Guitar shredding in drag?

[xdressed]

Finally! Another "musician" heard from.

Growing up, my parents had Glen Miller, Benny Goodman, Frank Sinatra, Andrews Sisters, etc. "record albums" (Yes albums). Ten or so records in a book with sleeves. You took them out and stacked them on the record changer in order and after each song, another would drop into place and play. After they finished, you took the pile off, flipped it over and played the other sides.

My point being, that was music. Music with a melody. Music written and played by musicians who could play in all the keys. Music played by musicians who didn't need a dozen or more electronic pedals and effects to make them sound good.

You can't say that metal isn't music or has no melody, and few very metal bands need loads of pedals. Generally it's just distortion on and they're good to go. In fact a lot of the 'shredders' are basically playing classical music in a metal way, and even extreme bands like Cynic, Atheist, Naked City and Shining (the Norwegian band not the Swedish one) have clear influences of jazz. Not to mention the entire Folk Metal scene. Listen to something like this song by Empyrium (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dl717...eature=related) you can't say that's not music with melody, this used to make me cry back when I was in a much darker place.

OK rant over lol, here's a picture of me in my only fem sized metal t-shirt, a tour shirt for Deicide that my guitarist got me from Deathfest \m/

[linda allen]

I should have just stayed out of this thread in the first place, obviously it's for a different generation.

But tell me please, what does "distortion" have to do with music?

[xdressed]

I should have just stayed out of this thread in the first place, obviously it's for a different generation.

But tell me please, what does "distortion" have to do with music?

The most dedicated metalheads I know are in their 40s and 50s, and Ozzy Osbourne himself is in his 60s. I don't think any music truly only for a certain generation. Hell even my mum said she actually quite like Gojira.

What does dressing up as a woman have to be with being a man? It's just a personal preference really. A lot of metal bands sing about political issues, hypocrisy of religion, cruelty to animals etc, you need an angry sound for a song like that.

[Tracii G]

If you talk to music teachers/ instructors in music theory Bach and Paganini were the metal players of their day.Out of the box playing and composing styles and yet they are considered classical.
All distortion is is using the pre-amp section of a guitar amplifier to push the signal or "drive" it.Les Paul,Chet Atkins,Carl Perkins of the 50's loved the over driven sound to some degree. The Ventures,Duane Eddy, Beach Boys of the 60's did it.The Beatles,Rolling Stones,most all your 70's bands were all driving the amps hard to get that "break up" or signal distortion.
Metal of today has taken that farther and with alternate tunings they have created something different.
Jazz and country use over driven/distorted amps too always have to some degree.Marty Stewart,Johnny Cash,Waylon Jennings etc.
I'll be 60 this month and I go all the way back to American Bandstand on TV and music has been my passion all my life.So I'm so old school and love all styles of music.
The metal music now is as good as anything out there its just different and progressing as music should.
You would be surprised how many metal players love Chet and Les and count them as influences.

[xdressed]

Back on topic a bit, a metal cover of 'Man I Feel Like A Woman' would be awesome.

[Tracii G]

Back on topic a bit, a metal cover of 'Man I Feel Like A Woman' would be awesome.

Great idea!! Yes it would be awesome.

[RachelRoxx]

Finally! Another "musician" heard from.

Growing up, my parents had Glen Miller, Benny Goodman, Frank Sinatra, Andrews Sisters, etc. "record albums" (Yes albums). Ten or so records in a book with sleeves. You took them out and stacked them on the record changer in order and after each song, another would drop into place and play. After they finished, you took the pile off, flipped it over and played the other sides.

My point being, that was music. Music with a melody. Music written and played by musicians who could play in all the keys. Music played by musicians who didn't need a dozen or more electronic pedals and effects to make them sound good.

Youre obviouslyu going by what you think metal is. Chuggy heavily distorted riffs and screaming. And yes there is a lof of bands like that but some of the best guitarists of all time were in metal bands and list classical musicians and guys like Chet, Django and people like that as influences. Just because its different than what youre used to doesnt mean its not music. Real metal lead guitarists dont have as you say "a ton of pedals", its usually just some kind of noise gate, a distortion pedal and an amp. And these guys dont just play anything, they are extremely talented and well versed in theory, composition, scales, modes, patterns, melodies. Listen to some solos, by Alex Sholenick, MArty Friedman, Kirk HAmmet, Randy Rhoads, Yngwie, Satch, Vai, i could go on and on, and if you dont hear the talent involved in constructing a piece of music like that, well, youre tone deaf. lol. Youre generalizing metal music into something its not. Me, i play with a guitar, a wah pedal, noise gate to reduce ambient sound and an amp. Thats it. And I can play in every key, every mode. You would be really surprised at the many different kinds of music a metal guitarist can play. They pull influences from Jazz, Blues, Country, Rock, Classical. I may not be a Chet Atkins or a Les Paul fan but I respect the daylights out of those guys. I know if it wasnt for guys like that a lot of what i listen to wouldnt be around. Like I said just because you dont like it or its not what you prefer doesnt mean they arent musicians or its not good. Open up a bit and im sure youd be surprised at whats out there. Dont generalize metal into just distortion and screaming because its not. Metal has taken its place rightfully in the pantheon of great music and musicians for a reason. Garbage music doesnt sell billion and billions of albums. Crap music may sell a lot at first because people are dumb but it goes away pretty quickly. Theres a reason why the great metal bands of the 80's are still around, they were awesome. Honestly though Im not surprised, not to be a dick but younger people are a lot more open minded about things like music. Older people tend to be stuck in a period and anything outside that is crap to them. I like music going back 200 years. You seem to only like music in a 30 year period. Expand your ears and i am positive you will find something new you love.

[RachelRoxx]

I should have just stayed out of this thread in the first place, obviously it's for a different generation.

But tell me please, what does "distortion" have to do with music?

Its just a different sound, It was bound to happen, musicians are always looking for way to push their equipment and instruments further. It has everything to do with music, its what music is about. Pusing boundaries, pushing the norm to change music forever. If musicians never tried doing anything different we would still be in the 1800's music wise. And honestly, you can blame Les Paul for it. He made the electric guitar what it is today. If it wasnt for him their wouldnt be distortion. So even someone you like can spawn music you dont like. Thats the beauty of music, everything is connected somehow, someway.

[Darline]

TS metal rocker

[Ressie]

Shredding is about playing fast. There's more emphasis on technique than being melodic. It's true that players like Yngwie, borrowed from Classical music, but most Classical music wasn't about playing super fast. Shredding was big in the '80s nearly 30 years ago, so it isn't anything new. VanHalen was an innovator in the late '70s - even though it wasn't metal he played, his fast techniques caught the attention of guitar students. By 1990 music went in the opposite direction with guitarists playing very basic melodies, which gave more incentive to newbies that were baffled by the shredders..

But I concur the best songs were written from the 20s-40s. There were better lyrics, more melody, and a better marriage between lyric and composition. And the Jazz musicians... wow!

[Kaz]

I should have just stayed out of this thread in the first place, obviously it's for a different generation.

But tell me please, what does "distortion" have to do with music?

Linda, It isn't a generational thing at all... Tracii and I are well old. Distortion in guitar land refers to a particular guitar tone that people like Clapton started in the 60s and the heavy metal bands took further... In what we call classical music people have always sought different 'sounds'. Classical music isn't classical at all it is just old. Mozart wasn't writing for us so we could think it was 'classical'... he was a jobbing composer trying to make a buck by being different - and he pissed off the music elite of his day!

I am not a fan of Metallica, but they have actually recorded some brilliant material ( a lot crap as well imho - but there you go!) - I bet Schubert had his off days!

I posted a pic of my Mesa Boogie combo amplifier earlier in this thread... Les Paul and Chet Atkins used amplifiers (they were amongst the first)... mine has three 'gain' stages, so I can generate different tonalities by overdriving the valves so they create a less 'clean' sound that I can use to complement the cleaner tonalities I use. The guitar you see also allows many different tonal ranges through the pick-up arrangement (pick-ups are what turn the guitar string movement into sound)... Les Paul was an inventor of the electric guitar and my fave guitar in my collection is my 1972 Les Paul Custom. And then there are effects units to further shape the sound. Rock music, in all its variants, is a complex business... and we haven't even started on bass, keyboards, drums, vocals, etc...!

So just as an orchestral composer would choose different instruments for different expressions of the music... so do guitarists use different sound effects to create a broader range of sounds...

Rant over!

[Kaz]

Shredding is about playing fast. There's more emphasis on technique than being melodic. It's true that players like Yngwie, borrowed from Classical music, but most Classical music wasn't about playing super fast. Shredding was big in the '80s nearly 30 years ago, so it isn't anything new. VanHalen was an innovator in the late '70s - even though it wasn't metal he played, his fast techniques caught the attention of guitar students. By 1990 music went in the opposite direction with guitarists playing very basic melodies, which gave more incentive to newbies that were baffled by the shredders..

But I concur the best songs were written from the 20s-40s. There were better lyrics, more melody, and a better marriage between lyric and composition. And the Jazz musicians... wow!

There is a big debate on shredding these days... Many of my younger students refer to shredding as guitar soloing/ad libbing - not just playing fast. I have always loved to play fast, but interspersed with melodic lines in the same way the great jazz legends have done. Listen to Allan Holdsworth... a highly revered jazz guitarist.. overdrive/distortion, some of the fastest playing on the planet, but what tone and musicality! Not metal, but has inspired many metal players. When guitarists get together... these genres (metal, thrash, blues, rock... whatever...) fall away. My Turkish student is into the harsher end of thrash metal... but we were doing air guitar the other night, trading riffs, listening to AC/DC, the Doors, the Who, Foo Fighters, White Stripes, you name it... the range was huge.. and loving it! And we were both watching each other's fingers on Back in Black to see who got it RIGHT!

And I still think Coltrane shredded that sax like no-one!

[xdressed]

There is a big debate on shredding these days... Many of my younger students refer to shredding as guitar soloing/ad libbing - not just playing fast. I have always loved to play fast, but interspersed with melodic lines in the same way the great jazz legends have done. Listen to Allan Holdsworth... a highly revered jazz guitarist.. overdrive/distortion, some of the fastest playing on the planet, but what tone and musicality! Not metal, but has inspired many metal players. When guitarists get together... these genres (metal, thrash, blues, rock... whatever...) fall away. My Turkish student is into the harsher end of thrash metal... but we were doing air guitar the other night, trading riffs, listening to AC/DC, the Doors, the Who, Foo Fighters, White Stripes, you name it... the range was huge.. and loving it! And we were both watching each other's fingers on Back in Black to see who got it RIGHT!

And I still think Coltrane shredded that sax like no-one!

Playing with extreme speed on a guitar is called tremlo (not sure on the spelling) picking, common modern metal technique particularly with the heavier and harsher bands.

[Tracii G]

Tremelo is basically changing pitch up or down a 1/2 step or so using the bridge or your fingers.
Speed is just playing fast and takes alternate picking which is cool.I sure can't do it right and I've been playing a long time.
Metal players are blessed with speed a dexterity.

[jenny76]

there are some REALLY talented musicians in metal.. its also how "pigsqueals" were invented ; )

[Kaz]

there are some REALLY talented musicians in metal.. its also how "pigsqueals" were invented ; )

And divebombs? Though Hendrix really got there first!!!

[xdressed]

And divebombs? Though Hendrix really got there first!!!

Hendrix is much the prototype for most of the metal bands that came after him

I also think it's worth mentioning that people don't realise how diverse metal is, for example here's a song from my solo project Lifting of the Veil: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VORB0PMuFUA

About the only thing that has in common with say, Helloween, is that they are both long songs based around the guitar: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5aIZv-Auxk

[eric45211]

70's metal is todays lite rock. It seems to progress over time as the equipment improves and you do not have to do so much experimentation to get the sound you are looking for. Wes montegomery was probably considered metalish in his day. My preference is to play and write music with feeling and emotion. Recently heard a remake of of Joe Walsh's Rocky mountain way, they completely missed what he put into the song. It is louder and faster but lacked the passion of the original.

[Kaz]

70's metal is todays lite rock. It seems to progress over time as the equipment improves and you do not have to do so much experimentation to get the sound you are looking for. Wes montegomery was probably considered metalish in his day. My preference is to play and write music with feeling and emotion. Recently heard a remake of of Joe Walsh's Rocky mountain way, they completely missed what he put into the song. It is louder and faster but lacked the passion of the original.

Passion is the thing for me... widdelydiddlying is fun, but for me it has got have soul. Enter Light may have been a bit 'sell out' for hardened Metallica fans, but that song is awesome and brings out the passion in the band - especially live! And Brian Robertson in Lizzy - awesome! Not metal, but passionate guitar...

We all need to get our gladrags on and get playing!

How many guitarist to change a light-bulb? 1 to do it and 99 to discuss how Eric Clapton would have done it! Or maybe in this case Zakk Wylde!

[Saffron]

How come no one said anything about Queen?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bn9E-HpTi4E


I also love Muse:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTFVF6Yis6g

Matt Bellamy has some skill

and last but not least, Joan Jett, goddess of rock'n'roll:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RAQXg0IdfI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3T_xeoGES8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbiYv_lNfFA

[xdressed]

How come no one said anything about Queen?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bn9E-HpTi4E


I also love Muse:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTFVF6Yis6g

Matt Bellamy has some skill

and last but not least, Joan Jett, goddess of rock'n'roll:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RAQXg0IdfI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3T_xeoGES8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbiYv_lNfFA

Queen was the first band I ever liked, and even though I'm mainly into Thrash/Black/Doom Metal etc Muse is actually my favourite band

[Tracii G]

Music is all good to me!!

[RachelRoxx]

There is a big debate on shredding these days... Many of my younger students refer to shredding as guitar soloing/ad libbing - not just playing fast. I have always loved to play fast, but interspersed with melodic lines in the same way the great jazz legends have done. Listen to Allan Holdsworth... a highly revered jazz guitarist.. overdrive/distortion, some of the fastest playing on the planet, but what tone and musicality! Not metal, but has inspired many metal players. When guitarists get together... these genres (metal, thrash, blues, rock... whatever...) fall away. My Turkish student is into the harsher end of thrash metal... but we were doing air guitar the other night, trading riffs, listening to AC/DC, the Doors, the Who, Foo Fighters, White Stripes, you name it... the range was huge.. and loving it! And we were both watching each other's fingers on Back in Black to see who got it RIGHT!

And I still think Coltrane shredded that sax like no-one!

Bach shredded, Page shredded, you get the idea. Me an all my guitar playing friends refer to ourselves as Knights of the Shredi Order. Shredi Knights. You get the pun.lol

[RachelRoxx]

Queen was the first band I ever liked, and even though I'm mainly into Thrash/Black/Doom Metal etc Muse is actually my favourite band

Brian May had one of the greatest tones of all time. And he built his own guitars. Dude had skills!