Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst ... 34567 LastLast
Results 101 to 125 of 174

Thread: The elephant in MY room is starting to make some noise

  1. #101
    Style Icon Sara Jessica's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    The OC, California
    Posts
    5,919
    Quote Originally Posted by Alice B View Post
    Wow! We need to talk. I may not have answers, but I'm a good listener and of course always a friend.
    Yes, we will soon. Let's connect on some options in early November.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sara Jessica View Post
    By the way...Raquel, your post is wonderful and unique in it's perspective. I will try to address it within the next day or two.
    OK, maybe I should have said within the next week or two.

    Quote Originally Posted by VeronicaMoonlit View Post
    Nods... that you'll have to address too. Would your wife accept being part of a Lesbian relationship.
    Thanks for the reminder Veronica. And once this is done I'll have to get back to the rest of your comments within the next day...I mean week or two!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Raquel June View Post
    This is your best friend? The guy who keeps noticing more and more things and making little comments?

    You've gotta watch out. You've gotta really think about what your boundaries are. I know it sounds silly, but this could turn into a situation that totally blindsides you.

    Guys get a little weird when their friends turn out to be gay or trans. If you're not in the let's-drink-a-beer-and-whistle-at-chicks zone, you're in a place that has some sexual tension. Some guys can deal with that and even make jokes about it. Some guys can't.

    If you're not their 100% hetero dude buddy, you become a sex object to some degree. It doesn't mean they're going to be offensive or try to rape you. But one day they might have too many drinks and tell you you're un-f*ckable. Or maybe they'll tell you that you are. Either way, it's a weird situation.

    Maybe you've thought of this and you're prepared to stand up for yourself. But is being out new to you? Are you prepared for your own feelings?

    And in a way, it can be flattering just to be seen in any kind of feminine terms. A part of you will say, "This person sees the woman in me, and that's all I want," and no matter how gross a guy is, it's good to feel beautiful and desired. You've gotta plan ahead and make up your mind that if you hear that voice in your head you're going to tell the b*tch to shut up.

    Sorry for the tangent, but I just thought if you hadn't really experienced what it's like to come out to your guy friends that it might be helpful.
    This is a very interesting tangent Raquel. Yes, he is one of my best friends. I have known him for at least 25 years. The motivation for disclosure is important for discussion no matter how the individual identifies. There are way too many tales in these pages about those who become obsessive about their TG nature and the next thing you know, they're blabbing it to others, seemingly without forethought about the fact you cannot put the genie back in the bottle once she is out. In these cases I often wonder about the motivation. Is it an effort to get that elephant off their chest, to be able to share with someone, with anyone, this part of them which they deem so important to continue harboring such a crushing secret? My motivation to (potentially) share comes from an entirely different place. Let's keep it in context with this particular friend. I've kept mine hidden for this entire time. I have no real desire to get this off my chest for the sake of hanging out with him while presenting as a female. Fact of the matter is that he is getting closer to that proverbial bullseye and I have expressed a desire to be honest should he actually hit it. Might I say he doesn't have the balls to come right out and ask the question? He may be saying the exact same thing about me, that I am being evasive in the face of his little jabs. But at the end of the day, I think your perspective is certainly one to keep in mind for anyone disclosing to their guy friends but part of it comes across as a little bit Freudian in that it implies some sort of sexual tension being inherent, being perhaps inevitable. Interesting point but I'm not so sure I agree with it's applicability to my situation but again, I do think it was an important tangent to bring up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raquel June View Post
    Less authentic? You're not posting about frilly panties. You're posting about changes you're making to your everyday life to make you more feminine. You say you identify as female. Sounds pretty authentically TS to me.
    Thank you Raquel. You see it just as my transitioning/transitioned friends IRL see it. And that I do appreciate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raquel June View Post
    Not that I'm necessarily right, I really think most people who try to stay in the middle are torturing themselves and they would be better off (as far as their sanity) to go a little further to the one side of the path that they know they want to be on. Let's be honest, you're pushing pretty hard towards one side, aren't ya?

    But, if you love the woman, if you love the relationship as it is, your sacrifice may be improving your sanity, not just appeasing her.
    Yep, I'm pushing pretty hard. I've said before that my goal is to get as close to that "line" as possible without going over. The problem is that I have in fact crossed it, hence the existence of my elephant.

    Interesting point about sanity and I think you really hit the essence of where I'm coming from. There was a comment made elsewhere that said something along the lines that sacrificing one's true being by trying to stay on a middle path is a profoundly masculine thing to do. Of course I took great exception to this notion that striving to stay on a middle path is somehow akin to laying one's body on a live land mine to save the other troops from destruction. This is where an important facet of a middle path comes into play, that at the root of it there is love.

    Why is it less authentic to choose love over transition? These things do not have to be mutually exclusive but in my case they most certainly are (more below on that).

    Sometime in the next several weeks I am going to write of a friend who should have stayed on a middle path. She gambled that love would somehow find the way and apparently didn't fully understand that the odds were against this notion on so many levels. While being witness to what she went through gave me a mysterious resolve to go further down the transition path, eschewing the middle path I had already committed to. Yet at the same exact time she helps me to understand how the love in my own life is in fact good for my sanity which supports staying put on a middle path, the precise point you are making.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raquel June View Post
    OK, here's another tangent of mine. Because I never hear anybody else talk seriously about the sexual-orientation-transition you force on yourself as a married M2F.

    You kinda blame things on your wife not being comfortable with your inner female. But look at the big picture. Even if your wife is totally supportive and accepting, it's pretty weird to transition from living as a straight guy to living as a lesbian.

    Seriously. I transitioned, and within a couple months I was totally comfortable being full-time and felt that I passed just fine. Not that I'm particularly attractive, but nobody looked at me funny. But when you throw a wife/girlfriend into the mix, that's when things get hard. Because gay people making public displays of affection attract attention.

    And I'm not talking about inappropriate displays. I'm talking about subtle things. It attracts attention. It makes you self-conscious. You act more awkward. People look at you. In the end it adds up to you outing yourself as trans as soon as you out yourself as a lesbian. And you don't want to attract attention. So you show less affection towards your wife. And that puts a big strain on your relationship.

    For me, it came out of nowhere. I realized, "Wow. I guess I really don't know the appropriate way for a lesbian couple to act in public."

    And it made me realize that I had put all my energy into coming to terms with being trans but neglected to really think about what it was to be a lesbian. You're married to a straight woman. Unless she's capable of being publicly gay, and privately getting what she wants from a relationship with another woman, it's just not gonna work out.
    This one is easy. And not to lessen the validity of what you are talking about (after all, it's a major theme in the mhB books) but this doesn't apply to my situation in any way. My wife has made it crystal clear, transition = divorce.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raquel June View Post
    And even if you take her out of the equation, you need to take a long look on whether or not you can handle being a lesbian with a lesbian. Because if you don't really cope with what it is to be a woman who loves women, you're going to end up being with unstable women. I went through that for awhile. Women were intrigued by me! I'm the weird guy who's going to get a sex change! But the women I dated weren't lesbians. They were unstable women who saw me as a novelty.

    I'm just saying, being a lesbian is a huge part of the "big picture" that people tend to ignore completely when they wish they could transition. It might be a good reason to stop pushing towards the female side of the "middle path" and be happy with the relationship you have.
    This is certainly something to consider as part of a transition plan, digging deep to know exactly where one is coming from in terms of their own sexuality. At this point, it's not something that I'm overly concerned with other than remembering what my friend mentioned above said to me, that she felt she needed to keep an open mind when it came to her own sexuality because she didn't want to be alone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raquel June View Post
    Ugh! That's how I felt for so long! I didn't accept myself. I basically idealized womanhood and thought I wasn't good enough to see myself as a "real woman." It really screwed up my perspective more than I realized. It was a depressing place to be at.
    Veronica does a good job keeping me in check when it comes to the woman thing. Fact of the matter is that I accept myself to a great degree and what resides in my heart and soul is not trans, she is a woman. For better or worse, I am still seen by most, if not all people as being trans which in all likelihood would remain the case even should I ever transition (short of pure stealth). When it comes to this thing of ours, it is what it is. I guess my goal is for those who know me to think of me as their friend, perhaps their woman friend and less so their trans friend.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raquel June View Post
    Ouch.

    She might not actually hate every one of those things. She just hates that you're trying to kill off the man she married, and she hates that you're trying to invade her space in the role as the woman.

    My ex was awesome at first. She accepted me as a woman more than I accepted myself. She'd even dated a few girls. She knew how to treat a woman. She loved to go shopping with me. She gave me my estrogen injections.

    But in the end she wanted a more normal life for her and her daughters, and it was just too much for her feeling like she was losing her place as the woman.

    The bottom line is that if you're a lesbian you have to be with a woman who's OK with being a lesbian. Otherwise it's going to all hit the fan sooner or later.
    Mine hates the things these changes represent which is in fact the killing off of the guy she married.

    Of all the heartfelt advice I have received, the one thing which I intend to do is to share with her emphatically what the endgame is, that I desire to remain on this middle path with her, that transition is not an inevitable conclusion to this whole thing. Despite our efforts though, we just haven't been able to make the time to actually talk at length about this. The good news is that we're getting along which is not only a testament to her ability to compartmentalize things but also that my elephant is safely back in her cage right now.
    Last edited by Sara Jessica; 10-20-2012 at 11:34 AM.
    Like a corpse deep in the earth I'm so alone, restless thoughts torment my soul, as fears they lay confirmed, but my life has always been this way - Virginia Astley, "Some Small Hope" (1986)
    Sunlight falls, my wings open wide. There's a beauty here I cannot deny - David Sylvian, "Orpheus" (1987)

  2. #102
    I like to be pretty Joanne Curl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    The Golden State
    Posts
    965
    Sara,
    I don't know why your posts touch me so. I don't if its because you voice the things that I too am feeling but don't have the courage to address or its because of the pain I sense when I read what you've written. I have followed your journey with interest on this site and have watched as you have evolved and become more comfortable as Sara and less comfortable as your male self while trying to maintain your relationship with your wife. You've made it clear that your wife isn't supportive of your feminine side yet it continues to expand and come more to the forefront. I pray that you and your wife come to some kind of understanding that allows you to continue to be husband and wife as Sara evolves.
    Joanne

  3. #103
    Style Icon Sara Jessica's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    The OC, California
    Posts
    5,919
    A couple updates, not just for the sake of keeping this thread alive (as in unlocked) but I'm actually happy to help keep it going...

    On the home front, I have expressed exactly what I said I would, the kind of no-brainer advice that I have absorbed from the replies here. I made it crystal clear to her as to what the "endgame" is with this whole thing. Has it helped? Somewhat. I hope it has helped her as I'm sure she contemplates a future with someone who has such TG issues intertwined with every fiber of their being. She knows my goal is to stay with her.

    And a concurrent development is that I have just come up with what should prove to be an acceptable closet solution. I will be using the existing architecture by reconstructing a closet that I removed about 5 years ago. Instead of sliding doors though, I will go with six-panel bi-fold doors that I plan on locking with a keyed pocket door lockset. This will be an eight foot closet and my plan is to devote just over half of it as Sara's little slice of heavenly organization. I will install a tower of shelving and/or drawers in the center which will serve as a barrier between the two halves and the "Sara" side will remain invisible as long as her bi-fold door remains shut. I also plan on putting in one of those sliding locks at the top on the Sara side to keep the door from accidentally being opened should one of the kids go into that area while I have my regular side opened up. The tricky part will be the whole organization thing to maximize the closet bar space by doubling up but still creating room for dresses to hang properly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joanne Curl View Post
    Sara,
    I don't know why your posts touch me so. I don't if its because you voice the things that I too am feeling but don't have the courage to address or its because of the pain I sense when I read what you've written. I have followed your journey with interest on this site and have watched as you have evolved and become more comfortable as Sara and less comfortable as your male self while trying to maintain your relationship with your wife. You've made it clear that your wife isn't supportive of your feminine side yet it continues to expand and come more to the forefront. I pray that you and your wife come to some kind of understanding that allows you to continue to be husband and wife as Sara evolves.
    Joanne
    I'm so glad you have found something in my words. Of course they are cathartic for me to write but if these passages help someone else in some way, then all the better. Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts and for your prayers.
    Like a corpse deep in the earth I'm so alone, restless thoughts torment my soul, as fears they lay confirmed, but my life has always been this way - Virginia Astley, "Some Small Hope" (1986)
    Sunlight falls, my wings open wide. There's a beauty here I cannot deny - David Sylvian, "Orpheus" (1987)

  4. #104
    Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    A bit south of the 49th!
    Posts
    23,718
    Sara, take some pictures of your closet organization. it will be interesting to see how it comes together!

    To the main point, has your wife responded or given any non-verbal cues to her reaction to the "end game" as you explained it to her? I'm hoping her concerns have been eased if not entirely put to rest.

  5. #105
    Mountain Lass
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Wales UK
    Posts
    391
    I am sorry you have not had more responses from GGs.

    Whilst all these modifications may have been small beer to you, you may like to reflect on your wife and childrens' situations.

    I am currently in one of these modification periods. It isn't funny. If I try to discuss it, I am cut short, or he even denies, although I am standing there looking at the most recent modification....

    When he prefers not to discuss it, he seems to think it doesn't matter. To me it is a kind of dishonesty, not just that another modification has come my way but I am supposed to ignore it....
    To me this is a trust issue. You make light of your wife's responses and seem only to look at the relationship from your point of view.
    Of course, you would like to remain with her. But she has plans too. They involve the man she married, not the woman he wants to become.

    My husband says 'you can't see the changes most of the time...!' Or am I not entitled to a view? I currently have about 15% of the man I started with. That's not enough for me. Of couse I want him to be happy, but why doesn't he want the same for me?

    I am shocked at how different his body looks without hair. The shape is completely different. The aged, uncared-for skin is scaly and lined. His hands and nails look ridiculous. I don't want a 'lesbian' partner.

    I feel stupid now that I supported the clothing, makeup etc. I thought that was all there was. Not what I have now.

    Women can sense that there is something going on. Often you try to be distant, to cover your cding tracks, but that just makes things worse.

    Counselling might be a revelation. It would give your wife the opportunity to tell you how she really feels. You would have to confront that disdain etc

    Older children are also very good at picking up on things. Their social lives get more varied and you may find you do not have so much time to dress at home.

    Ask yourself seriously why you have pushed things so much. Your wife seems to have been sympathetic to your dressing, so why have you taken advantage so much? This is not a loving way to behave.

    She will draw her own conclusions no matter how reassuring you want to be. If you really loved her, you would tell her the truth.

  6. #106
    GG ReineD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Samsara
    Posts
    21,377
    Sorry that I missed your response to my response earlier (lost sight of the thread), but better late than never:

    Quote Originally Posted by Sara Jessica View Post
    It's society that has constructed the binary, for better or for worse.
    I disagree with this. I do not believe that gender is a construction, and the reality is that more than 95% of individuals in our society feel aligned to their birth genders. At the same time, there is a small percentage of people whose gender ID is not quite so clear cut and there is an even smaller percentage of people who feel they were born in entirely the wrong body.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sara Jessica View Post
    I have shared with many others, both IRL and in these pages, my commitment to stay on this middle path.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sara Jessica View Post
    Yes, from her POV I am on that proverbial slippery slope. She has no idea what next week, next month, or next year might bring. Heck, neither do I. But the fact remains that I am committed to staying on this path. The reason this is lost upon her? It's really quite simple, a lack of communication when it comes to this huge elephant in our relationship.
    People are either fully congruent with their birth genders, or they are transsexual and feel they were born in the wrong bodies, or they know that they are gender non-conforming and in their psyches there resides characteristics and affinities of both genders. I understand a period of time when people are exploring and do not know who they are, but you've been freely expressing Sara for a while now, and so you must know how you feel in the deepest part of yourself?

    If you are TS, you should NOT pretend that you aren't nor should you give the impression that you are staying on a middle path "for her". I don't think she wants to be married to a transsexual who is a reluctant male since as you describe, this condemns her to living a life with a male who is not fully present in his male life and also waiting for the other shoe to drop, not knowing when your proverbial bell will ring and you will feel compelled to pursue transition ... as happens with other TSs.

    If you are not a reluctant male and you feel that you embrace both male and female aspects within yourself and you cannot fathom the idea of full transition at any time in the future, then you should tell her this and also believe it within yourself, which would mean putting things back into perspective for yourself.

    You said earlier (post #30) that you would transition in a flash and by this I take it that you mean, had you known about yourself before a commitment to your marriage, kids, and your male life, you would have taken a different course. You also said that you are attached to the things you have built in your male life. To me, this means having built an appreciation for aspects of your male self and the things in life that revolve around your male self, in addition to wanting to express femininity. But to live a life having an insatiable desire to transition (which you also said) all the while living as a male a significant portion of the time seems like an unsatisfactory way to live a life while sitting on the fence. This translates, as mentioned, to not fully being present to your family members who know you as male and to also not know what might happen in the future and this is unsettling and stressful for any spouse to live with if she knows within the deepest part of herself that she is not lesbian and she cannot be married to a woman.

    Does this make sense? You need to make up your mind which way you will genuinely live your life in the future. If it involves an insatiable desire to live as a woman you need to be honest with your wife about this and accept the outcome. If it involves appreciating the things that revolve around your male life and living in both genders alternatively because of this, you need to accept and honor this and not pine away for something else.

    In my opinion.
    Reine

  7. #107
    Senior Member kimmy p's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1,018
    Are your friends treating you poorly? Are they avoiding you? If not then don;t worry about it, and if so then they are not much of a friend anyways. I have not admitted anything to my friends.... they know, they would have to be stupid not to have guessed, but not a one has treated me differently. Be yourself and do what makes you happiest.

  8. #108
    The Girl Next Door Sally24's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    3,624
    Quote Originally Posted by ReineD View Post
    You need to make up your mind which way you will genuinely live your life in the future. If it involves an insatiable desire to live as a woman you need to be honest with your wife about this and accept the outcome. If it involves appreciating the things that revolve around your male life and living in both genders alternatively because of this, you need to accept and honor this and not pine away for something else.

    In my opinion.
    Ideally this would be the outcome for all of us. Unfortunately that is far from easy. I myself am mostly happy with the middle path but there is no way to discount or eliminate that pining for something more. By the time you reach midlife you are aware that it is almost impossible to "have it all" regardless of what you are talking about. Everything is about compromise. You may be able to temper your desires with the logic of your choices but.........those alternatives will still linger in the back of your mind. The courage to choose one path even though it is less than ideal, and then stick with that choice is what shows our character. I think it takes as much courage to choose the path to transition as it does to stay in a "part-time" life. Both require determination and sacrifice, although different types. Here's to both types of courage!
    Sally

  9. #109
    GG ReineD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Samsara
    Posts
    21,377
    Thanks, Sally. I was not suggesting that one choice is more or less courageous than the other. My point was, if a TG/middlepather chooses to live as a man who expresses femininity occasionally, the bottom line is that this is the TG's choice and so why pine away? Why place all the responsibility on Loved Ones for choosing to not transition, when the TG also gains benefit from not transitioning, in other words, it is the TG's choice?

    One of my fundamental beliefs is, we can choose how we will look at things. It's a glass full or half empty situation. We can choose to worry or not worry, to be jealous or not be jealous, to trust or not to trust, to let go of anger, disappointment, or not let go, etc. And our moods and behaviors will follow your thoughts. It's not the other way around. So if a TG makes a conscious decision that s/he will maintain a male life which also means that s/he reaps some of the benefits, then why decide to pine away for something that s/he herself decided to not pursue? Why not instead celebrate every moment of life, whether the moment is spent in guy or girl mode?

    Of course, if she is TS then it will not be possible. But then if she is miserable living as a man, how miserable must her family members be while living with her?

    I only intimately know how my SO feels and how she has chosen to live her life and the question I raise above is based on my direct observation of my SO, who also looked into HRT, FFS, transition, and having relationships with men in the past. It just seems that my SO is a lot happier having decided on a course of action and taking pleasure in all aspects of his and her life following this decision, than someone who decides on the same course of action and dooms themselves to forever having insatiable desires for a state of being that s/he herself has decided to not pursue.
    Reine

  10. #110
    The Girl Next Door Sally24's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    3,624
    Oh I mostly agree with you Reine. I was just saying that there is only so much control you have over your own thoughts. Having made choices, I still wonder on what the alternatives might have been. I find it nearly impossible not to think of them.
    Sally

  11. #111
    Fashionista VeronicaMoonlit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Central Illinois
    Posts
    2,111
    This is going to be one of the hardest posts to write.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sara Jessica View Post
    I made it crystal clear to her as to what the "endgame" is with this whole thing.
    What is the endgame? What did you say to her...exactly. Did you "use the words", and by words I mean THE word...transsexual?

    what should prove to be an acceptable closet solution.
    Well that's good news.

    I also plan on putting in one of those sliding locks at the top on the Sara side to keep the door from accidentally being opened should one of the kids go into that area while I have my regular side opened up.
    I really hate saying this: It's time for them to know. They deserve to know...and it will make logistics easier and it is better for them to be "told" by both of you than to accidentally find something or figure out the elephant themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by kimdl93 View Post
    To the main point, has your wife responded or given any non-verbal cues to her reaction to the "end game" as you explained it to her?
    Yes, this...what was her response.

    Quote Originally Posted by Allsteamedup View Post
    I am sorry you have not had more responses from GGs.
    Me too.

    Whilst all these modifications may have been small beer to you
    They're small...individually, but they add up into a pretty darn big elephant.

    When he prefers not to discuss it, he seems to think it doesn't matter. To me it is a kind of dishonesty, not just that another modification has come my way but I am supposed to ignore it....
    To me this is a trust issue.
    It's DADT (don't ask don't tell)....it's the path of least resistance. Talking about it means talking about scary things and admitting what the things mean. The transperson is scared....they want the thing...but are afraid that if they said outright what they wanted, everything would come crashing down. So they do the thing...and expect to not be noticed or for the partner to not discuss it because they know the partner doesn't really want to talk about it either. The DADT goes both ways.

    My husband says 'you can't see the changes most of the time...!' Or am I not entitled to a view? I currently have about 15% of the man I started with. That's not enough for me. Of couse I want him to be happy, but why doesn't he want the same for me?
    He does want you to be happy. But he's thinking 15 percent man, is better than 0 percent man if you got divorced. He's thinking that 85 percent woman that still lets him have 100 percent of you and the kids is better than 100 percent woman that might lead to 0 percent you and kids. Most of us have seen the horror stories where transistioners lose all acess to their children.

    I don't want a 'lesbian' partner.
    I'm going to ask you a question. Do you say that? Do you say: "I don't want a lesbian partner, and that's what you are. I would be happier with a male and you would be happier with another lesbian"

    The problem is, she fell in love with you because in some ways, she was always the lesbian...you just didn't know about it. It sucks, I know.

    I feel stupid now that I supported the clothing, makeup etc. I thought that was all there was. Not what I have now.
    You're not stupid....you didn't know. In fact, your transperson probably didn't know either, perhaps being too scared to fully examine their own feelings.

    Counselling might be a revelation. It would give your wife the opportunity to tell you how she really feels. You would have to confront that disdain etc
    I agree.

    Older children are also very good at picking up on things. Their social lives get more varied and you may find you do not have so much time to dress at home.
    Which is why I think Sara should tell the children.

    Ask yourself seriously why you have pushed things so much. Your wife seems to have been sympathetic to your dressing, so why have you taken advantage so much?
    Sara knows... I know. It's just hard for her to "say it"

    She will draw her own conclusions no matter how reassuring you want to be. If you really loved her, you would tell her the truth.
    What truth is that? Rhetorical question I know...since we're stepping around the truth....even me.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReineD View Post
    I understand a period of time when people are exploring and do not know who they are, but you've been freely expressing Sara for a while now, and so you must know how you feel in the deepest part of yourself?
    I'm laughing and crying at the same time, Reine. Not laughing AT you but at the situation.

    It's easy to both "know" and "not know" at the same time. Hell, I knew I was TS, in what was it? late 80's I think. But.... I was in a depressive state of mind, what I call now the "Dark Times", so I pushed it out of my "decision tree" so I wouldn't feel even more depressed. Hell, I'm STILL trying to keep it out of my mind to a certain extent so I don't cry all the time. It's a sort of "It's unlikely to actually happen so try not to think about that too much." Which is rather sad, since I have my hormone letter....but haven't used it, though it makes me feel better just having it.

    If you are TS, you should NOT pretend that you aren't nor should you give the impression that you are staying on a middle path "for her". I don't think she wants to be married to a transsexual who is a reluctant male since as you describe, this condemns her to living a life with a male who is not fully present in his male life and also waiting for the other shoe to drop, not knowing when your proverbial bell will ring and you will feel compelled to pursue transition ... as happens with other TSs.
    This...very much this. Sara....please, don't do this. It isn't fair or honest to you, or her. I know that you don't want to lose her and the kids, and you're afraid that if you transition, you'll lose acess, but....you're essentially trying to have most of your cake (Sara) and eating it too (wife). This whole situation is the reason I'm all about telling before marriage, to try to prevent the heartbreak of "this"

    You said earlier (post #30) that you would transition in a flash and by this I take it that you mean, had you known about yourself before a commitment to your marriage, kids, and your male life, you would have taken a different course.
    Yes.

    You also said that you are attached to the things you have built in your male life. To me, this means having built an appreciation for aspects of your male self and the things in life that revolve around your male self, in addition to wanting to express femininity.

    I see it differently. I see it as young Sara the TS, (who perhaps didn't even have the words for how she felt) wanting a female partner and family but thinking the "other" thing would forever put that out of the picture. So how to get a female partner and family? Try to hide away, to try to fake being male...to have the love she wanted.

    I'm lucky in that sense...my self esteem was/is low enough that I never saw myself worthy of being dated, let alone loved...so I haven't. So I never fell into the trap like others have....i just have a different trap.


    Does this make sense?
    Yes, it does.

    If it involves appreciating the things that revolve around your male life and living in both genders alternatively because of this, you need to accept and honor this and not pine away for something else.
    Sara knows... and she thinks she can do that...without pining away. Maybe she can, but my gut tells me she will not. But the sad fact is...this happens quite a bit...and we usually do see pining. I don't want Sara in 20 years, after the kids have grown up...regretting her decision. Now right at this sentence, Sara is thinking: "How can I regret being with the kids as they grow...if I do you know what, I will lose the kids and lose that."

    Quote Originally Posted by Sally24 View Post
    but there is no way to discount or eliminate that pining for something more. You may be able to temper your desires with the logic of your choices but.........those alternatives will still linger in the back of your mind.
    This.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReineD View Post
    My point was, if a TG/middlepather chooses to live as a man who expresses femininity occasionally, the bottom line is that this is the TG's choice and so why pine away?
    They pine because they're not true middle-pathers...they're TS's who are "settling"

    Why place all the responsibility on Loved Ones for choosing to not transition, when the TG also gains benefit from not transitioning, in other words, it is the TG's choice?
    It's easier that way. No big public divorce, no messy custody battles, it's the path of least resistance. The "other thing" is scary and leads to the unknown. At least the pining away is knowable.

    It just seems that my SO is a lot happier having decided on a course of action and taking pleasure in all aspects of his and her life following this decision, than someone who decides on the same course of action and dooms themselves to forever having insatiable desires for a state of being that s/he herself has decided to not pursue.
    Indeed, which is why I am specifically saying, right now, as Sara's #1 frame-dragging, slippery-slope encouraging cheerleader:

    Sara, don't do this to yourself.

    Though one of the reasons Sara IS doing this is because she personally knew and was friends with Christine Daniels....who's transition.. "did not go well". Probably scared her

    Sara, that was her, you are you. The mistake Christine made wasn't the transitioning in and of itself...it was what she did after.

    Veronica
    Last edited by VeronicaMoonlit; 11-12-2012 at 11:05 PM.
    If you believe in it, makeup has a magic all it's own -- Sooner or Later (TV movie)
    We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be?- Marianne Williamson
    Have I also not said that "This Thing of Ours" makes some of us a bit "Barefoot in the Head"? Well, it does.

  12. #112
    Silver Member Raquel June's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    midwest
    Posts
    2,383
    Quote Originally Posted by ReineD View Post
    If you are TS, you should NOT pretend that you aren't nor should you give the impression that you are staying on a middle path "for her". I don't think she wants to be married to a transsexual who is a reluctant male since as you describe, this condemns her to living a life with a male who is not fully present in his male life and also waiting for the other shoe to drop, not knowing when your proverbial bell will ring and you will feel compelled to pursue transition ... as happens with other TSs.
    Like V said, this is true/important/etc.

    I guess it just depends which one is more needy/dependant in the relationship, but so many people here seem to be either torturing themselves by trying to appease a spouse who doesn't approve of who they really are, or they're torturing their spouse by just constantly pushing their pseudo-transition further and further.

    "I would transition in a second if..." and then there is the excuse for being afraid.

    I've lived this all too much to be aggressively critical of it, though. I can sit here all day and assure people that all the happy ones out there are saying, "Why didn't I get over my fears sooner?" But, in the end, this is a pretty intense struggle we go through in our own minds, feeling crazy, feeling narcissistic, feeling like we're throwing so much away no matter what we do, and honestly not being able to put our finger on how important our trans-ness is in the grand scheme of things. We don't want to rock the boat, but we need to rock the boat. And it feels more like instability and sabotaging your own life.

    In the end, we all need to realize that denying your trans-ness will not make you any happier than a gay guy denying his gay-ness and staying married. Sure, you've got this wonderful friend that you love, but you're both missing out on so much of life by not being honest. But there's not much you can say to someone who looks in the mirror now and then and says, "Hey, dumbass, do you really want to ruin what you have so you can pursue this dream of being a weirdo?"

    Because people are afraid of change. And often confused about the value of what they have vs. the potential of what they could have.

    You can get over loss. But having to live everyday with not taking a chance that you know you should is rough.

    It's hard to see the reality of your own life and relationships. If people can be in abusive relationships and convince themselves they need that relationship, what hope does someone have who is in a kinda-OK relationship where the only real issue is that your wife wants to be with a guy and you hate living as a guy?

    If these kinds of relationships could find a happy compromise, that would be awesome, but it always seems more like a middle-ground where everybody is unhappy. And the years go on.

  13. #113
    Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    A bit south of the 49th!
    Posts
    23,718
    After reading the last few comments, the thought came to me that people 'settle' all the time. We learn to live with, in some cases to endure all manner of disappointment and limitations. Sometimes we live as virtual prisoners of our unique realities. I know it takes enormous courage to confront the reality of being TS in the face of all that one potentially puts at risk. So I can't fault anyone who tries to accommodate themselves to their situation by half measures and incremental changes.

    Will it work? Maybe, maybe not. Life is a continuous game of chance.

  14. #114
    Style Icon Sara Jessica's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    The OC, California
    Posts
    5,919
    Quote Originally Posted by Allsteamedup View Post
    I am sorry you have not had more responses from GGs.
    I am too but Reine has been here for me, posing some challenging thoughts (including her most recent ones, quite the zingers that I will need to respond to as well). I'm glad you have shared yours.

    Quote Originally Posted by Allsteamedup View Post
    Whilst all these modifications may have been small beer to you, you may like to reflect on your wife and childrens' situations.
    Trust me, I am not running around thinking these things are small. Fact of the matter is that we are talking about the entire essence of my little "elephant" theory. I have piled on. I have crossed a line. I get that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Allsteamedup View Post
    I am currently in one of these modification periods. It isn't funny. If I try to discuss it, I am cut short, or he even denies, although I am standing there looking at the most recent modification....
    I will talk about it any time she wishes to do so. The problem is that it sometimes degenerates and lately there have been two discussions that have turned quite nasty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Allsteamedup View Post
    When he prefers not to discuss it, he seems to think it doesn't matter. To me it is a kind of dishonesty, not just that another modification has come my way but I am supposed to ignore it....To me this is a trust issue. You make light of your wife's responses and seem only to look at the relationship from your point of view.
    I have never made light of anything regarding my wife's POV. I have absolute empathy for her situation. It can suck more often than not to be married to someone who is TG, whether a CD'er or otherwise. And it sucks beyond belief that my dear wife, the love of my life, the mother of my children, has to put up with this. I often wonder why she does so and it comes down to love.

    But guess what? Although I cherish the POV that comes with being TG (because it is all I have ever known), it sucks to be this way as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Allsteamedup View Post
    Of course, you would like to remain with her. But she has plans too. They involve the man she married, not the woman he wants to become.
    I think our mutual plan is "til death do us part".

    Quote Originally Posted by Allsteamedup View Post
    My husband says 'you can't see the changes most of the time...!' Or am I not entitled to a view? I currently have about 15% of the man I started with. That's not enough for me. Of couse I want him to be happy, but why doesn't he want the same for me?
    This is where things get tricky and where many TG's get quite defensive, saying stuff like "it's my body, I can do what I wish" (technically true) or "I'm still the same guy underneath" (utter BS).

    My elephant has evolved over time and has settled into this place we find ourselves in now. My changes are not in an effort to enhance some sort of dressing experience as you imply (although what they do for my feminine presentation is an undeniable by-product). Rather, my changes have been made in an effort to bring my outward appearance more in line with what is in my heart. You see, you and I are very similar in that what we feel at the core of our being is essentially the same. The difference is that your outward appearance doesn't betray you while mine does. And at the same time, the dissonance that I feel is ever-present and can be crushing. Such is the life of one with GID. Reine speaks of this when she talks about 95+% of people giving no second thought to their gender. What I would give to experience that feeling. The closest I come is when I am out as a female and the outside world meshes with my inner self to create these joyous moments of being when all seems right, when all is at absolute peace.

    When presenting as a guy, as I do 95+% of the time, I am capable of coming very close to those moments but bubbling underneath the surface is the ever-present gender issue just waiting for any trigger to become louder. Anything can set it off. It's not about "boo-hoo I cannot dress up". Instead, it's "I cannot be". This is the most difficult thing for anyone who is not TG to get their head around, being uncomfortable in your own skin from a gender perspective. It's something I dare to say you give no second thought to, yet it's something that I probably have to deal with thousands of times per day, both on a conscious and subconscious level. Yes, the white noise is always there, it's just a matter of how loud it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Allsteamedup View Post
    I am shocked at how different his body looks without hair. The shape is completely different. The aged, uncared-for skin is scaly and lined. His hands and nails look ridiculous. I don't want a 'lesbian' partner.
    This is hard to respond to because you are describing a visceral reaction to your SO's presentation which is quite valid. And only recently have I seen the same kind of reaction out of my wife.

    What am I doing about it? Nothing right now other than to make sure I keep the nails short (why pile on even more?) and I try to keep my hair in a pony whenever we're together.

    People change as they get older. Their appearance changes. They might gain weight. There comes a point in time where one might bear little resemblance to the person they were when they got married. The thing is, those changes usually don't include efforts to feminize the typical male appearance. I can give no advice on how to cope with your SO's changes because your reaction is what it is. I will not say he is the same guy underneath it all. I cannot say you'll get used to it. But at the same time I cannot suggest that he revert back. There has to be some middle ground there but I'm the last person to see it, seems how I've pretty much ignored where the middle ground is on this subject in my own relationship.

    Quote Originally Posted by Allsteamedup View Post
    I feel stupid now that I supported the clothing, makeup etc. I thought that was all there was. Not what I have now.
    What is different now? Is your SO a CD? From what you describe it sounds as if he is still a CD.

    My situation was in fact different. I've said before that I disclosed prior to getting married. Heck, it was before we even got engaged. But I allowed her to believe it was a "dressing" thing and it was much later into our marriage when I confessed it was a TS thing. I may be wrong about this but I'd think it would be easier to manage the CDing in a relationship context than having a partner who is TS, body modifications notwithstanding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Allsteamedup View Post
    Women can sense that there is something going on. Often you try to be distant, to cover your cding tracks, but that just makes things worse. Counseling might be a revelation. It would give your wife the opportunity to tell you how she really feels. You would have to confront that disdain etc
    If she felt a need for counseling, I'd be all for it.

    Our level of DADT is based on her non-participation in all of this. That is, we don't have a communication issue beyond the gist of this whole thing. Instead, she doesn't wish to see it and it's not like I come home from an outing and saying "hey honey, guess what I did" or "look at what I bought".

    But what has become undeniable is that she has been holding back on some of her feelings. That is something which could benefit from counseling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Allsteamedup View Post
    Older children are also very good at picking up on things. Their social lives get more varied and you may find you do not have so much time to dress at home.
    This is true but it's not like I get a lot of alone time at home right now. This is one of the reasons my quiet time in the mornings are so important.

    Quote Originally Posted by Allsteamedup View Post
    Ask yourself seriously why you have pushed things so much. Your wife seems to have been sympathetic to your dressing, so why have you taken advantage so much? This is not a loving way to behave.
    If I have taken advantage, then so be it. It wouldn't be unreasonable for her to see it that way.

    Why have I done so? If one is feminine in their heart, why does it matter what the outside looks like?

    Because it does. Simple as that.

    My biggest revelation has been the long hair. Even in guy mode it helps me to see the woman within. The problem is that my wife can see that too which is why I try to keep it ponied around her.

    Quote Originally Posted by Allsteamedup View Post
    She will draw her own conclusions no matter how reassuring you want to be. If you really loved her, you would tell her the truth.
    Like I said, she knows the truth.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReineD View Post
    I disagree with this. I do not believe that gender is a construction, and the reality is that more than 95% of individuals in our society feel aligned to their birth genders. At the same time, there is a small percentage of people whose gender ID is not quite so clear cut and there is an even smaller percentage of people who feel they were born in entirely the wrong body.
    I phrased that wrong Reine. I guess a way to blend the sentiments is that 95+% of people out there feel aligned to their birth genders and as a result, society simply tends to reinforce the binary which is all good for those 95+% who have no issues with their gender.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReineD View Post
    People are either fully congruent with their birth genders, or they are transsexual and feel they were born in the wrong bodies, or they know that they are gender non-conforming and in their psyches there resides characteristics and affinities of both genders. I understand a period of time when people are exploring and do not know who they are, but you've been freely expressing Sara for a while now, and so you must know how you feel in the deepest part of yourself?
    Yes, I do.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReineD View Post
    If you are TS, you should NOT pretend that you aren't nor should you give the impression that you are staying on a middle path "for her". I don't think she wants to be married to a transsexual who is a reluctant male since as you describe, this condemns her to living a life with a male who is not fully present in his male life and also waiting for the other shoe to drop, not knowing when your proverbial bell will ring and you will feel compelled to pursue transition ... as happens with other TSs.
    This reminds me of a post in the TS section which suggested that someone who eschews transition for the sake of their family is the most masculine of endeavors. It came across as if such a path was akin to laying down on a land mine in order to save others and it was contrasted by an example of the nurturing sacrifice that is often made by women. While these two examples might be worlds apart, I reject the notion that I am laying on a land mine and am therefore exhibiting a fundamentally male behavior in my decision making process. I am where I am for the sake of everyone involved. I am not martyring myself in this whole thing. I am simply considering the bigger picture.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReineD View Post
    If you are not a reluctant male and you feel that you embrace both male and female aspects within yourself and you cannot fathom the idea of full transition at any time in the future, then you should tell her this and also believe it within yourself, which would mean putting things back into perspective for yourself.

    You said earlier (post #30) that you would transition in a flash and by this I take it that you mean, had you known about yourself before a commitment to your marriage, kids, and your male life, you would have taken a different course. You also said that you are attached to the things you have built in your male life. To me, this means having built an appreciation for aspects of your male self and the things in life that revolve around your male self, in addition to wanting to express femininity. But to live a life having an insatiable desire to transition (which you also said) all the while living as a male a significant portion of the time seems like an unsatisfactory way to live a life while sitting on the fence. This translates, as mentioned, to not fully being present to your family members who know you as male and to also not know what might happen in the future and this is unsettling and stressful for any spouse to live with if she knows within the deepest part of herself that she is not lesbian and she cannot be married to a woman.

    Does this make sense? You need to make up your mind which way you will genuinely live your life in the future. If it involves an insatiable desire to live as a woman you need to be honest with your wife about this and accept the outcome. If it involves appreciating the things that revolve around your male life and living in both genders alternatively because of this, you need to accept and honor this and not pine away for something else.

    In my opinion.
    Let's get back to what a "middle path" means to me, and could mean to a lot who identify as TS. Transition is not the only valid path for us. One can choose not to transition for a myriad of reasons. My choice is rooted in the fact that I have found fulfillment in the male side of my life (my family being the most important aspect of this), just as I have found a different kind of fulfillment as a female. I am not TS in a classic sense that I grew up with absolute hatred of my body. Instead, I grew up with a lack of information and as such, I pretty much went with the flow and lived a life consistent with what I witnessed going on around me.

    I could formally transition tomorrow and everything could be hunky dory. I could do so and I could blow up every aspect of my life including the standard of living of my children (as I am a sole provider, something which I don't think I have mentioned before). Transition in my case would be the most selfish of decisions. The only thing which would be more selfish is suicide and if my darkest moments ever became darker to the point where that was a consideration, then that may very well prove to be my own personal bell.

    Am I pining to transition? No, I don't think I am. Is the thought on my mind often? You bet. But so is the thought of staying on this path of mine. There is a difference between coping and pining which is part of the reason I enjoy writing about all of this, because it is a coping mechanism.

    Is such an existence fair to my wife and family? It seems to beat the alternative from all points of view. The best thing I can do is NOT to let any darkness enter my soul which can be detected by my family. Sometimes easier said than done.

    Is this fair to me? Because I am able to find fulfillment in the guy side of my life, then yes, it's fair. Is sacrifice involved? Absolutely.

    I was in a store the other day and I saw the cutest older couple, they were both just adorable. What pains me is that I cannot see myself clearly in that picture. While no one is guaranteed anything specific in their future, it is still unsettling that the dream of growing old with the one you love might not be the given that it should be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sally24 View Post
    Ideally this would be the outcome for all of us. Unfortunately that is far from easy. I myself am mostly happy with the middle path but there is no way to discount or eliminate that pining for something more. By the time you reach midlife you are aware that it is almost impossible to "have it all" regardless of what you are talking about. Everything is about compromise. You may be able to temper your desires with the logic of your choices but.........those alternatives will still linger in the back of your mind. The courage to choose one path even though it is less than ideal, and then stick with that choice is what shows our character. I think it takes as much courage to choose the path to transition as it does to stay in a "part-time" life. Both require determination and sacrifice, although different types. Here's to both types of courage!
    Nicely said Sally, thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by VeronicaMoonlit View Post
    Everything she said...
    Quote Originally Posted by Raquel June View Post
    Everything she said as well.
    I'm out of time, I'll respond soon.
    Like a corpse deep in the earth I'm so alone, restless thoughts torment my soul, as fears they lay confirmed, but my life has always been this way - Virginia Astley, "Some Small Hope" (1986)
    Sunlight falls, my wings open wide. There's a beauty here I cannot deny - David Sylvian, "Orpheus" (1987)

  15. #115
    GG ReineD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Samsara
    Posts
    21,377
    Quote Originally Posted by Sara Jessica View Post
    I am too but Reine has been here for me, posing some challenging thoughts (including her most recent ones, quite the zingers that I will need to respond to as well).
    I'm sorry, Sara. My comments were not meant to zing. I had gotten the impression that you felt uncomfortable living as a man and are choosing a course of action in order to make your wife happy, which although initially may appear as the right thing to do, does not seem as if it would be satisfactory for either you or your wife in the long run. This describes a situation where your exterior actions don't match your inner reality and in my own, personal experience (not related to gender), this is an unbearable way to live. I was trying to understand how it is possible to compromise oneself like this in the long term.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sara Jessica View Post
    My choice is rooted in the fact that I have found fulfillment in the male side of my life (my family being the most important aspect of this), just as I have found a different kind of fulfillment as a female. I am not TS in a classic sense that I grew up with absolute hatred of my body.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sara Jessica View Post
    Am I pining to transition? No, I don't think I am. Is the thought on my mind often? You bet. But so is the thought of staying on this path of mine. There is a difference between coping and pining which is part of the reason I enjoy writing about all of this, because it is a coping mechanism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sara Jessica View Post
    Is such an existence fair to my wife and family? It seems to beat the alternative from all points of view. The best thing I can do is NOT to let any darkness enter my soul which can be detected by my family. Sometimes easier said than done.

    Is this fair to me? Because I am able to find fulfillment in the guy side of my life, then yes, it's fair. Is sacrifice involved? Absolutely.
    OK, fair enough. I misunderstood, based on your statement that you have an insatiable desire to be female. If you find peace and joy in both your gender expressions because this is who you feel you are, then I agree that the middle path is absolutely the best available option. It is also the path that my own SO has chosen, which s/he chose long before s/he met me.

    Thank you for your patient and considerate responses.
    Reine

  16. #116
    Style Icon Sara Jessica's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    The OC, California
    Posts
    5,919
    Quote Originally Posted by ReineD View Post
    I'm sorry, Sara. My comments were not meant to zing. I had gotten the impression that you felt uncomfortable living as a man and are choosing a course of action in order to make your wife happy, which although initially may appear as the right thing to do, does not seem as if it would be satisfactory for either you or your wife in the long run. This describes a situation where your exterior actions don't match your inner reality and in my own, personal experience (not related to gender), this is an unbearable way to live. I was trying to understand how it is possible to compromise oneself like this in the long term.
    No Reine, I'm sorry...I meant that in a good way, that your comments were zingers.

    I see this like the advice I received from a friend regarding counselors. You want to find one who will challenge you. I see many of your comments as being very insightful and challenging at the same time and there is so much value in that.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReineD View Post
    OK, fair enough. I misunderstood, based on your statement that you have an insatiable desire to be female. If you find peace and joy in both your gender expressions because this is who you feel you are, then I agree that the middle path is absolutely the best available option. It is also the path that my own SO has chosen, which s/he chose long before s/he met me.

    Thank you for your patient and considerate responses.
    Yes, the desire to be female is insatiable in that the only way to satisfy the need would be to transition which we know is a place I'm doing my best to avoid. For me, for my situation, transition would be trading one set of issues for an entirely new one and this is really the root of my intent to stay on this path of mine. It has to do with where I compromise because no matter what decision I make, there is tremendous compromise involved. Both paths are tremendously difficult.

    So in my present situation, we all know that one day things might become unbearable, where the compromise chosen is untenable to the point where taking the other path becomes not only a viable option but one necessary for my survival. Heck, the odds might be against me on this one but I do feel it's important to give this a shot.
    Like a corpse deep in the earth I'm so alone, restless thoughts torment my soul, as fears they lay confirmed, but my life has always been this way - Virginia Astley, "Some Small Hope" (1986)
    Sunlight falls, my wings open wide. There's a beauty here I cannot deny - David Sylvian, "Orpheus" (1987)

  17. #117
    Style Icon Sara Jessica's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    The OC, California
    Posts
    5,919

    Just a little update to bring this thread back into view...

    Things are good. Surprisingly good. It reminds me of what my wife and I are capable of, such happiness on both sides. But as has been the case throughout our marriage, the swings of the pendulum have been more dramatic than they would be if the TG issues weren't present. There is part of me which acknowledges this, that the current state of bliss isn't necessarily a permanent one. But there was a time not all that long ago when I thought that finding that state of perpetual happiness was somehow dependent on my wife finally "getting" me. That being willing to hang out with me while presenting as female and opening the floodgates of communication would be the ticket. These days, I don't believe these things are necessary. I think I "get" her in that I have a better understanding of what she is going through and sometimes it's better not to force an issue which might be part of some fantastical ideal, my elephant notwithstanding of course.

    So all that said, here we are in the hustle & bustle of the holiday season. Things have been busy on so many fronts that my head is spinning. What happened this weekend though was kind of interesting when looked at in the context of our version of DADT.

    Friday night, we were going to this holiday dinner with colleagues who I work with at an amazing restaurant. My wife was lamenting that she didn't have anything to wear so as I sometimes do, I retreated into my "closet" and pulled out this cute black Calvin Klein dress which I bought around this time last year but had yet to wear. I loved the style but it is a size small. It fit me but honestly, a medium would have been better so it has gone unworn ever since. Of course it fit her much better and she looked beautiful. The dress is hers now.

    Fast forward to Saturday night. She had bought a couple dresses for a Christmas party but neither were working out so well. Back to my bag of tricks where I found this purple Max Studio dress which I had purchased on Black Friday. This time I had two of them. I gave her the medium which still had the Nordstrom tags on it. This one fit me well enough but I liked the dress so much that I found it in large which worked a bit better for me (go figure the sizing thing, we've gone from small to large and everywhere in between). This dress was even better than Friday's. She looked amazing, like a jewel among her wonderful friends who have known one another over 20 years.

    The moral of the story, sometimes it can be helpful having an elephant in the house .

    ps - VM & Raquel, I still owe you replies.
    Like a corpse deep in the earth I'm so alone, restless thoughts torment my soul, as fears they lay confirmed, but my life has always been this way - Virginia Astley, "Some Small Hope" (1986)
    Sunlight falls, my wings open wide. There's a beauty here I cannot deny - David Sylvian, "Orpheus" (1987)

  18. #118
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    292
    Besides singing show tunes I think your elephant may have started to tap dance a little.

  19. #119
    GG ReineD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Samsara
    Posts
    21,377
    Quote Originally Posted by Sara Jessica View Post
    This dress was even better than Friday's. She looked amazing, like a jewel ...
    OK, so do you hire yourself out as an image consultant/personal shopper for friends on this board too? I could use a little "looking amazing, like a jewel" myself.
    Reine

  20. #120
    Style Icon Sara Jessica's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    The OC, California
    Posts
    5,919
    Quote Originally Posted by ReineD View Post
    OK, so do you hire yourself out as an image consultant/personal shopper for friends on this board too? I could use a little "looking amazing, like a jewel" myself.
    Not to toot my own horn or anything but that very thing has been suggested to me in the past, or even to write some sort of column. I've always kind of shrugged it off.

    Does it make it any sweeter that the dress came from Nordstrom Rack for only $17.90 (regular $98)??? Now THAT is something I really enjoy, finding deals of the century like this. Yet it is most certainly the reason my closet situation has been such an issue. I can't win for winning, can i???
    Like a corpse deep in the earth I'm so alone, restless thoughts torment my soul, as fears they lay confirmed, but my life has always been this way - Virginia Astley, "Some Small Hope" (1986)
    Sunlight falls, my wings open wide. There's a beauty here I cannot deny - David Sylvian, "Orpheus" (1987)

  21. #121
    Silver Member Rogina B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ft Lauderdale Fl
    Posts
    3,962
    Sharing clothes is the easy part,isn't it? Many of us try to balance in order to keep everyone happy and the financial part of blowing up ourselves to start over is often the factor that keeps us balancing.My experience with kids is that they take their cue from Mom..if Mom is cool,then they are cool.The eyeliner or mascara incident reinforces that..My daughter has known Rogina since age 5 and goes to the grocery store in our area with her "Aunt Rogina"[in case she bumps into school friends].It has been years now since she had any curiosity in my closet. At 11 now,she helps me hang up clothes and often asks if I have anything she can wear. However,the acceptance comes back to her mother's attitude. To my Venezuelan wife who enjoys "being looked at",Rogina represents a third girl in her house.Sometimes this guest is more wanted than others,but she has accepted that Rogina is a big part of me and that isn't going away.I too,at this point,am the sole provider and perhaps that is a big factor..[you think?] My wife is Venezuelan and was raised Catholic.To her thinking,we just get painted with the "wide brush" that covers gay and gender deviants in the Latin countries. It's "your world" is how she refers to us and says that she "has" to accept it,cause it obviously is not going away. However,my daughter sees it as an American liberal minded kid that is accepting of people's diversity and has told me so.I don't want to blow up my world as I would only feel I had been selfish,afterwards.
    It SURE is my hair ! I have the receipt and the box it came in !

  22. #122
    Aspiring Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Central FL
    Posts
    673
    That's good stuff!! Hey keep it up at least they haven't disowned you! I know my elephant is beating its way out but i am stepping on it tryin.g my best to hold it in to fam and friends.

  23. #123
    Member joan47's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Melbourne Beach Fl
    Posts
    396
    Jamie , add me to your list with Butterfly Bill and sissy Stephanie
    I am a feminine male

    In male mode I

    Have pierced ears
    thin arched eyebrows
    long arylic nails
    shave all over
    necklace
    braclet
    Wear leggings with boots, tight boot cut jeans, or skinny jeans or jeggings
    girls tops and coats

  24. #124
    Style Icon Sara Jessica's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    The OC, California
    Posts
    5,919
    Quote Originally Posted by rogina garter View Post
    Sharing clothes is the easy part,isn't it? Many of us try to balance in order to keep everyone happy and the financial part of blowing up ourselves to start over is often the factor that keeps us balancing.My experience with kids is that they take their cue from Mom..if Mom is cool,then they are cool.The eyeliner or mascara incident reinforces that..My daughter has known Rogina since age 5 and goes to the grocery store in our area with her "Aunt Rogina"[in case she bumps into school friends].It has been years now since she had any curiosity in my closet. At 11 now,she helps me hang up clothes and often asks if I have anything she can wear. However,the acceptance comes back to her mother's attitude. To my Venezuelan wife who enjoys "being looked at",Rogina represents a third girl in her house.Sometimes this guest is more wanted than others,but she has accepted that Rogina is a big part of me and that isn't going away.I too,at this point,am the sole provider and perhaps that is a big factor..[you think?] My wife is Venezuelan and was raised Catholic.To her thinking,we just get painted with the "wide brush" that covers gay and gender deviants in the Latin countries. It's "your world" is how she refers to us and says that she "has" to accept it,cause it obviously is not going away. However,my daughter sees it as an American liberal minded kid that is accepting of people's diversity and has told me so.I don't want to blow up my world as I would only feel I had been selfish,afterwards.
    Very interesting comments Rogina, thank you so much for sharing. And you'll see a very minor segue in the words that follow....

    Update time, it's been a while. My Elephant has been behaving pretty well of late. And things at home have been overall terrific. Still, there is the occasional comment from my wife, "when are you going to cut your hair?" which comes and goes out of the blue with no real resolution. She voices her displeasure, I either say now's not the time to talk about it or I say something that resigns her to the fact that I'm not gonna cut it.

    Or am I?

    Let this be the moment I proclaim in writing, HAIR TODAY GONE TOMORROW. Yes, I'm going to cut it. I have thought seriously about this for a while now, it's time. But before anyone thinks I am going to familiarize myself with my wig once again, that is not going to happen as long as the follicles on top of my head continue to do their job. Going on three years without a wig, it'd be really hard to go back there. Instead, I am going to take my style back to somewhere between post #3 & picture 2 in post #8 of this thread...

    http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...ion&highlight=

    With a nod to picture 1 in post #16. You see, every step of the way on my hair journey has made me think "wow, I can really live with this" yet the next steps have always been that much better. Yes, I will miss my hair cascading down my back. And it will grow back if I choose to go back down that road. In the meantime, I'm going to give this a try.

    Yesterday I spent about a half hour talking to one of my stylists and I told her my plan. She understands me 1000% and even though she knows the pain that is going into this decision, with her help I will still be able to manage a 100% natural & feminine hairstyle which can better transition to work in guy mode. She has about three months to think about it because this is all going to happen after the Diva Las Vegas trip in April. It will be bittersweet for sure but I think I can do this. And even better, I have enough to donate to Locks of Love.

    So yesterday evening my wife and I had a date night for the first time since the holidays (very busy social calendar throughout this month). Over dinner I shared with her my plan which was met with a smile that I haven't seen out of her in quite a while. She has a very open mind as to what my stylist will eventually do for me. She is so very pleased and of course that makes me happy.

    Then as we talked a bit further, it came up that the other day I accidentally left my "closet" door wide open (no, haven't built my new closet yet, have been working on other honey-do's around the house). She was pissed when she discovered it, saying that I was "trying to make the kids find out about me". Of course this is not the case, whether consciously or on a subconscious level. I explained to her that to have something like this discovered in that manner rarely has positive outcomes, that if the day comes when our kids know this of me, it has to be in a way controlled by her and I. Usually a comment like this is followed by "that'll NEVER happen" or worse but this time I managed to explain to her that if we are ever to go there, she needs to control this deep seated absolute shame that she harbors of this part of me, that this shame is something which tremendously hurts my feelings. She acknowledged this and essentially said she would try to work on it.

    Wow, the first productive conversation in forever. We could be onto something bigger and better when it comes to the continued integration of my Elephant in our daily lives. The thought of someday having my kids understand what I am all about is uplifting. Not that this is likely to happen tomorrow but the hope for someday is real. And it's times like these when I feel as if the balancing act I have a precarious hold upon might actually be sustainable. Time will tell.

    In the meantime, three months and counting until the hair goes bye bye. I plan on enjoying it, after which time I hope to embrace what will be a new signature style for me. I am optimistic about the entire prospect right now. May I be just as confident with this decision when the rubber hits the road in late April.
    Last edited by Sara Jessica; 01-26-2013 at 08:39 AM.
    Like a corpse deep in the earth I'm so alone, restless thoughts torment my soul, as fears they lay confirmed, but my life has always been this way - Virginia Astley, "Some Small Hope" (1986)
    Sunlight falls, my wings open wide. There's a beauty here I cannot deny - David Sylvian, "Orpheus" (1987)

  25. #125
    between worlds... steftoday's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    1,323
    Congrats on reaching a middle ground with your wife on your hair. I think your new haircut (based on the photos you referenced) is going to be awesome looking.
    I am in the process of letting my hair get longer again. Like you, as long as I have a full head of it, I might as well take advantage of it...
    When the answers escape us when we start to fade
    Remember who loved you and the ones who have stayed
    Cause my body will fail, but my soul will go on
    So don't you get lonely I'm right where you are

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


Check out these other hot web properties:
Catholic Personals | Jewish Personals | Millionaire Personals | Unsigned Artists | Crossdressing Relationship
BBW Personals | Latino Personals | Black Personals | Crossdresser Chat | Crossdressing QA
Biker Personals | CD Relationship | Crossdressing Dating | FTM Relationship | Dating | TG Relationship


The crossdressing community is one that needs to stick together and continue to be there for each other for whatever one needs.
We are always trying to improve the forum to better serve the crossdresser in all of us.

Browse Crossdressers By State