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Thread: It’s all Greek to me

  1. #1
    Complex Lolita...
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    It’s all Greek to me

    [SIZE="2"]“Parts of mythology are religious, parts of mythology are historical, parts of mythology are poetical, but mythology as a whole is neither religion nor history, nor philosophy, nor poetry. It comprehends all these together under that peculiar form of expression which is natural and intelligible at a certain stage, or at certain recurring stages in the development of thought and speech, but which, after becoming traditional, becomes frequently unnatural and unintelligible.” (Max Müller)

    How many of you are familiar with the myth of Hermaphroditus? Recently, on a whim, I got a book out of the local library that is all about the many Gods and Goddesses of Greece and Rome, in fact that is the title. Before I looked too closely at it I showed it to my sister (who knows I crossdress) – she skimmed through it, but abruptly stopped at a particular page. “Hey, look...” she said, “Hermaphroditus!” I told her I know all about the mythical boy/girl, in fact it’s one of the few myths I am familiar with, thanks to the highly entertaining Genesis song “The Fountain of Salmacis.”

    Hermaphroditus was the son of Hermes and (love goddess) Aphrodite – his name is a symbolic combination of the two. When he was 15 years old he set out to travel the world – on his journey he found himself in a mystical forest. Coming to a hidden pool, he encountered the nymph Salmacis, who instantly fell in love with the boy. However, he rejected her. As he began to swim in the pool, Salmacis threw herself upon him and hugged him so tightly that they merged together into one androgynous body – both male and female. Obviously, this is the origin of the word hermaphrodite, but the myth is a none-too-subtle cautionary tale about gender roles in ancient Greece. According to the book I’m reading (The contributor is James M. Redfield):

    “For the Greeks, gender differences prefigured social differences. People believed that men reached their perfect condition as philosopher-king while women achieved this state through marriage. Furthermore, men were in charge of government while women asserted their powers in the home and through the performance of certain rituals. Any variance from these rules – for instance, a cowardly man or a woman in authority – challenged the social and cosmic order. A creature belonging to both sexes was, therefore, profoundly threatening to this way of thinking.”

    Sounds like nowadays, doesn’t it? Tell me - what’s so bad about androgyny? Mr. Redfield again:

    “To say that the Greeks were afraid of anyone who merged the characteristics of male and female does not explain why people worshipped Hermaphroditus and represented him/her in their works of art. One reason for honoring him/her was that he or she represented in extreme form what people could aspire to only moderately. The extreme aspect of Hermaphroditus also suggests why people worshipped him or her alongside Pan, the god of the wild countryside, and the river god Achelous – fertile, erratic, and sometimes dangerous figures that evoked the powers of nature.”

    Androgyny was an important part of Greek society, and it was often played out in annual rituals where males dressed as females. Is this because everyone feared the consequences of a union between male and female characteristics, so they sought a way to defuse these natural urges? In my mind, ancient Greece must have been an idyllic place where environment, sensibilities, and burgeoning human awareness merged, and some profound questions were being asked by a few intrepid individuals. Is it any wonder that androgyny was seen as something attractive, as well as destructive? Right at the time when the genders could have been woven together into a beautiful tapestry, society intervened and created the imaginary line that we, as males, must NOT cross if humanity is to survive...

    As such, the myth of Hermaphroditus was created to warn everyone (especially young males) about the dangers that lurk in the (seemingly) dark forest of the soul. A myth is a traditional story of unknown authorship, ostensibly with a historical basis, but serving usually to explain some phenomenon of nature, the origins of man, or the customs, institutions, or religious rites of a people. In the case of our intrepid mythical hero, his or her androgyny can be explained by his alleged “wrong turn,” away from his birth gender, into the arms of effeminacy (in the form of a nymph). That explains it – he was lured away, against his will, and his own hidden desires had nothing to do with it. This begs the question: “Who is afraid of the powers of nature?” Perhaps SHE (nature) is being ignored, and androgyny is supposed to occur freely and naturally...

    Why was this myth created in the first place? I’m guessing that any male who willfully wishes to incorporate feminine characteristics into his persona will become theoretically less useful to society, since males are expected to do certain MALE things. If one wishes to embrace female compassion, how willing will he be to fight for his community’s honor or way of life? What will happen to government if our androgynous he/she would rather frolic in the natural world he/she came from? Most importantly, what will happen to the house of cards that society is based upon if a person seeks a union along gender lines, thus dissipating the “rift” that supports the imaginary façade? No, you CANNOT turn away from being male, because everyone is depending on you. Hermaphroditus warns us to stay away from the “pool” where he underwent his transformation – the message (via the myth) is clear: don’t let what happened to me happen to you, for I am neither one thing nor the other, and thus not useful to anyone or any purpose...

    And yet, people worship what they cannot attain, getting further and further away from that blessed “oneness” that beckons to us. I think MtF crossdressers can gain a lot of insight from this ancient mythology of androgyny, and maybe comfort themselves that is has never been easy to cross the gulf between the genders. Truth be told, it may NEVER get any easier, since we all represent a threat to civilization – if we give in to the powers of nature bad things will inevitably happen, at least that’s what everybody says or thinks, and THEY wish to preserve life as they know it. This is where it all began, in someone’s head, many centuries ago, and we are still the shunned, the put-upon, the unmentionable, and the “weeds” in the garden of humanity. But, if you ask me, we crossdressers are simply doing something that comes naturally, a form of questioning that seeks an answer, yearning for a feeling of closure that somehow opens up the “real” world. I say don’t deny your calling, and embrace your other “self” tightly – in other words, come together, in the truest sense of the word...

    Is your crossdressing upsetting the “cosmic” order of things? That may very well be a MYTH...

    Don’t forget that (MtF) crossdressing, as well as androgyny, is an extremely valid phenomenon of nature - it goes WAY back! By “wearing your inside out” you can become a hybrid being. Take a dip in the pool, and please don’t be afraid - I'll meet you in the forest...
    [/SIZE]

  2. #2
    Gold Member Marleena's Avatar
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    Thanks for the lesson in Greek Mythology that I never did grasp and still really don't Freddy. It does provide proof that our kind were present way back when.

    Nice read and educated me as well!

  3. #3
    My Ship has sailed? Barbara Ella's Avatar
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    While I may not be profoundly impacting the cosmic karma. I do hope each of us makes a ripple in the pool. If enough of us join Freddy in there ripples can be additive and we could potentially create that tsunami that would impact the cosmos.

    Remember, however that waves can also be subtractive when out of phase, and then the ripples disappear, and all activities merely serve to satisfy the individual who exerts the effort.

    My question from this then, is how do we all get our dips into the pool in phase to be additive.

    Barbara
    He (she) who would learn to fly one day must first learn to stand and walk and run and climb and dance.
    - Friedrich Nietzche -
    I may never get to fly like the other girls, but I do so want to dance, so I continue to climb.

  4. #4
    Senior Member mikiSJ's Avatar
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    Thanks Frederique

    For an even more interesting trip through BCE Greek history, pick up a copy of the dialogues of Plato, Aristotle and Socrates (don't get the Cliff Notes). Fortunately, in many, many respects we have come a very long way.

    Miki

  5. #5
    Jayme jayme357's Avatar
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    Does anyone know where I can find a nymph?

  6. #6
    CamilleLeon's SO Shananigans's Avatar
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    Ancient mythology is quite interesting.

    Though, in the past, we had to explain natural phenomenon with myths and legends. We are wiser now. (Well, some are wiser now).

    What I see is continued growth in our society for acceptance of all types of people. Most people are well aware of intersexed people now that we understand genetics. The Greeks did not understand genetics, so I'm sure a myth was their way of understanding things. We also have TG rights now...books on understanding transsexuals...websites for people to meet. Hell, multiple times a month I get emails from LGBT about some crap they are doing. It's no longer revolutionary because people of the younger generations see it all as a non-issue.

    There's a lot of coverage in the trans community now, and it has been pretty beneficial. I won't be at all surprised if in a few years, you tell someone you are TG and people shrug, or tell you 100 other people they know that are TG. I know the gay community is reaching that point because I tell people my age that I am bi and I get a stare like, "And....sooooo...."

    I will say I'm not 100% comfortable with my sexuality, but that's because I AM the one alienating myself.

    Wha non-crazy religious person under the age of 30 really finds you being TG truly offensive? And, where are you located? I'm in Birmingham, Alabama...my SO came out and has found support from all friends and his family. Everyone that knows I am bi has supported me. I had one crazy religious friend slap me for coming out...but, then apologized when she was sober. (Do not come out drunk).

    Why are we comparing ourselves to ancient myths that were use to describe things? Sure, they are interesting. But, are there real comparisons? Are people calling you an evil burden to society, or are you callin yourself that?

    I'm just saying FEAR kept my SO from coming out as TG. Then, he came out, got support, and found very few people cared beyond that point. I am sure he got questions out of curiosity/understanding...but, not hateful remarks that he was a burden to society.

    Who has told you this? How old are they? Do they still subscribe to ancient mythological beliefs themselves as their way of living life?
    "Today a young man [...] realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration...that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively...there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the Weather.”-Bill Hicks
    “What freedom men and women could have, were they not constantly tricked and trapped and enslaved and tortured by their sexuality! The only drawback in that freedom is that without it one would not be a human. One would be a monster.” East of Eden by Steinbeck

  7. #7
    Senior Member KellyJameson's Avatar
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    Androgyny threatens social cohesion by creating instability between its members.

    The gift of androgyny to the individual robs others of that individuals usefullness.

    The individual who by being androgynous is psychologically predisposed to be emotionally more self sufficent and less willing to earn entry into society by working toward common goals, particularly with the opposite sex.

    You see this conflict constantly on display here on the forum.

    A complete person is not a half person looking for their missing half in another.

  8. #8
    Member Carlene's Avatar
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    By "wearing your inside out you can become a hybrid being...................(a wonderfully crafted phrase). Thank you for it.

    Rather than a dip in the pool some prefer the subtle shades of a heavily canopied forest basking in a late afternoon sun shower...... Carlene

  9. #9
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    Now I understand the problem the Music Man had with Pool. He wanted to keep the young men of River City out of the pool!!!!

  10. #10
    Gold Member Cynthia Anne's Avatar
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    Very interesting Frederique! I took the plunge and found the water to be just fine! Sometimes one must go against the rules to keep the balance of there own sainty! Hugs!
    If you don't like the way I'm livin', you just leave this long haired country girl alone:

  11. #11
    Complex Lolita...
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    [SIZE="2"]I appreciate all the responses!

    Today I was having Crispix for breakfast, and my sister asked me if some of the quilted “flakes” were corn, and others rice, or were they in varying degrees of combination. “No...” I said, putting down my spoon, “They are hermaphroditic!” She stared at me. “They are 50-50 corn and rice, a perfect synthesis of the two grains, this making them hermaphroditic, albeit in a manufactured sense.” She kept staring at me. “You don’t often hear the word hermaphroditic in a sentence, do you?” I said, “Well, THAT was my chance!” I smiled, and she begrudgingly agreed...

    I was half-expecting someone to question why I was hauling a story about Hermaphroditus into the MtF crossdressing section, but nobody did. It (the myth) is not about dressing, it’s not really about being transgendered, but it IS about someone blending male and female characteristics together. That’s when I take notice. Many MtF crossdressers just wish to dress on occasion, but there are some of us who wish to modify our inherently male persona with female traits, and dressing is an efficient means to an end. When I first began to crossdress, I didn’t think it would have such a profound effect on my personality, but, over time, my male-ness was altered in pleasing ways. Of course, this latent feminine nature was already in my possession – I just hadn’t yet found the secret of unlocking it. In my case, a change to a less masculine way of being was willful and sought out with all due fervor, unlike the mythical boy in the pool who had it thrust upon him...

    This is not everyone’s goal when they dress up, but I know I’m not alone in this regard. I feel a kinship with anyone who seeks a synthesis of the genders, making a better human being by addition and subtraction – this is a slow process, to be sure, and it has taken me many years to achieve a modest level of success. Unfortunately, the real world does not wish to be peopled by those who use gender variance as an art form, so we are chastised and maligned via ignorance. I see this more as incorporation, and not being transgendered* per se – the latter (I assume) wishes to go from one gender to the other and stay there, while the non-TG MtF crossdresser is content to be less masculine, more feminine, and strike a balance between the two. I cannot do anything about the fact that I’m male, so my male characteristics will always be there, regardless of how I dress. If I am dressed in drab, my female characteristics are in evidence, and if I am dressed as a girl (or a woman), my male characteristics are still THERE, even though they have been thoroughly modified via mixture...

    My point to all this is that some of us MtF crossdressers are somewhat hermaphroditic by proxy – we have the characteristics of both genders, but not in a physical sense. As such, we are just as dangerous to society as Hermaphroditus allegedly was, so we are treated accordingly...

    *Don’t forget that "trans-" anything means going from one to the other, whereas a synthesis is the combination of parts to make a whole (a whole being, in this instance). Dressing helps to accomplish this blessed synthesis, and seemingly drastic measures are required to overcome HIM...
    [/SIZE]

  12. #12
    Gold Member Marleena's Avatar
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    Inspiration from a bowl of Crispix? That is different, would a whole grain cereal be allowed in your home now?

    You have such a creative mind Freddy!

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