an interesting link

[Rachel Ann]

Speech to PFLAG link removed at the behest of PFLAG. PM me for text of speech.

I think that Ms. Bloom is off base by describing cross dressing as a "fetish" and the exclusive excitement as sexual, but those are her words, not Diane's.

Sometimes I think we are getting it from both sides.

[LaurenAnne]

I think that Ms. Bloom is off base by describing cross dressing as a "fetish" and the exclusive excitement as sexual, but those are her words, not Diane's.

While I don't agree fully w/ Ms. Bloom's quote presented in that link, there is a grain of truth there. Crossdressing runs the spectrum from a full on transsexual to the heterosexual panty fetishist & everywhere inbetween. The varied reasons and motivations for crossdressing are what I believe make it such an interesting topic.

[clarissa3d]

I dont like it not one bit!

It just adds more fuel to those who do not understand the diversity of crossdressing.

Again here is another group that makes statements that are full of half truthes and missdirection.

There are some points there that are true but in the way it is stated does not help matters.
:mad:

[Rachel Ann]

Clarissa

I dont like it not one bit!

I certainly didn’t mean to provoke any reactions like yours.

It just adds more fuel to those who do not understand the diversity of crossdressing.

It’s just one person’s opinion, and not entirely mine, but I think that Diane is trying to extend diversity rather than limiting it. We hetero CDs just want to be accepted for who we are, like everybody else. If I am missing your point, please explain it to me.

Again here is another group that makes statements that are full of half truths and misdirection.

I’ll have to ask you to be more specific. I don’t agree with some of the generalizations. I would have liked to see more use of words like “often”, “generally”, or “in many cases” to get rid of the implied “always”.

There are some points there that are true but in the way it is stated does not help matters.

Well it helps some of us. When I Googled transgender AND definition, up came 138,000 hits. I looked at enough of them, many from “authoritative” sources, to see that they contradict each other in various ways. Many admit in their text that it is a new and evolving term. Even the “sex vs. gender” definitions (373,000 Google hits) are still all over the map.

A lot of us are, frankly, confused about what TG means and whether we belong in that category. And, nobody likes to be assigned to a category by somebody else - all of us have certainly had that experience!

I am still a man, I am not attracted to men, and I’ve never wished that I were a biological woman. I am beginning to think that I am TG in my heart, mind and soul, but some like me aren’t ready to even go that far. Subsuming us all in to some other category in advance will likely just drive many back in to the closet.

All I ask is that we let the dust settle a bit on this before saying that anything is absolutely and always so. I know a post-op TS who says “I’m really a third sex but the state makes me have an F on my driver’s license”.

Again, Ms. Bloom’s comment caught my eye. It also needs more use of “often”, “generally”, “in many cases” or similar terms, but the drift is there:

Heterosexual cross-dressers bother almost everyone. Gay people regard them with disdain or affectionate incomprehension, something warmer than tolerance but not much. Transsexuals regard them as men "settling" for cross-dressing because they don't have the courage to act on their transsexual longing, or else as closeted and so homophobic that they prefer wearing a dress to facing their desire for another man. Other straight men tend to find them funny or sad, and some find them enraging.

I have experienced most of these. That’s what I meant by “we are getting it from both sides”.

So, until these many issues are worked out better, perhaps we can take Mr. Franklin’s advice that “we must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately”.

So, if I have misunderstood or offended you in any way, please enlighten me.

Peace and Love

[clarissa3d]

I just see this as adding more confussion to the already misconstruded.

There are opionions where it is just that. I see that link as not having enough fact behind it.

I have watched these forums and spoken with many TG type people to realize that yes there is a spectrum and each person falls some where on that spectrum.
Quoting the link "Heterosexual cross-dressers bother almost everyone." how would one know this unless they have taken a poll.

Another quote "The greatest difficulty people have with cross-dressers, I think, is that cross-dressers wear their fetish, and the gleam in their eyes, however muted by time or habit, the unmistakable presence of a lust being satisfied or a desire being fulfilled in that moment, in your presence, even by your presence, is unnerving."

In this statement "I think" is used to justify this statement. Not justified by a poll or fact gathering.

last tidbit
Quote "Gay people regard them with disdain or affectionate incomprehension, something warmer than tolerance but not much." After reading this "just my opion" this is just her opionion.

Rachel, realize that I am a very very open minded person and people have the right to speak there mind as long as they make it known that it is just that. There own mind and not the group conciseness of others speaking through them.

I do get offended when statements are made that are not proven. I work with several such people that feel they know what everyone else wants needs or should have.

She just "my opinion" is another one of those.

[Rachel Ann]

Clarissa

Thank you for clearing that up. I think that we agree lots more than we disagree.

I have to ask you to be patient with me. I have known for some time that I was CD but the idea that I am TG is very new to me and I am still trying to get comfortable with it.

Not to be whipping a dead horse, but . . .

I took "Heterosexual cross-dressers bother almost everyone" to mean not “almost every individual”, but “at least some individuals in almost every group”.

As far as "The greatest difficulty people have with cross-dressers, I think, . . .”, I didn’t like that at all either, and I think I said so in my first post. I hardly regard dressing as a fetish and while it excites me, that excitement is usually nonsexual. But that is just me. As LaurenAnne said, “The varied reasons and motivations for crossdressing are what I believe make it such an interesting topic.”

"Gay people regard them with disdain or . . .” really needs a “sometimes” in there. I have gotten that - hardly from most gay people, but from enough of them to be a pebble in my high-heeled shoe. (Interesting that she has nothing to say about lesbians.) Ditto for some TS folks who say that I am “in denial”.

I do get offended . . . [by] people that feel they know what everyone else wants needs or should have.

So do I, and my life is way too full of those.

I feel much better now!



Love

[clarissa3d]

First off, I love your avitar!

and yes I think you are right we do aggree on more than disagree.

I think back when gays and lesbians, and other minorities that have delt and are dealing with opression. So I guess it is our turn.

I have found in definition for my self after 3 years of a shrink and reading. I am classed as gender dysphoric.
Here is a link that discribes it
http://sonja.reference.directnic.com...rdysphoria.htm

But Rachel everything is good K.

Major hugs