Divide and conquer!

[Persephone]

We can argue all we want among ourselves, but you are right Marleena and we have to put on a united front to the cis/straight world.

Who on earth "declared" that the "GLB world" are our "friends" and the "cis/straight world" is composed of our "enemies"?

On what planet do such labels make sense? Especially since the largest number of "T" folk fall into the CD/TG "categories" and the majority of those folk are "straight."

The title of this thread is "Divide and Conquer" and I can't think of a better example of doing so than by creating an imaginary "war" pitting "GLBT" against "straight"!

Hugs,
Persephone.

[LisaMallon]

Persephone, sadly that is the case.

Look 'straights' are not a homogenous group. They range from people who just don;t care, to people who are accepting, to religious nuts, to homo/trans/lesbian .. phobes.
To people who just like to beat up on weak' people, there is a 'victim' ... get them.

Now everywhere it is different, but here where I live, until the early 90s it was illegal for a male to wear womens clothes. You could be arrested.

It took lots of lobbying to change that. But without the support of the GLB community it would never have happened.
Politicians are politicians, of they can get a cheap vote 'clamping down' on 'deviants' then they will.
But if there is a large powerful group they have to fight then they will support them.

Whether you think you are 'straight' or not, the political realities are that we are classified with them.
And without their greater political clout we would be still be illegal.
So we owe them a debt of gratitude and (naturally) we must support them as well.

Which you should do anyway, since discrimination of any type is wrong.

Sadly there are a lot of 'straights' that hate us. Such as, and especially for you in the US, the religious groups that would have you in jail so fast your feet would not touch the ground.
Then there are the 'conservatives', who just hate all 'deviant' behaviour, except their own (ah lah Edgar Hoover and all those 'anti gay' people who keep getting caught in compromising gay situations, often toilets).
My own personal experience of that was as a kid with a relative in the Catholic Opus Dei ... paedophiles to a core. The amount of times that man (and his friends) tried to get into me was so not funny.

You want to dress up and don't want a SWAT team breaking into your house and arresting you .. support the GLBT groups (note that it took a lot of work by many people to get the 'T' added to that).

So we, CD/TG/TS have a lot of enemies and face quite a few predators.

And have very few supporters, except the GLB community. Don't expect a 'straight' to save you (unless it is Glen Greenwald).

So, frankly, if you are a CD, you had better support them .. or welcome a jail cell.

[Marleena]

Ah but my whole reason for posting this thread is to show the need for all TG people to be under the umbrella. It's also a plea to stick together and show compassion for the other groups. It's probably a pipe dream.

Consider this... TG people are beaten and killed simply because they are different. Wouldn't it be great to have laws changed to have it designated a hate crime? That would afford us more protection. We are a minority group. The general public can't tell a straight crossdresser from a drag queen or a TS. Lisa just pointed out other hate groups and intolerant politicians in her post.

This thread is not against humanity or CIS people, we already live among them. It's about doing battle for equality.

[Kelly Smith]

Marleena;

"Consider this... TG people are beaten and killed simply because they are different. Wouldn't it be great to have laws changed to have it designated a hate crime?"

Why should assaulting me carry a greater penalty than does assaulting anyone else?

"This thread is not against humanity or CIS people, we already live among them. It's about doing battle for equality."

If assaulting Mr. A carries a greater penalty than does assaulting Mr B, in what sense are A and B equal? Is not B being discriminated against?

[Marleena]

One is a minority. A visible, different looking, minority. Remember the days of the KKK??

If your child is TG and acting/looking differently than the other kids would you want them bullied for that? Is it their own fault? The lobby groups help educate too.

Hate motivated crime

What is hate crime?

Hate Crime is a CRIMINAL OFFENCE committed against a person or property that is based upon the victim's race, national or ethnic origin, language, colour, religion, sex, age, mental or physical disability, sexual orientation, or any other similar factor.

[Kate Simmons]

My new Avatar (no pun intended) was inspired by this thread Marleena. It is a pic of a TG Pandoran native. It symbolically shows the need for ALL TG folks (everywhere) to support one another. You know our TG Brothers and Sisters may not be limited to Terra and we will find we are more similar than we may think in many ways.

[Rebecca Star]

This thread is not against humanity or CIS people, we already live among them. It's about doing battle for equality.

The more I think about what were discussing here, while taking a glimpse around my own neck of the woods, it seems the drive to ensure political correctness has gone some what haywire - short circuited if you like.

As an example, the other day I learn the EU has passed a law on web-site cookies. Which means, any web-site which uses cookies and is accessable by anyone who is a resident of the EU, must display a list and explaination about each cookie used. If a site fails to comply and it receives EU traffic, the owner/s could find themselves looking at a legal infridgement suit. I mean seriously, has the world gone complete nuts.

While I understand protecting people's rights is a good thing, surely forcing this type of ruling on say a personal blogger...etc...etc is maddness.

Life doesn't have to be this complicated, so why are we as people allowing it to happen? It seems, the further along we go, the more convoluted and entrenched in useless BS we as a soceity are expected to live with.

IDK, maybe I see the world with rose glasses but our fight to be accepted, doesn't have to be hard. Albeit at some point we have to take a stand and be counted. Becuase if that doesn't happen, if no one is going to take the first step...well... nothing changes if nothing changes.

[AllieSF]

Marleena;

"Consider this... TG people are beaten and killed simply because they are different. Wouldn't it be great to have laws changed to have it designated a hate crime?"

Why should assaulting me carry a greater penalty than does assaulting anyone else?

"This thread is not against humanity or CIS people, we already live among them. It's about doing battle for equality."

If assaulting Mr. A carries a greater penalty than does assaulting Mr B, in what sense are A and B equal? Is not B being discriminated against?

The reason someone came up with defining certain crimes as hate crimes, in my opinion, is to try to focus on the protection of our rights and to discourage those crimes committed against the minorities referenced by Marleena. Assault is assault, and can be caused by an argument, just being vicious and attacking someone because they are in the wrong place at the wrong time, or being personally directed toward a minority. To try and reduce the incidences of crimes like assault on a minority some smart person decided that those types of hate crimes should have a stiffer penalty to discourage those crimes and to reinforce everyone's rights to live their lives as they want without fear of any type of attack by others. If someone doesn't like a certain race, religion, minority, so what because that is their right to not like something or someone. However, when they do something illegal against that person because of those differences, they will pay a justifiable higher price.

Does that help?

[AllieSF]

The more I think about what were discussing here, while taking a glimpse around my own neck of the woods, it seems the drive to ensure political correctness has gone some what haywire - short circuited if you like.

As an example, the other day I learn the EU has passed a law on web-site cookies. Which means, any web-site which uses cookies and is accessable by anyone who is a resident of the EU, must display a list and explaination about each cookie used. If a site fails to comply and it receives EU traffic, the owner/s could find themselves looking at a legal infridgement suit. I mean seriously, has the world gone complete nuts.

While I understand protecting people's rights is a good thing, surely forcing this type of ruling on say a personal blogger...etc...etc is maddness.

Life doesn't have to be this complicated, so why are we as people allowing it to happen? It seems, the further along we go, the more convoluted and entrenched in useless BS we as a soceity are expected to live with.

IDK, maybe I see the world with rose glasses but our fight to be accepted, doesn't have to be hard. Albeit at some point we have to take a stand and be counted. Becuase if that doesn't happen, if no one is going to take the first step...well... nothing changes if nothing changes.

Rebecca, I do not think that what we are talking about here is "political correctness", but more about the OP's point that when striving for more civil rights protections, i.e. the same that non-TG's have, and based on the small sizes of our individual parts of the "T" spectrum within the broader, LGBT spectrum, we will accomplish more in the long run for all of "us" by working together, than be being much smaller splinter groups trying to secure similar ends focused on their specific needs. So, I do not see an issue of "political correctness", but one about more equal treatment.

Your EU example can be looked at in another way. To protect the overall majority of people sometimes results in a smaller number of others being unduly burdened. I do not know the details of that law/regulation, but my guess is that it is meant to protect the majority. The bigger we get as a world, the more integrated we become as independent nations where communication, services and commerce cross borders, the more difficult it becomes to control for the benefit of all those that abuse the system for their own personal gain.

I think that your last statement reflects what a lot of people have said here, and to use another analogy, "The turtle goes no where unless it sticks it's neck out". And I really like your "nothing changes if nothing changes".

[kellycan27]

Just as padlocks are meant to keep "honest people" out. Laws are made for law abiding people. Just saying..............................

[sterling12]

Yeah, you would think so wouldn't you? It behooves everyone in The LGBT Community to bail that lifeboat together...or else we will surely sink!

But, in the past, we have had some notable betrayals and defections. Soon to be Former Legislator, Mr. Frank has thrown us under The Bus at least a couple of times. It usually involved something he wanted for The Gay Community, and couldn't get it without abandoning us. (The ENDA Bill is a classic example, but he didn't succeed) We have also had SOME Notable defections from SOME leading Groups that are supposed to be representing us! The President of one of these groups came down to Southern Comfort a few years ago, begging for our money and support. Then, he turned around and dumped all over The T-Community, when he wanted to impress his larger constituency.

So, even though it all makes sense; for some of us who have been around a while, it is very hard to trust a lot of these people. There are some notable groups who have ALWAYS done what's right, but it sure ain't all of them. I would suggest BEFORE anyone throws their support to anyone, or any group, that you do some serious investigation. Past Performance can be a predictor of future behavior, and there are people and groups who have lost credence and credibility. We should be involved, and part of the larger community, just not be so trusting!

Peace and Love, Joanie

[Tess]

Many have no desire to be proactive about any issue, but simply do not want other activists imposing their ideals and agenda upon them.

Veronica, that pretty much sums up my position. Its something that keeps me away from several associations where I may agree with one of the items on their agenda but don't want to support other agenda items. Call me independent.

[Debglam]

Who on earth "declared" that the "GLB world" are our "friends" and the "cis/straight world" is composed of our "enemies"?

On what planet do such labels make sense? Especially since the largest number of "T" folk fall into the CD/TG "categories" and the majority of those folk are "straight."

The title of this thread is "Divide and Conquer" and I can't think of a better example of doing so than by creating an imaginary "war" pitting "GLBT" against "straight"!

Barbara, the rest of my post discusses political alliances. Marleena, appropriately IMO, used a "war" metaphor in her OP, and others (not you) have blown this into some kind of call to arms against others. I don't see it.

I am open to alliances with ANY person of good will no matter what their background is. I do think that we can learn much from the LGB community because they have successfully achieved what the trans community wants. That is to simply be who they are. LGB people are everywhere today. They can openly be gay or lesbian or bisexual or whatever. They are at work, on TV, in the movies, etc. Almost everyone knows someone who is LGB. They have achieved tolerance and to a large extent acceptance. Isn't that what we want whether we are CD or TS or any other shade of trans?

Finally, for the most part the LGB community "get" us. Some don't but overall the LGB individuals get other people that the majority of society (the cis/straight world) don't understand. While there are a lot of allies in the "normal" world, we have a lot more friends in the LGB community.

Some people in the trans community may see nothing in common with the LGB community, and that is fine. BUT(!!!) at best they are fighting for our rights even more than some of us are, and at worst, they have given us a model to copy to reach a level of tolerance/acceptance that we are entitled to.

Deb

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Marleena, The ones that don't like us are probably affraid that we will take over them.