How many of us are JUST crossdressers?

[Sandra1746]

This has the potential to become a flame war, a very similar set of threads on the TS side did just that.

The terms CD and TG are loaded with so much baggage that may be instructive to check out the WIKIPEDIA entries for "Benjamin Scale" and "Transgender". Harry Benjamin never used the term TG, it was developed somewhat later. He was more interested in TS-people.

I think if you read the entry for TG you will notice that it focuses on "...presenting in a manner different from your genetic or 'birth assigned' sex...". The descriptions go on for quite a bit, TG paints with a very broad brush.

At the root of it all is the question of what you (personally) wish to call yourself. While a non-professional might disagree with your self-diagnosis, you can refer to yourself in any way you please. If being referred to as TG is offensive to you don't use the term yourself but it is going to be really hard to dissuade others from using it.

Just my $0.02,
Sandra1746

[Melanie Sykes]

Hi Freddy. I really love the people and discussions we have in this forum, and have always enjoyed your posts in particular. I agree with you wholeheartedly on this, and have been thinking the same things myself. I stopped short of starting a thread about it for two reasons: firstly, I'm a lazy poster and secondly, from some of the comments I've read here in the past I felt I must be in a bit of a minority, which did strike me as odd at a site with a title such as this one has.

Yes, I'm just a crossdresser. I don't think I'm transgender, but maybe I am. I don't really care what the label is. I'm a straight guy who loves wearing women's clothes, and I intend to progress to a wig, makeup and forms one day, but that'll be as far as I go. I want to be with a woman but I have no wish to become a woman. I do feel it's hardly possible to feel closer to a woman than by stepping into her very clothes, and whilst I feel I have somewhere an inner femininity which the dressing helps me embrace, I have no doubt that the larger part of my personality is male. I'm fine with this balance. I like to dress whenever I can and I often under dress when I can't, but I'm still happy to be just a man who appreciates femininity.

I've mentioned in previous posts that because my wife loves my facial hair and doesn't want me to shave it off, I tend to go out in public (far away from home) looking like a guy in women's clothes. This does seem to be heavily frowned upon in this forum, even though I dress perfectly sensibly and am well-groomed. I've never had any problems from the general public whilst being out and about dressed. I often read makeup tips and look at wigs and forms and am really excited to try it all one day. I can't wait to primp and preen in front of a mirror in a taffeta dress, but in the meantime I still feel the need to go out and be a plain old crossdresser in everyday womenswear: not because I want to shock or offend, but because it's simply a huge part of who I am. It's intrinsic to me, and just because I don't want to become a woman, it doesn't mean that I don't want or need support, or that I belong here any less.

I believe that in going out as a guy in non-outrageous women's clothes and being well-mannered, polite and well-behaved, I am doing our community some good; if we all went out en-femme looking gorgeous and "passing", no-one outside of sites like this would be any the wiser, and society would remain ignorant of our numbers, or maybe of even our existence. I think it does society good to see a man who's not afraid to wear something smart but unexpected - keeps society on its toes, so to speak. And the more it happens, the more people encounter a crossdresser who is obviously as sane as they are, the more accepting people will become.

I certainly don't want to alienate or distance myself from anyone here who identifies as transgender, transsexual, transistor radio or any other label. We are who we are. As someone once said, "No-one on earth could do a better job of being YOU". All of you who contribute to this site are unique and wonderful and I truly appreciate you and your contributions, and I know the rest of us do too. This post has been an opportunity for me to consider who I am and what I think about myself and about how I fit in with you all. And indeed about how you all fit in with me (which is, I'm pleased to say, very well).

Thank you ever so much Freddy for bringing this up. Yes, I'd love to be your friend. Hoorah for crossdressers!

[Wildaboutheels]

Obviously.

The very fact that the vast majority of CDers are males simply confirms the MAIN "reason" for all CDers. For almost every "label" here the VISUAL aspect is at least a big P A R T of the equation if not a huge part of it.

Men are simply BORN way more visually oriented than women because of tens of thousands of years of EVOLUTION. A man's most basic programming is to impregnate as many females as posssible, which gives him the best chance to pass on his DNA. [Doesn't mean all males are going to act on that drive.] We need to be able to "get ready" at a moments notice. Being extremely visually oriented is an elegantly simple solution. Hence all the porn and "skin" magazines for men as compared to women. Women simply do not provide a very large market because of their limited visual proclivities.

Women CAN'T be as visual men. [And most aren't.] If they could be as easily motivated for sex [per their vision] as men, there would be far greater risk of them becoming pregnant by a "wrong" guy which goes against THEIR most basic programming.

Looking at many of the threads here that always get the biggest reviews it becomes even clearer. Pantyhose, heels and undies are the biggest "items" discussed. All relatively simple, cheap and quick items to put on or take off. I am sure if stores were required to keep tack of all women's clothing sold to men, those 3 items would crush all others sales wise. Of course many women's items simply feel good, MIGHT fit better and might be practical for some things. [Pantyhose in the winter or for people that spend many hours on their feet on concrete]

Crossdressing [a very large "aspect" of it] is really not all that complicated IMO.

As far as what seems to be the majority here at these Forums? Sexual and/or gender identification clearly comes in dozens of flavors and variations. Makes perfect sense. Why should IT be any different than all the other aspects that make all of us truly unique.

[drushin703]

thanks for the post Frederique: I consider myself JUST a crossdresser. Not homosexual or transexual. Transgendered sounds too much like transexual so that is
not an umbrela I wish to get under. I fully understand it does cause fustigation when you choose sides , especially on this forum, and we have seen it happen so
many times before. Most here will agree (including you) that becoming a crossdresser = long arduous effort of severe disappointment. The end result, although
extremely gratifying, does not equal the the road traveled to get here.

OK, I dress as a woman. When I go out I dress as an erotic woman, tall heels, sheer pantyhose, the shortest skirts, makeup, perfume, the longest wigs.
I have futively tried to defend these acts and gestures on posts here long past and came across as only being too rigid. That was certainly not my intent.

My mother found seemen stains in her favorite girdle, told my dad and they both confronted me about it. What she didnt understand was that her favorite
girdle was also my favorite girdle. They told me how disappointed they were in me and asked me for some explanation. At age 13 was the first time I had
to explain to someone how I wasn't a homosexual but just enjoyed the feel of womens clothes. I wonder, is the answer to "are you just a crossdresser" again an exlanation of what someone is not.

[TGMarla]

Nice posting, Freddy.

Over the course of the years and years I have engaged in crossdressing, the majority of them included the inner war with myself over my gender identity. I reached the conclusion that I'm a crossdresser with some pronounced transexual tendencies. I say this because I know that had I been given the choice, I'd have opted to be female rather than male. Most of my life I've wished I could have lived my life as a woman. However, the transition/surgery route is one that I've never really wanted. And thankfully, that war is over. I struck a peace with myself and the life I have made.

I think it sucks that this community has this strange pecking order that causes some to look down on others as somehow inferior. It's nuts, if you ask me. Unlike our friend Wildaboutheels, who simply enjoys wearing feminine attire from time to time, when I crossdress I engage in female emulation, where I'm dressed head to toes in women's clothing, don prosthetics to enhance the image, wear a wig, and apply makeup to "complete" the look. In essence, I try to look like a natal female as much as I am able, and part of the reason is that there is a part of me that desperately wishes I was a woman to begin with. There is this unspoken opinion that floats about in our community that suggests that unless you follow through on such feelings, and go ahead with transition and SRS, that you are somehow a lesser being. If you'd like a taste of this condescending attitude, you can visit our Transexual forum from time to time. It's not always like that, but it's definitely there. Unless you engage in this final act of desperation, you aren't worthy of opinions that matter in the least to the community at large.

I'm calling hogwash on that one.

I'm relieved that my inner war is over, that I've called a truce with myself that doesn't include transition.

I'm grateful to be "just a crossdresser".



Of the entire CD/TG community, only a very small percentage

[Ms Mira]

1) The more I learn about myself, the more it seems like the lines between being CD / TG / TV / TS become blurrier. Though I could say the same about any label. The lesson to me is that people are so multi-dimensional that labels never really suffice in describing them. *shrug* People get too caught up in labels.

2) It's funny: you would think that whatever kind of trans-person you are, that your experiences would make you very welcoming and open-minded of others. Instead, and this seems to be a common behavior amongst ALL people, it seems like even trans-people would often rather focus on being owners of their own little spaces, and being like "MINE. If you want to play here, you have to play by my rules!" It's a cycle: the world at large hasn't made it's own space welcoming to them so they claim their own space and do the same thing. I guess it's hard to be surprised: ownership is one of the pillars of our society. But, it is disappointing.

[Rondawants]

I too just crossdress. It has lead me to a much closer relationship with my SO! We are man and wife and two girls who are best friends! It's a very nice place to be! Loves Ronda!

[Kate Simmons]

Well Freddy, I'm JUST a person who happens to like to crossdress sometimes. The clothing is optional really. I like others for who they are as people and accept them as being who they say they are. There are no hierarchies in my world Hon, JUST people who are my friends.

[kimdl93]

Isn't it nice when a post generates so much interest!

Really, the conflict over lables isnt so much a disagreement over who is in or who is out based on some objective criteria, but rather conflicting self-definitions. Its a habit to use terms like CD, TG, and TS as though they have some concrete meaning that is agreed upon by all. They don't. An apple to me, may be a pomme to someone else. We may be referring to the same object or experience but the words that enable communication inevitably also carry different meanings to others.

So when I think of or use the term Cross dressing, I mean a behavior. Specifically, putting on women's garments because they are women's garments. When I used the term Transgender,I'm referring to a broad spectrum of behaviors and also a spectrum of self perceptions about ones gender. In my set of definitions, CDing falls under that TG umbrella if it reflects something of the individual's perceptions of his/her gender identity.

My chosen definitions may fit well with some other people. When they do, we speak a common language and can easily communicate about our lives, interests or problems. When the definitions are different, misunderstandings and sometimes conflicts can and often do occur. It's particularly difficult when individuals tend towards absolutes in their thinking. CDing (or TGor TS)for some, must mean exactly one thing, with no allowance for others definitions.

But the key thing For me is that I am willing to acknowledge that my definitions may not be shared by others. So I'm perfectly willing to accept the notion that CDing can be a behavior outside the TG tent...related only by the garments for which we share a common attraction. Certainly, there's no judgement, no hierarchy or rank that places CD, TS or TG above one or the other.

I'm perfectly happy accept Freddy's definition of CDing. It allows for a big tent and the opportunity to meet and share with a fascinating assortment of people.

[Georgia_Maine]

Human beings have a seeming need to put everything in a special box. Am I CD or TG? I honestly don't know and I really don't care! I could easily spend the rest of my life in male mode and I could just as easily spend the rest of my life in female mode. It really doesn't matter because either way I'm still me. If I were forced to choose one or the other, then I'd certainly miss the mode I didn't choose. I enjoy both of my personas.

Gigi

[Frédérique]

Crossdresser falls under the transgender umbrella.

[SIZE="2"]Here’s a novel concept – transgender falls under the CROSSDRESSER umbrella, at least in regards to this site, where all variations of crossdressing are present and accounted for, from the guy who wears panties now and then to the post-SRS transsexual. There are many shades of grey in between, naturally, and no variation should be excluded due to intent…[/SIZE]

The funny thing is that I have since learned that I am transgendered. Not only do I consider myself transgendered, but I take it a step further - I consider myself to be transsexual. I do believe there are differences between the TG, the TS within the TG, and the CDs. I also believe that these are issues that and differences that should be easily rectified among the groups between educated minds. There is too much at stake not to view it otherwise.

[SIZE="2"]I call myself transgendered on occasion, if only to put my peers at ease, but darned if I don’t keep going back to my birth gender by way of outward appearance. Think of it as dressing up to go on a journey – for the crossdresser, it’s a round trip ticket, and for the TG, it’s supposed to be a one-way ticket. I think it’s a bit unfair to expect every male who dresses as a female to go ONE WAY and nothing else, as if the motto should be “Woman or bust!” Pardon my pun. Some of us are not equipped to tackle such a dramatic change of scenery, preferring to use emulation and a willful suspension of disbelief as a tactile tranquilizer. I must go back, for I am a male – it’s a pity, but that’s how it is…
[/SIZE]

I see CD's as transgendered (umbrella) as distant cousins where we share the same blood but yet are very different and this can be measured in pain. Most who crossdress do not suffer torments imposed internally but externally by others where with GID it is the pain of the internal made external so the pain comes from the opposite direction and so is different but with similarities.

[SIZE="2"]I was going to say that transgendered individuals may have no “say” in their crossdressing – they MUST crossdress, since they become the other gender. I sometimes get the feeling that the TG, who is still technically a crossdresser, may not share the same euphoria about dressing that the newbie might feel. Deflation is a terrible thing, especially when support and understanding are needed in this increasingly intolerant world. Tell me, if a person is transgendered, are they crossdressing, or are they merely wearing the clothes their newly transformed gender WOULD wear, under the inevitable circumstances? I think this has been discussed already, but it may explain why a relatively new crossdresser would draw this response from a TG: “What are you going to DO with it?” Do you have to do anything with it? Let’s just dress and be happy…[/SIZE]

I personally have never met a transsexual who did not start out crossdressing and I have met a number who at first identified as someone who crossdressed without any of the gender identity problems but the crossdressing in time pealed back deeper truths that had been buried usually from social conditioning intersecting with the survival instincts and desire for love.

[SIZE="2"]And there are many homosexual males who start out crossdressing in an attempt to express themselves – if there is this purported “person inside,” the easiest way to free him/her is by wearing your inside out. But, gay connotations aside, I must say that MtF crossdressing has altered my personality in profound ways, indeed it is part and parcel of my psychological makeup (pun intended). In my case, something had to be expressed, but I have no desire to stay on the other side of the fence, or the yawning gender chasm, just because some may feel that all crossdressers are transgendered, and it (CD’ing) must go in ONE direction only…[/SIZE]

This has the potential to become a flame war, a very similar set of threads on the TS side did just that.

[SIZE="2"]It’s too hot for a flame war, and, in any event, that was not my intention. It’s nice to be thought of (or seen) as transgendered, but I’m just a typical MtF crossdresser who ferries back and forth across the River Queer. Where's my paddle? I merely wish to support those who crossdress for pleasure, no questions asked, and no gender proclivities attached. Judging by the large number of MtF participants (and lurkers) here, I would say that many of us are one thing and not the other, same as it always was, before this TG terminology came along to neatly (and unfairly) gather us under one roof…

I have many TG friends around here, and all of them openly support ALL crossdressers – this is how it should be, and it’s a beautiful thing to behold! Others are not quite so forthcoming. Crossdressing may mean something, or it may not, and it may be leading somewhere, or it may not, but I think there is room for us all under this imaginary “umbrella” everyone keeps talking about…
[/SIZE]

[StacyPump]

Thank you for your thoughtful, and thought-provoking post, Frederique. I, too, am a crossdresser. I do not desire to transition, or present myself as female all of the time. I simply like to dress up as a woman, suspend my disbelief for a while, and enjoy myself.

I am really glad that you raised the point about sometimes feeling looked down upon, within this forum, for being "just a crossdresser". There have been a few times when I have read a particularly harsh post, and wanted to reply with something like, "Wow! I have been struggling with feelings of guilt and shame my entire life because I like to crossdress. I never imagined that I would feel MORE shame over crossedressing after reading posts on a website called 'CROSSDRESSERS.COM'! Can't we all just get along?"

I decided not to post that, because I didn't want to start a flame war. And I hope this thread does not degenerate into one.

I am also glad to see the kind reponses of so many thoughtful others on this subject. It confirms the answer for the question: Yes, we can!

Anyway, I just wanted you to know that you are not alone, and that I have felt the same way.

Kind regards,
StacyP

[suchacutie]

Hi Frederique! I love your posts! I also love the last paragraph of your last post:

I have many TG friends around here, and all of them openly support ALL crossdressers – this is how it should be, and it’s a beautiful thing to behold! Others are not quite so forthcoming. Crossdressing may mean something, or it may not, and it may be leading somewhere, or it may not, but I think there is room for us all under this imaginary “umbrella” everyone keeps talking about…

There are agressive individuals in all areas of life. My wife and I belong to a very large forum of knitters and crochetters, and on that forum the crochetters (me among them) are looked upon as second-class citizens in many ways, bizarre as that may sound! But, I still find the site useful and interesting and enjoy the crochet forums and don't worry about the rest.

The same is true here, I think. Some get hung up on the labels and the "pink fog" excitement of wanting everyone "out there" in some public way. Some are sure that everyone would be living 24/7 if they only had the backbone to do so.

The reality is that we aren't all cookie-cutter models of each other. In fact, if there was a group that displays a tremendously wide spectrum of possibilities it's us!!! So, when someone tells you that you are somehow JUST something, please find it humerous and get a good laugh from it. You are a human being, and what you do and how you do it is important to you, and is JUST RIGHT for you!

All my best,
tina

[Sallee]

I have to agree I am "just a crossdresser". Have no desire to get srs or be full time. Just looking to have fun in the gender world.
Wish I knew why it was fun but it is Then again I don't know why a lot of things are fun but they are so I accept them

[Chickhe]

To me crossdressing is an activity anyone can do (like speaking, brushing your teeth, cutting wood)... its more inclusive. Being transgendered is more like you associate with a group...like, I'm a politician, or I'm a dentist, or I'm a carpenter. You have to convince yourself and live by it. Either is okay, but its easier to belong to a photo club when anyone can join, even if you are not a photographer.

[cindybabe]

Just another crossdressers here with know desire to go fulltime

[kelliT]

Love you, Frédérique
Started to write, but way too much and not enough time.
Thank You
Thank You

I carry around 10 things you don't know about CDs
on my phone if that tells you anything. My personal mantra.
thank you

[VanessaJCD]

Wonderful post Frederique! I'm just a person who likes to dress once in a while and enjoy the makeup, hair and clothes. But I haven't been subject to some of the nastiness you have. I've seen some of these posts (because you are appointment reading for me..) and can't understand the the motivation behind some of these posts..

Keep writing - some of us truly enjoy your prose!! You are where you belong...

[Marleena]

We need to support each other no matter what label is placed on us.

In the end we all go to the same big gig in the sky.

[RADER]

I like to wear women's clothes, but I have no desire to be a woman, nor to have a sexual relationship with any men. So I guess I'm plain old vanilla too.

I can say "DITTO" Now what do want to call me, Call me anything you want to.
Rader

[Polly R]

Hi Fredierique,

Yep, yet another plain old vanilla. Like most who've replied so far, I too am just a CDer who has no interest in transitioning. I too am married with a supportive wife and definitely have no sexual interest in men. I have a manly side that loves to do manly things - I work in and enjoy heavy engineering - playing with steam locos and old steam boats is a hobby but I just have this feminine side that loves to get dressed up periodically and look and feel as pretty as I can at my age.

I agree that sometimes the TS's try to knock us down - the two TG groups I've visited in the UK seem to end up being taken over by the TS's who then give us a hard time insisting that we're just playing at it. The usual thing they say to us is, 'give it time, the only difference between a CD and a TS is time...' I DON'T agree!! A lot of us are just CDers, plain and simple..!

xx Polly

[Foxglove]

Sad to say, Freddy, I think establishing hierarchies is inevitable, given the way people are made. Especially in our case: when you're absolutely at the bottom of the social heap, there's bound to be a mad scramble to see who's going to be at the top of the bottom.

Best wishes, Annabelle

[Gillian Gigs]

Bravo, Freddy, I agree there is nothing wrong with being a crossdresser with no desires to go into SRS. I too am a happily married "man" who happens to have a taste for wearing womens clothes. Like I saw on another post some like to wear cowboy boots and hats, well I like to wear lingerie and skirts. Maybe some people see something that I don't see, but my body parts are my own and I will keep them and wrap them in the clothing of my choice.

[EllieOPKS]

Great thread! Frederique, you are a mind reader. I have often had the same thoughts as to why is it called Crossdressers.com yet caters to the transgendered community as well. - DO NOT FIRE SALVO'S EXPLAINING WHY! Don't have anything against either and I really don't care. I belong to a fishing forum as well and there is no discussions about hunting on that forum. I am solely a cross dresser.

[Veronica27]

In the past I have been attacked by some, and defended by others for expressing my viewpoints on the origin, meaning and relevance of the term transgender. I stayed away from this forum for several years because of the viciousness of some of the attacks. Since returning, I have detected a tendency for the current posters to be far more accepting of diverse opinions on this subject.

I consider myself to be a crossdresser, because it describes what I enjoy doing, and is unambiguous. I am a man who sometimes wears women's clothing. I do not consider myself to be transgendered because I have no confusion about which sex I am, and feel no desire to actually be a woman, despite the enjoyment I derive from portraying one on occasion. My non-use of the term trangender to describe myself also involves what I perceive to be some grammatical inaccuracies in the term. As you pointed out, "trans" refers to a one way trip, such as when used in the word transport. We transport goods from point a to point b. Cross refers more to a two way trip, or both directions, or back and forth as used in the term crosswalk. Gender, is primarily a grammatical term which means the "class" or type of a word. Its most common use is in the linking of words as being appropriate to one or the other of the sexes. In recent decades, a degree of linguistic laziness has led to the substituting of the word gender for the more accurate word sex in many contexts.

Regardless of the meaning and origin of the term gender, it is somewhat nebulous, being whatever a particular individual, group or society deems it to be at any point in time. What is considered masculine or feminine is largely at the whim of society, influenced by some natural forces. As individuals, we all possess qualities that could be considered to be at either end of the gender spectrum, and when I crossdress, I am probably tapping into some of those qualities that might be viewed as feminine. However, I am just being me, and not suppressing a part of me to satisfy the demands of society.

All of this is my opinion, and others are entitled to their own viewpoint as to whether or not they are transgendered. What I don't agree with is the insistence by some that because I crossdress I fall under an umbrella of TG. As Freddie says, why not an umbrella of CD? CD describes what I do, while TG attempts to describe what I am, but that is a very inexact term to use in such a manner to label me for life.

Veronica