Are we giving other false expectations if they want to go out in public?

[Contessa]

I have been read in public before. But what am not going to do is get ready to go and then go online upload a picture and then wait to get any comments on how I look. I go by my making my self up, and what I think Contessa looks like and how old she is. If as many of us actually went out that are actually out there we wouldn't have as much problem.

SissyStephanie says she goes out with out make up or wig and I admire that she knows why and won't let it stop her. If you can see that your beard is coming though your makeup then next time just try to do it differently next time. And getting read means people know that you a man. They don't know your name or exactly where you reside. Why worry. Do you remember every picture of a missing child on every milk carton you have ever seen.

Who or which one of you has not seen or used the word confidence, keep your head up and smile even though you know you've been read. It lets others know that you know they know and its okay and you are having fun. Do your best when putting on your make up maybe less is more in that situation. Or do even better next time. Try remembering this as I have typed it before ALL women are beautiful but not everyone is pretty". Practice makes perfect or at least better. I hope I am not out of line on this.


Tess

[susan54]

I do not reply to these questions, because I don't believe how you are perceived in public can be conveyed in a still picture. Getting the clothes and hair right help, but make-up seems to be less important (yes, I find this surprising too - but I have gone out without it lots of times and got no reaction). What is important, and it is REALLY REALLY important, is how you move, especially how you walk. Get that even slightly wrong and you will stand out loud and clear even from a distance. And the best feedback comes from GGs when you are actually out and about. But, as others say, confidence overcomes almost any deficiencies. Because unless you go seeking out the danger areas or push things too far by going into communal changing areas,for example, no one cares if you are a guy in a dress - they have more important things to think about. You hear this message over and over again on this Forum from those of us who go out dressed at lot. Because it is true, perhaps?

[Babeba]

When someone here asks if they can pass, they're not asking if they could win the Miss Universe pageant. I don't think there is harm in saying they can pass. It will give them the boost in their step that will actually help them pass.

I think if someone is specifically asking if they pass, telling them they do when you think they do not seems cruel, don't you think? There are a lot of very attractive CDs who don't pass, and a lot of average to homely looking CDs who can pass because they just blend right.

I don't think that passing and looking 'good' are the same thing, to be honest.

[Kaz]

En femme ... I take good pictures, but don't pass that well..
En homme ... I take terrible pictures, but I pass...

C'est la vie!

Kaz xx

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Marlenna, I aways try to give an honest complement or I don't even respond to the thread.

[busker]

In this case, the forum mirrors real life. Unless you're channeling Simon Cowell you're not going to say anything negative about anyone either on-line or FTF. The important information is either couched in nicer language or not said at all.

For example, nobody will say the classic "That top makes you look fat!" What they will say is "That top doesn't seem to flatter you about the waist." Rather than saying "Your eyeshadow looks like a hooker." one might say "That eye look would be great for the evening, but you might want to mute it for daytime."

And, let's face it, the folks who are not passable at all are painfully aware of that fact. They're posting here because this is one of the few places where they can express themselves and I'm going to support them. Celebrate the good, ignore the bad.

If they are painfully aware of it, then that takes care of the question. "To thine own self be true" is a great line, and it should include the negative as well. If I don't pass, then I have to accept that and either say to hell with what people will say, or OK, I'll just dress at home. To give false praise doesn't do anyone a favor. It is the equivalent of "everyone gets a trophy" mentality. People can express themselves but if you have to fib to be supportive, best to not say a thing.

[jillleanne]

Marleena, the 'part b' to your question would be," Do we need to pass to go out in public? " I go our regularly en femme. Do I pass? I don't really know but I like to think I do with most people at a distance/passby. Have I been read? Yes, by some, but not by others. Does my voice pass? In restaurants, yes, in conversation, no. .Do I care either way? No, of course not! That's my point. If someone needs to pass to go out in public, chances are they will never go out. Getting out is not about passing for me. It's about allowing myself the freedom of expressing my gender self, and being out there in the real world feeling good about myself as I appear. It's about hearing someone call me Ma'am. or Miss, or hon, etc. It's about someone commenting on my shoes, my nails, my makeup or my clothing. It's not about whether someone that sees me say, " OMG, that is a man!! " If it were, I'd stay home and hide.

[mykhelee]

I wonder at the over all tone of this...I have not read ALL of the thread but I would like to ask a simple question...

Are we ALL paying attention as we roam through this world? There are a large number of women who we only make the "woman" connection because of make up, clothing, and the body language...voice is a distant last...I know several women with the deeper tone to their voice...not quite Contralto but not Tenor either. Several of the gals I hang out with you would not know they were women until you heard their voices...

My point is this...asides from the whole "Adam's Apple" issue...many more of us are able to pass in public than one might think. If your hair and make up are done in an age and situation appropriate manner...and you are not trying to go for the club **** look, it is much easier.

When someone asks "Do I Pass?" are you answering the question they ask?, or perhaps you are answering whether or not you find them attractive as a woman...an entirely different subject. There are many gurls who I feel could pass as long as their mannerisms are correct...can't tell that from a picture...do I find them attractive...no, but that is not what they are asking me.

They are asking if the look they are presenting could pass in public for female....in many cases the answer is yes...even if they are not physically attractive to everyone.

ok...FLAME ON!!!!!

[kimdl93]

The first time I posted a picture, one of the members, who will remain anonymous, quite accurately commented something to the effect of, "Hi, Auntie Em!" (honestly, it was a fair appraisal...maybe a bit unflattering to Auntie Em) Well it wasn't good for my ego, but it also only confirmed my conviction that I had a long long ways to go before I'd ever look convincingly feminine. People are generally kind, but I don't think we often tell people they look good if they don't. More often than not, silence speaks volumes.

Some members are pretty good at providing constructive comments when requested. I don't feel I have the skills or knowledge to offer much in that respect.

[Marleena]

Uhoh since I don't get many comments on my pictures like the younger hotties I guess I'm doomed to not passing.

[Amanda22]

Great thread, Marleena. My opinion is that if someone on this forum asks for feedback, give it to them honestly and as gently as possible. Otherwise, aren't we just playing a silly game? Personally, I know I am what I am, and even though I do the best I can, I still get read. My goal is to do the best with what I have to work with rather than trying to reach an unattainable goal.

[Cheryl T]

First of all there are very very few of us that could "pass" in the sense that that word is used in this forum.
As for determining that from a photo?? Well, that's even more difficult. You may have taken the greatest photo in the world and look fantastic, but there is so much more to going out in the public eye and not being read. Mannerisms, speech (patterns as well as voice characteristics), attire and most of all attitude.
You may have a look that succeeds in public, but all the rest are very important, especially attitude. Many will feel they look wonderful, but the reality of being in public creates a stress that may change how you act. If you are the "deer in the headlights" and avoid eye contact and interaction with others you will be noticed. If you are confident and present yourself that you belong there then you will have a much greater success rate no matter how you look.

It's not all about "passing", it's about being yourself, being confident as a woman and being accepted.

[Sarah Doepner]

En femme ... I take good pictures, but don't pass that well..
En homme ... I take terrible pictures, but I pass...

C'est la vie!

Kaz xx

You made me laugh (and I sounded like a guy). But you put your finger on my problem Kaz. I just spent too many years trying to pass as male to get it all out of my system. I'll just have to enjoy my girl time and let the criticism flow into open ears and the chips fall where they may.

[Debra Russell]

If you worry about it you will not pass - if you think you do you need to worry.....................Debra

[Chickhe]

The way I've done it. Feedback mostly only if it is asked for. Pick one or two items that can be improved and try to be positive, but honest. The best method I've used it to do a self photo and sit on it for a few days, then take an impartial look at it and really ask myself what I need to improve. ...I think the secret is to filter out the emotional aspects whether they are yours or some else's. (So ignore al the 'you look great feedback' and the hate mail) ...I think lately, the most common obvious thing I see is bushy eyebrows and unnatural looking wigs... it used to be beard shadow.

[audreyinalbany]

I've said it before and I'm sure I'll repeat it many times in the future.... Don't despair, there are plenty of women out there who are not handsome. Even though a lot of us are rather mannish, we're all just people, warts and all. It'd be great to 'pass' as a twenty something young lass, but, alas, that ship has sailed. Although i don't consider myself an attractive woman, I'm probably no less attractive as a woman that plenty of genetic females out there. When all else fails, lower your expectations.

[sometimes_miss]

First, I'm going to answer the thread's question: No, I don't think most people here try to give false expectations about going out 'en femme' in public. There is a lot of discussion about it, and pretty much each time, you have people who don't want to do it (me for one) and those who will go out without caring what everyone else thinks.
I think it basically comes down to two things: 1. You won't pass. 99% of us won't, so don't feel bad. 2. Who really gives a crap? Most people are way too self centered and concerned about how THEY look, so they don't really care about what you look like at all. Of course if you go to a small town where everyone knows you, you will get automatically read and get all kinds of surprised looks, where as if you walk through the village in Manhattan probably no one will give you a second glance.
I think most everyone here (yes, there are a few exceptions) would like to look as beautiful and female as we can....for whatever reason (and there are lots of them). We feel good in female clothing, and want others to support our desire to feel good, so we want desperately to 'pass' as the beautiful female we want to look like.
Stop looking for everyone else's approval. Enjoy what you wear, and then decide if being 'read' will cause you any problems you aren't willing to deal with. If so, don't go out, at least anywhere within about 200 miles of where anyone knows you. Because no matter how good you are at changing your appearance, something will nearly always give you away; even most professional female impersonators get read at some point.
This is a 'feel good' forum. We (mostly) support each other in our efforts to look our feminine best. But let's face it, the only ones who can regularly escape the obvious physical differences between the sexes are those who haven't reached puberty yet, and the very elderly as the sexual hormones decline enough to make us start to look much the same once again.

[Kaz]

You made me laugh (and I sounded like a guy). But you put your finger on my problem Kaz. I just spent too many years trying to pass as male to get it all out of my system. I'll just have to enjoy my girl time and let the criticism flow into open ears and the chips fall where they may.

Thanks Sarah! Glad you caught the humour! The others must forgive me, I from Yorkshire.

I don't think I have ever asked if I pass, and Marleena is right. You cannot tell from a photo. Passing in public is way more complex. I love the compliments as we all do... it is encouragement and makes us feel good.

I welcome the 'truth' in terms of how do people really feel about my pics, but 'do I pass'?... I am probably too old. I certainly have a heavy beard that is so so difficult to hide without looking like I have just applied a year's worth on foundation in 10 minutes. Up close you see the wrinkles and the badlines... in a photo these recede somewhat.

So... a better question is probably not to ask one... let's just be who we are. For those of us who are concerned about passing, there is only one way to find out.

On the pics alone, I cannot say that anyone will pass, especially if the pics have been modified at all, but I can comment on the pics... and do. But I am guilty as charged. If someone looks great I will say so. If they don't, I will try to find appropriate phrasing so as not to cause upset.

But I really think we all know what we look like? I certainly know I look better as Kaz than as 'that other guy'! But then he passes? Life is a beach!