What upsets me and what is not fair nor equal

[Rebecca Star]

Hi All,

I like nothing more than to be able to wear what I like, when I like and not have to concern myself if soceity is going to be upset about my choices. I'm sure eventually that day will come. Whether we'll see it in our life times (I'm 51), I'm not too confident in that happening.

While I appreciate the GG's on our forum who have embraced and taken the time to understand us (CD's), there are a hell of a lot of other women out there who don't. Yet, they'll stand on the highest mountian and scream for equality.

Don't we also have a right to eqaulity too?

I understand that women wen't always treated as equals, and yes there still are chauvinistic pigs in soceity. Fortunately I'm not one of them. I'm happy to have my SO walk beside me - neither behind nor in front of me. We share what I believe is an equality in our relationship.

It just seems like issues like this seem to get so convoluted.

[docrobbysherry]

What I tell my daughter, Becca, is that LIFE is not fair. And, that bad things DO happen to good people all the time! But, we ALL have a choice:

To live our life in fear of what could happen in the worst cases.

Or, try to live your life a way that makes u HAPPY! As long as u aren't hurting others directly, u shouldn't have to fear anyone!

Finally, if u live your life according to the edicts of others, good luck on finding happiness!

[RADER]

Sometimes, it is what side of the fence you are standing on.
In some ways, Woman have an advantage, just their sex alone can open doors
that men will only wish they could; Then men have generally have a pay advantage over
women for years, and the glass ceiling only recently has been challenged if only in a few
cases. Women are the bearer of the species, therefore the raising of children have fallen
upon their shoulders. Men, being stronger by Nature, are left with the burden of supporting
the family financial. And in these time, that is not easy.
Both women and men have battled for years over who is the best; and that argument will
go no for years to come.
Rader

[Ally 2112]

Im not sure if we will ever solve this argument women and men are way different, us on this board may be closer to understanding but ! in the end it may take years and us to push for ourselves like women have (my opin ) still smilin

[BRANDYJ]

To be honest, I hope we never see the day when men are free to dress, look and act like women. I like it the way it is. Sure, sounds good, dress and go anywhere without anyone batting an eye. But I xherish the difference between men and women and don't want to see a general blend of the sexes when it comes to manor of dress in our society. You may feel it's unfair and it makes you upset. The truth is there are more important things that are still unfair to women then there are things unfair to men. The inner and outer beauty of women is something I cherish and am happy being a semi-closeted crossdresser and indulging in the simple things like their clothes, make up and manor-isms. But men will never come close to what a GG looks like and feels on the inside. I'm happy with what it is.

[Vanessa Storrs]

I thought we had equality. I go out dressed when I want and where I want. I am limited only by my own fears and timidity. We spend too much time and energy worrying about people accepting us rather than simply accepting ourselves for what we are.

[AllieSF]

Hi All,

I like nothing more than to be able to wear what I like, when I like and not have to concern myself if society is going to be upset about my choices. I'm sure eventually that day will come. Whether we'll see it in our life times (I'm 51), I'm not too confident in that happening.

While I appreciate the GG's on our forum who have embraced and taken the time to understand us (CD's), there are a hell of a lot of other women out there who don't. Yet, they'll stand on the highest mountian and scream for equality.

Don't we also have a right to eqaulity too?

I understand that women wen't always treated as equals, and yes there still are chauvinistic pigs in soceity. Fortunately I'm not one of them. I'm happy to have my SO walk beside me - neither behind nor in front of me. We share what I believe is an equality in our relationship.

It just seems like issues like this seem to get so convoluted.

Hi Rebecca. I hear your complaint, which seems so similar to so many others here about not being able to wear what you want. In reality, there is no law in my country prohibiting me from wearing what I want and where I want, unless it breaks some type of indecency laws, or obviously creates a disturbance that negatively impacts others, like wearing sexy short clothes along a busy road and maybe causing traffic jams or accidents. I would have to guess that Australia is pretty much the same with maybe some local variances. That being said, you therefore can wear whatever you want in your country, and if not there come over here, we love Aussies. The women are breaking that glass ceiling and other unfair treatments in the daily lives by doing just that, climbing a mountain and making a scene and demanding their equal rights. Now, if you cannot wear what you like in Australia because the laws for whatever reason are so much more restrictive, then climb your mountains and demand that they change those laws.

The reason it sounds convoluted to you, maybe, is because you just might be too afraid to be yourself when you want and dress as you please. When you get outside and start interacting with people, you will quickly see that the majority of people will pay you no heed and let you pass unscathed. Yes, there may be a few who take the opposite actions and call you out. But, in my reality, people just do not care as long as you do not get in their faces.

I must say that your complaint is an old one here, normally voiced by those who do not go out enough to be able to learn how to enjoy it. I do not know if you go out or not dressed. Now, if you want to dress as a guy at work one day and then the next day as a woman, that could be very problematic for everyone involved. Otherwise, walk out the door and test your culture and help them learn. Instead of complaining, why not join and participate with some pro-active groups in your country who are working toward more specific equal rights for the LGBT community.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Rebecca, two things that I've learned is that,
lifes not fair and nobody ever said that being a lady was going to be easy.

[Kate Simmons]

While I have pretty much mastered understanding the "CD mystique", I have a long ways to go in mastering understanding the "feminine mystique". That's a monumental task even the biggest brains in the world won't attempt to master as they know better. Thankfully the true sweetness of women offsets having to tackle such an impossible undertaking. In simpler terms, leave well enough alone if we know what's good for us.

[DeeDeeB]

I too have been involved in equal rights for all. Started with women's lib in the 60's, gay rights in the 70's, and on from there. I do agree we should have equal rights and we do have equal protection in many states. Hopefully it will be federal soon.

However, I disagree it is women who are our foe. It is men who feel we are degrading ourselves by wanting to be female who are the greatest threat. In a male dominated society like ours, anyone who is genetically male is denying their natural right to dominance when they express feminine charistics. These macho men are much the same as the homophones who are afraid of gays. Personally, I have always looked up to the women in my life and always tried to emulate them. My Mom was a great role model and a classy lady. Though she has passed on, I feel she would support me regardless of who I expressed myself as.

You are who you are, embrace yourself.

Dee

[April_Ligeia]

However, I disagree it is women who are our foe. It is men who feel we are degrading ourselves by wanting to be female who are the greatest threat. In a male dominated society like ours, anyone who is genetically male is denying their natural right to dominance when they express feminine charistics. These macho men are much the same as the homophones who are afraid of gays.
Dee

The real irony of crossdressing is that in one sense, it can make you more "male." If I am out expressing myself, and a guy (it's always a guy) seems to have a problem with me, I stare him down. Even though I am wearing makeup, nail polish, various degrees of women's dress, I still stare down the possible aggressive male the same way I would in "male mode." Also ironically, I think the stare down becomes more intimidating when I'm wearing makeup and the guy who thought he was going to bully me realizes that I really don't give a crap and actually will challenge/fight him.

[jillleanne]

Well all I can say to this is, " What have we, as persons done to establish a better understanding with society regarding our gender issue? Do we go out dressed en femme? Do we participate in any activities, like donating our time to a cause while dressed en femme? What specifically have we done to increase awareness of who we are? Yes, we have Pride parades( personal mixed feelings about that one. )If we all hope something will magically change the way we want it to, and do nothing to help the cause, how do we ever expect it to change in our lifetime?
Get out there and do something about it and maybe, just maybe, someone out there might just notice. Call up a school board and ask if you could do a public speaking seminar in the schools en femme. Attend church en femme. Help at the soup kitchen en femme. The only barriers to acceptance we know are the ones we create for ourselves through our fears, shame, and lack of self acceptance.

[kimdl93]

The biggest obstacles aren't those created by others, but those we impose on ourselves. Dress as you wish and be yourself. If you don't Ned the approval of others you can be free and equal.

[STACY B]

LETTING you wear what you want ? HA,,,,HA,,,,, You just do it ,,,, Ya dont want EVERYBODY doing it ! Hell it wouldn't be anyfun then ! Going against the GRAIN ,,, Be REBEL ,, Go for it ,,, Dont let no one put limits on YOU . Be a man ,,,, CROSSDRESSING is mans work ,,, GEEZ !!!!

[Nigella]

This is a recurring theme amongst the TG community and it does appear that the bulk of responses are from CDs rather that TSs. A TS who is going through full transition will at some point realise that they have to "get out and about", it is called Real Life Experience. They will overcome their fears and confront the "big wide world" full on as female.

A CD will hide behind any excuse, real or imagined, to "safeguard" themselves, family, reputation or any other thing that they hold close.

If you really believe that you need an army behind you to get out and about, albeit a silent army, then you will never overcome the fear that you hold personally. Everything is done in small steps, it does not need support groups, legislation or anything else to help you out and about. For every other group who has found "acceptance", it has been a struggle.

The only advice I can give anyone who feels that they are "hard done by" because there may not be some acceptance, is accept yourself first.

[DaphneGrey]

There is a lot more equality than you realize. In my state for example there are laws that protect TG people. Anti discrimination, job protection, housing, etc... There I am sure are some rows to hoe but frankly I don't understand what all of the talk about unfairness and male dominated society etc is all about.

The simple truth is, there is nothing stopping anyone from going out, wearing what they want, and being who they want. The only thing stopping you is you. Nigella has said it perfectly! "Accept yourself first" that is the key because if you are comfortable with who you are than what others think will not matter.

It seems that what these post are saying more often than not is. I want to be able to do what I want with absolutely no consequence and or judgement. That ladies is an unattainable pipe dream. I hate to tell you this but everybody is sized up and judged by somebody every day. For any number of reasons. Dress, age, weight, societal beauty standards, race, orientation, etc etc etc...... But in the end everybody moves along and lives their lives anyway. Because in the end nobody really cares what you do or wear. And if they did at work for example there are laws that can protect you and organizations you can turn to for support.

I have been out for years to just about everybody people might be taken aback at first, some might not understand, some are stand offish. others are curious. But in the end life goes on for all of them and for me as well. Being out in daily life going here or there most people don't notice and the ones who don't care. There are exceptions but they are few and far between.

As far as shopping goes, there are more than ten retailers I know of that have policies that encourage and protect Transgender people who want to buy their products. MAC, and Victorias Secret among them. MAC even lists ALL GENDERS in their add campaigns.



I will just add this, Men can wear whatever they want! Just as ladies can. There just are not many men that want to wear a skirt on a regular basis. But there are a few and nobody is going to stop them. The reason men do not have more fashion freedom is because they don't want it.

If you want the world to accept you, then get dressed open your door and face it! If you wait for society to wave a flag that says it is alright we all understand and want to celebrate your right to present female, then you are going to be in the closet and lonely for a long time.

Society, Men, Women, or anybody else are not to blame or scapegoat .

[Lynn Marie]

[SIZE="4"]Nothing is equal, get over it. Nobody is going to give you an equal chance. Why should they, that just makes it harder for them. We are all competing for attention here, and nobody in their right mind is going to give anybody else an equal chance if they can prevent it.

Competition is instinctive in all of us and in all living things. We all have to fight for what we want.[/SIZE]

[Rachel Morley]

IMHO I think you're pointing in the wrong direction. It seems to me that women (in the non-trans-aware population) are way more likely to be accepting of us than the men are. The "right to equality" that women do not have is for way more serious situations than the perceived inequalities that men have over clothing rights.

The fact is, in theory, we can actually wear whatever we want to. No law is being broken. It's only lack of personal confidence that is preventing you/us to be able to absorb the social stigma ... and I include myself in that too. If I had more self confidence I would probably wear more obvious girls' clothes in boy mode and also not worry about stares when I'm not passing when dressed en femme.

[ReineD]

Don't we also have a right to eqaulity too?

You do, and you are! You are not discriminated against at work for being a man, you can be nurturing at home with your kids and no one will think you are less than a man, and you can even help with the household chores without being judged.

But, gender presentation makes a statement about how you fundamentally feel about yourself to most of society, and unfortunately most people (women AND men) do not fully understand gender variance or the many different motives for crossdressing. Heck, a lot of people still have trouble with accepting same-sex preference! Yes CDing is taboo, more I think if someone switches back and forth than a TS who makes the decision to transition. At least after awhile the TS will settle into her new cisgender role (which society understands better than someone who is outside the gender binary) and people won't be as confused. They might even forget she used to present as a man especially if she is on HRT and even more so if she has had FFS.

That said, I don't know how you present. If you present full-on female but still look like a man then people will be confused. If, however, you wish to present as a man who has a feminine taste in clothing (no forms, no makeup, no wig), then I agree that it is not fair, but until we have more education about this in our society, it will remain taboo. People do not understand why a small percentage of the male population would want to wear clothing that our culture designates for women. There are, however, men who do wear man skirts/kilts (the equivalent of women wearing jeans), and they can pull it off if they have a confident air about themselves. They might, however, receive a few raised eyebrows in the same way the first women who wore pants must have, but they've got to start somewhere. Women did.

And just so you know, when F2Ms present fully male (I'm not talking about GGs who wear jeans and no makeup), they also suffer discrimination if they are read.

[Kaz]

Rebecca, there is no such thing as equality. In the raw world we are all competing, collaborating, surviving and enduring in our off-spring. We are not equal at all. We all bring different gifts and we all bring different problems.

There are LAWS on equality that are aimed at fairness and their are cultural/moral 'implied' values and principles of equality because it is in our interests to protect people's interests. But these are all social constructs.

So we will always have bigots and narrow minded people who do want equality in any form, and I see these people every day in every aspect of life.

Women have had to fight for some pretty important rights regarding their 'place' in society and they are just about there in our two countries. I would argue that they are now well ahead in most and that they certainly have freedoms that we as men do not have. But then men need to fight for their freedoms too!

I don't see this so much as an 'equality' issue but more about acceptance of human rights... and that is a judgement of societies/communities. I am not equal to Obama, but I expect the same human rights.

[Kathy4ever]

I agree withis statement. I don't knowwhat it is but when I'm wearing fem cloths out my voice seems to be lower or deeper as it was. I feel my shoulders tighten up and feel like I'm flexing the muscles that are no longer there. When I'm home alone that never happens.

The real irony of crossdressing is that in one sense, it can make you more "male." If I am out expressing myself, and a guy (it's always a guy) seems to have a problem with me, I stare him down. Even though I am wearing makeup, nail polish, various degrees of women's dress, I still stare down the possible aggressive male the same way I would in "male mode." Also ironically, I think the stare down becomes more intimidating when I'm wearing makeup and the guy who thought he was going to bully me realizes that I really don't give a crap and actually will challenge/fight him.

[ReineD]

I would argue that they are now well ahead in most and that they certainly have freedoms that we as men do not have. But then men need to fight for their freedoms too!

I don't see this so much as an 'equality' issue but more about acceptance of human rights... and that is a judgement of societies/communities. I am not equal to Obama, but I expect the same human rights.

In what way are the men in our society not free? It's true there are slightly more female college grads than men now and women are getting up there in the work-force ranks, but the top positions are still held by men, and men are not kept from moving ahead just because they are men? Also many employers are now allowing for parental leave as opposed to maternity leave. In what way are men's human rights trodden upon?

[max]

In what way are men's human rights trodden upon?

Divorce court? The lopsidedness of settlements is astounding. Plus the fact that in implementation it actually brings back debtors prisons.

[Shananigans]

Rebecca, I honestly don't have very high hopes. Even in this community, sexism exists. I just stumbled upon a reply to a thread that basically said that anything that I think is of no matter because I am a GG. Sounds a lot like what a man would say, right? You'd never expect that it's a man that likes to present as a woman. You assume a level of respect, understanding, and even community would exist between MTF CDs and GGs.

I don't see as many problems in my generation with it. I am EXTREMELY excited to go out to this club with my SO soon. (She has a dress and jewelry coming in the mail from me for her birthday...so, we're going out!!!) But, I do get very nervous when we are out in the general public, because I am wondering what older men and women are thinking. I'm sure there are younger people that have bad opinions, but for the most part it's kept to themselves.

So, I really do have a lot of hope for this generation and the coming generations...but, not much hope for the older generations.

[Stephenie S]

Divorce court? The lopsidedness of settlements is astounding. Plus the fact that in implementation it actually brings back debtors prisons.

Oh come now Max, you think YOU would agree to raise your kids on your own? I doubt it. So you object to having to pay someone else, your ex, to care for them? You are fully half responsible for them and if you've been supporting your ex also (undoubtedly true), while she cares for YOU and your kids, then you owe her something too. Do you want your kids to have a nice place to live? OK, you gotta pay for that too.

Lopsidedness of settlements? I think that's your fantasy. Divorce is never a happy time, but the numbers show that men come out of divorce far better off than the wives and mothers. Just the facts, dear, just the facts.

S