressing up.
Some are just confused.
Some do it just for sexual pleasure.

The act of having sex is something that should be done with two people who are close. I give high respects who find love and feel comfortable having intimate relations with anybody. Even guys(girls) who treat it as a fetish i have respect because they share their secret. I feel like we should not critize anybody on this website.

I have not been on this forum for long but i feel like the community should be more open to other lifestyle of Crossdressing. Simply because there are alot of differnt beliefs.. I agree with you Lynda 200% you go girl

always loving
Steph

[busker]

There are so many posts that I have wanted so badly to jump in on and express my opposite to most opinions but have kept quiet but
I am sorry I've got to know

So crossdressing is only about the wearing of clothes of the other gender??
Kinda just impersonating a woman then.

What then is, as a male, wanting to try to look like a woman, wanting to experience things a woman may feel emotionally, physically and the wish to experience what a woman may feel during intimancy. Walking arm in arm, the hug the kiss the ,,,,,,,,,,of being with someone that you want to be with.
Have not members here also stated they would love their SO to be intimate with them when they are still dressed......does this mean they are not crossdressers too but maybe lesbians.
Everybody has their own ideas as to what extent their crossdressing will go. What they want to look like, what they want to wear, and wheather they want to be intimate with a man or woman or both, or not. This is not just a hetrosexual thing. If your idea of crossdressing is the impersonation of a woman then fine but please stop rediculing the ones that want their experiences to go farther and a little more out there than what you would do.

I keep getting the idea of this forum just being for the Stepford Wives kind of group, where everyone has to be dressed the same for the ball and at home, make cakes and cookies in their cutest dress and apron............and no opinion except if it matches everyone elses..............and no sex.
If you don't like it don't look or read it
If this upsets everyone then so be it, ban me then for not always agreeing with everyone. As was said in another thread its what I like, its about being me!!
Lynda

well, that is the basic definition but one that rarely seems to apply. The problem comes in when all the psychological baggage gets added in and then it turns into a whole encyclopedia of gender things. If I wore a army uniform, I would simply be imitating a person in the military without actually being one--a kind of occupational crossdresser if you will. But, once people are into "feelings", "testing the waters" and "male attraction", this practice becomes so much more than simple "Crossdressing". Most of the fetishists are pretty up-front about their reasons, but a lot of folks swirl around the edges of the tub when it comes to call what they do "crossdressing". Obviously, those that cross the line and get SRS are in a different place altogether, even if they began as crossdressers. Having sex with your wife while dressed is certainly moving out into the solar system of dressing. Married dressers flirting with other males and looking for attention is certainly moving out more towards the edge of the universe near Uranus. Some are from Venus, some are from Mars, but few are from Earth. We are all just visitors here.

[ReineD]

Now, the stepford wives thing, again, I totally see what you mean... Again!
There seems to be this idea on here that because we've done our best to dress to impress, that there is no way on earth that we may even possibly become aroused.
Sure, if we do then we never post about it/go into detail about it, but even hinting seems to be deemed un-civilised.

Who stops you from stating, in any post, that you become aroused by the CDing? And what makes you believe that others haven't said this? Everyone knows that a lot of CDers do this for fetish. Also, just because there are other members here who no longer become aroused by the CDing like they did when they were your age does not mean they are Stepford Wives. And guess what! It's going to happen to you too, eventually.

But don't censor the place to PG13 either.

Please go back and read posts #39 and #40. Here's a link: http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...=1#post2860176

And I'll repeat. If you don't get what this site is about and why it is different than the other sites, then just go elsewhere. No one is stopping you.