Underdressing and Transsexualism/GID

[Inna]

Great analogies LEA and ELIZABETH, in fact as I think of the subject further since most non or per-transitioners still retain male bodies and all the shaving and creams will not make their bodies any more feminine then they already are. They result to underdressing for a solution, to at least feel when covered up with bits of female exclusives that they have done best they can at the moment to regain some visible mark of femaleness within their bodies visual characteristic. Same sort of goes with clothing!

As I recall, the moment I realized undoubtedly that I am in fact a Transsexual Woman, crossdressing lost its luster as my focus shifted towards my body, I so wanted, needed to look upon my body as that of a female, clothing no longer fulfilled that need.
And such really is a best description of Gender Dysphoria, misalignment between body and mind!

[Pink Person]

I too shall try to restate some of my opinions on a low simmer.

I look forward to the day when TS and TG people start rating their brains as more important body parts than their genitals. Respect your feminine brain even if you have a penis. Don't let your penis overrule the rest of your body.

Of course being TS is different than being otherwise TG. TS people are different and special. I frequently think they are the bravest and most honest of all TG people, although I know it isn't always true.

However, (here comes the hammer) any feminine and/or female TS or TG person who tells me she is indifferent between wearing men's clothing or women's clothing is full of rank BS. The issue isn't whether you are a high fashion or low fashion person. The question is whether you have a positive personal bias for one gender style or the other.

I know. I know. Some of you are only performing a public service when you put on clothes. You don't want to promote gender confusion when people look at you. Others are only avoiding the fashion that doesn't fit their dicks. Dressing themselves is not personal to them in any meaningful way, except when it comes to wearing their meat suit.

What a crock. If you told a TS woman she had to dress like a man exclusively for the rest of her life, she would jump off a bridge.

I'll let the deflecting and denying by some of you resume now.

[Inna]

Hey Pink, I do agree that clothing has evolved during centuries to be gender specific, in fact lately we sort of digress a bit with difference in minor details at times. Take for instance jeans Tshirts, flats, etc. jeans are cut differently because the body is different, not by much, No! Males do not have three legs......well I suppose you could argue this point, lol, but in general jeans are jeans. T shirts accommodate for larger breasts and thinner torsos for girls.

The fact is humans have a need for expression, for woman that need is to emphasize feminine character, for guys, well guy character. Hence crossdressers go more for skirts and dresses, pantyhose and stockings, exclusives only to female attire at the same time these clothing choices in their minds are what defies sexiness in woman. TS do not strive for such all the time, because they feel comfortable expressing their female through being female, having female body. not to say that TS do not dress attractive when occasion calls for it, yes absolutely, but such is an act of expression of wearing attractive attire and not a sexual objectification.

[Sara Jessica]

All I can say now is that condescention can take on so many flavours, I'll just retreat into my trepidation.

[Badtranny]

I'll let the deflecting and denying by some of you resume now.

You know Pink, I don't think I've ever really disagreed with any of your positions before but on this one you clearly don't know what you're talking about. I take this one a little bit personally because I've tried very hard to ensure that every thing I post here is the absolute truth. I'm on record stating that I don't believe most of what I read here so it is very important to me to make sure that I never write about anything unless I'm prepared to be 100% honest about it. There are people on this board that know me well enough to call BS on almost everything. They know where I live, they know where I work and some of them have even met my mom. Everything I say here is verifiable, so when I say I never cross-dressed (until I found this site) I expect to be taken at face value. Further, when I say I don't get a thrill from women's clothes outside of just being cute than I don't expect to have my integrity questioned. Why would I lie about that when I've been so embarrassingly honest about so many things.

So why do I wear women's clothes? The number one reason is because I want to be seen as and treated as a woman. The ONLY reason I transitioned is because I was tired of acting like a guy and being treated like a guy. I did NOT transition for the wardrobe I promise you. A few girls here have seen me in casual mode and I pretty much wear jeans and tshirts every weekend, and sometimes even a baseball cap. At work, I wear black slacks every single day and a blazer over a feminine top. I have not shaved my legs in at least a month because I haven't worn a dress or skirt in at least that long. I do not enjoy shaving my legs. Wearing men's clothes would NOT bother me except that I would LOOK too much like a man for my comfort. I am fairly fem looking for an early transitioner but I still have enough masculine cues that dressing like a dude would tend to scream dude at this point, maybe forever.

You are making the same mistake in logic that pretty much anyone who isn't transitioning would make. That a TS is just an extreme CD and that is simply not true. I was never compelled to wear women's clothes and I can tell you for sure that I didn't and don't do it for physical pleasure. I do it now because I have transitioned. My name has changed. I intend to appear to the world as a woman so I need to dress the part. Is it fun? Absolutely. I love wearing cute outfits and coordinating jewelry and I especially love flashing my hard earned belly and cleavage within the context of the right outfit. The trouble with your next thought is; I also enjoyed dressing up as a man. I loved wearing sharp blazers and ties. I wore a blazer and button down shirt to the office almost everyday and our office is decidedly more casual than that. I liked a snazzy pair of shoes, and I always had snappy socks that would match the tie or the shirt in some way.

Some TS women cross-dressed for years but the very nature of being TS means that they did it for different reasons than a CD. TS MtF people don't enjoy being men. I may have enjoyed "dressing" like a man, but I didn't enjoy BEING a man. I tried as hard as anyone could but it wasn't in my nature. Never once did I wish I was a girl so I could "wear whatever I want". Throughout my life, clothes were never an issue. My issue was with my body. My issue was with how everybody treated me. My issue was with how I was expected to act or react. My issue was with how women perceived me. I can't speak for my brain, but my heart was feminine and my life was slowly breaking my heart until I finally had to stop the world and get off.

Coming to grips with who I was and finally accepting my path was extremely difficult and tearfully agonizing at times but the one thing that was never an issue was my clothes. I did cross dress for a year before I finally gave up and transitioned and yes it was mostly a lot of fun. It was also very painful on a few occasions and had I not transitioned, I can tell you for sure that I would not be cross-dressing today. It was just too hard.

[Bree-asaurus]

I too shall try to restate some of my opinions on a low simmer.

I look forward to the day when TS and TG people start rating their brains as more important body parts than their genitals. Respect your feminine brain even if you have a penis. Don't let your penis overrule the rest of your body.

Of course being TS is different than being otherwise TG. TS people are different and special. I frequently think they are the bravest and most honest of all TG people, although I know it isn't always true.

However, (here comes the hammer) any feminine and/or female TS or TG person who tells me she is indifferent between wearing men's clothing or women's clothing is full of rank BS. The issue isn't whether you are a high fashion or low fashion person. The question is whether you have a positive personal bias for one gender style or the other.

I know. I know. Some of you are only performing a public service when you put on clothes. You don't want to promote gender confusion when people look at you. Others are only avoiding the fashion that doesn't fit their dicks. Dressing themselves is not personal to them in any meaningful way, except when it comes to wearing their meat suit.

What a crock. If you told a TS woman she had to dress like a man exclusively for the rest of her life, she would jump off a bridge.

I'll let the deflecting and denying by some of you resume now.

The problem with blanket statements is that there are usually exceptions that doesn't follow the rule. <--- notice how THAT wasn't even a blanket statement :P

Anyway, I find it hard to believe that Melissa would lie about never crossdressing and frankly, I have no reason to think she would. I have a TS friend that never crossdressed either... until a couple of us took her shopping. She never had a desire to wear woman's cloths. Cloths to her never mattered in the slightest and the only reason she will ever wear women's cloths is simply because she will be living as a woman.

I'm not defending myself here... I crossdressed throughout most of my life... way back to when I was a toddler and could fit my tiny feet in my mom's giant shoes. But what is so hard to believe when a TS person said they never crossdressed?

Some TS women cross-dressed for years but the very nature of being TS means that they did it for different reasons than a CD. TS MtF people don't enjoy being men. I may have enjoyed "dressing" like a man, but I didn't enjoy BEING a man.

Thank you for saying this! I never really identified as a man, but I did play the role as best I could. One thing I eventually became darn good at (although it took me 20 years to figure out) is how to look d*** fine in men's cloths (I made a sexy gay man). I think I enjoyed putting together the outfits and then showing off my sense of style. I do the same thing now, but my boyfriend is the mannequin instead of me :P

[Marleena]

Nobody should be ashamed of whether they crossdressed/underdressed or not before starting transitioning, I really find it a moot point. Everybody was on a path of self discovery and trying to find coping mechanisms in the process. What I can say is that since I've been on HRT I no longer feel the need to dress as I once did. HRT helps me feel "right". My mind is finally at ease. That said I'm now learning to dress the part properly so as to blend within my proper gender. So clothes are still important for me in that respect and I'm working on the physical aspects as well. I'm a work in progress..

JMO as always..

[Raquel June]

However, (here comes the hammer) any feminine and/or female TS or TG person who tells me she is indifferent between wearing men's clothing or women's clothing is full of rank BS. The issue isn't whether you are a high fashion or low fashion person. The question is whether you have a positive personal bias for one gender style or the other.

Wearing men's clothes would NOT bother me except that I would LOOK too much like a man for my comfort. I am fairly fem looking for an early transitioner but I still have enough masculine cues that dressing like a dude would tend to scream dude at this point, maybe forever.

You are making the same mistake in logic that pretty much anyone who isn't transitioning would make. That a TS is just an extreme CD and that is simply not true. I was never compelled to wear women's clothes and I can tell you for sure that I didn't and don't do it for physical pleasure. I do it now because I have transitioned.

Would you even call it an argument at this point? It looks like you've both reduced your point to something that nobody can disagree with.

CDs tend to have things in common. TSes tend to have things in common. But we all have a bit of a personal twist on things.

I gotta say that Pink is pretty far from the average CD. Not a lot of silly frilly pink fog going on there. Not a lot of complaints about the wife not understanding. And Melissa isn't exactly the average TS. In my observation, at least a little more than 50% of TS girls tried pretty hard to do the straight guy thing for their whole lives (however successful they may or may not have been), and many thought of themselves as CDs for awhile.

I never got anything out of underdressing. I always felt like a pervert for any kind of crossdressing. Because my inner feelings weren't about getting any kind of sexual thrill out of expressing my femininity.

I certainly have a bias towards being feminine. I love getting my nails done. I love sparkley things. I love makeup. But I'm a little conflicted on wearing panties. It doesn't seem quite right given that they're made for someone with different junk than I have. But I've got issues. When I went to clubs all the time, I often found myself trying too hard to distance myself from CDs and point out that I wasn't being kinky. When I transitioned it took me awhile to realize that people were mostly OK with me and that I had the right to exist and that I wasn't making a mockery of women.

I think some CDs basically mock femininity by going overboard with it. Seeing someone in the pink fog can be nauseating at times. They can be absurd. But some CDs are totally classy and respectable -- which sometimes confuses me, because I thought the point in being a CD was to take a break from being a guy and get a little silly with it. But some CDs are totally low-key with it. Some drag queens make a show of mocking women. Some are pretty classy people who are great performers. And a lot of TS women are a mess. Maybe it's because they have issues. Maybe it's because they can only afford to shop at thrift stores. But sometimes it's because they just don't care. And there are plenty GGs who just don't care. And that kind sucks. Because I have a lot of respect for what it is to be a woman, and I often feel I'm not worthy, so maybe it's me who isn't right mentally, but it pisses me off to see people who just don't care.

Maybe it's completely wrong to resent a woman for being sloppy and wearing dirty sweatpants in public and just not caring about anything. Because that's pretty close to resenting a F2M guy for not appreciating being born female, and we all know that's a really stupid way to feel.

This all gets confusing for me if I think about it too hard. But to get back to my point (if I had one), if I was given two choices:

1) You can have the most awesome wardrobe in the world. People will accept however you dress and never make you feel bad, but they'll call you "him."

2) People will accept you as 100% female, and will always call you "her." Nobody will question that you are a woman. But you have to dress like a guy.

Well, I'd have to choose the 2nd option. But it would kinda break my heart if I could never get a mani/pedi, never spend 30 min. doing my eyeshadow, never get crazy highlights again, and never put on a shiny top and some big earrings and go out with my friends. Because that's awesome. But it would be more awesome to grow old and be comfortable with yourself and be respected as a woman.

Come on, Melissa... I know you'd choose the 2nd option, too, but it would hurt just a little to have to give up everything girly, wouldn't it?

[LeaP]

...
2) People will accept you as 100% female, and will always call you "her." Nobody will question that you are a woman. But you have to dress like a guy. ...

Let me translate: You have to be Hilary Clinton.

[Raquel June]

Let me translate: You have to be Hilary Clinton.

But with a cheery demeanor! So that's not so bad. Rich, powerful and cheery!

[Badtranny]

Come on, Melissa... I know you'd choose the 2nd option, too, but it would hurt just a little to have to give up everything girly, wouldn't it?

One look at my bedroom would answer that question. I am sooooooo stereotypically girly on so many things but I think it's important for me to make the point that even though I like fashion and pretty things, it did not influence my decision to transition. The clothes are a fun bonus, but the transition was driven by a desire to be honest with the world about who I am. I tried being a femmy gay guy, I tried being a cross dresser, I tried being a rough dude, and none of it felt honest or natural. The girl you see today is the girl I thought I would never see. I don't get anymore joy from getting dressed now than I did as a dude. Dressing up was fun both ways, the difference is now I get to express how I actually feel and THAT is what makes the clothes special.

Nobody transitions for the panties.

[Bree-asaurus]

One look at my bedroom would answer that question. I am sooooooo stereotypically girly on so many things but I think it's important for me to make the point that even though I like fashion and pretty things, it did not influence my decision to transition. The clothes are a fun bonus, but the transition was driven by a desire to be honest with the world about who I am. I tried being a femmy gay guy, I tried being a cross dresser, I tried being a rough dude, and none of it felt honest or natural. The girl you see today is the girl I thought I would never see. I don't get anymore joy from getting dressed now than I did as a dude. Dressing up was fun both ways, the difference is now I get to express how I actually feel and THAT is what makes the clothes special.

Nobody transitions for the panties.

I'm very much a tomboy, but other than that... I could have written that post!

Tried being this. Tried being that. I just have to be myself.

[Raquel June]

... I tried being a rough dude ...

Got any evidence of that phase? Because the guy pretending to flex standing in front of the dirt bike was clearly a big sweetie. Looked like the kinda guy who had a substantial plush animal collection and called his mom twice a week.

[Bree-asaurus]

Got any evidence of that phase? Because the guy pretending to flex standing in front of the dirt bike was clearly a big sweetie. Looked like the kinda guy who had a substantial plush animal collection and called his mom twice a week.

Dangit... I totally screwed the 'tough guy' thing too...

[Raquel June]

I totally screwed the 'tough guy'

Come again?

[Bree-asaurus]

Come again?

No you perv. The guys I screwed were too gay to be tough guys :P

Except for my current guy... he's pretty straight lol

[Raquel June]

You're never too gay to be a tough guy. Ask Freddie Mercury.
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/pictures/view/278382/

Or Ace and Gary.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ambiguously_Gay_Duo

Or these guys.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-xFidwDbHI

I could link to some tough guy videos on RedTube, but you get the point.

[Bree-asaurus]

You're never too gay to be a tough guy. Ask Freddie Mercury.
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/pictures/view/278382/

Or Ace and Gary.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ambiguously_Gay_Duo

Or these guys.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-xFidwDbHI

I could link to some tough guy videos on RedTube, but you get the point.

I don't like tough guys. I like guys who know how to deal with that they're dealt without overcompensating

[Raquel June]

I don't like tough guys. I like guys who know how to deal with that they're dealt without overcompensating

Well, overcompensating by definition is trying to cover up weakness. Confident/classy folks are the sexy ones.

I guess the stereotypical tough guy isn't actually very tough. Except for Freddie. He's badass no matter how you look at it.

[Bree-asaurus]

Well, overcompensating by definition is trying to cover up weakness. Confident/classy folks are the sexy ones.

I guess the stereotypical tough guy isn't actually very tough. Except for Freddie. He's badass no matter how you look at it.

Tough guys, in my opinion, always have something to prove. Something to prove means they are compensating for a weakness they are ashamed of.

This is so wayyyyy of topic... lol.

[Badtranny]

Got any evidence of that phase? Because the guy pretending to flex standing in front of the dirt bike was clearly a big sweetie.

I was also a bit speedy!

I didn't mean rough like a tough guy cuz I wasn't near mean enough for that. I meant rough like no regard for my own physical safety. Moto was pretty cool cuz I loved it AND even the tough guys respected me for once.

[Bree-asaurus]

I meant rough like no regard for my own physical safety. Moto was pretty cool cuz I loved it AND even the tough guys respected me for once.

I wish I still had a Ducati. I was a bit reckless on the highway... was pretty stupid sometimes.

[kellycan27]

I still have my Harley and my dirk bike.... but I ride side saddle now, and carry a parasol.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

My house looks like 3 frat guys live in it..

I have a coffee cup with a picture of a "50's era housewife" that says..."a clean house is a sign of a wasted life"

Motorcycles scare me

[Aprilrain]

My house looks like three teenage girls live in it, I sold the Harley to pay for my pretty face and my parasol blew away in the wind..............I got nothin