This is why I find DADT so frustrating...(a GG perspective)

[Michelle V]

I believe you as supportive a wife as you are have every right to vent about your situation, your husband is a very lucky man for having a wife that allows him to express himself. I am aware of how ridiculous I feel, society has made it clear that if you are different then there is something very wrong with you and our lifestyle is a Huge NoNo. The fact that you allow your spouse to share his pastime with others is a great gesture. I believe he is torn between his role as yous partner and his need to be feminine, we are a selfish kind, and sometimes we seek approval from our spouses because deep inside we realize we are taking some very important principals of marriage with our dressing. Best of licks to you both and thank you for being involve.

[paulinescotlandcd]

Just me again, I was going to send you a wee light hearted message but it would appear that I can neither send you a private message or email, maybe another time. All the best.

[Moxie]

Just me again, I was going to send you a wee light hearted message but it would appear that I can neither send you a private message or email, maybe another time. All the best.

Apparently I'm hopeless at lurking, lol. I promise to give up posting after this! But all light hearted messages are appreciated during this trying time, only I have no clue why they are not allowed?

Though, the thought counts a lot. Thanks

[Presh GG]

Hi DM

I am also a married GG... It seems Reine has been the only other GG in this 5 page thread , but DM , there are sooo many of us here,everybody's just staying out of MTF right now. I know not why... Life, I guess?

Please ,Please just take a peek into FAB.. There are GGs there on the whole spectrum of understanding. Not just a gang of women trying to talk you into accepting or makeing you feel " odd one out " ..I PROMISE. We''ll listen and our storys are an "open book ".

Also, we talk about alot more than just CDing.

I hope we see you there.
Presh GG

[ReineD]

Apparently I'm hopeless at lurking, lol. I promise to give up posting after this! But all light hearted messages are appreciated during this trying time, only I have no clue why they are not allowed?

Yes, they're allowed!

You hadn't yet posted ten times when Pauline tried to send you a Private Message (PM), which is our in-house mailbox. Your PM capabilities were not yet activated. You've got 12 posts now, so you're good to go.

[sometimes_miss]

O.K, I simplified this quote, but for a reason, I have a simple answer

Since when did CD become something us wives MUST be involved in? Is this YOUR hobby or ours? Please forgive my anger here, but I get so confused and, yes, resentful, when I hear men whine about DADT as though somehow we NEED to be a part of your CD lives.

Heard this idea on a show called 'Becker' many years ago. Sometimes marriage means you have to do things you hate, with someone you love. Just because you love them. I don't like decorating the house, I don't like shopping, I don't like visiting all her cranky relatives, I don't like a lot of things. I didn't like that she cut her hair short and almost completely stopped wearing dresses and skirts 'because it's a pain', I didn't like that she stopped routinely shaving her legs after we got married,I didn't like that she was a lousy cook, I didn't like that she left sharp objects all over the house, I didn't like that she left the TV, radio and lights on when she left the house, I didn't like that she left the doors unlocked when she left the house and sometimes even the door wide open, I didn't like that she ruined my expensive tools, I didn't like that she erased my hard drive, I didn't like that she seemed to insist I keep the toilet ready for her use but seemed to think there was no purpose to the lid on the toilet, I didn't like that she left her shoes in the middle of the hall for us to trip on in the dark, yes, I didn't like a lot of things. But I put up with them because I loved her.
Ladies, if you're upset because you can't tolerate the concept that your man isn't the 100% macho man you think you need to get yourself hot, fine, but remember you're not perfect either; we have to love each other despite the imperfections. Remember, he STILL IS the man you married. Only how you decide to interpret who he is, has changed. How he feels about you has NOT changed, and that should be the most important thing you must remember.

[ReineD]

Hey, Sometimes_miss, don't hold back! I divorced my husband after a 30 year marriage, and I had nowhere near the long list of things that bugged me about him as you have. lol

Ladies, if you're upset because you can't tolerate the concept that your man isn't the 100% macho man you think you need to get yourself hot, fine, but remember you're not perfect either; we have to love each other despite the imperfections. Remember, he STILL IS the man you married. Only how you decide to interpret who he is, has changed. How he feels about you has NOT changed, and that should be the most important thing you must remember.

Coincidentally, I've just spent a considerable amount of time on this in another thread. It's not about wanting to be married to a macho man. It's about the difficulty involved with having to share our role as the woman in our relationships, when nothing in our lives prepared us for the possibility that one day we might need to. Even non-macho men who do not CD, have no desire to share the woman's role with their wives. And it's about more than learning to reinterpret who our husbands are. It's about reinterpreting who WE are in our relationships with men who wish to share our roles ... and changing our expectations of the relationship dynamics as the result.

Not saying it isn't doable, just that it isn't as simple as you make it out to be.

[MsJanessa]

Actually for many of us it's more than a "hobby"--the two descriptions which fit it best would be "lifestyle" and/or "compulsion"--that's why we want our wives, significant others, etc to share it with us and even enjoy it---obviously howver, there are many women who are put off by this and don't want anything to do with it, hence DADT---

[DonniDarkness]

Doormat,

Hi my name is Donni. Im a married crossdresser and i have a wife that supports me, but it was never an easy path to get where we are today with acceptance and understanding about each other. I have written a great deal about our experiences, anxieties, and fears on this forum. I wanted to add some things to this thread that i thought might help your perspective.

Reading your posts in this thread i hear a woman who really loves her husband and is IN LOVE with the Idea that she has the man of her dreams. Now, Crossdressing and Transgenderism has thrown a man sized monkey wrench into your perspective of your husband as a Masculine man.

As crossdressers most of us go thru phases of self acceptance, Denial, depression, anxiety, and euphoric daydreaming (pink fog). It sounds like your hubby is going thru self acceptance and struggling with anxieties about who he is as a Transgender Man.
Thats why all of a sudden he is seeking your Validation and Participation. He is trying to tell you that this is an important part of who he is and he craves and needs your acceptance because he is in love with you. Your important to him and without your participation even in conversation about Crossdressing and his Transgender needs, it just adds more anxiety to his dysphoria. He needs to be able to talk to you about this part of his life, even if you decide you want nothing to do with crossdressing. Your HIS Wife, he needs that soft hearted ear to listen and help him guide his path through the frustrating times and the good times. So even if you decide to never be a part of crossdressing, i humbly implore you to at least listen to him and continue to educate yourself on what it means to be Married to a Crossdresser, so that way you can help and support him emotionally and mentally throughout the rest of your lives together.

You keep repeating the phrase in different words "Ive lost my husband!?"

Have you really lost him? Does he live his life happily married to you and support you as a Husband should? Protector, Father to your children, Housedad/Help with income and finances.....(the list goes on and is different for every couple). If he does all these things and has made you so happy and made you fall in love with him just by being the man you always wanted to fall in love with...you need to ask yourself truly why your so upset about the idea that you have lost this man you love. Hes still there....the only thing that has changed is what you know about his self identity as a Crossdresser.

The clothes, makeup and wigs are all just objects that help the rest of the world perceive us as we perceive ourselves. Crossdressing is an illusion for the rest of the world that would normally see us as just another average joe. The illusion is a outlet for us and it is also a cause of internal turmoil throughout our interpersonal struggles.
At times we crave more than just the illusion...we need validation from the ones we love and respect. Thats the major reason your hubby would love to giggle like girls and put on make-up and play dress up with you. It not that hes trying to change your outlook on crossdressing, hes seeking to have some social interaction with someone he loves and respects.

Socially we go through some pretty awkward phases. As men we are told to deny all feelings, emotions and fears....because men are "supposed" to be hardened, emotionally shut off and never scared of anything.....But some of us are still all the things we should be perceived as....just some of have a really innate urge to rock a mini skirt....but id still WALK THROUGH FIRE to be there for my wife when she needs me. Why?...Because im madly in love with her.

From my side of things in this thread i dont think that you really want to leave him for being a crossdresser....you just need to be reminded that your man is still there for you when you need that knight in shining armor to sweep your worries away. If thats the case then tell him so. Communication is what all the successful CD relationships have, even if they are DADT.


If you or your husband have any specific questions feel free to PM me. Im here to try and help.

Tough and Fabulous,
-Donni-

[Michelle (Oz)]

Donni

That was a good and thoughtful post which captures my situation too. It may be helpful as I try to turn my wife's abhorrence of CDing around.

Thanks
Michelle

[Asche]

The clothes, makeup and wigs are all just objects that help the rest of the world perceive us as we perceive ourselves. Crossdressing is an illusion for the rest of the world that would normally see us as just another average joe.

For me, it is the "average joe" that is the illusion. I tried for decades to "pass" as a normal man, and IMHO didn't do a very good job at it. Finally, after a half-century of pretending, I started trying to "pass" as myself, whoever he is. It is when I dress that I show something of who I really am -- at least, to the extent that one can ever see who someone "really is" simply by looking at them.

At times we crave more than just the illusion...we need validation from the ones we love and respect.

Everyone needs that. Everyone needs a place where and people with whom they don't have to lie about who they are. The more you have to pretend to be somebody else, the less you are anybody at all, and the more you become a shell of a man. And the more you have to hide parts of your essential self (because society won't tolerate it), the more you need some place and some person where you don't have to hide.

[DonniDarkness]

For me, it is the "average joe" that is the illusion. I tried for decades to "pass" as a normal man, and IMHO didn't do a very good job at it. Finally, after a half-century of pretending, I started trying to "pass" as myself, whoever he is. It is when I dress that I show something of who I really am -- at least, to the extent that one can ever see who someone "really is" simply by looking at them.

I find that it is much easier to pass as a Unique Individual rather than trying to pass as a gender. Passing is subjective to your internal view of yourself, but this thread isnt about passing as man or woman, this thread is about couples who struggle with acceptance and understanding within their own personal relationships.

The more you have to pretend to be somebody else, the less you are anybody at all, and the more you become a shell of a man. And the more you have to hide parts of your essential self (because society won't tolerate it)

This statement bothers me. You hide because society wont accept you?...sounds familiar,i used to hide too. Then i went out. The more i went out, the more all these ingrained societal anxieties were left in the closet i stepped out of. Ive been out many times now and yet to have a "bad" experience. No one was waiting with pitchforks and torches.... And over the past couple of years i have quit letting fear rule my happiness as a Transgender Man. My quality of life is superior now compared to what it was after i gave fear back to the society that "wouldnt tolerate me"

Dont let Fear rule your life. Own who you are.

-Donni-

[Asche]

I find that it is much easier to pass as a Unique Individual rather than trying to pass as a gender. Passing is subjective to your internal view of yourself, but this thread isnt about passing as man or woman, this thread is about couples who struggle with acceptance and understanding within their own personal relationships.

"Average joe" isn't a gender, it's a role. It's a lot more than being visibly male. And "passing" is very much about other people's view of you if the goal is to avoid being ostracised and harassed. Some male people take to the "average joe" role easily, to the point that it is, for all intents and purposes, who they are. Others of us always find it foreign, and even if we're successful at it (I was not), we feel alienated from ourselves when we do it. And if we do it long enough, we don't know who we are any more.

And, yes, I think it is relevant to this thread because a component of the conflict is that H is not the "average joe" that W thought he was when she married him and that H probably thought he could be or at least "pass" as back when they were getting married.

The more you have to pretend to be somebody else, the less you are anybody at all, and the more you become a shell of a man. And the more you have to hide parts of your essential self (because society won't tolerate it)

This statement bothers me. You hide because society won't accept you? ..sounds familiar,i used to hide too. Then i went out. The more i went out, the more all these ingrained societal anxieties were left in the closet i stepped out of. Ive been out many times now and yet to have a "bad" experience. No one was waiting with pitchforks and torches.

And yours bothers me, too, because it seems simplistic.

You may be lucky enough to be able to not-hide in your way without negative consequences. Not everyone is so lucky. When I wrote "because society won't tolerate it," I actually had in mind what life was like for gay people when I was growing up (1950's and 1960's), when people I knew were essentially run out of town when people found out they were gay. (It still happens -- Google "anoka" and "homophobia".) And plenty of people here have reported concrete negative consequences if they become known as CDers.

I'm actually pretty lucky. In contrast to when and where I grew up, I'm in a part of the USA that is pretty tolerant of "eccentricities," and I'm living in a time when, in the Western World, at least, there is growing tolerance and even appreciation for people who are "different." So I can now wear skirts and dresses pretty much anywhere (except work) with no problems.

It is the people who can't trust that certain parts of who they are will be accepted who most need a place where they can show those parts of them to someone else and have them accepted and recognized.

Because we humans need to be seen in order to exist -- to refuse to see us is to erase us.

[DonniDarkness]

because it seems simplistic.

It is simplistic...Stop making excuses about why you cant be who you are. The world has no power over you unless, you give it away freely in the form of internalized phobias.

I think it is relevant to this thread because a component of the conflict is that H is not the "average joe" that W thought he was when she married him and that H probably thought he could be or at least "pass" as back when they were getting married.

You do understand that we as MtF Crossdressers will never pass as a woman in the eyes of our wives. They will always see through all of the illusion we put forth because they see us as their husbands. So this arguement is completely invalid from my perspective, but i feel that your arguing just to argue.

And my goal here was to help put some positive perspective in the life of a woman who is struggling to come to terms with her husband being TG, not to argue with you over how you quantify societies intolerance for Crossdressers.

Hang in there Mrs. DM, Some of out here are rooting for you two!

-Donni-

[Thera Home]

No. The choice of presentation/adornment, for everyone, is very much a desire to reflect one's socio-economic status and values, whether a person likes to portray him/herself as an academic type, a bohemian type, an athletic type, a relaxed shabby/chic type, a successful business person, etc.

And here I thought that my ragged out shorts, my tshirt with the skull and crossbones, and boots with holes in them may me look cool?
Oh well..............Im comfy

So yes, little peace here I'm afraid as my head is thinking about everything. But thanks to everyone who responded here. I know I come across as abrupt and cold but really, if you met me you'd see I'm actually a very warm, fun, and yes ATTRACTIVE girl

Mattie(can I call you that instead?)
You know how we guys are. We're all wierd and lame. But, thing is were still the same person you met and married. We just decided to all a little most stress on your life w/o really wanting too...(Duh). We as a team,husband and wife need to help each other out(dealing with one's crap)whenever we can and pull each other through. Your feelings are normal for the situation your in. My wife is still wigging out and sometimes I have to put her on my ignore list if not I'll go insane. BTW,I still deal with her crap also.

This is what I get out of this, feel free to correct me. H is a crossdresser, like most of us he doesn't want to be but was born this way. He is not going to quit.

Yes,I think there must be something in the kool aid they sell nowadays

Also, we talk about alot more than just CDing.

I hope we see you there.
Presh GG

You're right, these CDers are boring
Can I join FAB too?
I promise I'll be nice


Thera

[Jane P]

I just wanted to say how much I appreciate this thread. I don't feel I have anything too terribly useful to add to the conversation ,but have found many of the well articulated views extremely thought provoking.

I am married ,in a DADT relationship ,and I try very hard to keep my not so unique desires to myself. Because we don't talk about it , I am constantly living with this "secret" all by myself , as is my wife . Nothing gets resolved ,nothing gets understood other than it happens.

I don't understand it , but continue to try to . I don't completely accept myself or my feminine desires , but am again trying to . None of it is easy but it's nice to see we are not always alone.

Jonnie

[Cam]

Doormat,
I was wondering if things would be different for you if your situation was the way it is for my wife and I? I do not not try to pass as female, in fact with my bald head and beard I would be a very ugly female. I started out with kilts. A very male garment to be sure. That transitioned into mini skirts when I would get ladies constantly commenting about how jealous they were of my legs. By the way I spent 20 years as a professional ballet dancer and teacher to explain the legs. I started wearing anties because they fit me better than the thick men's briefs, again because of my build from dancing. I don't have or want any dresses or high heals and don't use makeup. I just prefer women's clothing on the bottom half because it fits me better.

If your husband did this the way I do, would it still cause you problems? There is no judgement in my heart here, I'm just curious. Three of my four children don't care about my skirts and my marine son has even gone out to throw darts with me when I ave had a skirt on. My wife is fine with it but won't go out of the yard with me if I am in a skirt while my oldest son doesn't care what I do in my home but prefers that I dress in more "manly" clothing when he and his children are around...yes I do honor his wishes out of respect for him.