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Thread: Think before you Post???

  1. #1
    Aspiring Member Silentpartner GG SO's Avatar
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    Think before you Post???

    A recent thread has prompted me to start this thread and I am putting this in MTF because I'm not convinced that the few people who are guilty of this bother with the Loved Ones Area - they probably dont have any loved ones. Unfortunately I've seen this scenario play out several times now and it bothers me a lot.

    A new GG comes to this forum, having just learnt or been told that her SO is a Crossdresser. Rather than run for the hills screaming "perv! perv - get out of the house" she has taken the time to search the net and found this site where she comes seeking some sort of understanding, help and advice and dare I say, reassurance that what she has just learnt is not necessarily the end of the world or her marriage. After all this forum advertises itself as A Community for Crossdressers, their Family and Friends.
    The newly arrived GG is likely to be confused, upset, angry, hurt, frightened - all or any of those things and maybe more. Whilst nobody really expects erveryone to wrap her in cotton wool and say "there there, everything is going to be fine" I really do not understand why some people think it is ok to reply to this plea for help with a downright nasty, put-down post. Its not clever, or funny, its mean and thoughtless and it does the CD/TG/TS community a serious dis-service.

    Does anyone really want it on their conscience that they may have driven away an SO/GG who was trying to understand YOU? who was trying to find a way to make her marriage work in the light of the revelation she has just had dropped on her? when she really was genuinely interested in finding out about what CD'ing was about and how it could fit into her marriage, her life and her relationship with her CD'ing SO?

    The responses given to this newly arrived GG/SO could just be the difference between her trying to accept her husband/s CD'ing or not - to offer advice or make comments in reply to these new posters is IMO quite a responsibility so maybe, if you dont have something constructive, encouraging or helpful to say, perhaps it's better to not say anything at all.

  2. #2
    CamilleLeon's SO Shananigans's Avatar
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    Good post, SP. It really felt good when I came here that I had a bunch of people that were willing to talk to me. My SO was in the closet at the time, so I was in the closet with him out of respect for his privacy. A lot of GGs here don't have a lot of people to talk to about these issues out of respect for their SO's privacy. But, a lot of people don't realize that many GGs are just as far in the closet as the CDs that they are close to. For the most part, people here are really nice. But, it seems like there are anti-GG threads every few days, and anti-GG posts on a pretty regular basis. It is a "loud minority" as I like to call it, because those posts grab your attention if you are a GG and you take it to heart. While it's nothing new or surprising to me to see men verbally abusing women for being women, I do get rather irritated when I realize that this place is probably one of the only communities out there for GGs that have a CDing SO that wants privacy. I try to remember that it is probably a very wounded person that would hate on other people based on how they were born, but at the same time dress in the role of which is designated for the people that they are bashing. It's truly a mindf*ck psychologically.

    I do believe there is a Genetic Male section for people that do not want female opinions? But, I'm going to assume it's not very popular. The majority here are in touch with their inner female, and don't hold animosity towards her. I'm not sure what is going on with people psychologically that bash on women, but want to dress and "pass" as one. I can assume it's nothing good. And, it does make me sad. But, I'd honestly rather see more people stay here and leave with a positive view on transgenderism. I'm guessing most people here do too. It's a shame, but what are you going to do?

    On a side note, sometimes things can be said that are kind of "man bashing." I know I'm guilty of it. But, it's basically like, "Ugh...men...they're all alike! Boys are gross." I think it can be equally hurtful...and, in a way it excuses unwanted male behavior. Basically, if a man is doing something "typical"...and, you write it off as "typical male behavior," you have made an excuse for that behavior. So, in a backwards way, you said it was okay because "that's how men are." But, if you hold up men to a higher standard, and don't excuse any behavior based on gender, I think the behavior becomes less excusable.

    So, I think we all kind of can take away from it that we need to treat each other better. This is supposed to be a place that is a bit more immune of gender scrutiny, but there can be animosity both ways. My guess is that we all have been influenced by society more than we are willing to admit, and we didn't leave it at the door when we came here.

    I wish we didn't really have to have different "sections"...but, I can understand people that have partners on here wanting to ask things in private. (I can understand it for the GM section and the FAB section...or, all the other closed sections). But, yeah, I once got blasted on here because someone was answering one of my replies like I was a newbie crossdresser...so, I corrected him that I was a GG. Then, I got put on blast that I didn't have GG in my name. I did it because I didn't really feel it was necessary to have that distinction...but, it's not always appreciated. It seems like there aren't many good solutions lol.

    I usually roll my eyes when people tell us to just love each other...but, I guess that's what I'm saying
    Last edited by Shananigans; 07-23-2012 at 05:50 PM.
    "Today a young man [...] realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration...that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively...there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the Weather.”-Bill Hicks
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  3. #3
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    I agree with you Silentpartner. I think I am very sure of the thread for which you are speaking of here. I just now got through reading all of the post on that thread. It was just the one poster that did a nasty unprovoked attack on this new GG member. Yes maybe she may be gone, Just MAY be, I sincerely hope not. It has been 3 or 4 days now since her last activity. We all know who this member is that came in search. It is a tragedy that she apparently read that one demeaning post, and others responded to it. I didn’t post on that thread. But, there was over 109 very positive and uplifting and very educational post’s from so many members helping her to learn more about her CD husband. I personally feel a heartfelt sorrowfulness for what transpired on that thread.

    I do want to offer a suggestion though. How about some of the GG’s that have been here a long time and have so much understanding of cd’s and GG’s that are living with news of their husbands, etc. I think because we cannot call her up on the phone, I think it may be a good idea for GG’s on here to send her a PM, offering sincere apologies on behalf of the whole site, and to explain that sometimes a mean post will come up that possibly made her go away. I feel that under the circumstances , that it would be best if only GG’s pm her, for she can relate to gg’s more than cd’s at this point in her life. Members like ReineD, Shannanigans, Eryn, Babeba, yourself as well as other GG’s could send her a PM asking her to come back. I think it should only be GG’s to this, for right now I don’t think she has much faith in us right now.

    I hope she did come back onto her thread and see how the offender was dealt with, so she could see that the offender’s post was not the norm here, and she will be given the respect she so deserves. I can say and I think I speak for a majority of cd’s here in the fact that we want her back.



    Tara-mxy

  4. #4
    Aspiring Member Silentpartner GG SO's Avatar
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    Tara thanks for your response - I agree that this situation doesnt happen very often but I've seen it before here and it is upsetting.

    Your suggestion of the PM's is a good one but unfortunately the particularly GG doesnt have many posts yet and isnt there a restriction on PM's until the 10 post mark? or is this just a one way restriction? I'm not sure of that one.

    Generally speaking, this place is great for support and help - my issue really is in the way in which very new members are treated - I do think they need a little TLC to start with.

    Shan I can relate to the "man bashing" thing - I'm sure we're all guilty of it to some degree or other - I know I am
    I like to think I'd hold off any sort of bashing if I were addressing someone who was having real issues, marriage/relationship threatening issues.

    We'd do best just to love each other - regardless of gender!

    Eryn, point taken - and I for one think the mods here do a brilliant job keeping the site virtually "nasty" free. I do tend to worry that maybe its just me who finds a certain post offensive so dont hit the report button when perhaps I should.
    Last edited by Shelly Preston; 07-24-2012 at 03:31 AM. Reason: merged

  5. #5
    Platinum Member Eryn's Avatar
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    I didn't like the post to which you are referring, as I stated in that thread. Other members commented on it before I got there and I believe that they made it clear that the disrespect showed by that one poster was not the consensus of all the members.

    I do have one very serious request. Please, please, please, if you see a disrespectful post like that use the little triangular "Report Post" icon at the lower left side of the post to report it. The mods are human and we can't read everything. If a member reports an offending post early we can deal with it quickly and effectively. If it is allowed to remain for a time and is commented on by others it becomes much more difficult to deal with the offensive post without also removing the positive responses from other members.

    I'd rather have the offending member mad at me for deleting their post than have the offending member plus a half dozen constructive members mad at me, if you catch my drift!

    Thanks, Eryn

    EDIT: I note that the OP hasn't been logged on in four or five days, yet the offending post I mentioned was made early this morning. It can't be the reason that the OP left unless she's been reading the forum without logging in.
    Last edited by Eryn; 07-23-2012 at 06:07 PM. Reason: added a thought

  6. #6
    Ice queen Lorileah's Avatar
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    I don't know the post that is being referred to here, but I hope I am never the one who would do that. I usually take the GG's side However, I know what SP is saying and while it may be only one or two who do it, it becomes a blatant post. There are a lot of angry people in this world and why a few here seem to believe that the TG's are always in the right I will never know. I want the GGs to know that this is a good place to come and talk and that some of us will try and help them understand (as much as we understand which often isn't much). It isn't limited to the Loved Ones section either. And, not to be mean, it usually is a thought out post. It is just hat the thought was directed to be venomous. Us old folks here have learned who to read and who to ignore in that case.
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  7. #7
    The 100th sheep GaleWarning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shananigans View Post
    Good post, SP.

    I do believe there is a Genetic Male section for people that do not want female opinions? But, I'm going to assume it's not very popular.
    I do not know which post you are referring to, but I concur with your sentiments. Too many of us care only about ourselves. We ought to show more consideration for the feelings and opinions of the other members, especially the GGs.

    When I joined the GM section, I imagined that it would be a place where we could forget our femme sides and instead talk about blokey stuff. But it's not like that at all! So I tend not to post there anymore.

  8. #8
    Platinum Member Eryn's Avatar
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    We do get reports of questionable posts that are actually within the rules, but most of the time there is a problem that can be addressed. If you report something that you think is amiss what you are doing is getting a second opinion from a moderator. If we agree that something is wrong we will take action. If not, there is no harm done.

  9. #9
    The Girl will Out! Kaz's Avatar
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    As this is in the MtF section... I think I may have been a 'constructive member' on this (Eryn will put me right!). Sometimes, instincts are to say 'don't get involved', but sometimes action is required and then men (even if they want to be women) will pile in to protect. It is what is in our blood (or rather genes/hormones) - protect.

    We do all need to get more emotionally intelligent I think and many thanks to SP for raising this in a sensitive and reflective manner. I also think Shan nailed a few key issues as usual... I have learned a lot from reflecting on this and this thread has helped me a lot in terms of self-awareness.

    Kaz xx

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  10. #10
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    You sure hit the nail on the head some times a stupid comment can be the differance
    between a happy ending or a sad ending.
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  11. #11
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    I recall the thread SP is referring to and a couple of replies that I thought were less than helpful or constructive. It would be nice, but probably wishful thinking, to ask that everyone who comments to reflect for a moment, rather than offering a harsh, hypercritical or deragatorymcomment. I know how tempting it can be to offer up a glib one liner...but as in the case of a new GGAlooking for help, that's probably the least helpful and potentially most destructive possible response.

  12. #12
    Silver Member BRANDYJ's Avatar
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    Brilliant post Silent. To add my thoughts about threads posted by new GG members that came here for help, education and someone to talk to. I find it insensitive to refer to her husband in the feminine. She is new and not used to male crossdressers referring to themselves and each other "she or her". Please refer to the new GG's husband or SO as him or he. It really puts me off when I see that in responses from otherwise well meaning people. I also gringe when I see a CD start off with how wonderful it is and that he and his wife go out in public all the time, or that he dresses 24/7. I mean...talk about things that will run a scared, worried, hurt GG off before she can learn anything. She does not need to hear how deeply some of us might be invloved. Give her time to adjust and begin to understand that she and her SO are not alone before she even sees her guy in a dress! I see to many insensitive posts like this with our new GG's and there intro or first thread asking for help. You are not helping calling her husband a "SHE" .

  13. #13
    Gold Member TxKimberly's Avatar
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    I'm not sure I've seen the offending post yet, but think i know which thread you are talking about. If so, I know that I and a few others told her that she had come to the right place if she was confused because we ALL are here! I hope that you didn't think this was offensive? My thoughts were to reply with a light touch and some humor, and who knows, maybe give her a smile - something that she could clearly use.

  14. #14
    Breakin' social taboos TGMarla's Avatar
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    Thank you for posting this. You're so right.

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  15. #15
    CamilleLeon's SO Shananigans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eryn View Post
    I do have one very serious request. Please, please, please, if you see a disrespectful post like that use the little triangular "Report Post" icon at the lower left side of the post to report it. The mods are human and we can't read everything.
    I COMPLETELY forgot this button exists!! Uhhhh...this was a helpful reminder lol. ((Ashamed I forget silly things)).
    "Today a young man [...] realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration...that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively...there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the Weather.”-Bill Hicks
    “What freedom men and women could have, were they not constantly tricked and trapped and enslaved and tortured by their sexuality! The only drawback in that freedom is that without it one would not be a human. One would be a monster.” East of Eden by Steinbeck

  16. #16
    Senior Member Debglam's Avatar
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    I don't know which post you are referring to but I certainly know the story. My SO had a similar thing occur. She asked a legitimate question and some responses were downright nasty. A nice way to help someone struggling with this stuff.

    This forum is a pretty well oiled machine but maybe something like this would work: I'm on another forum and they have a "Kid Gloves" section where the rules are clearly to "make nice." Maybe something like that here???

    GG's Always Welcome!
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    Last edited by Debglam; 07-23-2012 at 08:21 PM.
    Debby

  17. #17
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    I also hate to see the uncaring and selfish posts, but I agree with Eryn. Surely everyone understands that this is the internet and there are bound to be one or two people who just don't get it, to put it nicely. I should think that most new members would be able to see this especially when other members take exception to the off-putting posts, plus there are over one hundred positive responses.

    Still, I don't blame you for being upset and wanting to air this out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Debglam View Post
    This forum is a pretty well oiled machine but maybe something like this would work: I'm on another forum and the have a "Kid Gloves" section where the rules are clearly to "make nice." Maybe something like that here???
    Our Loved Ones section has traditionally served this purpose, but new members don't always think to post there especially if they want to address their questions to CDers.
    Reine

  18. #18
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    OK............ATTENTION

    All mean people report to my office at once, I will deal with you fiercly and appropriately. And I will disscuss this with your parents.
    Play nice and love and respect one another
    That will be all.......


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  19. #19
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    Unfortunately, I don't think exhortations are going to do much good.

    I've noticed that virtually all male-dominated groups (whether on-line or RL) tend to have a certain level of sexism and misogyny which goes up if the topic of women comes up, and even more so if an identifiable woman participates. This forum (M2F CD) is no exception. (See Shananigans' post.) The talk of getting in touch with one's "feminine side" doesn't seem to translate into CDers' being more likely to ask themselves how their behavior might come across to real-life women.

    (I'm not saying that every M2F CDer here is being sexist. Lots of them don't ever post sexist stuff, and many will openly disagree with the more blatant comments. But that's true of lots of other male-dominated forums, too.)

    The grosser expressions of sexism, etc., can be contained to some extent by moderation, and that seems to be how CD.com is handling it. But that does not get at the root of the problem: men who have grown up in a society that trains males in sexist attitudes from their earliest years. There's a lot of stuff here that is sexist, but not so bad that the moderators feel justified in swinging the ban-hammer, and which is so commonplace that even if people notice it, it doesn't occur to most of them to say anything. This creates a climate in which a certain level of sexism seems normal, and which gives the misogynists the idea that more blatant stuff will find a receptive audience.

    IMHO, the only way to reduce the level of sexism is for the group as a whole to make a commitment to learning to recognize sexism and sexist attitudes, including the more everyday variety, and to making such attitudes unwelcome in this forum.

  20. #20
    Member kathtx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRANDYJ View Post
    Brilliant post Silent. To add my thoughts about threads posted by new GG members that came here for help, education and someone to talk to. I find it insensitive to refer to her husband in the feminine. She is new and not used to male crossdressers referring to themselves and each other "she or her". Please refer to the new GG's husband or SO as him or he. It really puts me off when I see that in responses from otherwise well meaning people. I also gringe when I see a CD start off with how wonderful it is and that he and his wife go out in public all the time, or that he dresses 24/7. I mean...talk about things that will run a scared, worried, hurt GG off before she can learn anything. She does not need to hear how deeply some of us might be invloved. Give her time to adjust and begin to understand that she and her SO are not alone before she even sees her guy in a dress! I see to many insensitive posts like this with our new GG's and there intro or first thread asking for help. You are not helping calling her husband a "SHE" .
    Very good point, BrandyJ.

  21. #21
    Senior Member Jacqueline Winona's Avatar
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    I thought the posts in question were just plain offensive but not for the same reasons. I think it was just one poster not having the manners to keep whatever frustration he has with women to himself. This forum is far from a sexist or misogynistic place and I don't think tarring the forum with such a broad brush is appropriate. Not that all the posts were sensitive to Miss M, but most were not like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Asche View Post
    Unfortunately, I don't think exhortations are going to do much good.

    I've noticed that virtually all male-dominated groups (whether on-line or RL) tend to have a certain level of sexism and misogyny which goes up if the topic of women comes up, and even more so if an identifiable woman participates. This forum (M2F CD) is no exception. (See Shananigans' post.) The talk of getting in touch with one's "feminine side" doesn't seem to translate into CDers' being more likely to ask themselves how their behavior might come across to real-life women.

    (I'm not saying that every M2F CDer here is being sexist. Lots of them don't ever post sexist stuff, and many will openly disagree with the more blatant comments. But that's true of lots of other male-dominated forums, too.)

    The grosser expressions of sexism, etc., can be contained to some extent by moderation, and that seems to be how CD.com is handling it. But that does not get at the root of the problem: men who have grown up in a society that trains males in sexist attitudes from their earliest years. There's a lot of stuff here that is sexist, but not so bad that the moderators feel justified in swinging the ban-hammer, and which is so commonplace that even if people notice it, it doesn't occur to most of them to say anything. This creates a climate in which a certain level of sexism seems normal, and which gives the misogynists the idea that more blatant stuff will find a receptive audience.

    IMHO, the only way to reduce the level of sexism is for the group as a whole to make a commitment to learning to recognize sexism and sexist attitudes, including the more everyday variety, and to making such attitudes unwelcome in this forum.

  22. #22
    Female Illusionist! docrobbysherry's Avatar
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    Ok, I've been gone and haven't read the GG Thread or the single Poisoned Post mentioned here. But, I'm curious!

    Why would ANYONE assume a person would take seriously just the ONE NEGATIVE post out of 109? No matter how tasteless it was? That makes no sense to me!

    Sounds like a: Tempest in a teapot?
    Last edited by docrobbysherry; 07-24-2012 at 12:33 AM.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by docrobbysherry View Post

    Why would ANYONE assume a person would take seriously just the ONE NEGATIVE post out of 109? No matter how tasteless it was? That makes no sense to me!
    That's because your thinking rationally. This thread was a serious over reaction and a veiled attempt to call out a member.
    Last edited by Miranda-E; 07-24-2012 at 12:36 AM.

  24. #24
    Platinum Member Eryn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRANDYJ View Post
    I find it insensitive to refer to her husband in the feminine. She is new and not used to male crossdressers referring to themselves and each other "she or her". Please refer to the new GG's husband or SO as him or he.
    Better yet, refer to her husband as "your spouse" as referring to her as "him" or "he" is also insensitive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miranda-E View Post
    That's because your thinking rationally. This thread was a serious over reaction and a veiled attempt to call out a member.
    If that is the case, the member did something that was wrong. Whether or not is is an overreaction depends upon your point of view. Disrespect of others, particularly those who might be fragile, is not something to encourage.

    Eryn

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asche View Post
    IMHO, the only way to reduce the level of sexism is for the group as a whole to make a commitment to learning to recognize sexism and sexist attitudes, including the more everyday variety, and to making such attitudes unwelcome in this forum.
    Wow, what a great post! The whole thing rang true to me and I thank you for posting it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Janice Winona View Post
    This forum is far from a sexist or misogynistic place and I don't think tarring the forum with such a broad brush is appropriate. Not that all the posts were sensitive to Miss M, but most were not like that.
    Janice, I don't take it that Asche was accusing the forum of being sexist. It's just one thing out of many that is difficult to get rid of when one is socialized as a male and it might even be difficult to pin-point some of the more subtle, inculcated beliefs and attitudes as being sexist. I guess. This will not apply to everyone here, as Asche pointed out, and although few members here are blatantly sexist, others can still have subtly sexist attitudes. An example are the CDers who feel more feminine when they do housework or when they wear hosiery and heels, since housework no longer falls strictly in a woman's domain, and many women today don't wear hose and heels.

    Also, I think the degree of sexism has abated with the younger generation. Genetic males born to women who believe in feminist ideals I'm guessing will think of women differently than someone who was raised say more than 30-40 years ago? I gather the person who made the comment we're all talking about is now retired.
    Reine

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