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Thread: A question to CD's from a TS about employment.

  1. #1
    Princess in the making SandraAbsent's Avatar
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    A question to CD's from a TS about employment.

    Was just curious. I would venture for every one CD that is out, there are a 100 that are ranging from sorta closeted to deeply closeted. Most CDs I know I dentify as male and move on. With this in mind I have a question.

    I'm sure many of you here are management, business owners, or human resources. Tell me the honest truth here. If in the course of your day you were hiring for an opening in your company, and someone walks in as an applicant that was TS, what would you do?

    I've interviewed for several positions, where I knew the interviewer was gay or lesbian, one would naturally assume they had the guts to be out, meant they might have the guts to hire someone that is also out. The result? Nope!

    Just a hypothetical question, but lets hear what you have to say!
    Life inside the music box ain't easy
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  2. #2
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    I think that a decision maker does not necessarily do what he thinks is right but rather what is best for his company. It is an unfortunate situation but the bottom line is the bottom line. If one of us would cause a situation where we would cost him the ability to make a profit or more of a profit then our employment is not in the best interest of the company. I know that there is affirmative action and the federal government has enacted laws to prohibit discrimination but I think that employers would find another reason to not hire a TS. I don't like it but that is what the world that I think it is, is like.

    I am in public education and there are many transgendered people in my profession. I just think that the first day that I showed up to teach as a crossdresser would be my last. I think that I could continue to work in education if I were to undergo SRS but I would probably be reassigned to another school or need to seek employment in another district. I think there are situations were I could work as a CD in other professions and I'm sure that many people will contribute their opinions and stories of cd successes and failures. I look forward to reading the replies and opinions.

  3. #3
    Silver Member BRANDYJ's Avatar
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    Hi Sandra. OK, I no longer own my own business but have a few times in the past. Here is my honest answer that I guess most TS's would not like. If that applicant was TS and presented as a woman that was nearly impossible to detect has transitioned, then if fully qualified for the job I had to offer, then yes, I'd hire her. However if she was easily detected by my clients or customers, I'd have to say no. I would never do anything to make my clients and customers feel uncomfortable. A easily read TS would surely cost me business since most people feel uncomfortable around anyone that is different. If the job was in the background and not involving servicing or one on one communication with my customers or clients, then I still might hire her.
    But I'd apply my logic to even a GG that was not professionally presentable. Like if she had multi face piercings and large or many tattoos. That in fact could drive away as much or more customers and business then a TS that does not blend well. It comes down to what is and is not conducive to my business and profits.

  4. #4
    Platinum Member Beverley Sims's Avatar
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    I am not in management but, a lot of those that are are mindful of the rest of their employees are decidedly hetrosexual.
    In other words there is a reluctance to employ any one that might be seen as a man wanting to use the women's conveniences etc.
    So acceptance is still divided.
    Other excuses would be used, not suited to the tasks in hand, overqualified, and so on.
    If I held a position of personnel manager the best I may do is canvas the staff to see if they approve.
    Even fully understanding your situation and assuming you were suited for the position, I would have to go by company policy.
    Yes I do sympathize with you, it is a hard road to go down.
    I will also be interested to hear others views.
    Work on your elegance,
    and beauty will follow.

  5. #5
    Platinum Member
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    I would be entirely open to hiring a TS person, all else being equal. In fact I may be a bit biased in favor of a TS applicant.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Debglam's Avatar
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    I would not hire an unqualified person BUT I would give the transperson every benefit I could give them. If I hired him or her, I would make it clear that they had an ally.

    Look, IMHO and experience the vast majority of hirings and promotions are base on who knows who. It may not be fair but it is the way it is. If we don't look out for each other the odds are nobody else will.
    Debby

  7. #7
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    I have been a Carpenter, Foreman and Superintendent, I have hired green women and started them into
    the Apprenticeship Program with the blessing of my bosses. However, If I would have hired a cross dresser,
    Well I do believe I would be looking for a job. The Construction Industry just does not lend itself to
    Our way of thinking. Maybe some day this will all be mute, and anybody that is qualified to do the job
    can get that job; And their Sexual orientation would not play a part of the decision to hire.
    Rader

  8. #8
    Silver Member BRANDYJ's Avatar
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    Radar, the question was not about hiring a CD. The Op asked about hiring a TS. Huge difference.

  9. #9
    Making a life for Tina! suchacutie's Avatar
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    This a fascinating question. The question about gender presentation would not be one that would come up in a legally-conducted interview, along with a whole host of other questions that could potentially generate a bias that has nothing to do with the job.

    There was a time in my career that I did a lot of hiring, and interviewing. The best candidate was always the issue, with EEO considerations making sure that identified minorities were given the benefit of every doubt possible. As far as I know, gender identity is not an identifiable minority.

    So, the only answer is to be the best girl for the job.

  10. #10
    Senior Member
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    Prior to my retiring last year I was in a position where I hired quite a few people. Over the years I hired a gentlemen who was openly gay and a lovely lady who was a lesbian. I knew about both of them prior to my hiring each of them and they were up against some pretty stiff competition.
    I mention this to explain that a candidate's chance of being hired depended upon their qualifications, experience, work history, appearance and lastly my gut feel about them. That said, I believe I hired the most qualified person in each instance.
    I myself being a pre op transsexual woman would have loved to hire another transsexual woman. Alas, none ever applied for a position so I was unable to bring one into my organization. But to directly answer your question, yes, if properly qualified and she met all of the other requirements, I would have hired a transsexual woman in a heartbeat.

  11. #11
    trans punk Badtranny's Avatar
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    I'm not a CD but I do hire people when necessary and a TS man OR woman would pose a quandary. If I thought they were qualified, I would still be reluctant to hire because I would be concerned about the rest of the mangers thinking I was exercising favoritism to a sister or brother. If they were average at best, I would probably pass, but if I thought they were great then I would schedule an interview with HR along with my boss and let them make the decision with my recommendation.

    I would love to help, but my credibility has been hard earned and the last thing I want to do is be embarrassed by a fellow trans person. That may sound bad, but being trans is no guarantee of character or competence, in fact my experience is that a good half of the trans people (mostly TS women) I've met, are basically unemployable for one reason or another. We're probably ALL crazy to an extent, but a lot of us wear the crazy as an overcoat.
    Quote Originally Posted by STACY B
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  12. #12
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    I think we are still in a period where the corporate culture will impact the decision. I would like to believe that all else being equal, I would have no problem hiring a TS lady. Given that my company has one lady that transitioned on the job and another that I believe hired on (well before my time), then there isn't a closed door where I work. So given all of that, my answer would be yes.

  13. #13
    Princess in the making SandraAbsent's Avatar
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    Lots of interesting perspectives here. Some that surprised me and some that haven't. I myself would do everything I could to give another TS the job, provided she was as competent as the rest of the pack. I will tend to agree with Misty...

    I would love to help, but my credibility has been hard earned and the last thing I want to do is be embarrassed by a fellow trans person. That may sound bad, but being trans is no guarantee of character or competence, in fact my experience is that a good half of the trans people (mostly TS women) I've met, are basically unemployable for one reason or another. We're probably ALL crazy to an extent, but a lot of us wear the crazy as an overcoat.
    I see girls all the time that just make me shake my head (passable or not), while others stun me with absolute professionalism (passable or not). Many times in my life right now, I avoid other trans people unless they are very close friends. I don't need the extra attention, I draw enough all on my own. So I would have to think really hard before hiring a sister.

    So my original post was basically...Would you a CD or TS, hire a competent and qualified TS. It does not surprise me the double standard we sometime display. The claim to support equality, but then are faced with, and make decisions that contradict the equality mantra.
    Life inside the music box ain't easy
    The malots hit the gears are always turning
    And everyone inside the mechanism
    Is yearning
    To get out

    http://sandra-absent.blogspot.com

  14. #14
    Gold Member bridget thronton's Avatar
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    I would hire qualified applicant - transexual or not

  15. #15
    Rotten 80's child Nicole Erin's Avatar
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    Sandra, I would not count on the "community" for jack crap. I have a beautician license and I have been discriminated against. They usually have other excuses for not wanting to hie me but i know the truth.

    Usually the story i got was, "We are not hiring but if you call the shop up on main street, they are looking for someone" So they did the interview and now they are not hiring?

    So salons have no problems hiring some flamboyant acting gay men who are loud and obnoxious but they won't hire a TS who acts like a normal person?

    The "community" basically sucks.
    It takes a true Erin to be a pain in the assatar.

  16. #16
    Joanie sterling12's Avatar
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    OK, here's The Deal, and I think it might explain a little bit about The Situation you described.

    H.R. People are thought of as "Support" or "Staff" within The Business Structure. They are usually NOT The People who do the actual hiring, except for their own Departments. So, a good deal of their time reviewing candidates for a position, is "ruling out" people that they feel would not be a good "match" for The Manager of The Department with The Opening. Since a "Bad Match" reflects badly about their abilities to do their job, they don't spend much time thinking "outside The Box." They are looking for a Set of Check Points that match A Resume up with a job description. ("If you follow The Job Description they can't blame you!") Anything or ANYONE who varies from "The Norm" is very unlikely to get consideration to move onto Phase Two. (The Actual Interview with The Decision maker.)

    There are a couple of Variables, or Situations where a TS Person might have a better shot, but they are rare. Forinstace....The Company just got sued for A Gender Discrimination Case. logically, they would be much more likely to hire someone transgendered AFTER they got their Noses rubbed in it! Or....A Job where an individual's expertise and value was so high, it trumps most other concerns. Someone like A Design Engineer with acknowledged experience in a field that would directly effect profitability, or A medical Person with abilities that were just about impossible to find somewhere else.

    So, it's almost always "The Bottom Line" that effects these decisions. Either that, or an effort to avoid responsibility if things go wrong! I don't think it's tangible discrimination. More likely it's just C.Y.A.!

    peace and Love, Joanie
    Last edited by sterling12; 08-28-2012 at 12:07 AM.

  17. #17
    Silver Member Inna's Avatar
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    this almost needs a follow up thread, it is a great question and a serious one.

    In the slightly bigger picture it shows how one mans opinion regarding employability of an individual differs from the conglomerate, corporate and societal standard.
    Corporation is not a human, it is a machine, with strict laws which need be obeyed, that is why some of us do not look favorably upon these conglomerates as they are devoid of soul and heart.
    Also the point raised about passability of a TS is right on, all the way to the last detail.
    I am currently looking for extra employment due to new and demanding circumstances. I started about a month ago, fully passable, body of a tall woman, presentation up the par with the rest of professional woman, female voice, female mannerisms, believe me I can give a runway models a run for their money, lol, but one thing remaining, name change in courts hands awaiting process.
    Well I decided to go for it regardless, well these folks would surely understand........
    After initial conversations on the phone managers were eager to see me, after all 18 years of district and GM experience served for a couple cents on a dollar, an easy take.
    Then the interviews, poised, warm and honest conversations, for some MALE MGRs I could see a spark in their eye.....lol, then comes the hard part "so what is your legal name?" I have explained in the best possible way about past two years of life changing growth without revealing the obvious detail.....so far really good, some even nodded "Oh yeah, I know, I had gone through similar" (I nearly laughed my ars to oblivion silently) then I write my name on application..............."WHOOOOOT" their jaw drops to their lap, their eyes devoid of conscious reason look for clueless to start up their brains which apparently have exploded just a second ago, shivering words come towards me " OK............I see..................Well........................O K..................Soooo

    Not one did come through, and I am confident that if my name coincided with the image I would had gotten the job!

  18. #18
    Carla Heracane Missy's Avatar
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    most Company's will look for whats is best for the company ( like what customers want first and for most) then qualifications next that the future employee has
    if the business can not make it because of no customers then employee will not be working
    WHEN IN STRESS WEAR A DRESS
    BE HAPPY WITH YOURSELF IT ALL YOU GOT

  19. #19
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    I am absolutely in the position you describe. My first issue would be qualifications, next is distraction. Willthey cause it or be the cause of it? Will any new hire "fit in" to the group dynamic? If yes, then I don't care what the individual's story is.

  20. #20
    Swans have more fun! sandra-leigh's Avatar
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    I have run some hires. The toughest ones were the entry level positions. In one case, the applicant got the position because they were the only person who unplugged the power cord before servicing some equipment on the practical test. In another case, a massively over-qualified person did not get a position because they argued when a fairly minor flaw was pointed out to them -- thereby demonstrating that their ego was more important to them than team work. In the positions that were not entry level, it was usually pretty clear to us which of the candidates was most qualified.

    For the kind of work I'm doing now, appearance and gender are seldom issues at all, but skill and inquisitiveness and communications ability are highly important.

  21. #21
    Diamond Member Persephone's Avatar
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    I never knowingly had a TS person apply for a job in my company, but if they had and if their qulifications were up to our expectations I would have seen no reason not to hire them. The closest I can come, beyond my own proclivities for wearing heels around the office (but never in client meetings!), was that we had gay and lesbian staff members. I'm not a believer in the "LGBT community" junk, but that's the best I can do with actual practices.

    My spouse worked for a large company and she did hire a TS, not because she was a TS but because she was the best qualified. She did do a good job although my spouse says she did have some personal behaviors that my spouse feels were not necessarily related to being a TS that did require some management intervention. Most people around the company knew of her transition and accepted and worked well with her. My spouse supported her and says that she definitely would have kept her employed, but the lady left of her own accord because the medical insurance would not cover her surgery.

    Hugs,
    Persephone.
    "If you are living the life you want to live you've successfully transitioned to being the person you want to be." - Eryn.

    "If you truly care about me you should damn well want for me what I want for myself" - Michael Westen (Burn Notice)

    -.-. --.-/-.-. --.-/-.-. -../ Persephone™ and Persephone™ are trademarks of Persephone herself, accept no substitutes. The terms "en femme" and "en drab" originated with Marcia Sampson/Staylace (OBM).

  22. #22
    The 100th sheep GaleWarning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRANDYJ View Post
    Radar, the question was not about hiring a CD. The Op asked about hiring a TS. Huge difference.
    How I hate these bloody labels!

    But to answer the question ... I used to hire for a role which required the employee to interact positively with the general public. I was interested in hiring people who could do so successfully. I once hired a good and gentle soul who had a deformed arm. The general public judged that person by what they saw, not by what was unseen. Does that answer your question?

  23. #23
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    Given I am in a business that caters to the trans community (even though not exclusively), sure I would consider hiring a TS. It might even be an asset.

  24. #24
    Silver Member noeleena's Avatar
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    Hi,

    I have worked for quite a few dept's both private & govt, I have had others work with me under me & for me. I employed others as well so iv seen a few people, in our day from the 60's on till two years ago iv never had any that had a prefrance for dressing or any other form of change.

    Those i hired most did not have any trade just labourer's i just asked the person would you like to work for me on this job & if they did they were with me.

    I learnt one thing at school you can have all the pass's all the therory yet are totaly useless on the job iv proved that many times if you are not teachable then you wont be with me on the job.

    Iv had our daughter work for me on 3 jobs & she was very able & she can stand up to some men & tell them how to do a job & does things herself,

    Its about knowing whats involved & being able to do the task.

    I was in the building trade 46 years & covered all aspects from start to compleate. had other trades under myself as well.

    For me its not how they look or not , its about being hoinist up front doing your job & be reliable , & they were paid more than the going rate,

    Iv worked with men & women & iv worked as both percived male & as a woman. yes a woman on the job or building site with men under you,

    Would i hire a person who had other preferances reguardless , yes & why not , & i have though not on a building site , it was under another situsion yet i was still in charge, & had men under me whoa the power i had......he he .... sorry just had to say it,,,,, come on i have made a good boss i just treat others as i like them to treat me, simple ,

    ...noeleena...
    Last edited by noeleena; 08-28-2012 at 04:47 AM.

  25. #25
    Exploring NEPA now Cheryl T's Avatar
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    I would hire based on the job requirements and the qualifications of the applicant.
    Nothing else should matter...there's too much "equal opportunity" these days and I feel that that is one of the reasons that American businesses are struggling. They do not hire the most qualified, but to fill quotas and that detracts from the performance of the company as a whole.

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