Sick of Being Called "Sir" - Rant Warning

[Jamie001]

I consider myself to be a person this is a "third-gender" that is neither male or female however I consider my brain to be much more female than male. Like several other members on crossdressers.com, my presentation is basically that of a very feminine male. I usually wear a mix of male and female clothing, carry a women's purse, wear a very feminine hair style, usually wear Capri pants, very noticeable women's sandals (usually wedge heels), and bright red nail polish on my toenails. There is no doubt that I don't fit the normal male stereotype image so why do many males that I interact with call me "Sir"? I would much prefer just be to asked questions without the word "Sir" appended to the end of every question!

On more occasions than not when I go into a restaurant or other establishment that provides a service, male clerks/servers usually refer to me as "Sir". This is very demeaning and frustrating to me even to the point of making me angry. When I get angry, I have a very pissy attitude and if a tip is required for the service, I significantly reduce the amount of the tip regardless of the quality of the service. I know it is wrong, but it just affects me that way and I can't help it. It just rubs me the wrong-way.

In addition, I rarely have this problem of being called "Sir" by female clerks/servers and usually have excellent communication with them without feeling demeaned. It is so much better communicating with females. Maybe they understand that since I don't fit the male stereotype that I don't want to be addressed as "Sir". Female clerks/servers just seem to be more perceptive.

Why do many males feel that they must call a person "Sir"? It is interesting to note that these male clerks/servers call males "Sir" but 90 percent of the time they do not address GG females as "Mam". I don't understand their reasoning here. If you address all males as "Sir", then certainly you must address all females as "Mam".

Also, when you are in direct communication with a person (they are standing directly in front and making eye contact), there is no reason for them to suffix every sentence (especially questions) with the word "Sir"! For example, Would you like Salsa with that Sir? Would you like a carry-out container Sir? Anyway you get the idea.

I have another male friend that is not transgendered but he also is quite tired of constantly being addressed as Sir because he was taught when growing-up in the 60's that elders should be addressed as "Sir". He explained to me that being addresses as "Sir" makes him feel old. He is over 50 and is sensitive about his age and doesn't like to be reminded.

I would appreciate thoughts on this. Unfortunately there is no word in the English Language to address someone like myself that is "third gender". Why can't folks just speak to me and drop "Sir" suffix?

[Bree-asaurus]

It's a way of being polite that's engrained in our society and our limited definitions of gender. Sir for men, ma'am for women. Yeah... it's annoying if you're being called something you don't identify as but I don't think it's going to change anytime soon.

[Nicole Erin]

Yeah if you could presnt more of a femme image (if you are CD or TS) then that would change to "ma'am".
But yeah, I don't care for either.
People sometimes call me "sir" to be rude I am sure but even "Ma'am" sounds like my name should be "Aunt Gertrude".

[Diane Smith]

I can understand the irritation, but if you're intentionally presenting yourself as a feminine looking male, people are still going to perceive you as masculine first, and use the matching honorific. It would be far more frustrating if you were going all out to pass as female and had the same experience (which has happened to many of us!). Many of us have been trained from an early age that using "sir" and the like shows respect for the other person and have cultivated it as a reflexive habit that is hard to break. In other words, it's not really directed at you individually or to deliberately cause any irritation.

I find that the most polite and sensitive SAs and so forth are the ones who kind of go out of their way to avoid using "sir," "ma'am" or "miss" altogether and try to address me either by name or in a non-gender-specific way.

- Diane

[Emily Barton]

Here's a thought... how about you just say something? I see so many people wasting time getting worked up over the little things in life, where often all they needed to do was say something to resolve the situation early.

You have to appreciate the fact that these people are just trying to be courteous towards you, regardless of how it may come across. They do not have a crystal ball, and I think it's frankly unfair to expect them to treat you exactly how you want to be treated from the moment they first see you. They are probably quite unsure of what to do, and as such would probably be grateful if you gave them some guidance.

So how's about the next time this happens, you politely mention that you'd rather not be referred to as 'sir'. Emphasis on 'politely' - they are as deserving of your respect as you are of theirs. If you just did this you'd get to avoid the silent stewing and resentment (which can't be healthy), and you'll potentially even educate whoever's serving you to think twice the next time they see someone in a similar position to yours.

Tolerance goes both ways... I think often it's the persecuted who forget that the most.

[max]

Why do many males feel that they must call a person "Sir"? It is interesting to note that these male clerks/servers call males "Sir" but 90 percent of the time they do not address GG females as "Mam". I don't understand their reasoning here. If you address all males as "Sir", then certainly you must address all females as "Mam".

There is sometimes a perception that mam is appropriate for older women. I have seen women get VERY agitated at being "mam'ed".

[Jocelyn Quivers]

I'll go from my experiences when I was younger and was in a customer service/service/hospitatlity etc. industry type job. On the first day of orientation it was beaten into our heads sideways to address everyone as sir and mam. On a typical day I could come in contact with anywhere from a few hundred people to thousands of people.

Every one of them was addressed as sir or mam, to where it becomes second nature. This was also reinforced by years of sports in which every coach was addressed as sir, all adults were addressed as sir. This has gone up to my current occupation where everyone is addressed as sir or mam, including superivors, managers, etc.

Even when at the check out line, resturuant, etc. I still address the staff as sir or mam. Basically it's one of the most common words I use on a daily basis. Now there are times when I am not sure of the gender, and when this happens it can sometimes be a double edged sword.

I'm sure I've probably offended a few GG's (who appear very masculine) by addressing them as sir, and vice versa by addressing very effeminate looking GM's by addressing them as mam . I base this off of their reaction when they angrily told me they or not a sir or a mam. Usually when I am in such situations now, I try to not use gender at all. Sometime due to being in a rush, not thinking, or letting my mouth speak ahead of my mind, I will still address them in the wrong gender.

I guess in trying to answer your question, there might be times where people are just being rude and trying to offend you. There might be other times when you will run into someone like me who just out of habbit and basicaly is like a robot programmed to say sir or mam every minute of there lives, we might occasionaly get it wrong.

That does not mean they are trying to offend you, and believe me on the other end it's not something I really like having happen and it does cause embarrassment on my end.

On a lighter note I get called mam a lot in male mode despite trying my hardest to look as masculine, "thugged out," and mannish as possible. When this happens I give a light hearted laugh, I'll actually smile for a change, see the humor in the situation, and just let it go.

[Michelle 2]

Emily your solution is so perfect. I will be using this tidbit next time it occurs.

Michelle

[TGMarla]

....my presentation is basically that of a very feminine male.

And this is why you get "sir" added when people address you. They are attempting to be polite. These people know you are male despite your obvious effeminate appearance. What the heck do you expect from people, especially people who have little understanding of the transgendered?

Sheesh! Get over it. People are only trying to be nice to you.

[StephanieC]

I agree. The same thing happens to me. Over the course of time, this is starting to bother me more and more. Some business seem to stress the sir/ma'am and some seem to go in the other direction. I think it's easy to change and still be respectful.
-stephani

[Sara Jessica]

And this is why you get "sir" added when people address you. They are attempting to be polite. These people know you are male despite your obvious effeminate appearance. What the heck do you expect from people, especially people who have little understanding of the transgendered?

Sheesh! Get over it. People are only trying to be nice to you.

Right on Marla, I'll second that emotion!

It's the mixed presentation which is at work here. Even in full female presentation, many Muggles will still slip up and call us "sir" because their brains detect and perceived in this order...

female

no wait, male

oh, it's one of those TG types

So now knowing how to address TG because we're all new in their world, they revert to the last one in the hierarchy, male. Voila, here comes the "sir".

But there is a point which was not brought up. What if everyone called you "ma'am??? Wouldn't that rub you the wrong way as well?

[Imeni]

Honestly, I'm 26. I call anyone whom I don't know who looks to have about 10+ years on me sir, same thing with women and Maam. Or lady if im feeling adventurous. But I work midnights and im wierd to boot so, my mind isn't exactly what you call stable. Did you guys hear the door bell? CHICKEN! D: Wait, what was the question? WAFFLE!

[Sandra1746]

I wear my hair long and get "maamed" a lot even when I'm in full grungy drab. Especially if they haven't seen my face or heard my voice. The SA is trying to be polite and we usually have a bit of a chuckle over their "pronoun-challenge" when they realize their error.

Life is too short to always be offended,
Sandra1746

[StaceyJane]

I just hate it when I'm en femme and someone calls me sir.
I'm mean do I look like I want to be called sir?

But what's really odd is that at work where I'm not out one of the new girls always calls me sir. I'm not her boss, we are the same pay grade although I do have several years of seniority over her. I tried to tell her not to but she is a timid person and keeps doing it.

[Tina B.]

Funny, I hear people all the time lamenting over where politeness went in our society, Now we are going to hear complaints because someone is trying to be polite, courteous, and professional.
If you are working on passing, and presenting pure female, then I would agree, rude! But if you choose to present, with a mix of male and female, a young man would add the sir, to let you know he is not judging your masculinity, that's what most men would want, how does he know what it is you want, since you are sending such a mixed message. We, and this, is way outside most of there experiences, and they don't know how to deal with it, so they try to be polite, and hope you appreciate it enought to leave a nice tip. If they only knew, it was working against them, they would stop! After all they are just trying to do a job, most of us wold not want to do, and make the best wages they can muster, so I dobt they are trying to offend you.
Tina B.

[Jenniferathome]

It is not demeaning if the speaker does not mean it as such. "Sir" is a term of respect. By the way,I ascertain your sensitivity with regards to this is such that you do not actually hear the women referred to as a "Mam","Miss" and "Ms.". Because there are three choices for women you might not tallying these up. Strangers must address you in some way. If you are obviously male, then "sir" is perfectly reasonable. how can anyone know you consider yourself a this gender? Even if they did, what is the rule for that? I think you are looking for a fight where there is none. You should not allow yourself to be frustrated by respect.

[Julogden]

Being older and curmugeonly , I suspect that many (most?) of that is due to more men having issues with you than women do. It's been my experience that as a general rule, men feel more threatened by gender variance than women are and will do something like addressing a CD as "sir" to make their point that they don't like what we're doing than women will. Most women will take the "live and let live" approach, men will let you know that they don't accept you as a woman.

Just my 2 cents worth, based on what I've experienced.

Carol

[Babeba]

I hate being called ma'am, but am really getting to the point where I can't really be called miss anymore so I try to appreciate the respect that it shows.

To be honest, if I were your waiter and your wedge sandals and pedicure were safely below the table, and your cute capris were likewise hidden from sight, would I have more masculine or feminine cues to go off? At least they were being polite. Docking their tip is just passive aggressive if you don't try to give them a chance to correct it. They probably make little
Money other than through tips.

[Jamie001]

Right on Marla, I'll second that emotion!

It's the mixed presentation which is at work here. Even in full female presentation, many Muggles will still slip up and call us "sir" because their brains detect and perceived in this order...

female

no wait, male

oh, it's one of those TG types

So now knowing how to address TG because we're all new in their world, they revert to the last one in the hierarchy, male. Voila, here comes the "sir".

But there is a point which was not brought up. What if everyone called you "ma'am??? Wouldn't that rub you the wrong way as well?

That is a very good question, and the answer is "no". I would not mind being addressed as "mam" because my brain identifies as being much more female than male. Unfortunately in my case trying to pass is not possible and not worth the effort. I would just appreciate if folks would communicate with me without using "Sir". Most folks have been brainwashed and it is completely unnecessary. It is interesting that most men use "Sir" when addressing other men, but use nothing when addressing a woman. Why can't they address me using no suffix?

[Badtranny]

Unfortunately in my case trying to pass is not possible and not worth the effort. I would just appreciate if folks would communicate with me without using "Sir". Most folks have been brainwashed and it is completely unnecessary. It is interesting that most men use "Sir" when addressing other men, but use nothing when addressing a woman. Why can't they address me using no suffix?

This is just so silly I can't believe I'm even responding. Any man wearing capris and sandals looks exactly like a MAN wearing capris and sandals. Just because you identify as feminine doesn't mean that people will call you ma'am, because all they know is what they see and you LOOK LIKE A MAN. You say yourself that you aren't passing but you still want them to somehow know? I see CD's complain near constantly abut the unaccepting state of the world but you will never change the world. The best you can do is affect your own circumstance. Change your life and what's happening in it. If you don't like being called sir by service people than just say something. Don't "get back" at them for a slight they are completely unaware of by short changing them or whatever.

You are already miles ahead of some of your tribe because you have the courage to be who you are so just enjoy your life and be gracious to those that have no clue.

[Melissa Rose]

Humans are very visual creatures and we rely on our vision for a majority of our information in a given situation and environment. Past experiences and the strongest visual cues are used to instanteously render a mental decision when a mixed or uncertain message is present. As Ms. Hobbes indirectly stated, humans are not mind readers and others cannot know our desires and intentions. IIRC, Melissa and I have been called "you guys" when addressed, and I know it was not intended as a slight. It is a common saying used by men and women, and absolutely no harm or disrespect is meant especially since they address every group that way. I could take it badly and get pissy, or take it is for what it is and not let it ruin things for me. Finally, if it means that much to you, have the courage to directly address a situation where a behavior is unacceptable instead of a hiding behind a hit-and-run approach which may penalize those who had no ill intentions or may not be aware they offended someone.

[Stephenie S]

How about a nice smile and a, "Please don't call me 'sir'. It makes me feel so masculine."

Give people a chance for goodness sake. Anger is so "masculine".

S

[Julia_in_Pa]

You present as male. You have stated this in your OP.
Addressing you as sir is the appropriate and polite thing to do.
Learn to live with it or change yourself don't project your " feelings " about this upon others when society sees you as male.
Doing so is rude on your part.


Julia

[STACY B]

I'll go from my experiences when I was younger and was in a customer service/service/hospitatlity etc. industry type job. On the first day of orientation it was beaten into our heads sideways to address everyone as sir and mam. On a typical day I could come in contact with anywhere from a few hundred people to thousands of people.

Every one of them was addressed as sir or mam, to where it becomes second nature. This was also reinforced by years of sports in which every coach was addressed as sir, all adults were addressed as sir. This has gone up to my current occupation where everyone is addressed as sir or mam, including superivors, managers, etc.

Even when at the check out line, resturuant, etc. I still address the staff as sir or mam. Basically it's one of the most common words I use on a daily basis. Now there are times when I am not sure of the gender, and when this happens it can sometimes be a double edged sword.

I'm sure I've probably offended a few GG's (who appear very masculine) by addressing them as sir, and vice versa by addressing very effeminate looking GM's by addressing them as mam . I base this off of their reaction when they angrily told me they or not a sir or a mam. Usually when I am in such situations now, I try to not use gender at all. Sometime due to being in a rush, not thinking, or letting my mouth speak ahead of my mind, I will still address them in the wrong gender.

I guess in trying to answer your question, there might be times where people are just being rude and trying to offend you. There might be other times when you will run into someone like me who just out of habbit and basicaly is like a robot programmed to say sir or mam every minute of there lives, we might occasionaly get it wrong.

That does not mean they are trying to offend you, and believe me on the other end it's not something I really like having happen and it does cause embarrassment on my end.

On a lighter note I get called mam a lot in male mode despite trying my hardest to look as masculine, "thugged out," and mannish as possible. When this happens I give a light hearted laugh, I'll actually smile for a change, see the humor in the situation, and just let it go.

Thanx for your comment MAM ,, You look like a MAM ,,To me ,, So you better get used to it .. LOL,,,,, Showin the LOVE ,,,MAM !!!

[JoanAz]

I love the response from "southerners"
"can I help you Sugar or Darling"