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Thread: We have nothing to fear but fear itself

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    We have nothing to fear but fear itself

    Hi, All!

    Do we TG people have anything to fear from the cold, cruel cisgender world? Some of our members say that we don’t. They are fond of quoting FDR: “We have nothing to fear but fear itself.” I have to say I’m tired of hearing this now when it’s applied to us TG people. Mainly because it’s simply not true.

    I contend that it is perfectly reasonable for a TG person to be fearful at times. What are some of the things we might fear?

    [1] Wives. Coming out to the wife is fraught with peril. Some GG’s are accepting. Many are not. Most women in this world would prefer not to be married to a CDing man. It’s a simple fact, and I for one have no trouble understanding their feelings. Not long ago one of our members started a thread saying how he’d come out to his wife, and it was a total disaster. It’s going to cost him a lot, almost everything he has. Those of you who say we have nothing to fear, how do you react to this member’s dilemma?

    [2] Children, neighbours, friends, colleagues. You never know how someone is going to react when you come out to them, and losing the respect and affection of someone you respect/like/love is a real possibility. There’s ample testimony on this forum of accepting people and disapproving people.

    [3] Bosses. There are members on this forum who testify that they get out frequently and never have any trouble—but then they go on to say that when they’re out, it’s in some other town besides the one they live in so that there’s no risk of running into a boss, e.g. Some people have a reasonable fear of losing a job.

    [4] Schoolmates. I recently saw a survey done among American LGBT high school students. 90% of them reported having been harassed in the last year.

    [5] Transphobes. I had the great pleasure yesterday of coming across one—a transphobic lesbian who calls herself “Dirtywhiteboi67”, or just “Dirt” for short, which is highly appropriate. She has blogs on YouTube and has her own website, and when you have a look at them, you’re simply stunned and sickened. It’s hard to fathom that a human being could sink so low. She reserves her special ire for young, transitioning/transitioned FTM’s, whom she has a habit of publicly outing on her website. I encountered one of her victims on another forum yesterday. Will we say he has nothing to fear?

    [6] Violent people. In more extreme cases, there’s actual physical harassment that can take the form of severe beatings, even murder. Or if you successfully defend yourself, you might end up in prison.

    So those who claim that we have nothing to fear are simply wrong. Now, if they want to say that we don’t have as much to fear as we might think we do, I think I can go along with that. When I first began considering whether I might get out some day, the idea scared me silly. But there’s enough testimony on this forum to convince me that, depending on circumstances, I don’t have as much to fear as I once thought. I do listen to the testimony I get on this forum.

    Not terribly long ago I met a T-woman in Dublin who is currently transitioning and I asked her if she got much harassment. She gave me a very reasonable reply. In her estimation, she got some form of harassment on average once every two months or so. Most of it was very minor. Only once did she fear violence, and fortunately it didn’t come to that. And when I was with her I saw for myself how it’s possible to walk through the city streets on a busy Saturday afternoon without any harassment whatsoever.

    This is the sort of answer I find very reasonable and helpful: an honest assessment of the situation without denying the problems but at the same time keeping them in perspective. And this is the sort of assessment I listen to when trying to take stock of my own situation. As far as I’m concerned, those who contend that we have nothing to fear, however well-intentioned they may be, are simply undermining their own credibility because they’re not telling the truth.

    As a lot of people know, I’m currently considering coming out in the little town I live in. A few days ago I came across a website giving advice to TG people who want to come out. One thing it suggested doing was for you to actually write your fears down on paper. I thought this was a good idea, so that’s what I did. And I deliberately let my imagination run wild. Worst case scenario, what could I imagine might possibly happen to me, no matter how small I thought the chances might be of it actually happening?

    Having done that, looking back over my list, I saw that in most cases the things I feared were either minor (such as nasty comments or looks or people avoiding me), or the chances of them happening were so remote as to be not worth worrying about. But a few of them were definitely worth taking into account.

    One example: I don’t know about other countries, but in Ireland it’s a favourite pastime among young twerps to go around to the house of someone they don’t like and cause a bit of trouble. This will usually happen at night and most commonly takes the form of throwing things at the house—eggs, cartons of milk, sometimes stones. I think I can pretty well guarantee that this will happen in my case because in this small town it won’t take the lads long to find out where I live.

    And this one is seriously hanging me up because my landlord also lives in the house, and would it be fair for me to bring my troubles onto him? In fact, he’s already had this sort of trouble himself—because he’s a farmer, and in a very tidy neighbourhood his house is very untidy: he doesn’t look after the front garden very well, he leaves farm implements and other things lying around, etc. In other words, his house stands out, and for that reason alone, he’s had some harassment.

    Is it reasonable for a TG person to fear that sort of harassment? Yes. Because whatever stands out will be harassed, and one lone TG person in a small town will definitely stand out. I don’t have the right, I don’t think, to involve my landlord in my troubles, but if I move into a house on my own, will I be able to deal with, say, stuff being thrown at the house at 2 in the morning?

    Can I guarantee that this will happen? No. Perhaps I don’t have as much to fear as I think I do. But this is a reasonable fear, and I think I’d be very foolish to ignore it.

    And I am very tired now of two things: people saying we have nothing to fear, because it isn’t true. And in particular, people who pour their contempt on members who do have some fear. Remember this: those who have some fear aren’t in the wrong. The people who are in the wrong are the cisgender people who harass TG people, and if you’re going to claim that there aren’t any of them, you’re simply denying reality. Yes, sometimes, maybe even often, our fears are exaggerated, but cisgender people do give us reasonable grounds to be afraid, and when you express your contempt for people who are afraid, you’re blaming the victim.

    So what am I advocating? Fear and trembling and the sickness unto death? No, for myself, I prefer sweet reason. Like this: a couple of weeks ago I came out to my son. Now I had some fears, but I’d also learned some things on this forum. Although some children might reject a CDing parent, not all of them by any means do so. Knowing that and assessing the relationship I had with my son, I thought it likely that he’d be OK with my TGism. And that proved to be the case. Since that day, things have gone on as they always have. I haven’t lost his respect and love.

    On the other hand, he hasn’t said a word about TGism and hasn’t asked me anything about it. Again, because of things I’ve learned on this forum, this doesn’t surprise me. There are people—wives, children, friends—who can accept TGism as long as it’s not right in their face. So maybe my son simply needs some time to chew on and digest what I’ve told him. It makes no sense for me to push him in any way. Let him take his time.

    This is to say that by taking account of both the positive and negative testimony I’ve found on this forum, I’ve been able to make a good decision and to handle a difficult situation quite well (which is nothing short of miraculous for me). If anybody sees something wrong with this sort of procedure, you’re perfectly free to comment.

    It makes no sense to pretend that the negatives don’t exist. Difficulties don’t go away simply because we wish they would. For me it’s daft not to look at the risks you face and try to size them up. E.g., if you’re going to get out in the world, it’s a certainty that from time to time you’re going to get a stare, maybe a laugh, maybe a taunt. By acknowledging that fact, you have a chance to prepare yourself for it. You do have to have a thick skin sometimes when you’re TG. If you tend to be a bit thin-skinned (as I am at times) then you have a chance to ready yourself for what you’re going to be faced with.

    What am I asking for? Honesty, that’s all. If you’ve had good experiences, by all means tell us about them. In theory at least, we’re all on the same team here. We all want things to be better for TG people. I myself have taken heart from the positive testimony that I’ve often seen on this forum. But I also want to be as objective as possible about my own situation. That means attempting to assess the risks that I might run as honestly as possible.

    I’d also like to say at this point that most of those people (there are a couple of exceptions) who claim we have nothing to fear are very nice people, and I have nothing whatsoever against them personally. They’re good, decent, honest people who wish us all the best, and I do in fact pay close attention to the testimony that they have to offer. But when they say we have nothing to fear, I simply think they’re mistaken. (And by the way, FDR was also mistaken.)

    Best wishes, Annabelle

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    I'm my own alter ego! natacsha's Avatar
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    Hey sweetie. Very nice read. you pose several excellent points and most I can relate to. the fear of everything on that list is always there. now, it seems as though you understand that those fears listed are superficial when compared to the true fear I fear is going on... I can't help but take notice to your "troubles" which you have mentioned several times. Referring to yourself as "trouble" or bringing your troubles to other people lives?? I understand completely the consideration you have for others. Hence why I'm not out either. But...and a Big BUTT, trouble is the wrong word if I may say. The difference between seeing yourself as troubled versus being considerate to those who may not understand should not be confused. maybe??

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    Platinum Member Beverley Sims's Avatar
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    Even on this site we build up a profile of ourselves that can be revealing.
    There have been a couple of inadvertant outings even on this site.
    So always tread carefully and don't provoke those discussions that might attract attention.
    A totally different story if you are out or have strong beliefs and wish to air them.
    Work on your elegance,
    and beauty will follow.

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    Adventuress Kate Simmons's Avatar
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    It can be a scary world out there and I would never advocate throwing caution to the wind and going out there and just do what we want regardless of consequences. Part of really being your own person is to take responsibility for your own actions and living with the outcome of your decisions. That is a sign of maturity and that is how we learn in life. Even so, I don't let potential fear of what MIGHT happen govern my actions totally but use discernment and look ahead at potential outcomes, especially in view of the fact that my actions may impact my loved ones or friends, as it's not really all about myself.

    No one ever said life in general would be easy but we can gain enormous satisfaction as well as personal validation when we stand up for what we believe in and that we believe in who we are whether dressed in men's or women's clothes.
    Second star to the right and straight on till morning

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    Senior Member Michelle 51's Avatar
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    I think you are quite accurate.Some are outed by choice or accident and live happily ever after and some live a life of misery and although we may wish for the first we also have every right to fear the latter.And yes FDR was full of shit.That is the stupidist comment I've ever heard.If you were on an airplane and the pilot said we're going to crash try telling the passengers that one.
    If I knew where it was going to take me I probably would have put my mother's panties back.

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    Member ColleenA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Annabelle Larousse View Post
    Do we TG people have anything to fear from the cold, cruel cisgender world? ... What are some of the things we might fear?

    [1] Wives. Coming out to the wife is fraught with peril. Some GG’s are accepting. Many are not. ...
    [2] Children, neighbours, friends, colleagues. You never know how someone is going to react when you come out to them ...
    You know even less how someone is going to react when you are outed to them.

    About three years into my marriage (at about age 23), I approached my wife about my desire to dress. I was seeking her acceptance and hoped for her active support, but I considered it a private matter and wanted it to be kept between us. Less than 24 hours later, her mother knew about it.

    In retrospect, I could see that my wife needed someone to talk to about the bombshell I had dropped on her, and her mother was her closest confidante. Fortunately, her mother, a quite judgmental person to begin with, never confronted me directly about it during the remaining four years of my marriage, but there were a few clear indications what she thought about the matter.

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    AKA Miss. B. Haven Erin McShea's Avatar
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    "And I am very tired now of two things: people saying we have nothing to fear, because it isn’t true. And in particular, people who pour their contempt on members who do have some fear. Remember this: those who have some fear aren’t in the wrong. The people who are in the wrong are the cisgender people who harass TG people, and if you’re going to claim that there aren’t any of them, you’re simply denying reality. Yes, sometimes, maybe even often, our fears are exaggerated, but cisgender people do give us reasonable grounds to be afraid, and when you express your contempt for people who are afraid, you’re blaming the victim."

    Very well put,Annabelle!

    I recently started a thread on how I am tired of how "We" CD'ers are perceived in public and it quickly turned to me being a coward for not putting on "My big girl panties" and dealing with it in the open. They kind of missed my point.

    I agree with you. We probably do have less to fear than we think. But is that a risk worth taking, especially with others involved?? Is it fair to them? I think not.

    I do want to say I have a lot of respect and admiration for those who do "come out", but Don't be harsh on those of us who choose not to. Would I have a different point of view in a perfect world? Sure. But we all know how that is not true. And I feel, me wanting to wear something pretty in public is very far down the list of things to make it perfect.

    Erin
    "Never explain- Your friends don't need it and your enemies will not believe you anyway"

    "It's Never too late to have a Happy Childhood!"

    "I think that somehow, we learn who we really are and then live with that decision."
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    Quote Originally Posted by natacsha View Post
    . . . I can't help but take notice to your "troubles" which you have mentioned several times. Referring to yourself as "trouble" or bringing your troubles to other people lives?? I understand completely the consideration you have for others. Hence why I'm not out either. But...and a Big BUTT, trouble is the wrong word if I may say. The difference between seeing yourself as troubled versus being considerate to those who may not understand should not be confused. maybe??
    Hi, Natacsha! There is a difference between "being troubled" (which I may be) and "having troubles", which I might well have if I came out in this town.

    But this business with my landlord is, I think, a perfect illustration of the things I think we TG people need to consider. As it stands, my landlord knows nothing about my TGism. (At least, I don't think he does.) But if I were to suddenly get out on the town and it brought some trouble around to our house, I think he'd be rather displeased with me. And I think he'd be right. For one thing, he's been very good to me in ways. And if I'm going to do something that could cause problems for him, I do think he should have some say-so in the matter. If I don't want him to have any say-so, then I think I should move. Given the layout of the house, if there is any trouble outside, he'll be the one bearing the brunt of it, not me. But I also think that when someone has been good to us, we do owe them some consideration. I think he'd be right to be unhappy with me if I didn't look before I leapt and it caused trouble for him.

    I'm pleased to see others commenting on this issue, because I think it's one that merits serious discussion, whatever your own personal view on it.

    Best wishes, Annabelle

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    The Girl Next Door Sally24's Avatar
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    I'm not sure which threads you've been reading but any I've seen, or contributed to recently, all give a pretty balanced view of what can and does happen. Coming OUT to everyone is also quite a different matter than just going out in public. Life is full of dangers and you always have to consider that. I may eventually be.out to everyone myself but I'd rather deal with that reality then hide and fear the rest of my life. Every one of us has to make that choice.
    Sally

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    Gold Member Cynthia Anne's Avatar
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    Very true! And nicely put! The next time I want to say ''we have nothing to fear'', I will reprase it to ''I HAVE NOTHING TO FEAR'', because I don't! I let the chips fall where they may! I worry about nothing! Hugs!
    If you don't like the way I'm livin', you just leave this long haired country girl alone:

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    I think any realist will acknowledge that there are a wide variety of potential threats. But we often exagerate legitimate fears and conjure others from thin air. The question of probabilities comes into play. Some things are very likely to happen - such as an SO stumbling upon a person's "stash". Others, such as a violent encounter with a transphobe are really quite improbable. And of course there are always mitigating circumstances. For example, bad things are more likley to happen during late nite excursions through the seedier parts of town than during a trip to the mall.


    In the end, fear is simply a reaction to one's perception of risks. But we have the capacity to manage risks. That's the logical response to fear.

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    I'd go along with all of this, Kim.

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    This was a very well written essay on the subject of fear. I, too, dislike reading posts that tend to equate fear with something like cowardice. They don't usually say that outright, but the general tone of some posts tends to imply it. Perhaps we should not refer to it as fear, but instead use a term such as "common sense". Fear tends to imply something irrational, which the concerns of being outed or discovered certainly are not. If we live our lives as though our own peace of mind, and well being are all that matters, then fear can definitely be minimized. But no man is an island, and the more concern we have for the opinions and feelings of those around us, then the greater the need for some degree of fear, or I should say common sense.

    Veronica

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    Chickie Chickhe's Avatar
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    ...you miss the point. It is true the world has all of the risks you mention, but they can be managed to a degree to reduce their impact. The main idea is to avoid letting fear stop you from doing the things that you need to do to function properly in everyday life. For example, if you are too scared to go out, but deep down you know that you need to because it will answer some questions, but you can never bring yourself to do it this constand anxiety will impact how you feel even when you are not CDing. The main thing is to minimize the risks and find a way to do what you need to. This needs to be done without feeling shame or guilt (understand you are doing it not to hide, but as a practical means to avoid harm). I compare it to a scientist...you need to do some unusual experiement, it doesn't change who you are...you are just looking for answers.
    Chickie

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chickhe View Post
    ...you miss the point. It is true the world has all of the risks you mention, but they can be managed to a degree to reduce their impact.
    Hi, Chickie! Sorry, but I'm not missing the point. This is my thread and I can make whatever point I want. I agree that risks can often be reduced if we manage them correctly. But in order to manage them, we must first acknowledge that they exist. And there are people on this forum who are stating that there are no risks: "We have nothing to fear but fear itself." This is my point: some people are denying that we have anything to fear. I contend that we do. For myself personally I prefer to take the difficulties we face into account precisely so that I might be able to manage them.

    Best wishes, Annabelle

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    I think Annabelle's points are well founded. Any activity has its risks and rewards. Regardless of any legal protections the law in any particular locale affords, you cannot legislate acceptance. I have to take into consideration my cross dressing is not typical male behavior. I have to adjust my actions to balance my desires and the desires of others. I cross dress for stress relief. I may have been predisposed to cross dressing in the womb. Who knows? My actions have to take into consideration the feelings of my wife, who knows, and, the impact it may or may not have on other members of my family, who do not know. I will never put on my big girl panties and throw myself on the living room couch, and, tell my wife 'suck it up, this is the way it's going to be." It is not in my nature to cause an unnecessary disturbance in the force, i.e., my marriage. That's why DADT seems to work for us. She gives me time and space, and, I do not abuse her tacit acceptance.

    I suspect some members of this forum have taken some advice offered here and found their actions have blown up in their faces. There is an inherent possibility of a negative reaction to any activity. I believe there are venues where a cross dresser can feel at ease, such as a club or support group.

    I learned along time ago, it is necessary to evaluate all the risks involved in any behavior. Some have minimal risks. Some have grave consequences. Sometimes it is necessary to err on the side of caution. I choose to be an in home cross dresser because it serves my inner needs.

    If I need to add additional thoughts, I will log back on later. Right now I have to head out to counseling for issues other than wearing a dress!

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    Chickie Chickhe's Avatar
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    well..okay, maybe 'missing the point' should have been 'hit the nail on the head', I don't think we disagree. Its often viewed as black and white, like you say, people say just do it (without considering the impact), but it isn't... as we both agree its a balancing act. My point is, find a way to do what 'you' need to do (safely)...so you can grow. Don't dwell too much on what could go wrong because it never works out as you expect. Just have a viable excape plan ready if you need it.
    Chickie

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chickhe View Post
    . . . I don't think we disagree. Its often viewed as black and white, like you say, people say just do it (without considering the impact), but it isn't... as we both agree its a balancing act. My point is, find a way to do what 'you' need to do (safely)...so you can grow. Don't dwell too much on what could go wrong because it never works out as you expect. Just have a viable excape plan ready if you need it.
    Yeah, Chickie, I'd go along with this. I confess I have some fears. I feel quite sure some of my fears are reasonable. Others I think I can dismiss. But for me it makes sense to face your fears, analyze them, try and determine how reasonable they are, and see if there's some way to reduce the risks you might be taking. And I think you're also right to say that things don't work out as we might expect. In fact, a lot of people on this forum have said just that: e.g., that some people they expected to be accepting abandoned them, whereas some they expected would reject them accepted them. We can't foresee everything. Maybe we can't foresee much at all. We may have some disappointments, we may have some pleasant surprises.

    But what I'm saying is that there are risks that we TG people must face. There's no point in denying that fact. This is one benefit I personally have got from this forum: people sharing their experiences, what problems they faced and how they resolved them. It's precisely the testimony I've read on this forum that gives me hope that I can sort out my own situation for myself.

    Annabelle

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    Aspiring Member JessHaust's Avatar
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    The problem with this argument is that is still perpetrates the fear of the unknown. You list all the terrible things that can happen, yet you really don't know. You have never experienced any of these scary things.
    It's like the child that is convinced that there are monsters in their closet, they will never open the door to see, but that are still afraid.

    Yes there are bad things that can happen, but they have little to nothing to do with cross dressing. The probability of anything happening to you are no greater in a dress than jeans.

    I have personally experienced the things you listed without a single bad incident. My wife, kids, brothers, friends, school friends, neighbors, and work friends all know and no one shuns me. My house has not been charged by an angry mob with torches and pitchforks. I have not lost a single dime of income.
    And I am not alone in this, my best friend Jackie Bee goes to work at Verizon several times a week now dressed, she has become quite the celebrity (She is a member of this forum). I have another friend who is the CFO of a Fortune 500 company and all the executives have knows for years.
    I have never met a 'transaphobe', but even if I did I would just handle them like any other unruly person, with a pleasant but firm manner, after all they are the ones with the phobia.
    As for violent people, same thing, I have experienced a few over the course of 53 years, and I just treat them like I treat a venomous snake, pay attention to my surroundings and when I see one , I leave it alone and it leaves me alone, never been bitten by one, never been bothered by a violent person.

    The point of FDR quote is not that there are no valid fears out there somewhere, it's that once we overcome the fear that we create inside ourselves, the real ones are easy to deal with.
    Last edited by JessHaust; 06-14-2012 at 03:58 PM.
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    Joanie sterling12's Avatar
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    If your definition of "Out" is to tell Everyone, Everything....then, I can safely say that I have NEVER advocated that to anyone! My usual advise is that "YOU, as an individual, is going to have to make your own decisions about whom you tell, and how much." Being Out, doesn't mean you have to publish your new-found status in The Papers, nor does it mean you have to stop strangers on The Street, telling them Your Story.

    One would be very foolish to assume that "coming out" would not have repercussions. EVERY Account that I've ever read, featured plenty of this kind of information.

    I think The Real Decision to be made is: "Has staying in A Complete Closet caused me more harm than stepping out of That Closet, and is it worth The Risk." If it's become intolerable, what choices do you have? Yes, there are plenty of dangers, economic, physical, emotional, and societal. BUT, we take calculated risks everyday! You have to do that when you decide to step off The Curb, or choose your breakfast cereal. Perhaps it's just another risk? Maybe it's a huge risk, maybe not?

    See, we have come back full circle. We are back to that individual choice option. So, I guess Today you have to decide what to do.

    Peace and Love, Joanie

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    Quote Originally Posted by JessHaust View Post
    The problem with this argument is that is still perpetrates the fear of the unknown. You list all the terrible things that can happen, yet you really don't know. You have never experienced any of these scary things.
    It's like the child that is convinced that there are monsters in their closet, they will never open the door to see, but that are still afraid.

    Monsters under the bed is an example of an irrational fear. Concern over the reaction of your spouse finding out that her "man" secretly has been portraying a woman is neither irrational or fear. It is an uncertainty, which requires careful thought and consideration prior to taking any action one way or the other. The same goes for coming out to friends, family, employers etc. Physical harm is not the primary concern, any more than at any other time or place regardless of how we are dressed. Emotional harm, to yourself or others, is a far more important consideration as it can be a very real possibility.

    I applaud those who are out and about and have encountered no ill effects. However, was it the result of blind luck, careful consideration of all the factors or the taking of irresponsible chances. We certainly hear of cases where things went horribly wrong, especially with respect to spouses. I have seen no statistical studies that would reflect the relative percentages of good versus bad experiences. We hear all about the successes, but it is usually human nature to keep quiet about our failures.

    Everybody's needs, responsibilities and circumstances are different, and the "just do it" spirit of many posts is rarely helpful, but could create frustration and depression, or in the worst scenario could lead to the taking of irrational chances with disastrous results.

    Veronica

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    Quote Originally Posted by JessHaust View Post
    The problem with this argument is that is still perpetrates the fear of the unknown. You list all the terrible things that can happen, yet you really don't know. You have never experienced any of these scary things.
    It's like the child that is convinced that there are monsters in their closet, they will never open the door to see, but that are still afraid.
    Jess, the things that I've listed are not "unknown", and they are not terrible things that "can" happen. They are things that are known and they are things that have happened. TG people have had their marriages wrecked; TG people have lost the love and respect of children and supposed friends; TG people have lost jobs; TG young people have been bullied at school; TG people have been outed on a transphobe website; TG people have been assaulted and murdered.

    There's no point in denying this, Jess. It does happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by JessHaust View Post
    Yes there are bad things that can happen, but they have little to nothing to do with cross dressing. The probability of anything happening to you are no greater in a dress than jeans.
    Sorry, Jess, but this won't wash. These things have everything to do with CDing. When a CDing man confesses to his wife that he's CDing, what does it have to do with? It has to do with CDing. If he weren't a CDer, then he wouldn't have to confess to his wife that he's a CDer.

    Similarly, when I recently came out to my son: what exactly was I coming out about? The fact that I'm TG. If I weren't TG, I wouldn't have to tell him that I'm TG.

    The probability of such things happening is greater precisely because we like to wear dresses instead of jeans. If we didn't like to wear dresses, nothing would happen because nothing was happening.

    Quote Originally Posted by JessHaust View Post
    I have personally experienced the things you listed without a single bad incident. My wife, kids, brothers, friends, school friends, neighbors, and work friends all know and no one shuns me. My house has not been charged by an angry mob with torches and pitchforks. I have not lost a single dime of income.
    And I am not alone in this, my best friend Jackie Bee goes to work at Verizon several times a week now dressed, she has become quite the celebrity (She is a member of this forum). I have another friend who is the CFO of a Fortune 500 company and all the executives have knows for years.
    I'm glad that you and your friend have had good experiences, Jess. If you go back to my OP, you'll see that I've quite clearly acknowledged that people have had good experiences; that I have paid close attention to the testimony of those who have; and that I myself have found great encouragement in reading this testimony.

    I'm not denying that people have good experiences. But I'm not denying that people have bad experiences, too. What I want, Jess, is a balanced picture. I want the truth, because I see no advantage in denying the truth.

    Quote Originally Posted by JessHaust View Post
    I have never met a 'transaphobe', but even if I did I would just handle them like any other unruly person, with a pleasant but firm manner, after all they are the ones with the phobia.
    I'm glad you haven't. But some people have. If you like, I can give you a link to the post on the other forum I'm a member of where one of our members is talking about how he was outed on "Dirt's" website. And then you might consider,e.g., those of us who grow up in transphobic homes, those high school kids who are bullied by transphobes, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by JessHaust View Post
    As for violent people, same thing, I have experienced a few over the course of 53 years, and I just treat them like I treat a venomous snake, pay attention to my surroundings and when I see one , I leave it alone and it leaves me alone, never been bitten by one, never been bothered by a violent person.
    Well, I'm glad you've run into violent people who weren't actually violent. It would be very nice if all violent people were non-violent. Some people, however, do run into violent people who are actually violent. You can try and leave them alone: but they do bite and they do bother. Unfortunately, some TG people do run into violence.

    Quote Originally Posted by JessHaust View Post
    The point of FDR quote is not that there are no valid fears out there somewhere, it's that once we overcome the fear that we create inside ourselves, the real ones are easy to deal with.
    Well, if this what FDR meant, then he's conceding my point. There are things to fear: it's just that we should try to overcome our fears, and we shouldn't create fears that don't actually exist.

    I'd go along with that. I see no advantage in imagining fears that don't exist or exaggerating fears that do exist. But neither do I see any advantage in denying fears that are genuine. In line with my OP, what I want to do is to try to achieve an honest, objective assessment of what I'm facing.

    Quote Originally Posted by sterling12 View Post

    I think The Real Decision to be made is: "Has staying in A Complete Closet caused me more harm than stepping out of That Closet, and is it worth The Risk." If it's become intolerable, what choices do you have? Yes, there are plenty of dangers, economic, physical, emotional, and societal. BUT, we take calculated risks everyday! You have to do that when you decide to step off The Curb, or choose your breakfast cereal. Perhaps it's just another risk? Maybe it's a huge risk, maybe not?

    See, we have come back full circle. We are back to that individual choice option. So, I guess Today you have to decide what to do.

    Peace and Love, Joanie
    I'd go along with this, Joanie. This is where I am today: has staying in the closet done me any real harm? Most decidedly, Yes! Do I want out? Yes! Am I willing to take some risks to get out? Yes!

    I will be out sooner or later. Exactly how that's going to happen, I'm not sure right now. I don't think it will be in this town. It will be in another one, then.

    I have in recent times already taken two risks. One (shopping in drab) turned out to be a small risk, so small as almost not to be a risk at all. The other (coming out to my son) was a genuine risk, but I was quietly confident about the outcome, and it turned out I was right.

    There will be other steps, other risks. I'm going to go forward. Exactly what my road will be, I can't foresee right now.

    But I do try to be more or less intelligent. When I'm looking at some risks, I'd like to be able to consider and assess them as best I can. I see no advantage whatsoever in pretending that they don't exist.

    Best wishes, Annabelle

  23. #23
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    I'm one of those youg people that says "Screw it, if people don't like me I don't give a damn!" I've always been that way but alot of your points are true even for someone with my outlook. I havent come out yet cause my father would... lets just say he's a homophobic/transphobic ignorant redneck(sorry if you find the term offensive but I come from rednecks) with a violent past who would not react so kindly. I actually heard a rumor that a childhood friend/neighbor of mine is now a crossdresser a few months ago. Didn't see it coming if it's true, but when my dad heard he laughed an said "Poor (father of said crossdresser), he must be mortified. Him turning into a faggot is bad enough, but that's the worst kind" Now please don't be mistaken in thinking I wan't acceptance from him. We don't have much of a relationship but I just don't want trouble from him. I'm young so job wise an getting a woman(or a man, who knows?), an possibly kids someday it will be open but... I need to get past this hurdle first... One of the sayings I try to go by is "Id rather be hated for who I am than loved for who I'm not", but that's not always easy.

  24. #24
    Exploring NEPA now Cheryl T's Avatar
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    Yes, there are reasons to "fear" the world. There are reasons each of us hides from someone. While my spouse is aware, no other family member is, nor are our friends aware...because of "fear". Fear that they will reject us, turn on us, whatever.
    There are reasons to fear the public. There are those that would do us harm and we must be cautious when we venture out, but then there are dangers unrelated to crossdressing as well and if we allow those fears to rule our lives then we might just as well be shut-ins. Oh, sorry, there are fears in the home too...slip and fall in the bathtub, be burnt by the stove, an electrical shock from a frayed cord.
    The point is that if you wish to be a part of society and the world beyond your doors there are risks. Risk management is something we do every day when we cross a street, drive a car, etc. It's the same thing when those of us that go out leave our homes. There are added risks, but they are manageable. No one ever said this was a safe world, we just need to be aware that there are risks and do our best to take care.
    I don't wear women's clothes, I wear MY clothes !

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheryl T View Post
    . . . Oh, sorry, there are fears in the home too...slip and fall in the bathtub, be burnt by the stove, an electrical shock from a frayed cord. The point is that if you wish to be a part of society and the world beyond your doors there are risks. Risk management is something we do every day when we cross a street, drive a car, etc. It's the same thing when those of us that go out leave our homes. There are added risks, but they are manageable. No one ever said this was a safe world, we just need to be aware that there are risks and do our best to take care.
    This is very true, Cheryl. We always have risks and dangers to face, and many times we have to overcome our fears in order to live with any sort of happiness at all. But the first step in overcoming your fears is to acknowledge that they exist.

    Best wishes, Annabelle

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