Omg! It's 'illegal'?!?

[JessicaVal]

I just found out that the military immediately discharges anyone who is transgender, even if they have no intention of transitioning.

I am...well, scared. I am getting a divorce, finally accepted myself as a transgender, decided to come out of the closet a little, and now I could lose my entire career?

Not only that, but my professional life after the Navy could be at risk too, since the discharge can be negative, and even include jail time (rare, but it has happened)!

My life as I knew it could literally be over, or I have to continue for at least four more years, KNOWING that they don't want me...could catch me at any time...and courtmartial me for not turning myself in and ending my career myself.

I am VERY scared now. I've contacted the SLDN, but haven't heard back yet. Anyone have any experience with Gender Identity Disorder or Transgender and the US Military?

[Kelly DeWinter]

yes, it's a very lopsided policy, especialy since the military made such a big deal out of having a GLBT recognition MONTH ! Sigh, until being CD/TG is no longer a 'mental disorder', those of us in the militay will still me in the closet. Should'nt Corpral Klinger be a General in the Pentagon by now?, with the abilty to change this unjust policy ?

[Tracii G]

Just keep it under wraps until your time is up.
No sense in Pi$$ing in your cheerios

[docrobbysherry]

I was in for awhile. I found that ANY similarity to life in the Army and REAL LIFE is purely coincidental!

U want life to be FAIR? Don't volunteer, ladies! U could STILL get S-----d any day of the week in REAL LIFE! But, I think u may quadruple your odds of getting S-----d by entering any of the Services!

[Sheren Kelly]

The UCMJ can be used quite broadly, however my experience is that they only discharge sailors for cause. If your professional performance gives them a reason to discharge you, they will then find the justification. Do your job well, and don't bring your gender issues into the work environment and you should be safe.

I would be more concerned about a vindictive ex-wife than the UCMJ.

[Bree Wagner]

Jessica,

The real question is what do you mean by come out of the closet a little? If you don't flaunt it at work or show up dressed you're quite safe. Even if a whiff of it gets back to your CC it is completely within their purview to go so far as to ignore it. They have a lot of latitude in situations like that. The only time it would be likely to come into play is if you are charged with something more serious and it was thrown on as an additional charge. So, keep your nose clean, keep it out of the work environment and you have almost nothing to worry about!

While it's completely unfair that this is still classified as a dischargeable disorder I really think we're headed in the right direction, both as a society and as a military. No only is it wrong to do so, but to discharge qualified, patriotic people for no good cause (just as we did with homosexuals) in this era of a highly stressed all-volunteer force is ludicrous.

All the best,
Bree

The UCMJ can be used quite broadly, however my experience is that they only discharge sailors for cause. If your professional performance gives them a reason to discharge you, they will then find the justification. Do your job well, and don't bring your gender issues into the work environment and you should be safe.

I would be more concerned about a vindictive ex-wife than the UCMJ.

Hehe, posted at the same time I was writing and I completely agree. The UCMJ is not out to get you!

[MAJESTYK]

Just another example of the "T" being hung out to dry by the rest of the community.....
Very sorry to hear about the predicament, try to keep it as out of sight as you can. It will pass before you know and then you'll be in the clear.

[JessicaVal]

Haha, well, I appreciate all the advice and threats (I'm watching you, Kimberly!). I have contacted the SLDN and talked to them about the issue. It can be considered illegal from a number of perspectives, though none have really been enforced in any recent time-frame (say, the last decade). The biggest concern now is that coming out or being caught is considered a voluntary act and any bonuses or incentive pays have to be paid back to the government. Not an issue for some, moreso for others.

I've decided to start saving up as much as I can so that if that day comes, I can pay them back. If I can make it through the four years (hopefully not too difficult) then I'll have a nice college/transition fund saved up!

Thank you for all your support and guidance!

[Beth Wilde]

Oh how I wish the US Military would catch up with the UK. I am proud to know a couple of people in HM Forces who are going through GRS and who will continue to serve after it is complete. There is great support for ALL GLB AND T members of the UK Forces, particularly at Proud2Serve!

Good luck whichever way you choose to go Jessica, you can be proud of your service to your country, even if your country doesn't return that honour!

[Debglam]

Admit to NOTHING! They can discharge you for the action, not what someone (your ex) says about you! Bottom line is that they have to PROVE that you are a TG or CD.

Now take a deep breath and wait to hear what the SLDN folks have to say. You will not do any jail time and you will not be given a "bad" discharge! It is not as bad as you seem to think but I would be very discreet and cautious.

I spent a career in the Navy and one of my collateral duties was Legal Officer. I retired four years ago so some things may have changed but probably for the better rather than worse.

Kelly's advice is on-point.

Good luck and take a deep breath! Your unit probably has bigger fish to fry!

Debby

[JessicaVal]

You are all very right. In most situations I think you're right. I can probably keep my head down and make it through, but the additional issue is that I am in a highly trained and technical job that handles classified information and operates with honesty and integrity as a core requirement. I'm a nuclear operator. There is no second chane or over-looking in this community. If they get the whiff (say, ex-wife mentions it to a friend who puts it on Facebook, or a friend sees a bottle of perfume in my bathroom and puts it all together) now I am under investigation for a psychological disorder. Even denying everything will still keep me from doing my job as the investigation disqualifies me (guilty until proven innocent), and unless a lie and purge everything before they see it, I'm done.

Honestly the biggest problem I have is that I don't want to serve dishonestly in a field where I AS THE INSTRUCTOR get to influence and train young sailors to be honest and have the balls to stand up to anyone when they are right. I hate hypocrites...wouldn't that make me one?

I am going to wait for the SLDN. Working a few extra days under this new information wont bother me...but maybe this is a chance to stand up for the T part of LGBT. I am still going to go to my LGBT church and the CATS support group this weekend. That's what I meant by coming out of the closet. I was going to come out to immediate family and start openly talking about it with a civilian support group...but I don't think THAT will be safe if getting 'caught' is an immediate negative discharge. Now, if it's still likely to be honorable and civilian power plants don't care...well, life goes on then. Maybe I should get discharged and fight against a stupid policy. Can't fight it in here...

[Sophia Claire]

... but the additional issue is that I am in a highly trained and technical job that handles classified information and operates with honesty and integrity as a core requirement. I'm a nuclear operator. There is no second chane or over-looking in this community.

Allow me to lend a machete to your ethical thicket. As a career military intelligence professional, I can tell you that there is a distinct difference between honesty and openness. Your being a TG is none of their business, so it's not dishonest to conveniently fail to mention it. BTW, my recent PR failed to uncover it so don't worry about that too much, just use a proxy server to post here if you feel uncomfortable about that. And I really doubt that failing to turn yourself in will exacerbate the situation. Besides, exacerbate it from what to what? "You're fired" to "you're super-fired"? Because being a TG is indicative of GID, the discharge would be on medical grounds. Not dishonorable. You have to feed the admiral's dog through a wood chipper to get a dishonorable discharge these days. I went to mast twice in a week and they're considering an honorable discharge for me.

[BillieJoEllen]

When I was stationed in Germany during 1970 we had a man stationed not far from us who also happened to CD. There were numerous articles about him in the militarys Stars and Stripes. As far as I know, no action was ever brought against her.

[Michelle.M]

I just found out that the military immediately discharges anyone who is transgender, even if they have no intention of transitioning.

You're kidding! Seriously? How is this news to you? Surely you did not think that repeal of DADT also included TG protections, or did you?

A web search will direct you to the appropriate regs in each service dealing with this; in your case it's a NAVMED regulation. Start with NAVMED P-117 Change 126.

The UCMJ can be used quite broadly, however my experience is that they only discharge sailors for cause.

No matter, it's not a UCMJ issue. It's strictly an administrative discharge, and in my experience those discharges are usually processed quickly and quietly.

People assume the worst, that a dishonorable or general discharge is coming their way. Nonsense! The type of discharge will be the same as it would have been regardless of the servicemember's gender identity becoming known. In other words, if you're already eligible for an Honorable discharge you'd still get it, unless you screw this up.

When these things end up as disciplinary actions it's because the servicemember goes haywire and ends up doing something stupid, like punching out his or her First Sergeant when frustrations boil over. I've seen it happen dozens of times. Keep your act together and the worst that will happen to you is that you get an admin discharge.

On the plus side, once you get out if you're eligible for VA services the VA will provide your hormones.

I am VERY scared now.

No need to be scared unless you've outed yourself. I was in transition for 15 months while on active duty and nobody knew.

I've contacted the SLDN, but haven't heard back yet.

I don't want to sound cynical and I am certainly not offering anything that even remotely resembles legal advice, but I think the best help you're going to get from SLDN is already on their website:

http://www.sldn.org/content/pages/transgender-service1

Anyone have any experience with Gender Identity Disorder or Transgender and the US Military?

First, you need to remember that you're not alone. There are plenty of TG servicemembers, but as you've just discovered it's wise for us to stay underground. Some deal with it successfully throughout their careers; in my case, I left the service just a few months ago to complete my transition. I'd recommend that you consider one of those two paths. But being openly TG and in the military? Not really an option.

[DonnaT]

Yes, do not mention it to anyone else in the military. Unless caught, nothing they can do as long as you still have plausible deniability.

Especially don't admit it to a military doctor, lawyer or shrink. They are under no obligation of confidentiality.

The military's issues with Breanna (Bradley) Manning and Wikileaks is one reason they will have the current policies regarding transgender for a while longer.

[JessicaVal]

The US Navy is actually pretty hip on te distinction between crossdressing and gender identity disorder. Well, I should say they are hip on THEIR distinction. I think I mentioned earlier a couple of cases where sailors were prosecuted. In those cases it was taken as crossdressing (a sexual behavior, according to the Navy) and they were dealt with accordingly. One was en femme when her cousin and niece came over for a visit. Evidently she had been out to her family, so this wasn't a surprise to anyone but a nosy neighbor. Because she was engaged in a 'sexual behaviour' around a minor, she was jailed for six months and forced to register as a sex offender. This case is over a decade old, I think. Recently they just say mental health problem (CS or TS/TG) and send you on your way.

I agree with the diversity comment! I don't pretend to think my way of thinking or operating is better, but it certainly is different (and usually kinder, calmer, more patient...ok, maybe I do think it's better sometimes). Of course anyone with enliste experience knows that diversity is encouraged only so far. As Ford said, "You can have any color, as long as its black."

[TxKimberly]

Sure, I used to have a TOp Secret and worked on a nuclear missile, so I know all about the fear of being discovered. Like others said, don't flaunt it, and keep your damned head down. You only have four more years to go and I personally will slap the snot outta you if you screw it up this close to the finish line!

[JessicaVal]

Thank you, Beth. I, too, wish (and hope) we would catch up. Well, they've got three years, or so, to do it. If they legalize it, I'll be the first in line!

[Natalie_Danielle]

I was in the navy for 10+ years and with GID the whole time. One thing I learned was if you do your job so well that the navy can't live without you that they will look over quite a bit of the insignificant stuff. Just make yourself so valuable they can't afford to get rid of you.
We had a corpman that was gay and proud, he was the best doc anyone could ask for. He was never questioned and the last I heard he was a chief.

Also don't surf this site or any other LBGT site using govt computers or govt networks. ONLY use your personal computer on your personal time.
It also wouldn't be a bad idea to make sure you encrypt your computer. Aside from keeping the GID secret safe, it will keep out pesky sailors who want to use your pc. Also I would recommend not keeping pics of you of your phone, just in case security ever looks through it. It can and does happen.

Bottm line, keep the CD stuff offbase, do your job to the best of your ability and keep out of trouble. Four years will fly by.

[Aprilrain]

Here's the deal, by definition if you are a CD then you don't have GID. If your TS then you do. CDs "suffer" from "transvestic fetishism" according to the DSM IV (5 is not out yet) neither 4 or 5 adresses the now popular term "TG"

[Katrina]

I knew that any non-straight-as-an-arrow-type person was a no-no in the military years ago. That is the biggest reason why I chose not to serve. I was considering the Air Force Academy when I was in high school and had an AFROTC scholarship waiting for me that I opted not to take when I entered college, so I was serious about it.

Another thing to consider is this is part of "diversity". Diversity isn't just about the color of your skin - it is also about how you think. TG folks, having gone through a completely different life from regular folks tend to have at least somewhat of a different way of thinking about things (think: problem solving). I for one feel much safer knowing that there is some diversity of thought running/teaching about anything nuclear.

[CINDYO]

you have kept it secret for this long, just step back and keep in secret for a few more years. If you have been in the military that long, you surely must have been aware of the consequences, why the panic now

[Gillian Gigs]

When it comes to a, "don't ask, don't tell", policy, I get the feeling that there is an ignore the problem and it will go away. If the military wants you to have a "life", then they will give it to you. Someone said, "Just keep it under wraps until your time is up", that sounds like good advice to me.

[Nicole Erin]

What "can" happen and what is likely to happen are two different things.
Someone said about "having to put the Admiral's dog in a wood chipper to get a dishonorable" sounds about right.

I think the worst case scenario is this - someone might mention to your CO that you are CD. They might call you into the office and ask about it. You deny it. They talk a big talk about "proud sailors serving their country" or UCMJ blah blah blah. You drop your pants so they can see what color panties you are wearing. You salute and excuse yourself once the CO is done blabbering. Life goes on.

Yes I used to be in the military years ago. They knew i was going to a GLBT club on occasion (but I was not CD'ing back then), a couple times I flat out missed formations in the morning, and pulled a few other stunts worthy of a Beetle Bailey/Gomer Pile story. I never saw so much as an article 15 (or is it 13?)

These "young sailors" you teach are at least 18 yes? Also, as long as you are not on some high ranking officer's shit list for something serious, you have nothing to worry about.

Usually people on the shit list are the ones who flat-out defy their commanding officers. Or during AIT (A-school as the navy calls it?) we had a few people who somehow acquired a "No K.P. profile". Oh the Drill instructors LOVED to razz those folks.
I am guessing you are not one of those. Just make sure and do your KP if you ever get it

EDIT - DonnaT mentioned about Bradley Manning. I am not sure how that would connect to GLBT issues though. I mean Manning is up on espionage charges which is WAY more serious than being TG. Being TG might get one a stupid counseling but Espionage can carry a death penalty.

[stacycoral]

Allow me to lend a machete to your ethical thicket. As a career military intelligence professional, I can tell you that there is a distinct difference between honesty and openness. Your being a TG is none of their business, so it's not dishonest to conveniently fail to mention it. BTW, my recent PR failed to uncover it so don't worry about that too much, just use a proxy server to post here if you feel uncomfortable about that. And I really doubt that failing to turn yourself in will exacerbate the situation. Besides, exacerbate it from what to what? "You're fired" to "you're super-fired"? Because being a TG is indicative of GID, the discharge would be on medical grounds. Not dishonorable. You have to feed the admiral's dog through a wood chipper to get a dishonorable discharge these days. I went to mast twice in a week and they're considering an honorable discharge for me.

Admit to NOTHING! They can discharge you for the action, not what someone (your ex) says about you! Bottom line is that they have to PROVE that you are a TG or CD.

Now take a deep breath and wait to hear what the SLDN folks have to say. You will not do any jail time and you will not be given a "bad" discharge! It is not as bad as you seem to think but I would be very discreet and cautious.

I spent a career in the Navy and one of my collateral duties was Legal Officer. I retired four years ago so some things may have changed but probably for the better rather than worse.

Kelly's advice is on-point.

Good luck and take a deep breath! Your unit probably has bigger fish to fry!

Debby

When it comes to a, "don't ask, don't tell", policy, I get the feeling that there is an ignore the problem and it will go away. If the military wants you to have a "life", then they will give it to you. Someone said, "Just keep it under wraps until your time is up", that sounds like good advice to me.

Being retired reserve navy 5 active was long enough for me full time, but old navy statement is good for CD's, i dressed during my active days, but never on base, Don't ask, Don't tell Hang in there girl it will be worth it in the long run to finish your career , and thanks for serving are nation. Hugs.