Why are women's clothes so much better?

[busker]

We are social creatures, not quite herd animals but close, and that makes us extremely susceptible to manipulation by mass media advertising. I'm not much into the idea that women's clothes are desirable just because they're "women's" clothes. There are plenty of looks which are just plain ugly, and those include skirt/dress looks from the vintage era of the 40's/50's and 60's as well as Capri pants and thong sandals from the present day. I can remember what the 17 y.o. girls looked like in their crinoline and flared prom dresses in the 60's, and it wasn't a great scene at all. And, I've seen enough "mutton trying to look like lamb" outfits to make me wince, we've all seen the 55 y.o. 5'9", 235 pound linebacker lookalikes who insist on wearing leather miniskirts and long platinum blonde wigs. That wouldn't be stylish on a genetic woman, let alone on a CD.

Yes, especially the capri pants that are flared (like bell bottoms) and they look they were sized for a child or else they shrunk in the wash. Even Kim Novak couldn't make them look good.

[ReineD]

Starr, I totally agree. The standard of dress for both men and women has changed considerably beginning in the 60s, and few people today know how to dress. I dare say they can't afford it. I include myself in this. The main culprit is the declining purchase power of the dollar. Families in the 50s and 60s could survive on one salary. Now they need two.

I'm not much into the idea that women's clothes are desirable just because they're "women's" clothes. There are plenty of looks which are just plain ugly

Very true. My SO and I were looking at a clothing catalog tonight and there is not one thing that neither she nor I would buy. The clothes were colorful, but woefully out of date. There was an overabundance of gauze, flowers, and frill, in contrast with lime green and fushia pants and skirts that are limiting in terms of what they can be paired with. My SO told me that she has learned to keep her bottom pieces (pants & skirts) neutral and vary her tops, rather than to do the opposite. Much easier on the budget that way. Some of the clothes in that catalog (and in many other catalogs) were just plain ugly in their styling, cut, and color choice.

And, I've seen enough "mutton trying to look like lamb" outfits to make me wince, we've all seen the 55 y.o. 5'9", 235 pound linebacker lookalikes who insist on wearing leather miniskirts and long platinum blonde wigs. That wouldn't be stylish on a genetic woman, let alone on a CD.

Another great point. I see older CDers here wearing things that belong on younger, much slimmer girls that I wouldn't wear despite my being tall and a size 8 (I'm in my 50s). But, there is nothing wrong with dressing like this in private for their own enjoyment or for posting pics in the Gallery. Or even if they wear these things to CD support groups or TG friendly nightclubs. I'm sure if they ventured out in the mainstream, they'd dress more age appropriately.

[StarrOfDelite]

Another great point. I see older CDers here wearing things that belong on younger, much slimmer girls that I wouldn't wear despite my being tall and a size 8 (I'm in my 50s). But, there is nothing wrong with dressing like this in private for their own enjoyment or for posting pics in the Gallery. Or even if they wear these things to CD support groups or TG friendly nightclubs. I'm sure if they ventured out in the mainstream, they'd dress more age appropriately.

Reine. I could have been talking about genetic women with my description of the 55 y.o., 5-9, 235 pound linebacker in a leather miniskirt. I have, unfortunately, seen more than my share of real ladies wearing that type of clothing on the out-and-about, too!

I agree with you that so long as the person thus garbed is doing it for fetish reasons, e.g. a GNO at the local GLBT club, it's perfectly acceptable.

[Leila Be]

Materials. Colors. Fit. Transformation.

[Voulez-Vous]

It's been easier over the years to dress fully enfemme, rather than look like a man in a dress, when out and about.

I agree 100%. The man in a dress look is ridiculous.

[sometimes_miss]

Men don't need fancy garb; we're more defined by what we do, rather than how we look. That's well known; after all, when women find out we're crossdressers, even though we may be wearing men's attire at the time, their romantic interest in us usually goes way down.
Next, one reason that women's attire is so varied, is to give the visual clues that they are a different female than before; genetically, males are wired to want to have sex with as many different women as possible, and by appearing different, a woman gives the male the illusion of having sex with someone else. Sure, in reality when thinking normally he knows the difference, but our inner 'beast' just wants to have sex with a different woman each time, and in it's horny state of mind, doesn't discriminate very well. Hence the huge wardrobe women usually have in comparison to what a guy does.
And it's not that men don't want the choice; it's that we never even condsidered it, because it's not necessary to dress different from other men to be attractive to women. What do women find so attractive in men? A man in military uniform. Even when there's a whole room of guys dressed the same way. In contrast, lots of women feel uncomfortable when even one other woman is dressed exactly the same way she is at a social event.
As far as comfort; there are women's clothing that's comfortable. But lots of women want to make their bodies appear different from what they really look like, in order to appeal to a particular male, just more males in general, or even (the way we do) because she wants to feel better about herself. So, they are willing to put up with the discomfort necessary to do that, often instead of working out to lose weight or 'sculpt' their bodies, or instead of having surgery to alter her appearance. Same as using make up to make her eyes appear larger or further apart, or cause more contrast in skin tone. Heels are a particular sore point to me; I used to let any woman I was dating know that I'd be quite happy to have her wear sneakers instead of torturing her feet wearing heels.



Reine wrote:

Why do you present an avatar here that does not look like who you feel you are?

Because I don't want to feel old, fat, homely, I want to pretend that I'm cute, pretty, beautiful, and having an avatar that doesn't make me feel that way (especially in a 'feel good' forum like this one) is kind of counterproductive. Even women do the best they can, rather than just appear the way nature made them, to make you feel better about yourselves. You see elderly women all the time with dyed hair, nail polish, make up, who are just going to sit in a nursing home with no one who gives a damn what they look like. But it feels good, so they do it.
And

And believe it or not, there are also people on this planet who are far more aroused by someone's mind or their accomplishments than the frou-frou of modern fashion. Still, there are some very attractive females walking around campus in my town who are on a student budget wearing jeans and Tshirts. This doesn't seem to prevent college guys from chasing after them

We can see past the jeans and tee shirts, and know what's underneath. Few men care at all about fashion on their women, we want sexy, and that's defined initially by the shape of her body and we can usually tell what that looks like to some extent no matter what she's wearing. Also, if there's something about her that turns us off, such as for example extreme overweight or underweight, that's noticable too no matter what she's wearing. I wouldn't say we are far more aroused by their mind or accomplishments; very few men put those things as priorities, she still has to be in some way visually appealing before those two things become important at all. Without that, sex isn't going to happen, so we won't approach her anyway. Someone who's borderline attractive will become more so when she has other good attributes going for her; but someone who's repulsive to us isn't going to magically become attractive just because she has the classic 'great personality' or a list of accomplishments, no matter what she does or what she wears.

And a slight adjustment to Beverly128's response: I don't think female clothes are better, they just make me FEEL better.
And one last thing. A few years ago, I started dressing 'up'. Tossed away most of my jeans and khaki's, windbreakers and worn jackets. Bought some suits. Nice dress shirts. Good shoes. An expensive watch. And I noticed the change in how other people looked at me and treated me. It's become normal now; I had forgotten the difference it made. So no, I wouldn't say women's clothes are 'better'.

[Badtranny]

What do women find so attractive in men?.

I wish straight dudes would stop asking this question as if women are some kind of divine gift. Most guys I know should thank whatever God they pray to that some women might find them attractive because they sure don't put in the effort. My experience is that men who take care of themselves don't ask such questions. They know they look good and they know exactly why we think they're attractive. They might be douche bags but at least they're nice to look at.

I could easily ask what's so attractive about women. I've literally had to force myself into intimate relations with them back when I was a pathetic closet queen. Don't get me wrong, I loooooove my girls and any friend of mine will tell you the same, but women can't hold a candle to men when it comes to pure sexiness. Sure there are loads of hot chicks out there and sometimes I meet a woman who is so sexy she even makes me skip a breath but all things being equal, a big, ripped man would win every time over a gorgeous VS model. The last thing I want in my hands is anything soft.

[ReineD]

Reine wrote:

Why do you present an avatar here that does not look like who you feel you are?

Because I don't want to feel old, fat, homely, I want to pretend that I'm cute, pretty, beautiful,

Just to put this in the proper context, Donna had said that she doesn't feel she is a woman internally. I'm assuming she doesn't want to be one either. So I asked her (him?) why she presents as one in her avatar.

If you feel that you are a cute person internally (of if you want to be cute and pretty), then you should reflect this in your avatar.

A few years ago, I started dressing 'up'. Tossed away most of my jeans and khaki's, windbreakers and worn jackets. Bought some suits. Nice dress shirts. Good shoes. An expensive watch. And I noticed the change in how other people looked at me and treated me.

We all pigeonhole the people we see based on their initial appearance. The cues are numerous: age, general hygiene & grooming, style of clothes (whether someone presents as a biker, lawyer, or fashion designer), creativity (think art student compared to business major), ethnic cues, even height, weight, and physical attractiveness, degree of stylishness. All of these things form part of first impressions and it makes sense that people in general will be more open to others who present a positive and well groomed appearance than someone who doesn't care how they look. It is human nature, I believe, to respond to some sort of fuzzy social hierarchy.

I'm guessing this is why CDers generally want to present the best possible image of themselves in girl mode. I don't see a lot of CDers walking around dressed in slovenly girl's jeans, with torn and faded girl shirts and threadbare shoes, or a frumpy, shapeless dress. So I always wonder why so many CDers seem to sabotage themselves in guy mode when they don't pay equal attention to their male appearance. It almost seems a rebellion against being a guy to me. Or, maybe the CDers who do this don't care much about being guys?

[Bree-asaurus]

What do women find so attractive in men?.

That is one of the silliest questions I have ever heard, lol! You do know that sexual attraction is not something you choose... it's something you're born with. You know, the whole "being gay isn't a choice" deal and all that?

I wish straight dudes would stop asking this question as if women are some kind of divine gift. Most guys I know should thank whatever God they pray to that some women might find them attractive because they sure don't put in the effort. My experience is that men who take care of themselves don't ask such questions. They know they look good and they know exactly why we think they're attractive. They might be douche bags but at least they're nice to look at.

I could easily ask what's so attractive about women. I've literally had to force myself into intimate relations with them back when I was a pathetic closet queen. Don't get me wrong, I loooooove my girls and any friend of mine will tell you the same, but women can't hold a candle to men when it comes to pure sexiness. Sure there are loads of hot chicks out there and sometimes I meet a woman who is so sexy she even makes me skip a breath but all things being equal, a big, ripped man would win every time over a gorgeous VS model. The last thing I want in my hands is anything soft.

Yup... men who are attractive don't ask that question... they know they are attractive.

I totally know what you mean about forcing intimate relations with women, it was ALWAYS a chore. First guy I dated was super cool and wanted to make sure I had a good first time and OH SO GOOD it was! There's just no comparison. And I'm not just talking sex... I'm talking everything from initially meeting them, dating, making out and of course, the REALLY fun stuff I was never good at meeting women and flirting because I felt no need to accept the need to fit social norms. Meeting and flirting with guys, especially my current boyfriend was soooo easy, fun and full of butterflies!

Women are pretty... I can appreciate the beauty of a pretty woman... but men are just down right hawt!

But umm... back to cloths I guess... we got totally off track! Umm... Just saw Queer Eye for the Straight Guy for the first time last night... there's a perfect example of men's functional cloths vs. cloths that look dang good!

[Anna Lorree]

I'm guessing this is why CDers generally want to present the best possible image of themselves in girl mode. I don't see a lot of CDers walking around dressed in slovenly girl's jeans, with torn and faded girl shirts and threadbare shoes, or a frumpy, shapeless dress. So I always wonder why so many CDers seem to sabotage themselves in guy mode when they don't pay equal attention to their male appearance. It almost seems a rebellion against being a guy to me. Or, maybe the CDers who do this don't care much about being guys?

Exactly one of the things that I realized as I have learned/admitted that I'm not CD, but instead TS. I don't much care about my image as a man. Oh, I have tried being the dapper man who dresses nice and is well groomed. It felt even more foreign than just being a guy in Wranglers and Carhartts, so I quit. I have yet to find any male clothes that I care to take pride in like I do women's clothes. More importantly, I find very little about being a man in general that interests me. I don't fit the "guy" mold within our society.

Anna

[ReineD]

Good point Anna, and I can totally understand why a TS would want to invest as little attention as possible to a male presentation. But, we've had threads about why CDers neglect their male appearance in the past, and the general reason given, from self-identified CDers, is that "this is just what guys do".

So, could this be a litmus test for determining whether someone is TS or not? Sounds too simple. On the other hand, I can totally see a CDer (who perhaps is in a pink fog), be reluctant to spend any money on a guy appearance especially if his resources are limited. I dunno. I can even see a period where a CDer might be angry over having to repress this part of himself if his family is not accepting, and just refuse to look good in male mode out of principle?

[Megan_Renee]

Omg, I can't believe this is still going! Great conversation girls!

I like to try an experiment some times when I am in guy mode. I wear a nice sports coat and bow tie. Then I go to the store and shop a little. I often find that the other shoppers and sales people are nicer to me than when I wear jeans and a hoodie... Of course, that could be because I am in my thirties and lok homeless in a hoodie...

[Foxglove]

Good point Anna, and I can totally understand why a TS would want to invest as little attention as possible to a male presentation. But, we've had threads about why CDers neglect their male appearance in the past, and the general reason given, from self-identified CDers, is that "this is just what guys do".

So, could this be a litmus test for determining whether someone is TS or not? Sounds too simple.

Yes, Reine, I think it is too simple. There are plenty of cisgender guys who simply don't care about clothes. I'm TG and I don't care about male clothes. But I think I'm the type that even if I weren't TG, I still wouldn't care about male clothes.

On the other hand, I can totally see a CDer (who perhaps is in a pink fog), be reluctant to spend any money on a guy appearance especially if his resources are limited. I dunno. I can even see a period where a CDer might be angry over having to repress this part of himself if his family is not accepting, and just refuse to look good in male mode out of principle?

I think both of these are possibilities. In my case, I think it's possible I'm in something of a "reaction mode" right now. I'm looking after my feminine appearance these days, and I don't want to know anything about any sort of masculine stuff. And I think that to a certain extent it may be a matter of principle with me. I think that might be just a wee bit petty, but who can explain emotions?

Best wishes, Annabelle