Locked in the closet.

[ReineD]

Wise words from a wise women

“Might still be seen as "criticism", as if the going-out CDer is making a comparison when she isn't at all”

Guilty as charged.

Suzy, if someone ever slams you for your choices, you have every right to tell them to mind their own business. And maybe some members here do post with the intention of making a subtle comparison, in a passive-agressive manner. But I know that many others are simply relating their own experiences with no judgment on anyone else.

So I think in forums where we only have the typed word to rely on and not tone of voice and the all-important non-verbal language, the onus is on each member to choose to see the positive rather than the negative in the text, unless of course there is outright criticism.

I was told something years ago (at a period of time when I was unhappy and critical of others): "If you spot it, you got it", meaning that it is not uncommon for people to project their own feelings or insecurities onto other people's motives. But if they do this repeatedly in a negative manner as I did, they need to learn to look at internal root causes rather than focus on other people's behaviors or motives, unless of couse the other person is being flagrantly malicious.

OK. I'll get off my soapbox now.

[NicoleScott]

To the TS members, this is a non issue, you dress as a female because you feel that this is what you are.

Right, Nikki. I'm not a TS, but this is what they say, and I believe them. The thread is about a CDer going out, which is a different POV than a TS going out.

[Radina]

Yea I don't see myself 'going out' for a LONG time as long as I still live with my family or as long as they are near by me. I don't want to disappoint them that I've not turned out to be the ideal male rather just a little CD fetish. I will probably remain 'in closet' but I'm OK with this. I'm only in 20's.. still young I guess.

[Carmen]

I disagree with your theme/premise. Change "ALL" to "most" or "the majority" and then I would agree with you...When and if they are ever ready, they will find that with the right attitude, it is an awful lot of fun being out there.

Well said Allie.
I started dressing in my mid-20's and the word "closeted" was not in my vocabulary. Early on in my CD 'career' I just assumed that I was supposed to dress my best and then go out. And I became used to society's reactions both positive and not. For me the closet is where I keep my femme attire in between outings.
When I have put all that time money and effort into dressing and looking my best, to me it is a waste to do so and then remain indoors.

[Wildaboutheels]

Just ONE of the reasons for starting this thread.

True or False??? VVV

It would be very easy for any GG to come to this site and easily get the impression that if a fella she is dating has mentioned anything CD related, she will eventually have to deal with HIM wanting to do it publicly with or W/O her.

In my mind [and the now closed thread just adds fuel to the fire] there is a huge difference between keeping it stricly at home and displaying one's "girly side" to the world and having to deal with all the repercussions of a non accepting Society even though her thread was labeled with the B word and that was the apparent "angle" of it.

CDing IS at least a partly visual thing for ALL CDers of every stripe and most likely the ONLY factor for the vast majority of CDers {MEN} who probably only dress for 5 or 10 minutes at a time before deciding "maybe that's enough dressing for today". The numbers clearly support the ones in the closet are the majority theme as Reine pointed out.

Of course, the vast majority of people who POST here DO go out dressed, making it appear that most all CDers either want to get out of the closet or will want to eventually if they have not already.

Just because someone plays a musical instrument does not mean that they WILL someday want to play in a group or a marching band in public. Does not mean they don't play a mean guitar, piano or whatever and being able to pass has nothing to do with it for most people perfectly happy staying in their closet.

There is no right or wrong here. Every one of us has reasons for what we like or don't like and for what we will or won't do.

What's good here, is that this site offers support and encouragement for the folks in the closet WANTING to get out.

[sandra-leigh]

Step on a board that has wheels on it. Fall immediately. Repeat a dozen times, the average time between falls decreasing even as you roll on a variety of surfaces. Flush with excitement, get off, and go over to your friends' house -- and don't say a thing to them because you don't want to risk the possibility of giving them the impression that you feel that you are "better" then they are.

Likely? I don't think so. You're probably going to say the equivalent of "Oh man, what I just did was sooo awesome! You gotta try it!"

I reluctantly got on a Plank With Things Attached That Turn Underneath It, once. I promptly fell backwards and hit the back of my head hard on asphalt. Everyone around laughed at me. I worried about brain damage.

My friends kept riding their Planks With Things Attached, not caring if I might feel inferior. Which I didn't. Just lonely sometimes, when it got to feel that it had been too long since we'd done something I could participate in.

[Engendered]

This may start to veer slightly off topic, but there seems to be some concern here about how GGs/SOs...new people to the site, might perceive CDs as a whole (and thus their partner) in a certain way, based on the prevalent views and positions of a vocal minority. Since it's more likely someone will post about "I finally went out today", than "I stayed indoors again today", a slanted view of reality might come across. I'm not sure there's any way to redress the balance, as it's quite natural for this to happen in any random population of people.

You also mentioned that the MtF section is one of the ones open to the public. I think it's important to be mindful of this at times. I'm sure there are quite a significant portion of non-registered people reading this very topic. This isn't really that significant a stat, but right at this moment 142 out of 161 people reading the MtF section, are not signed in. I doubt the real number of non-members is 88%, so I assume most members don't sign in when reading (although I'm logged in 100% of the time I'm here).

[Elizabeth]

Hi Wildaboutshoes,

As to the true or false question, it's my experience that more likely than not, a SO is going to have to deal with the issue of her partner going out in public in one way or another. As to preference, I think one has to look at the reasons for being in the closet. For some the reasons are serious motivators to stay closeted. There are some people who would lose their job, or be ostracized in their community. The consequences can be harsh. Families disown crossdressers, relationships are damaged or broken.

For me there was a time when coming out of the closet would have been impossible. It would have cost me my marriage, my business, my kids, and my relationships with immediate family members, such as mom, dad, brothers and sisters. But circumstances can and do change. When that happens the reasons for remaining in the closet can evaporate. I make no judgements about any sisters who remain in the closet. They know what is best for them.

My last point here is that for me it turned out I could have come out anytime. I just didn't know it.

Love always,
Elizabeth

[IngeInCO]

My closet is Awesome! Um our closet

[ReineD]

It would be very easy for any GG to come to this site and easily get the impression that if a fella she is dating has mentioned anything CD related, she will eventually have to deal with HIM wanting to do it publicly with or W/O her.

...

Of course, the vast majority of people who POST here DO go out dressed, making it appear that most all CDers either want to get out of the closet or will want to eventually if they have not already.

Question: Do you foresee having a SO who might want to join this forum one day, and do you anticipate issues when she reads posts that do not mirror your situation?

If this is the case you will simply need to explain to her how vast is this community, and where you fit into it. You can also explain that many members who do want to go out use this forum to learn all about the "how-tos" and this is why there are so many going out threads. There are also many other members who are in the process of figuring out what all of this means to them, which accounts for a large chunk of the posts. Also, don't forget the members for whom this forum is one of their only outlets for expression.

If someone only dresses for 5-10 minutes at a time, a few times per month, they will not be interested in posting so much here, so they will rather be a part of the relatively silent majority?

[TxCassie]

I don't have the desire to go out in public "en femme", least not as we're speaking in this thread. I wouldn't mind attending an intimate social gathering of accepting and friendly individuals such as a dinner party. But, I don't see me driving around, shopping, or any other public outing "en femme", at least not anytime soon or in the next twenty years.

Cassie

[UNDERDRESSER]

All that being said, I've seen many pictures on this forum of young attractive young ladies who have the body size, facial features, etc who easily pass. If I had a feminine face, five foot seven and wore a size ten dress, then I would probably venture out during the day time.

Yes, me too. Why? I don't feel i have an interest in going out dressed, partly because I don't think I'd pass, but mostly I don't want to unless I can feel attractive. Why is that? These days I'm getting more adventurous as a male, the other day i went out in some outrageously bright bike shorts, why? Because i want to "display." Do others identify with this?

[Lynn Marie]

[SIZE="4"]Wow, 31 threads started out of only 151 total posts. You are quite prolific.

Some girls get out and some don't. Some are married and some aren't. Some have careers that would be in jeopardy if they are discovered and some don't. Everybody has an opinion. I guess I just don't get the question![/SIZE]

[kimdl93]

Yes, those of us who go out on occasion like to describe our experiences and encourage those who express a desire to go out. And even offer a little advice on how to make the experience work better for those who choose to go out. And granted, some uninitiated reader may conclude that this desire to go out is representative of the majority of CDrs.

I'm not advocating that everyone go out...or that anyone do so. But I fail to see any practical benefit in self censoring topics so as to avoid giving one impression or another to casual readers. If someone over generalizes that's not my problem to solve.

[RebeccaLynne]

No desire whatsoever to CD in public. I enjoy my femme time either with my SO or by myself.

I've crossdressed since I was four years old; at fifty-eight, don't think I'll be changing my mind.

[Amanda22]

I suppose we're all different in the need or desire to stay in the closet or exit the closet. I always had a feeling I'd not be satisfied with the closet, and I was right. I think the issue is when a person denies who they really are or what they really want to do. I denied myself and made excuses for hiding for so long, but when I finally faced what was authentic for myself, I went for it. I haven't looked back. That was my authenticity. For others, their destination/home is the closet and that's great. Whatever fulfills a person is just fine.

[Helen_Highwater]

Getting back to the original question, isn’t it just the same as the conversation that goes something like:

A. “I don’t like curry”
B. “Have you tried curry”
A. “No but I know I don’t like it”

Many a thread describing someone’s first time outside the house will talk of the overwhelming liberation they felt. They and I included are not saying you must, it’s more about inviting others to share in a wonderful experience.
Isn’t it also about degrees of going out? I’ve been out at night but in places where there was enough people about (for safety) but only a small chance of a close encounter.
And as for degrees of out, I can never see me going to a pub, club or restaurant enfem.

Did I say I don’t like Mongolian food?

[TGMarla]

I dress quite often. I go out rather rarely. My well-being and happiness in my crossdressing is not dependent upon my going out anywhere. It's fun, and even a bit exhilarating. But it's not what I live and die for. I'd encourage anyone who has a genuine desire to go out dressed to gather up the courage to do so. (Learn how to carry your purse before you do, though!) However, if you feel that you don't want to, then don't. It's not like you're missing some incredible life out there that will somehow fill all the empty spaces in your life. Your happiness will come from within, not from some mall somewhere while you're wearing a skirt.

[Launa]

I never thought in a triliion years I would ever go out dressed, now I want to do it a lot something must have snapped upstairs in my noggin. Its almost like my mindset has totally switched and I really don't care to dress at home. I just want to get out in the world a little more often. I used to be just fine with wearing a nice dress around the house but now it has to be FULL OUT with all the fixings!!! Even have to learn to drink girly drinks when I go out, no more beer out of the can.

[suchacutie]

That first day that I donned feminine lingerie and posed for my wife started the greatest adventure of my life. That adventure is trying to understand who Tina is, and we are doing that by letting Tina have a life that is not necessarily linked to her male self in any way. When the transformation occurs and Tina arrives the focus is on how Tina thinks and acts, her desires, her traits, and her wants. This transformation almost always happens with her girlfriend (my wife!) and the two of them spend time as girlfriends.

Whether or not this adventure would include other people was never thought of as some barrier. My wife's first question to Tina seems always to be, "how are you Tina and what's new in your life?". I only learned about this "barrier" of private vs. public here at the forum. Maybe it's because I trust my wife completely so her seeing Tina as ready to step out the door is all the validation I need.

The other part of it may be that there have been so many instances of sharing the fact that I am TG when I'm in male mode. Buying shoes and having an SA ask if they are for me (when I'm standing there wearing them!), or my wife handing me my first mascara and eye liner clearly telling me that "Tina" will need these now, or getting my foundation color matched at a Mac counter all tend to "normalize" the fact that I'm TG. So maybe it just wasn't something that I thought about too much!

The bottom line is that being transgendered is not about whether or not one leaves the privacy of one's abode, but rather about who our feminine selves are, and who we want them to be. Not much else really matters.

Lastly, the posts about successful and unsuccessful outings in public are a god-send to all of us. I don't see them as criticism, but as useful information to all of us, even if we never leave the living room! It's great to read about how we are all being ever-more successful in our endeavors as our feminine selves. The more successful we are as individuals, the more successful we are as a group! Successes can be measured in a lot of ways, and leaving the house is just one of them!

[Lainie]

It depends on why you do it. If it's sexually exciting, then really it should stay private. If it's personal style, or adrenaline rush, then out is better.

[Veronica27]

I just discovered this thread and there are some terrific replies. I especially agree with most of the comments by Reine, with the possible exception that some deeply closeted readers could possibly read into some messages an unintended "just do it " implication. I don't see any solution to this, as we certainly do not want to discourage folks from telling us all about their adventures, but on the other hand do not want to make anyone feel inferior. In the past I have suggested that overuse of expressions like "its all about confidence and or attitude" or "we need to be true to ourselves" might be contibuting to this impression, but the reality is that these things are essential for anyone wanting to leave their closet.

When I first allowed byself to give into my previously suppressed crossdressing desires, I was self-employed and spent about 75% of my time working at home. I could crossdress fully whenever I felt the desire, and did so about one day a week. On these days I assumed the role of a woman heading to work at her office, and remained that way, until the schoolbus brought my son home from school. This satisfied all my crossdressing "needs", and I felt no desire to leave this closet. Now that I am retired, I have been experiencing a growing feeling that my crossdressing desires are "trapping" me in my home. I have no real desires to "out" myself in front of everyone, especially friends, relatives and neighbours, and my personal situation places me among those with real legitimate reasons to not do so. The problem is that I no longer want to hang around the house, when everything else in my life is now freeing me to do whatever I want, and go wherever I please. Any time I crossdress, I feel that I am wasting what precious time I have left. I limit the extent of my dressing, so I can quickly change if the need arises, but the simplest tasks such as taking out the garbage, filling the bird feeders, and tending the garden necessitate such changes. But that is my problem, and the messages on this forum have no direct influence on my actions, but do provide helpful advice and, yes, entertainment.

Finally, the closet in this context is a word with a very wide definition. Such things as attending CD gatherings, frequenting accepting gay clubs, joining support groups, shopping in certain stores, and even going for night-time drives, can in reality be viewed as extensions of the closet, if the surroundings are totally supportive, and anticipating the presence of crossdressers. But this is a subject that should have a separate thread.

Veronica

[Mizz Nyla]

I've read this thread with great interest.
I have thought about going out dressed to a local bar that "caters" to gay/lesbian/TG/CD etc lifestyles, and the thought excites me,
but on the other hand scares me! No amount of makeup will ever make me pretty, nor I think, entirely passable unless all the patrons are quite intoxicated. Still, the desire is there, and if I get the right person to escort me I think I would like to try. After all, if I can't be accepted there then I shall never go out dressed again and resign myself to dressing in the hotel rooms as I travel for work.

[RebeccaLynne]

CDing IS at least a partly visual thing for ALL CDers of every stripe and most likely the ONLY factor for the vast majority of CDers {MEN} who probably only dress for 5 or 10 minutes at a time before deciding "maybe that's enough dressing for today". The numbers clearly support the ones in the closet are the majority theme as Reine pointed out.

Wild, I can agree with your take that many men are more visually stimulated than your average woman. However, to postulate that "the vast majority of CD'ers (men) only dress for five or ten minutes" is quite a stretch.

I'll speak only for myself... I don't CD for sexual gratification. I do so only in a genuine desire to make an emotional connection to the sex which with I feel so strongly aligned.

Yeah, I'm an "in house" CD'er. Many times referred to as "in the closet". My expression of femininity is mine to own, and I can assure you that everytime I CD, I do so for far longer than you've suggested. How could I possibly compartmentalize such a significant part of my identidy into such a small time frame?

Of course, the vast majority of people who POST here DO go out dressed, making it appear that most all CDers either want to get out of the closet or will want to eventually if they have not already.

Been a member since Aug '05. Appearances can be deceiving; I don't go out, and although I've entertained the thought, I do this for me; no one else.

If someone only dresses for 5-10 minutes at a time, a few times per month, they will not be interested in posting so much here, so they will rather be a part of the relatively silent majority?

Point well taken, Reine. And yet, I dress extensively and almost everyday (after work, of course), although my post count is low... because I only post if my viewpoint hasn't already been been expressed by others. Additionally, I'm only logged-on "en femme", and proper decorum requires me to give others the opportunity to make themselves heard without interjecting my opinion, unless doing so would prove beneficial.

It depends on why you do it. If it's sexually exciting, then really it should stay private. If it's personal style, or adrenaline rush, then out is better.

Lainie, out is not always better. My CD'ing is both a relection of who I am and personal style, not a requirement to seek approval or acceptance from those that I encounter in society; as to the adrenaline rush, suspended rollercoasters does it for me... try "Silver Bullet" at Knott's Berry Farm in Anaheim, CA... now that's a rush!