community

[Inna]

To say that I am disappointed wouldn't be right. It is an intrinsic part of my evolution as a human being to be open and accepting of all regardless of standards and preferences. Yet I can't help but feel overpowering notion that for majority of the community I am part of, absolute womanhood is a non existent virtue.

When I decided to transition, my entire being was bet against all odds, to get to the essence of the feeling I always carried within my heart and was so deprived of embracing. I wanted to be a woman, not mere representation, not half way between, nor adorned with cloth of opposite gender yet remaining fixed in my old ways, NO. I wanted to finally have her take the rightful center stage in the life until then, lived in deceit.

And I was sure such was the case for all the transfolks who were M2F, but now I see clearly that this is not the case.

I do try to connect, and somehow am drawn into sisterhood of transness but lately, have a hard time feeling at ease within testosterone driven trans environment. Most of the folks I have a pleasure to be with as I am finding out are still running with Testosterone levels of a teen quarterback, LOL, and their half way female impersonation diluted by the masculine nature of T makes for an undesirable social combo! Well, at least it feels like that to me!

I have a hard time connecting, and the sexually charged gazes coming from skirt wearing gals are somewhat a huge conversation turnoff.

I do not want this to sound regretful, but maybe it is, as I suppose, my naive nature and miss understanding of the community gave me wrong impression.

I so want to be an advocate for societal equality and acceptance, but as well, do understand that for such to truly take root , we need to present and represent civilized and poised.

Presently there are maybe 3 persons within entire group of maybe 40 folks who do seek womanhood the rest seems to play with the notion of femaleness yet have the sexuality so intertwined into the equation that clarity of resolve is non present!

[Badtranny]

oh boy, you're gonna set it off with this one honey.

I'll save my comments for when it gets juicy. ;-)

[larry]

So what r u saying? Do it all the way-MY way -or hit the highway ? What happened to this " It is an intrinsic part of my evolution as a human being to be open and accepting of all regardless of standards and preferences. " ???

[morgan51]

I'm with Mel. It will be a fun thread to watch! Hugs anyway Inna I respect your moxy. Morgan

[TerryTerri]

I find that being 'trans' has little to do with whether I spend time with someone. Unless there are other bonds of interests, ideology, etc, being trans is not much of a factor. Just my life, Actually, I don't have much of a life these days, between my work & my boys I average about 1 evening a week for social fun, sometimes, and that is usually with my Friday night karaoke crowd I have known for years. I'm the only 'trans' person in our group.

btw, most of my friends that I talk with, text with, shop with, etc are GG. I kinda have 2 male friends, but we've never spent much time togther doing 'social' stuff.

[Inna]

So what r u saying? Do it all the way-MY way -or hit the highway ? What happened to this " It is an intrinsic part of my evolution as a human being to be open and accepting of all regardless of standards and preferences. " ???

LOL, I am laughing Larry, I know, it sort of is an oxymoron to say least, but hence my confusion or rather disappointment not being able to get closer to relationships which could build a forge of transgender movement to change the notion in main stream society viewing all of us as deviant and freakish.

I am sure that advancements in regard to our cause are not set by ******* industry but advocates who take positions amongst society like White house administration, Governmental institutions, film makers, respectful artists and slew of accredited individuals.

[Andie Elisabeth]

LOL, I am laughing Larry, I know, it sort of is an oxymoron to say least, but hence my confusion or rather disappointment not being able to get closer to relationships which could build a forge of transgender movement to change the notion in main stream society viewing all of us as deviant and freakish.

I am sure that advancements in regard to our cause are not set by ******* industry but advocates who take positions amongst society like White house administration, Governmental institutions, film makers, respectful artists and slew of accredited individuals.

IMHO there is a problem with society which is more interested in what you have done to yourself than who you are and what you do. In the news you hear bad news, positive not so much.

As my teacher said: "One swallow doesn't announce spring." But every single swallow will show others that they can be successful too and still be public. If all transgendered people hide in closet we will be seen as freaks.

As I am concerned I don't think I'll able to stay in my closet for much longer.

And there is also fear of unknown. TG/TS is not really explained by science so people fear it, proving hormal effects on developing brain with experiments would be unethical.

[Persephone]

I am sure that advancements in regard to our cause are not set by ******* industry but advocates who take positions amongst society like White house administration, Governmental institutions, film makers, respectful artists and slew of accredited individuals.

Spot on! Absolutely!

Edwin Bok once said "Make the world a bit better for having been in it."

I love that he said "a bit better." Even those of us who occupy the smaller roles have a day-to-day opportunity to make the world a bit better.

There are plenty of ways to help advance the rights and dignity of transsexuals without being a part of some "cause." As a matter of fact, I'm convinced that many such notions retard everyone's development rather than advance it. Many exist to employ folks in transgender organizations, enterprises, and law firms, and some exist to keep transfolk loyal to a particular political party. Those are roles for sheep.

There is a big wide wonderful world out there! If you have the wings, fly!

Hugs,
Persephone.

[KellyJameson]

Inna

I to have struggled living in a world that is so highly sexualized and for me the absence of male sexual energies and sense of myself as not being male are somehow related just as two paths running parallel are separate but share the same ground.

I also have found it difficult to feel a connection with others and look at my fellow human beings as being mysterious and unknowable but this is due to my being born as a statistical aberration so even "if" I belong to the tribe of those who call themselves TG that are a minority within the tribe that is not TG (the majority), I am still even within this group a minority so I live as a minority within a minority and I suspect so do you.

Sexual appetite is independant from biology and I have known many women whose sexual appetites are equal to or greater than any man I have ever known so sex is an individual experience and expression that does not necessarily follow whether you are a man or woman, the difference being that men are traditionally more vocal
about sex but not necessarily more sexual.

Sex ( as many experiences) can turn toward escapism and become a destructive addiction when there is an emptiness inside the person they are trying to fill up often in their search for love so the problem than is not sex but love and what love is believed to be and how it is experienced (found)

The desire to be adored, worshipped, idolized are all experiences dependant on an audience so just as a child performs for the attention of their parent(s) because within this attention is the sense of security by being valued it is easy to fall victim as adults to continue with this child like behavior to feel loved (safe)

Everyone carries within them the awareness of their own impending death (mortality) and we are continously reacting to this awareness. When a person becomes comfortable with self delusion they will turn toward beliefs that are not true (illusion/magical thinking) and one of the most destructive beliefs is that power makes you immortal and through power you transcend death. (Think of Charlie Sheen as an example )

Many substitute love for power just as a child seeks to escape the awareness of their own vulnerability (mortality) in the love (security) of a parent, they use the same stategies from childhood to solve the need to confront fear (mortality) through power in relation to others.

Sex is a form of power when you create desire in another because it gives you a measure of power over them but this is an illusion that opens up the person to exploitation. Those who suffer from a "love deficit" from childhood are most likely to be the ones who will use sex as power to get love trading gold for feces

This love deficit comes from being a victim of violence in childhood and there are many expressions of violence. I type these words in a coffee shop and next to me are two parents who have only shown criticism of their two young daughters and I wonder how these love starved children will live as adults, will they cut their flesh at the sound of their parents voices? use drugs to escape the noise in their brain that was placed there by there parents coldness, cruelty, indifference and judgement ?

What you are witnessing among those who are TG is not unique to being TG but happens everywhere that children have been violated.

The blending of sex, power in place of love or "payment for love" from shattered self esteem is the problem and anyone can fall victim to it particularly those who are TG because it is rare for them not to have experienced relentless criticism,rejection, violence, rape, abandonment,hate, ect....

It is not the testosterone but the childhood in my opinion, they are trying to escape their feelings of worthlessness that was placed into them by others.

To heal from this it takes others who have already healed who may be able to quide them out of this darkness so when needed protect yourself from them but give thanks if you are not one of them because it is only by accident of birth if you escaped this terrible injury to self.

A man is just as capable of turning themselves into a sexual object to be used to gain the illusion of love as a womam is. Sex is extremely dangerous to the self when it is used to heal from past wounds.

[Inna]

powerful words Kelly, and perhaps true. I have experienced sexuality under influence of T and let me tell you, it is a powerful concoction, demanding aggressive and animalistic drive. Then I also experienced absence of T and organism now beating to the different drum of E and sensuality being the forthcoming essence of being, I suddenly felt whole and all that didn't make sense until that moment, now was clear and just! So my own experience living both environments proved how different these are from each other.

Now, I also have experience of being blessed with community of Genetic Females, wonderful gals whom I spend time together on Girls nights out, how world apart is this experience I can not convey the immense void separating both. There with the natal women I feel closeness and yet not an ounce of sexuality within the relations between them!!! the are just girlfriends like boys are friends when socializing, so different from the TG community I am part of, and experience of such immense sexuality directly towards and amongst friends only reminds me of a drift setting this community apart from standard friendships I am used to.

[pamela_a]

I just have 1 simple question for you. Are you a woman (albeit with a birth defect you're working to get corrected) or a male who likes dressing up like a female (for whatever reason)? If you're a woman then you have little in common with the males so to feel unconnected with them is normal.

Just a word of warning....don't get caught up in being "trans". I've seen too many who get suck in that phase of their life and never get past it to become "just another woman".

[ReineD]

To say that I am disappointed wouldn't be right. It is an intrinsic part of my evolution as a human being to be open and accepting of all regardless of standards and preferences. Yet I can't help but feel overpowering notion that for majority of the community I am part of, absolute womanhood is a non existent virtue.

Don't be so quick to judge others Inna. Precious little can be gleaned from a few words written in any post, given the complexity of human nature, the strength of emotion that is attached to this difficult journey combined with past socialization and the difficulties involved in sorting through all of this.

If I were to read some of your posts or thoughts from years ago, I'm sure that you would sound like a different person than now. Does this mean that you were less a woman then, or less deserving of support from those who had gone before you?

Also, as much as you or anyone else might prefer this section of the forum to be an exclusive club only for those who have completed their journeys and have "arrived", this is not the spirit of a support forum.

[Debglam]

oh boy, you're gonna set it off with this one honey.

I'll save my comments for when it gets juicy. ;-)

Inna,

Melissa is kinda right but I don’t think your post is all that bad. I’ll stick my head in the hornet’s nest though.

What I have learned in my relatively short time in the trans world is that you HAVE to take everyone on an individual basis. I think you are kind of stereotyping though. There are post-op TS that are more masculine than John Wayne and there are CD that are more feminine or “womanly” than some of the GG’s I know. I am talking about spirit and NOT appearance mind you. Who knows why?

Also, the trans community is like any other community and you are going to feel a kindred spirit with some people and not others. That’s life. Maybe just the crowd you are hanging out with?

I get what you are saying and the trans women who dress in a highly sexualized way seem to be coming from a different place than I am but that doesn’t mean that I can’t be friends with them. But if there is someone I don't get along with, or don't "mesh" with I just move on. If you don't like the folks you are hanging out with, find new friends.

Debby

[Inna]

Don't be so quick to judge others Inna. Precious little can be gleaned from a few words written in any post, given the complexity of human nature, the strength of emotion that is attached to this difficult journey combined with past socialization and the difficulties involved in sorting through all of this.

If I were to read some of your posts or thoughts from years ago, I'm sure that you would sound like a different person than now. Does this mean that you were less a woman then, or less deserving of support from those who had gone before you?

Also, as much as you or anyone else might prefer this section of the forum to be an exclusive club only for those who have completed their journeys and have "arrived", this is not the spirit of a support forum.

Geeee Reine, I am seriously surprised with your interpretation of my post. I haven't set out to banish nor deprive any one of their right spot anywhere. For most part it is a recollection of my own feelings and view ever so clearer of the world around me. I am not placing my self on the pedestal, how can I, I am as broke as anybody else, but I am trying my hardest to make it right!

As to the community. well, society sees what it sees, stereotypes galore and for it to understand out of the common mainstream, seems to be an insurmountable task.
My own view though is that if we as a community do go off the limb too far we may brake the uneasy and thin support we so far as had.

[ReineD]

I went by the "for majority of the community I am part of, absolute womanhood is a non existent virtue".

I'm not TS, but if I were and felt as if my gender identity was not considered womanly enough for some of the members here, I'd feel hurt by this judgment.

Maybe I did misinterpret your post and if so I apologize, but judging by other comments that precede mine I gather others did too. So it may be a good thing for you to expand a bit on what you meant exactly by that statement, in order to clear up any misunderstandings.

[larry]

You are all so well written it seems like I am reading the encylopedia in here sometimes. The interesting part is that we all seem to deep down feel similar and support each other.."You Go Girls" !!

[ReineD]

Larry, didn't anyone ever tell you? High IQ and transness are closely related!

[Debglam]

Larry, didn't anyone ever tell you? High IQ and transness are closely related!

More true than you think. Sadly, there are a lot of very bright, very capable folks out there that are undervalued and underemployed because of being trans.

[ReineD]

Oh, I believe it. And I agree it's very sad.

[Badtranny]

Wow, this post hasn't stirred up any of the angst I expected. Let's see if I can help. ;-)

Maybe Inna didn't make herself clear. She's complaining that she keeps encountering CDs that are essentially just dudes in dresses and as she becomes closer to her goal, they become more sexually aggressive in conversation and whatnot. Basically, she's upset because she's always running into CD's that want to bang a pretty T-girl and it continues to befuddle her.

Did I get it right Inna?

[ReineD]

Wow, this post hasn't stirred up any of the angst I expected. Let's see if I can help. ;-)

Don't you start!

Maybe Inna didn't make herself clear. She's complaining that she keeps encountering CDs that are essentially just dudes in dresses and as she becomes closer to her goal, they become more sexually aggressive in conversation and whatnot. Basically, she's upset because she's always running into CD's that want to bang a pretty T-girl and it continues to befuddle her.

That's what I thought Inna meant, but she assured us otherwise.

Not to talk behind your back, Inna, but did you mean that you encounter this outside the forum? I took it that you meant you encounter this behavior here, and I was pointing out that it's impossible to really know someone's core just through a few words typed in a support forum. I agree, it's much easier to determine this if you're face-to-face with someone in a room who is making a pass at you. And if it means anything, I have a pre-op friend who is equally disturbed by this. I don't blame you for being upset.

[ameliabee]

Inna,

Perchance you are needlessly discarding the trans sisterhood in an overwhelming urge to 'just be female'?

I agree with you that there's a huge difference between those who are still jacked up on testosterone and those who are on HRT. But... I haven't really had your experience with running into people who aren't serious. Perchance it's because I only really know other young transitioners. Among this group though, the connection is amazing. I've met several other trans women where we just 'clicked' instantly.

And, yes, it has occasionally been sexual. This is what happens when you have lesbians around who are inclined to such and chemistry off the charts.

Maybe try finding an environment that doesn't reek of testosterone? It can be done.

Also, try not to superimpose your idea of 'the right way to be trans' upon others. Your opinions have a considerable amount of internalized transphobia.

Best,

Amelia

[Inna]

To answer in all clarity, Yes Melissa right on!

Reine, No, all that experience had happened in the circle of friendships which are immediate and face to face.

Amelia, Yes and No, there is a significant phobia towards a sexual advances which are wrapped up in the cloak of friendly, supposedly, woman to woman friendship! This phobia or as I would put it "To Draw The Line" is rather against the deceitful nature of aggressor rather then against trans nature of anyone.
Many of you know me a while, many for quite long and I hope that I come through as a truthful and not discriminating in any ways, however, if there are issues and subjects that are a border line between tolerance and deceit, I shall speak loudly and wont tolerate those who conceal their behavior and lie straight to my face.

After all, if neither I nor anyone else can voice an opposition to certain behavior, weather misunderstood or otherwise misconceived, all we are doing here is pat each other on the shoulder hoping it will go away by it self.

[ReineD]

After all, if neither I nor anyone else can voice an opposition to certain behavior, weather misunderstood or otherwise misconceived, all we are doing here is pat each other on the shoulder hoping it will go away by it self.

I never meant to imply you cannot discuss your troubles here. I thought you were putting down some of the forum members and I'm glad that we got that straightened out.

[Badtranny]

Your opinions have a considerable amount of internalized transphobia.

no, no, no, and no.

I guess I could just say hell no.