This is why I find DADT so frustrating...(a GG perspective)

[Moxie]

Moderator Note: This was originally posted to the "This is why I find DADT so frustrating..." thread, but was diverting the thread from its original course. This diversion contained some interesting thoughts so the thread was split.

Wow, this is why I have avoided joining this forum despite my H's encouragement. Posts like this one make me cringe. Since when did CD become something us wives MUST be involved in? Is this YOUR hobby or ours? Please forgive my anger here, but I get so confused and, yes, resentful, when I hear men whinge about DADT as thought somehow we NEED to be a part of your CD lives.

Why??

I don't understand this and probably never will. This is a huge problem in my own marriage as I have NO desire to be involved in my H's dressing and yet he continually pressures me to do just that. Yet, he has zero problem when I'm not interested in watching a sport game he's watching. And yes, he's very passionate about sport!! So what gives? Can't you just do this without involving us? I don't like my H's dressing because, despite what he sees when looking in a mirror, I see my H in a dress and he looks sort of silly. Doesn't matter how well he's dressed or how good his makeup, he's still just my H looking silly. No offense to anyone here as this is not a comment about all of you, just my personal feelings. I understand it's an urge, a need, but from a GG perspective, it's a very strange one! So is this really how he wants me to see him? As silly and strange? Surely it's better then, that I don't, and that he indulges this need without completely destroying how I see him as a man. Because, believe me, once we get that image of you in full dress in our minds, we CANNOT get it out, and if we don't like what we saw (which is usually the case) we won't like how we see you from then on even when you're in male mode. Of this I am certain. So maybe it's time some of the men on here acknowledge that it's not always good for us to see this side of you, and if you can't tolerate DADT, then perhaps the control issue isn't just with the wife.

Anyway, sorry for stealing this thread but this is a pet peeve of mine, has been the entire five years I've known of my H's dressing, and given the responses on this thread I'm better off leaving and letting him spend all day out with other GG's who apparently make him feel good. Funny that, given THEY don't have to live with it. Believe me, were they living with this, they might see this as something other than a quaint quirk. And maybe, just maybe, these other GG's are just being polite. I know I would be amused and even curious if I had a CD client. But marrying him? I don't think so!

Just my two cents, for whatever the thoughts of a GG are worth here.

[ColleenA]

Doormat, I just want to make a few comments. I don't intend to try to convince you to let him have everything his way; rather, I just hope that a few things can be clarified for your benefit. (BTW, I notice this is your first post. Thank you for being willing to express your thoughts here. I hope you don't fear I or anyone else will attack you.)

Since when did CD become something us wives MUST be involved in? Is this YOUR hobby or ours? ... I have NO desire to be involved in my H's dressing and yet he continually pressures me to do just that.

DADT generally refers to zero acceptance of the dressing done by one's spouse - "keep it hidden," "don't let me see anything to do with it" - which sounds like your position. Understand, though, there are various levels beyond DADT.

One level is basic tolerance - acceptance that the spouse is going to dress as they like around the house. Another level is mild participation - this may include calling them by a femme name and otherwise referring to/interacting with them as a female. One intense level involves going out in public with "her," such as shopping outings. Another intense, but much different, level takes it into the bedroom - enough said about that. As is readily evident from various threads on this site, there are members in each of these situations.

Separately, is this something he would do, say, once a week? Or is it something that, given the chance, would last from the time he gets home from work until he leaves again the next morning?

Yet, he has zero problem when I'm not interested in watching a sport game he's watching. And yes, he's very passionate about sport!!

First, let's apply those levels I mentioned to sports. Do you accept that he is going to watch, say, a Yankees baseball game, and so find something else to do with your time? Do you learn enough about his favorite teams that you can respond some when he talks about them? Or do you take/fake enough interest to actually watch games, not throughout the season, but at least when the team goes to the playoffs?

Now, let me make a huge distinction between his interest in sports and his interest in cross-dressing. The first is something he can share with plenty of other people, be it family - his dad, his brothers, his sons - or friends or even co-workers he has little else in common with. He can find many outlets readily available for interaction and support of this interest.

But, I expect, he has no one to turn to regarding dressing up. So he looks to you, hoping not just for acceptance, maybe not even for simple support, but for the chance to share and interact with one other person. More importantly, if he's like me, he is looking for affirmation for this part of himself from someone he loves, something almost no one else can provide. And why not his spouse? After all, you're the person he gets intimate with in other ways. Why, he reasons, shouldn't he safely be able to share this most private part of himself with you?


You, however, have a problem with it. As you say:

I don't like my H's dressing because, despite what he sees when looking in a mirror, I see my H in a dress and he looks sort of silly. ... So is this really how he wants me to see him? As silly and strange? Surely it's better then, that I don't, and that he indulges this need without completely destroying how I see him as a man. Because, believe me, once we get that image of you in full dress in our minds, we CANNOT get it out ...

I get that this outer reality, which you must look at, in no way matches his internal self-image. But is that fundamentally any different from overweight women who wear tight clothes and see themselves as sexy? Or from men with dead-rat toupees on their heads?

He's not asking you to actually see him as a woman in reality, but to humor him in his fantasy. Trust me, if I ask my SO to play with my "boobs," I am not deluded into thinking that I actually boast D cups. But I temporarily ignore the reality for the sake of having fun via my imagination.

So, unless there is no way you are willing to accommodate his dressing at all, what you might consider is negotiating with him what limits you can tolerate. If so, include the distinct message that you are doing this for him, not for anything you want yourself. That then is a defense later against, having given him an inch, seeing him try to take a mile.

[Moxie]

Thank you, ColleenA, for responding to my questions/concerns. And yes, I do fear attack on here - hence my reason to lurk for many months; however I possibly don't care any more what anyone thinks of me or my opinions as I'm struggling too much in my marriage to care and if I get any advice from here that helps then the attacks were worth it.

Anyway, again, thanks. I've had these conversations time and again with my H and I now find them pointless. He has his position and I have mine and we are STUCK! But currently our agreed on boundaries haven't been breeched (once a week, not around the kids, not in public etc) but I know he wants to add me into this equation and I just can't do it. I'm already traumatized by discovering a photo of my H fully dressed on our computer. I can't explain how I felt as I feel I just hurt people here. But I felt...scared and a little sick. Not because he looked terrible or anything as he actually looks very good! But sick in that way when you feel something isn't quite right...when you think someone is lying or talking behind your back or just doing something generally wrong. I felt that when I saw his photo because I felt he was hiding behind this female outfit, and possibly I also wonder if he isn't schizophrenic!

Sorry again if I offend.

This general wrong feeling has been very hard to overcome. Even when I think "it's just clothes, who cares", or "he is just having fun, what's the harm" I know I don't believe myself. I want my H to be a whole and happy person, an authentic person. The funny, handsome, secure man I married. But I struggle to see this now. I now see a man who hides behind women's clothes and makeup and who seems terribly insecure and confused as to why he does this. And yes, he's done it all his life, yet still he can't tell me why. Why do grown men play dress up? And why is it so hard for you all to see how strange this is for a GG? We want to understand and support the man we love, but we want a whole and happy man, not a man living a double life. That's not an authentic life, at least in my book it's not.

Perhaps I'll never accept or understand and should take note from the comments here that happiness might come from being apart. I don't know. I just know I love my H with all my heart, but the CD makes him very hard to like.

Again, sorry if I have offended anyone and for stealing this thread. Today I am just very sad.

[Paula_56]

Wow, this is why I have avoided joining this forum despite my H's encouragement. Posts like this one make me cringe. Since when did CD become something us wives MUST be involved in? Is this YOUR hobby or ours? Please forgive my anger here, but I get so confused and, yes, resentful, when I hear men whinge about DADT as thought somehow we NEED to be a part of your CD lives.

Why??

I don't understand this and probably never will. This is a huge problem in my own marriage as I have NO desire to be involved in my H's dressing and yet he continually pressures me to do just that. Yet, he has zero problem when I'm not interested in watching a sport game he's watching. And yes, he's very passionate about sport!! So what gives? Can't you just do this without involving us? I don't like my H's dressing because, despite what he sees when looking in a mirror, I see my H in a dress and he looks sort of silly. Doesn't matter how well he's dressed or how good his makeup, he's still just my H looking silly. No offense to anyone here as this is not a comment about all of you, just my personal feelings. I understand it's an urge, a need, but from a GG perspective, it's a very strange one! So is this really how he wants me to see him? As silly and strange? Surely it's better then, that I don't, and that he indulges this need without completely destroying how I see him as a man. Because, believe me, once we get that image of you in full dress in our minds, we CANNOT get it out, and if we don't like what we saw (which is usually the case) we won't like how we see you from then on even when you're in male mode. Of this I am certain. So maybe it's time some of the men on here acknowledge that it's not always good for us to see this side of you, and if you can't tolerate DADT, then perhaps the control issue isn't just with the wife.

Anyway, sorry for stealing this thread but this is a pet peeve of mine, has been the entire five years I've known of my H's dressing, and given the responses on this thread I'm better off leaving and letting him spend all day out with other GG's who apparently make him feel good. Funny that, given THEY don't have to live with it. Believe me, were they living with this, they might see this as something other than a quaint quirk. And maybe, just maybe, these other GG's are just being polite. I know I would be amused and even curious if I had a CD client. But marrying him? I don't think so!

Just my two cents, for whatever the thoughts of a GG are worth here.

Someone just opened a window feel the fresh air, thanks for the other side of the story, not what we want to hear but I suspect it's pretty typical of most wives.

[TxKimberly]

I wouldn't have a problem with my wife not wanting anything to do with it, in fact that IS pretty much where my wife and I are at. The "problem" in the OP, is that the wife wasn't happy with just not being a part of it, but instead felt compelled to make Leslie feel like shit about it the night before - again something that I also see with my wife from time to time.

Wanting nothing to do with it is perhaps understandable and livable, but being mean and hurtful about Leslie going out is a bit more than that isn't it?

Doormat, as Paula said, your viewpoint IS wanted here, whether it is flattering to us or not, hurtful to us or not, it is an honest opinion from a woman who loves one of us.

[NicoleScott]

Agree, Kimberly. That, and no longer making any bones about going out as Leslie, the blame is shared for the breakdown of DADT, if it was ever DADT. Both Leslie's and Doormat's situations are sad, but let's not blame DADT because neither of those situations are DADT. DADT works for those that make it work.

[ColleenA]

Since when did CD become something us wives MUST be involved in? ... I don't understand this and probably never will... Anyway, sorry for stealing this thread but this is a pet peeve of mine ...

It sounds to me like you need to talk about this further, but of course this thread is not the place. One possibility is to create your own thread in this forum asking CDs why they do it; I would be happy to reply to you. Another is to join the FAB forum. From the intro there:

"F.A.B. members (Female at Birth) ... have a private forum that you may like to join, specifically for F.A.B. members only. ... There are rules regarding access, which do seem a little harsh, but please forgive us for that, it is just a precaution to make our F.A.B. Forum a safe haven."

I expect you would find there women encompassing a wide range of reactions toward their SOs' dressing, from acceptance through to absolute rejection, but at least you should at least have the opportunity to vent to and hear from others in the same position as you, as opposed to someone like me who can offer sympathy but simply cannot relate.

[NicoleScott]

It isn't stealing the thread. This is about pushing crossdressing activities beyond DADT and wondering what the problem is. That is the similarity between Leslie's situation and Doormat's.

[ColleenA]

In terms of looking at DADT versus any involvement of the SO, I agree with you, Nicole; comments here are quite appropriate. But in her second post, DoorMat (like Sara Jessica, I too have a hard time calling her that) mentions wondering why grown men play dress up. That is the discussion that I didn't want to see take over this thread.

[Wildaboutheels]

Why won't people just accept the fact that EVERY single one of us probably has something that we are completely inflexible about? If a SO won't accept something and has their feet firmly planted, trying to discuss that something with them or compromise or convince them to change their beliefs is likely only going to make things worse.

It doesn't matter how long you beat a dead horse. He is still never going to get up and all you are going to do is wear YOURself out.

[Pexetta]

Someone just opened a window feel the fresh air, thanks for the other side of the story

+1

That's why I love cd.com, there are few other places where opposite perspectives come together like this.

[ReineD]

I don't understand this and probably never will. This is a huge problem in my own marriage as I have NO desire to be involved in my H's dressing and yet he continually pressures me to do just that.

Hi DM, welcome to the forum! (I'm a GG too).

I'm so glad that you decided to join the site and participate in this thread. This is a great opportunity to see both sides of the fence at the same time. I also fully agree that we cannot compare a GG nail tech or SA who treats a CDer as a platonic friend (just like a friendship with another GG or a gay man), to a wife who has difficulty taking in the feminine part of her husband. Also, it's OK to share how you feel from your heart. Many of the members here will understand, because they have similar situations with their own wives and they just want to make things better, just like you do. You might, however, start your own thread about this, which would be a better place for the members to answer your questions about why they dress ... so as to not derail too much from Leslie's thread.

Anyway, I wanted to ask you, and this is very much in topic with Leslie's situation ... how exactly does your husband pressure you to be involved in the CDing? I have a feeling that you and your husband have two completely different understandings of what "to be involved" means and I suspect this is the situation between Leslie and her wife as well. So if you would answer this, I think I may be able to help.

[TxKimberly]

. . . I also fully agree that we cannot compare a GG nail tech or SA who treats a CDer as a platonic friend (just like a friendship with another GG or a gay man), to a wife . . .

I'm not sure if this is taking the thread too far off of topic or not, but this in itself is an interesting observation. It has been obvious to me for a while now that quite a few women, maybe even most women, are quite all right with the idea of one of us. Many might even find the idea fascinating. There is a catch though - it is interesting and perhaps admirable as long as it is SOME ONE ELSE'S HUSBAND! When it is YOUR husband, it is no longer cute or interesting! LOL

Also, and to get a bit more on topic, you really can't place a whole lot of stock on the fact that SA's and the like are kind, good natured, and friendly to us. After all, this is their job and they are paid specifically to treat people well. When a person approaches you in a social setting and spends time to have a conversation with you, this is friendship. A salesperson engaging you, spending time with you, and helping you to feel good about yourself is just someone doing a good job. Don't get me wrong, they might be sweet people and might even actually enjoy spending time with you, but when you boil it down, their core motivation is to do their job well.

[Moxie]

Anyway, I wanted to ask you, and this is very much in topic with Leslie's situation ... how exactly does your husband pressure you to be involved in the CDing? I have a feeling that you and your husband have two completely different understandings of what "to be involved" means and I suspect this is the situation between Leslie and her wife as well. So if you would answer this, I think I may be able to help.

Hi ReineD. Sorry I didn't reply immediately but I went away and had a think about this whole situation. And sorry for changing topic on this thread - I don't really want to discuss the WHYS of CD as I feel this is a question with no answer and a thousand answers. No point dwelling too much on this as I'll only turn myself inside out!

Back to DADT, the real problem I'm having is visualizing my otherwise masculine husband in women's attire as it makes my stomach turn despite my open mind, and my H pushing me to help him dress so we can then sit about chatting like friends. I also guess he wouldn't mind if intimate relations entered this equation as he is a CD motivated by both comfort and sex.

But what he doesn't seem to understand is I don't want to sit and chat with my husband like girlfriends. I have plenty of them already. What I don't have plenty of are husbands! The very idea that he thinks I would want to participate in such an activity causes me untold resentment. He also seems to think I would enjoy helping him transform into this alter ego, like I'm still some giggling teenage girl obsessing over make up and outfits. I'm a busy married career woman with two children and a mortgage. When I get three spare minutes in my day I can think of THREE HUNDRED other things I'd rather do than act like a teenage girl with my H.

And the sex thing? Yep, no point going there really. My H has this weird deluded theory that everyone loves femininity, even on men. He honestly can't imagine why I'm not turned on by boobs and lace and long hair and that if I'd just compromise and give this a try I might actually like it. I want to kill him during these conversations. He really has NO clue what it's like be a heterosexual woman. No clue.

So here we are, in some strange DADT situation where I'm actually quite content when I'm not involved with the CD as he's a great husband and father and before all this came to light five years ago, life was good. But DADT is apparently no longer working for him and with the way things are going, I can see our good life turning very, very sour. I don't want to compromise on who I am any further than I already am doing. Just being married to a man who dresses like a woman is beyond my personal and sexual comfort zone. Why can't he see I'm already compromising by just staying married to him? And why did he give his mother and father and brother the respect of not dressing around them when he lived at home (none of whom still have any clue my H is a CD) yet he can't give me this same respect?

Anyway, sorry this is so long. I'm sure there is more here that I've not mentioned or thought of, and I'm certain I've insulted everyone again, but I never imagined my life and marriage would turn in this direction and I'd give anything to have it turn back to the way it was.

And I fully intend on changing my name on here at some point, lol. Perhaps to FluffyBathMat? But right now DoorMat fits perfectly, as life sure is wiping its feet on me at the moment.

And sorry, one other thing: if everyone wouldn't mind referring to my H as a 'he' if they do respond to my endless questions, that would be very helpful. I know many of you prefer 'she', but I didn't marry a female and the very idea I would ever address my H as 'she' just pushes me further along the "I give up" line.

Thanks.

[giuseppina]

Hello Doormat

I'm wondering if a licensed but nonjudgemental marriage counsellor might help you and your DH get over your differences. A member of the clergy is probably not appropriate here.

What you describe is rather like what we call pink fog, that is, gone a bit off the deep end with crossdressing without considering what his partner thinks.

Unless he slows down drastically, I see you becoming more resentful of the crossdressing. It isn't helping now, and unless things change, things are going to get worse.

It would be good for your DH to have his own account here. It sounds to me he needs to be brought back to reality. If there is something underlying his dressing, that has to be worked out separately, and a counsellors assistance is likely the quickest way to get this in the open, if he will go.

[Marleena]

But what he doesn't seem to understand is I don't want to sit and chat with my husband like girlfriends. I have plenty of them already. What I don't have plenty of are husbands! The very idea that he thinks I would want to participate in such an activity causes me untold resentment. He also seems to think I would enjoy helping him transform into this alter ego, like I'm still some giggling teenage girl obsessing over make up and outfits. I'm a busy married career woman with two children and a mortgage. When I get three spare minutes in my day I can think of THREE HUNDRED other things I'd rather do than act like a teenage girl with my H.

And the sex thing? Yep, no point going there really. My H has this weird deluded theory that everyone loves femininity, even on men. He honestly can't imagine why I'm not turned on by boobs and lace and long hair and that if I'd just compromise and give this a try I might actually like it. I want to kill him during these conversations. He really has NO clue what it's like be a heterosexual woman. No clue.

So here we are, in some strange DADT situation where I'm actually quite content when I'm not involved with the CD as he's a great husband and father and before all this came to light five years ago, life was good. But DADT is apparently no longer working for him and with the way things are going, I can see our good life turning very, very sour. I don't want to compromise on who I am any further than I already am doing. Just being married to a man who dresses like a woman is beyond my personal and sexual comfort zone. Why can't he see I'm already compromising by just staying married to him? And why did he give his mother and father and brother the respect of not dressing around them when he lived at home (none of whom still have any clue my H is a CD) yet he can't give me this same respect?

Doormat it sounds like your husband needs a reality check based on what you're saying here. Only you can do that. Does he know how you really feel? I'm not being judgemental here btw as I know some SO's cannot deal with it, and I get it. It cannot and should not be forced on anybody.

[heatherdress]

DoorMat - Thanks for your honesty and candor. I can't help but feel your H has placed his needs beyond yours and your marriage. I hope you can convince him to get help.

[daphne_pynk]

Hi DoorMat, I can understand where your coming from. My wife and I had long conversations into the night about CD'ing and and what we have found for her it was more of a breach of trust then anything else for us. she married me with herself fully exposed and open to me while i hid this dark secret from her. She felt tricked and betrayed and that's why she resented my CD'ing at first.

once we built our marriage up again she also discussed a few other things that i didn't think of at all.

she's not a lesbian, she married a man, she's attracted to men and if she wanted a chick she would have got one. I can't force her to change what she likes and i haven't ever tried but its good to just say it. Also if i'm both the man and the woman in the relationship...what the hell is she doing here? she felt like she was either being pushed out of her roll in the marriage or into the male roll. We worked most it out but it took almost a year of talk.

Could it be that also CD'ing represents the feeling of a breach of trust in your marriage?

[Stephenie S]

Yeah. I second and third most of what's been said so far.

Doormat? Your hubby is mistreating you. You know it, I know it, he probably knows it too on a deeper level than he is working on right now. The only person who can call a halt to this is you. He is operating on a fantasy level and he needs a little grounding from you.

Now I don't mean to say that he is deliberately trying to sabotage your marriage. I'm sure he's not. But that is what is gonna happen if you can't bring him down to earth.

There's a LOT of fantasy in crossdressing and your guy is caught up in fantasy. If you don't want to participate in his crossdressing just tell him so. There is no law that says you have to. If you don't want to sit around and chat with him when he is dressed, then don't do it. Go out. Go to bed. Take a bath. He'll get the idea. If you don't want to go shopping with him, TELL him. Just don't do it. You don't want to help him with his makeup? Don't do it. There's no law that says you have to. There's no "Crossdressing Rule Book". I learned how to put on MY makeup. So did you. Let him learn how to put on his own darn makeup.

It sounds like you have a few rules. They are called boundaries on this forum. And any crossdresser who wants to stay married abides by them. Those few who continually try to "push" the boundaries are the ones who end up with a big lawyer fee and child support payments.

Look, not very many women ask for a crossdressing husband. It's not a pleasant discovery for most wives. But really, it's a pretty harmless hobby if it doesn't take over his life. That's what boundaries are for.

You say, "OK, I hate your crossdressing, but if you don't shove it in my face, I can live with it. Lets make some rules."

And then you sit down together and make some rules. It sounds like you are well on the way to doing that already. Good.

It also sounds like he is having trouble abiding by those rules. Not so good. Maybe there should be consequences. He's a grownup. Grownups can handle consequences.

I can't tell your hubby that he's acting like jerk. I'm not there. If I was I'd tell him. But you're there. The ball is kinda in your court.

Your marriage can survive crossdressing. But there needs to be a few rules. Suppose he wanted to take up rock climbing? That's a VERY dangerous sport. You could say NO. "No rock climbing for you buddy. Not if you want to stay married to me." Or, instead of forbidding it, you could lay down a few rules: Only with a guide. Only in July and August. Only $100 a month. Not until the kids are grown. Whatever. I dunno. A few rules. Do the same thing.

You can do it. Your marriage is probably worth it.

Stephenie

[ReineD]

And sorry, one other thing: if everyone wouldn't mind referring to my H as a 'he' if they do respond to my endless questions, that would be very helpful. I know many of you prefer 'she', but I didn't marry a female and the very idea I would ever address my H as 'she' just pushes me further along the "I give up" line.

Thanks for mentioning this. I'll keep it in mind. I refer to my own SO as "he" when he's in male mode, as "she" when in female mode, and sometimes as "s/he" which is how I've come to think of him. So if I let a "she" slip in, please put it down to an oversight on my part, and not an attempt to offend.



Just so you know, my SO dresses an average of twice weekly ... once on her own during the week to go out in the next town over at a Starbucks (with laptop and office work) and once on weekends when we go out, again in the next town over, for either an afternoon of doing Saturday afternoon stuff and dinner. Lately though, he's been averaging about once every two weeks because he's so busy at work. And he rarely feels the need to dress at home, although she did dress exclusively at home (the frequency would vary) for years before she learned how to go out and blend in everywhere. Oh, and my SO finds it is in his best interest to live according to society's rules, which is to keep his gender identity private from people at work, his elderly parents, my kids and my ex, and our more traditional-minded friends.

He also seems to think I would enjoy helping him transform into this alter ego, like I'm still some giggling teenage girl obsessing over make up and outfits.

My H has this weird deluded theory that everyone loves femininity, even on men. He honestly can't imagine why I'm not turned on by boobs and lace and long hair and that if I'd just compromise and give this a try I might actually like it. I want to kill him during these conversations. He really has NO clue what it's like be a heterosexual woman. No clue.

He's projecting what he wants onto you. And it does sound like Pink Fog, in that he has lost sight of age-appropriate reality. Women past their teenage years do not spend evenings having girly nights of makeup and nail polish. I mean I understand his enthusiasm since it is all relatively new to him (and likely he is still very much in the closet?), but he needs to recognize that the focus on girly fun is unique to him and other CDers who are in his shoes, namely the CDers who are allowing themselves for the first time in their lives to push past all the male taboos, the major one being "THOU SHALT NOT LOOK LIKE A GIRL NOR BEHAVE IN A GIRLY MANNER".

He does need to dress though, and if you are interested enough to learn why, you will gain a better understanding of this by posting specific questions here (over a period of time ... you don't have to do this all at once) to get a variety of answers. This is what I did, and the biggest difference it made in my life is that my SO and I have an absence of conflict over the CDing. Honestly we do, and I've got to tell you that it's more peaceful living this way than resenting a part of my SO that he cannot help being.

But, trust me, all of this takes time and also requires some major deconstruction on our parts about what we think we know about gender. As obvious as this is, I need to say that our SOs, even though they are not transsexual (they do not wish to become women), do not have the same type of gender identity as do men who do not CD.

my H pushing me to help him dress so we can then sit about chatting like friends. I also guess he wouldn't mind if intimate relations entered this equation as he is a CD motivated by both comfort and sex.

OK. The only part of the above quote that I can see from your husband's POV, is a desire to spend a few hours with you dressed, and this is because he wants you to accept his need to be feminine occasionally, which is an integral part of his psyche. It's not a hobby. I've got to say though, that the time spent does not need to be vacuous (doing things that teenage girls do). You can talk about current events, the kids, watch the same type of movie that you always watch together, share a meal and discuss your respective days, or any number of things that you do together when he's in guy mode. My SO is the same person in thoughts and in deed, whether s/he is dressed or not. And I do not see a different person, whether he is in guy mode or girl mode, even though I did in the beginning since seeing him dressed was such a departure from his male look.

As to the other parts of your quote, your husband would do well to realize that it is not a good idea to ask a wife who is turned off of the CDing to help him get dressed or put makeup on. Not a good idea at all. Also, he may wish to be sexual with you while dressed, but hopefully this is not something that he's pushing onto you. Above all else, partners need to respect each other's sexual boundaries. Not doing this spells major libido issues later on for the person who feels pushed.

I hope you will stick around DM. Not because I want to see you "convinced" that the CDing is the best thing since sliced bread, but because I believe that any wife who is married to a CDer will be happier if she at least begins to understand where it is coming from, which will help her dispel any stomach-knot-making notions of what she thinks it is all about.

[jaanine]

i wish i never read this post there is a marriage that aint gonna last just as mine didnt and its sad

[Lynn Marie]

Doormat, you're a gem. You've nailed the unhappy wife's side of DADT perfectly. It surely is not your obligation to embrace our "silly" hobby. It's bad enough that you even have to know it goes on when you're not around. I've already been through this. Like I said in the other thread, DADT doesn't work. There's just no way for the wife to get this ridiculous image of her man in a dress out of her mind whenever she sees him. Ridicule is the obvious reaction. I just don't see how we can expect anything less. On the extremely rare instance where the wife can actually embrace our silly hobby then the marriage has a chance. Otherwise it is just an exercise in toleration.

[Amanda_P]

What does DADT mean anyway. I've never heard it before

[noeleena]

Hi, D M,

Iv looked at this issue from another perspictive as im not a dresser or trans & how would i cope if i could with a mate that is a male. iv gone over a lot of issues,
I know i can accept others who dress as us or are trans & with a need , iv had to look at this from a womans view mine.

Okay i know there are quite a few women who dont have a issue with thier husbands dressing yet its more than ... just ... the dressing if it was only that then its about clothes not all the rest of what takes place, that then becomes the issue,

its the forms the hair =wigs makeup shoes, the voice & then the look. then takeing on the manisims like its a act impersinating us & trying to be us. .

We are wired differently we think differently & really .... WE ... just are different.

I still find it hard to understand men i dont relate to men never did & never will & when they dressup i think how strange now whats really going on

So could i live with a partner who is a dresser. the whole way of what we mean by a dresser, i would be struggleing i can tell you . when your in a close relasionship . i need to see the real person not an actor not some one who is trying to be someone who they are not.

as you know im a SCA, Renaissance member our men dress in dress's skirts & lovely gowns lovely colours & yes they look so nice , you know its just so lovely . these men are all out men stronger & bigger than i , yet there is no intent to be us or like us , its not an issue .we have over 70-80 men i know them all we are together for a week once a year with our women & some children its a neat time. so there is a difference in the clothes they are just being them selfs.

& when we come on our forums it all changes, our island people do dress in lovely colours & skirts .male's.yet they are not trying to be other than who they are they are normal men.

Of cause you may ask what am i in all of this , one of the funny things is i never dressed as we are talking about . though our men do wear Kilts thats not the same as the dresser's would say.

I have a close friend over in Austraila who i talk with a lot & yes spent time with & his Mum & she still calls him by his birth name .

& has dressed for quite a while & told me he was going for tranistion. so the name has changed to fem. So as a friend ill accept with out a problem . its the liveing with that i would find very hard, & that is as a normal woman .

...noeleena...

[Shadeauxmarie]

What does DADT mean anyway. I've never heard it before

Don't ask, don't tell.

I am ecstatic to have moved from total secrecy to DADT with the permission of my wife after she joined me in therapy. She thought therapy would cure me. Now, we're focusing on us.