breast augmentation

[kathyLB]

Traci E. since you are SC the surgeon that i foundto do my breast aug said he had to find out the legality of doing my breast aug. what is your opinion or do you know anything on the matter ;thanks;

[Traci Elizabeth]

Traci E. since you are SC the surgeon that i foundto do my breast aug said he had to find out the legality of doing my breast aug. what is your opinion or do you know anything on the matter ;thanks;

Unfortunately, I do not know anything about having BA as my breasts have grown to a 36C on HRT alone. But I can understand your doctor's hesitation if you are wanting the BA just to have female breasts. I would think a letter from your Psychiatrist would alleviate any concerns your doctor has.

[Melody Moore]

I read your other post here where you seem pretty keen to pursue this idea of having Breast Augmentation
surgery and without seeing a therapist or even being on hormones if I am to understand you correctly, yeah?

>>> http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...ones-therapist

went to my family doctor about hormones, told him about talking to a surgeon about breast implants my GP wants to know if the surgeon thinks I need a therapist, I don't think so, going to have implants, hoping in about 30 days

Personally I think you might be making a big mistake and you might find it very hard to get breast augmentation based on some
type of informed consent model given what I know so far about your background & issues you are having with coming out your son.

So I think a therapist should be high on your agenda to be honest. Just my thoughts.

[Raquel June]

Now, I'm going to agree that the vast majority of us could use a good therapist (if only to vent). But the OP sounds like she has her mind made up, and she's almost 70. If she wants a boob job then she should probably be able to get one. I doubt she'll be full of regret in five years.

I mean, if this guy can get a boob job on a bet...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Zembic

When we are secure in our feelings we shouldn't have to pander to various gatekeepers to get permission to do what we want with our bodies.

[Stephanie-L]

It is not hard to find a plastic surgeon who will do a BA for you, no letters, no hormones, just cash. There is no law about it, and they don't have to follow any recomendations from someplace like WPATH, and that is all they are, recomendations, not rules. Most docs with a large trans patient base will follow them however. The biggest thing I see is that they can only go so large if you have no breast tissue to start with, so going on hormones for a while allows some growth and allows you to go larger. Yes, you can go back and "upgrade" in a year or two, but that is a hassle. Several years ago, before I started transition in earnest, I consulted a plastic surgeon about a BA, he was ready to do it, just pay first. But he could only get me to a B cup. I am glad I waited, I now have almost A cups and will probably be able to go at least a C, maybe a D when I get mine next year. Good luck to you............Stephanie

[noeleena]

Hi,

Here it is not a issue all you need do is see a Pysch just to make sure your of sound mind get your letter then see a surgeon .

no probs in Thailand it was done , again no ? as to my self.i did have other surgerys as well. & b a would not be ? nd,

What i would ? is why you feel you need this do you have any health issues body wise. how much spare skin do you have around you breasts now , as going on hormones does help to allow your breasts to grow not the same as a womans of cause as our bodys are different.

if you do need to go this way id check the hormone road first as that would be far better for you in the long term.

do have a talk with your G P or a woman who will have a better understanding of this concern. if you do then do your blood tests so you have a base count to work on health wise .
before trying any hormones.


...noeleena...

[Raquel June]

The biggest thing I see is that they can only go so large if you have no breast tissue to start with, so going on hormones for a while allows some growth and allows you to go larger.

if you do need to go this way id check the hormone road first as that would be far better for you in the long term.

I know everybody's just trying to be helpful/thoughtful/whatever, but what exactly is to be gained by her going on HRT? She's 20 years past menopause and she has expressed no interest in it. But she's supposed to block that little bit of testosterone that's left so she can get osteoporosis?

How many years do you think a 69-year-old should spend on estrogen before getting a boob job? She's very unlikely to see significant development, especially given that most doctors are going to give you a really weak dose because of the higher DVT risk. And I'll bet she's got enough skin.

But what if she did try to go the HRT route? Well, then she has to go see a shrink for awhile. How long? A few months? A year? Who knows? Then what should she do? Take estrogen for six months and see what happens? And then if nothing happens, what, try for a year?

I'm just saying that if she wants a boob job there's nothing illegal about getting a boob job and she should be able to find a doctor to do it. If she has her mind made up then there's just no legitimate reason to put it off.

[Melody Moore]

Raquel, there is obviously MANY issues this person has not yet addressed, like coming out to their son about there CDing.

You can't exactly hide boobs once you have them and obviously this person has not considered the ramifications of that yet.
So that is why I think this person SHOULD be seeing a therapist before going anywhere near a surgeon. If I was the surgeon
no way would I agree to do it because even with informed consent this person could still turn around later and sue the surgeon
for their own bad decision if the surgeon did not cover their arse and get a psychologist assessment done first. Trust me, it
does happen and that is why there are so many checks put in place now by gatekeepers.

[kellycan27]

Men can get peck implants, so I don't see why they shouldn't be able to get B/A .. just saying. I'll leave my opinion about the wisdom of doing it to myself. From what I have read it's not a legal issue at least here in the USA. I don't know any GG's that have had to get a psych assessment before going about getting implants. I didn't have to show any kind of evaluation before I got mine. The OP asked if it was legal, and not for personal opinions of why one shouldn't from assistant gate keepers.

[Raquel June]

If I was the surgeon no way would I agree to do it because even with informed consent this person could still turn around later and sue the surgeon for their own bad decision if the surgeon did not cover their arse and get a psychologist assessment done first. Trust me, it does happen and that is why there are so many checks put in place now by gatekeepers.

Really? Got an example of a single time when that actually did happen?

Laser hair removal is permanent. Should we all need notes from our therapists to get it? And maybe a signed form from all living family members stating that we came out to them?

Maybe people should see therapists before getting tattoos. But where do you draw the line? Is getting your ears pierced too girly? Maybe that should require a note, too. Maybe we should all need notes before we can buy women's clothes.

Maybe Michael Jackson and Joan Rivers should've gotten more therapy before they got a ton of plastic surgery. But thank God we are free to do stupid stuff without paying for advice from a professional.

I've got boobs and I don't know how to talk about my gender issues with my parents. Should I get a double mastectomy until I figure out what to say?

Seriously, where do you draw the line on our right to our own body?

Getting a vag carved into you is a touchy subject in many ways because you can change legal documents -- and you are irreversibly sterilizing yourself. But a boob job is purely cosmetic, and if women are allowed to get boob jobs then we should be able to get boob jobs and we should never need someone's stamp of approval that we're "trans enough" to do it.

Do you need to prove you're cisgendered for anything? Gatekeepers do not help our cause.

[Eryn]

Janet, the owner of Janet's closet talks about getting her implants here:

http://www.janetscloset.com/breast_implants.htm

[Melody Moore]

Really? Got an example of a single time when that actually did happen?

Haha, are you serious? There has been lots of incidents where doctors have been sued for
performing surgery on people who were not suitable. In fact the Monash Gender Centre in
Melbourne was shut down a few years ago because they bent a few rules and allowed the
wrong people to have surgery. So don't even get me started on this. Just read this as it
is highlights the fact that surgeons take a lot of convincing because of the potential litigation.

Janet, the owner of Janet's closet talks about getting her implants here:

http://www.janetscloset.com/breast_implants.htm

Thank you, this story highlights how surgeons are concerned and will not proceed with surgery if they are
not satisfied the person is out and completely comfortable about who they are with others around them.

The OP is not even out with their son yet and until such time as they are, there is going to be a reluctance
by surgeons to perform the surgery. This is something I have talked about already with a number of service
providers in discussing 'informed consent' models for surgery etc. There are standards of care and if they go
against them, it can be argued the doctor went against recommendations & they can be sued for malpractice.

[Cindi Johnson]

Raquel wrote: "When we are secure in our feelings we shouldn't have to pander to various gatekeepers to get permission to do what we want with our bodies. "

To which, I say AMEN!.

Others, those not TG, are allowed to do what they choose as long as it hurts no one else. Drink too much? No problem, pour another. Risk your life climbing Denali? Hey, it's your life, after all. In Western countries, adults are presumed to be sane unless facts clearly show otherwise. That's why we're called adults, after all.

But here in TG-Land, all seem to agree as fact that we must have a therapist decide everything with us. My God! Cannot a girl decide something on her own?

Raquel, your thoughts are indeed a much needed breath of fresh air.

[Traci Elizabeth]

Raquel wrote: "When we are secure in our feelings we shouldn't have to pander to various gatekeepers to get permission to do what we want with our bodies. "

To which, I say AMEN!.

But here in TG-Land, all seem to agree as fact that we must have a therapist decide everything with us. My God! Cannot a girl decide something on her own?

Raquel, your thoughts are indeed a much needed breath of fresh air.

What you fail to see or understand is that some individuals who claim to be "normal" and able to make their own decisions are in fact far from normal, and they don't even realize it. You don't have to look far to find some here and on the news. I can think one "orange" colored hair individual in Colorado just off the top of my head. There are also those who convince themselves that they "must be" TS so they opt for surgeries only to realize that made a big mistake, and that in fact they are NOT TS.

But your remark that you as an adult can do what you want is not founded in reality. Try for example to have SRS by walking into a surgeon's office demanding a vagina. Good luck getting one without a shrinks approval. Your whole life is dictated by rules, regulations, laws, requirements, etc. So you really think that as an adult you have complete freedom to do as you please?

[Melody Moore]

all seem to agree as fact that we must have a therapist decide everything with us.

Wrong, a therapist never makes these decisions for you, what they do is work with you to ensure that you
dont have any emotional or mental health issues that have not been addressed. And in the case of the OP
there are a few issues that I can see that need to be addressed long before they even think about breast
augmentation and the biggest issue is with coming out to their son. How do you or the OP know that the
son won't react badly to the OP who ends up regretting getting implants and now wants them removed?

Who will pay for that or will this person turn around and demand the surgeon does it for free and sues them
as well because the surgeon didn't follow protocol? I would gladly slam the door in the face of anyone if I was
a surgeon if they came to me making these types of demands and sadly that is how some surgeons are because
of delusional people who think they want to have breasts, vagina and be a woman. There is a lot more to being
a woman than that I assure you. So get use to it.

Traci, I like how some people here seem to know all about gender therapist when it is
blatantly obvious they have never seen one to have any idea about how they work. LOL

[DebbieL]

Melody is correct. There are hundreds of good reasons for coordinating medical changes with gender transition therapy with a Licensed Social Worker, Psychologist, or professional counselor. I started the transition process, and my therapist gave me hundreds of great assignments, and helped me to address a number of issues that came up. I reached the point where I was living as a woman from 6PM to 7 AM - from when I got home from work to when I left for work, and under-dressed while at the office. I had a community that supported me, and several housemates who supported me.

It was only when my wife threatened to have the judge order supervised visitation (as their father) that I had to stop the process. It was either give up the transition or give up my children, and I had concerns about their step-father, so I needed to be able to step in if necessary.

Ironically, ENDING a transition process ALSO requires a lot of therapy, sometimes even MORE therapy, since there is a much higher risk of suicide or self-destructive behavior if you are a transsexual and have to face the reality of living the rest of your life as a woman trapped in a man's body. The suicide rate among transsexuals is incredibly high, especially among teens. I should be dead 20 times over, but somehow I survived. I had two cousins who did kill themselves.

This is the real reason surgeons are so cautious about doing radical surgeries such as breast augmentation. Too often, when someone takes shortcuts, they end up getting the dramatic change, but since they haven't done the other prep work, dealt with the consequences of transition, and haven't created an environment that supports them as women. They get the boob job, but they still can't really pass, they still grow shadows, they still don't act like women, and they get read and harassed. If they commit suicide, it's usually the family, often the family that rejected them, that is trying to sue the doctor for malpractice.

[Melody Moore]

Not unless informed consent is somehow legislated into law like they did recently in Argentina with their
trans health reforms, doctors will have to stick within the WPATH guidelines or they risk being sued and
this is why there is reluctance amongst surgeons and medical practitioners to deal with trans clients.

[NCAmazon]

I know several trans girls and even Drag queen males who got BAs in the USA without any letters or consent forms from a therapist. They basically just had to fill out a form and waiver that they understood the risks and approve the surgery. That simple. These are also well known surgeons.

The doctor's just want to make sure you are serious about the surgery and implants. Simple.

[Raquel June]

Haha, are you serious? There has been lots of incidents where doctors have been sued for
performing surgery on people who were not suitable. In fact the Monash Gender Centre in
Melbourne was shut down a few years ago because they bent a few rules and allowed the
wrong people to have surgery. So don't even get me started on this. Just read this as it
is highlights the fact that surgeons take a lot of convincing because of the potential litigation.

Yes, I'm serious. You implied that people had been sued for giving breast augmentation to genetic males. I asked you for an example because I have never heard of that happening.

I understand what you're saying, and I understand that you represent most people's feelings. And you're right -- doctors have to be very careful. And I also agree that most of us could use therapy -- because transition is such a major life change that you need all the help you can get.

But in itself, needing permission to get surgery is just not something I can support. Simply on the principal of "my body my choice," and the fact that no GG needs a note from a therapist to get a boob job.

But here in TG-Land, all seem to agree as fact that we must have a therapist decide everything with us. My God! Cannot a girl decide something on her own?

Exactly. It's just that I think we've all been through a lot, and especially if we transition we could all use a really good therapist. Probably years of therapy. But I absolutely hate the precedent of actually needing permission from that therapist. That can't possibly be good.

What's the downside of not needing a therapist's approval? Just think about it! Is it that non-trans people will get surgery? Who cares? If you're that crazy, your downfall isn't going to be a boob job. You'll no doubt find something much more self-destructive.

And regardless, these rules fall under the category of things that are done with good intentions that only inconvenience people. If the rule is that you need a therapist's approval, then you'll be able to shop around for a therapist to give it to you. So it does no good. It's like needing a doctor's permission to get a card that says you can smoke weed. Have you seen the "doctors" selling marijuana cards on Venice Beach?

Anyway, I'm just honestly horrified that so many people think it's good that someone else decides for us whether or not we're transsexual.

But your remark that you as an adult can do what you want is not founded in reality. Try for example to have SRS by walking into a surgeon's office demanding a vagina. Good luck getting one without a shrinks approval. Your whole life is dictated by rules, regulations, laws, requirements, etc. So you really think that as an adult you have complete freedom to do as you please?

Wow. Those are some shocking statements from someone who claims to be politically on the far right. I guess we should take away all your guns until you can prove to a therapist that you don't have any hateful thoughts.

I know several trans girls and even Drag queen males who got BAs in the USA without any letters or consent forms from a therapist. They basically just had to fill out a form and waiver that they understood the risks and approve the surgery. That simple. These are also well known surgeons.

The doctor's just want to make sure you are serious about the surgery and implants. Simple.

Exactly. I also have met several drag queens (even several in Ohio) who got boob jobs, and a few identify more as gay than as trans.

It's scary the direction this thread has gone -- people shouting that we need to be policed and saved from ourselves. But the fact is that it's pretty easy to get a boob job, even for the guy I posted the link to who got a boob job on a bet and never claimed to be even slightly TG.

[Kristy_K]

My therapist had also said there is no letters require for a BA or a FFS in the US. Now if it was being paid for by your insurance company then they could require a letters from your therapists as they do for a SRS.

[kellycan27]

My therapist had also said there is no letters require for a BA or a FFS in the US. Now if it was being paid for by your insurance company then they could require a letters from your therapists as they do for a SRS.

Except for the fact that insurance companies don't normally cover cosmetic surgery if at all. I don't think a B/A would be considered done for health reasons.

[Kristy_K]

Except for the fact that insurance companies don't normally cover cosmetic surgery if at all. I don't think a B/A would be considered done for health reasons.

Believe it or not as of this year my insurance covers all of the steps in transitioning including BA, FFS, SRS and some electrolysis. Getting them to honor their plan has not been easy because it is all new to them and they are not for sure on how to provide the coverage. It has been a very long and hard fight. But it will help other people who transition in the future.

Dr. Marci Bowers accepts Bluecross Bluesheild now. They are working with my insurance to get my SRS scheduled. I am in hopes of hearing something within the next few weeks.

Now it does goes to show that some company's are starting recognize the important aspects of the TS. I hope there will be more company's that will follow suit.

[kellycan27]

Believe it or not as of this year my insurance covers all of the steps in transitioning including BA, FFS, SRS and some electrolysis. Getting them to honor their plan has not been easy because it is all new to them and they are not for sure on how to provide the coverage. It has been a very long and hard fight. But it will help other people who transition in the future.

Dr. Marci Bowers accepts Bluecross Bluesheild now. They are working with my insurance to get my SRS scheduled. I am in hopes of hearing something within the next few weeks.

Now it does goes to show that some company's are starting recognize the important aspects of the TS. I hope there will be more company's that will follow suit.

As i stated earlier "most" insurance will not cover cosmetic procedures. Your case if anything is the exception, not the rule.

[jackielou]

hello kathy what size breast implants are you wanting and have you worn a bra with forms the size you want to be out in public to get reactions i have large breast and have never had any problems i get a lot of looks and stairs mostly from women who smile and speak

[pamela_a]

As has been already been stated, people who are considered 'normal' aren't required to jump through all of those hoops because they are normal and think clearly. Transsexuals are NOT normal and not able to think clearly as evidenced by their desire to go against all societal sense and 'the laws of nature" and change their gender. As a result they must, as my love so perfectly put's it, go to a therapist and get letters to prove they are "crazy enough to be a woman".

I can understand those who are not sure of themselves or having other issues the need to have someone "approve" their choices. But the idea everyone needs to have someone else's approval is something I've always found offensive and demeaning.

What happened before the WPATH "guidelines" (read unbendable rules by too many) existed? Were those pioneer transitioners turned away at the surgeon's door because he wanted a letter? Did people have procedures done then later regretted them? I'm sure they did. But then if you talk to any cosmetic surgeon who has been practicing for any length of time, I'd be willing to bet they could identify at least 1 patient they had that regretted getting something done. Does that mean they should require their patients get a therapist "stamp of approval" before they do anything?

I can understand procedures covered by insurance companies can have more specific requirements. Thankfully, according to the HRC, there are more and more companies that have started to add that coverage. I'm afraid with the new "healhcare" law that will be going into effect in a few years that will soon all go away and we'll be back to fending for ourselves... but that's a completely different topic.

To the OP:
Go for it. Live YOUR life. You've more than reached the age of majority. My only caveat is be prepared for the repercussions of your decision. Like most other things in life. Just because you are 'free' to do something doesn't make you immune to everyone else's freedom to react to it.