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Thread: The Drag Queen Dilemma...

  1. #26
    Silver Member I Am Paula's Avatar
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    Personally, I love drag queens. I know a few, and most of them never wear women's clothing offstage. Drag is an art form, and just plain entertainment. Saying a drag queen is bad for transgender rights is like saying a Rubens painting is bad for plump girls, or a western movie is bad for cowboys. You can group drag queens with say...James Bond, or Bruce Springstien. You shouldn't group them with militant transexuals, or trans rights lobbyists.

  2. #27
    Silver Member Tina B.'s Avatar
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    Drag queens are bad for our image, just like gays are bad for the image of straights! Apples and oranges!
    Drag queen, gay Crossdresser, or straight Crossdresser, ain't my business, you wear your dress your way, and I'll wear mine my way.
    Most people don't spend that much time thinking about Crossdressers, or drag queens, it's not part of their world.
    Don't rob banks, rape, or beat people up, and someday they may not see us as being all that different, I don't care why you wear a dress, if you wear one, your crossdressing, just like the rest of us. There must be something in side a Drag Queen that makes her want to don a dress even for work, after all many gays find a lot of other ways to make a good living, why choice that way unless it means something to you.
    I've never known one personally, But I have talked with a few female impersonators, and I didn't see them all that different from armature's.
    Tina B.
    Magic is the art of changing consciousness at will.

  3. #28
    In transmission whowhatwhen's Avatar
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    Another thing to keep in mind:

    Would you stop crossdressing because some women find it to be demeaning?

  4. #29
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whowhatwhen View Post
    Yes, but why entertain them?
    If they're so shallow as to form a concrete opinion of an entire group based on drag shows and you have difficulty educating them otherwise then why bother?
    Because they don't know enough to know any better. Most people do not know any CDs/TGs/TSs.

    And I'm not suggesting that DQs should stop being DQs, just offering an explanation as to why they help to reinforce the notion that all CDers must be gay, simply because they are the most visible segment of the gay/trans community. People normally associate DQs with gay pride parades.

    The antidote is to have more comprehensive gender and sexual education in schools.
    Reine

  5. #30
    Silver Member Angela Campbell's Avatar
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    I kind of think drag queens are to us kind of like what Lady Gaga is to GG's. A bit of an overdone exageration for entertainment purposes.

  6. #31
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    I'm fairly neutral on drag queens. Do they make me look bad? I do a better job of that than they ever could.

    Do they help "our cause"? I don't really think so. The general public may misunderstand us transpeople, but I don't think we should blame drag queens for that. Even if there weren't any of them, the general public would still find ways to misunderstand us. A lot of people aren't too keen on informing themselves on this and that.

    Annabelle

  7. #32
    Just a touch of class Lynn Marie's Avatar
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    [SIZE="4"]I know and like a number of Drag Queens. They see themselves as performers and often dress way over the top as part of the show. Hey, a lot of CDer's dress way over the top in a ****ty sort of way too! I'm really not all that overjoyed with either group as my style is more classy and understated, with just a hint of bling for color!

    I do wish DQ's would actually do their own singing and entertaining rather than just lip-syncing and dancing. Then I might be more liable to watch and be entertained. That said, I have seen a few DQ's who dress wonderfully and can put a fashion model to shame with their ability in heels. Just a few though.
    [/SIZE]

  8. #33
    Adventuress Kate Simmons's Avatar
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    DQ's and DK's don't have a stake in the TG/TS community. They look at what they do as a form of art expression and it is really. This is where true tolerance comes in and why we enjoy our rights and freedoms.
    Second star to the right and straight on till morning

  9. #34
    Aspiring Member Michelle V's Avatar
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    Hell NO,
    They are not bad for anyone exploring their inner femininity male or female. Yes they are loud an flamboyan they are very much out there but that is their job, they are entertainers but that is secondary to their need to express thier femenine side, I for one am happy that there are people in the public eye that have the cojones to go out and represent our community, whether TS, TG, or just CD they are showing their humanity by presenting themselves as males and as females. I don't know how many follow the shows, I was skeptical at first the men in me disliked how flamboyan and exagerated they are, but then I got to know the different personalities of the contestants and found them to be very normal and appealing, they talk about their struggles and their personal lives and somehow people can understand where they come from and kind of relate to their struggle. I had my wife watch the shows, first Drag U, and then Drag Race, and now it is our favorite shows. I feel like it shows those outside our community how normal we really are, we are not freaks or perverts we just enjoy being men with a very strong femenine side that needs to come out from time to time.

    I say we support those who represent our community in a positive light, unlike those who appear on trashy talk shows like Jerry Springer. In my household RuPaul and LOGO have our full support, any network or forum like this who give us a voice and a place to be ourselves deserves our patronage and support.

  10. #35
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    I think to improve public perception people need to see serious people...not a bunch of kids playing with "exaggerated" makeup.I can't see how anyone can benefit from the program,unless they are a DQ themselves .I'm sorry but I found it incredibly boring.
    Last edited by Celeste; 10-11-2012 at 10:03 PM.

  11. #36
    Aspiring Member Violetgray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celeste View Post
    I think to improve public perception people need to see serious people...not a bunch of kids playing with "exaggerated" makeup.I can't see how anyone can benefit from the program,unless they are a DQ themselves .I'm sorry but I found it incredibly boring.
    Simple, it's easier to hate a concept. When you see that concept (drag queen) talk, eat, sleep, share their goals and desires it humanizes them, and they become less of an archetype and more of a human being.

  12. #37
    Sapphic GeminaRenee's Avatar
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    Well, I suppose it's only natural that the general population is going to form its opinion of us based on what they see. To form ideas about trans-folk based on the image that DQs present is of course going to be misleading. But unless we somehow represent ourselves to the outside world for what we are, can we really blame them for the misunderstanding? Of course, since a great many of us aren't seeking attention, that could be a difficult proposition. Still, we need some kind of representation. Otherwise we run the risk of continuing the be judged like the crusty-creepy old hermit-y guy in Home Alone - we might be great at heart, but no-one would know it because people rarely have any exposure to or interaction with us. Instead, they see Ru-Paul and make judgements based on that. Hard to blame someone when that's all they know, I guess.
    "She ain't waiting 'til she gets older, her feet are makin' tracks in the winter snow.
    She got a rainbow that touches her shoulder, she be headed where the thunder rolls."

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  13. #38
    Silver Member kellycan27's Avatar
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    I don't have an issue with RuPaul's drag queens, But on more than a few ocassions I have cringed at some some of the antics I have seen demonstrated at some of the Pride Parades.
    "one day I'll fly away..... leave all this to yesterday"

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  14. #39
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    Looking at the bigger picture, it's not like we have numbers to spare. We ALL need to be inside the tent: lesbians, gays, bisexuals, transgender, et al. There is strength in unity. It would serve no purpose to separate ourselves from one another and run the risk of something like: "I'm OK with those gays; it's those f+++in' bisexuals you have to watch out for.".

  15. #40
    Fearlessly Independent RebeccaLynne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megan_Renee View Post
    The TG folks on Reddit (mostly TS, but still TG), do not seem to like drag queens as a general rule. There is some belief that drag queens are bad for transgender rights, almost as if queens are mocking us. I don't get this vibe at all from Drag Race, rather they talk a lot about LGTB-Q issues, sometimes bringing family into the story.

    I feel like men dressing as women will spark controversy and bring about awareness to gender variance regardless of the motivation for doing so. The same is true of FTM individuals (of whom there are many on Reddit).

    What do you all think? Are queens and kings bad for awareness and rights of the transgendered community?
    My thoughts are... I really enjoy Ru Paul's Drag Race, and appreciate the effort the contestants put into presenting as someone other than their birth gender.

    Isn't that our intention, as crossdressers? Whether we present in public, or enjoy that presentation privately, we're making a statement. We refuse to be restricted or restrained.

    I applaud everyone willing to breach the gender boundaries, whatever their motivation.

  16. #41
    Close mind people are the only one who is damaging us.
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  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by whowhatwhen View Post
    Another thing to keep in mind:

    Would you stop crossdressing because some women find it to be demeaning?
    Is no answer an answer of "No"?

  18. #43
    Gold Member Samantha B L's Avatar
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    I identify as a drag queen and a transvestite. I have dozens of freinds who are drag queens and transvestites. I do think in recent years many people are getting the message that crossdressers are often not gay. I have a whole slew of crossdresser freinds and they are wonderful. But as far as drag queens being demeaning to transgender and LGBT culture. Drag queens and transvestites are among the first to really get in there and punch back,so to speak,when people who want to bash transgender people or throw rotten tomatoes,rocks and glass bottles at us! There is an article with pics about me in the July/August issue of the UK magazine Frock. OK,so drag queens are sarcastic and their humor is suggestive. So is everybody else! On the whole the world ain't a bad place,but it is very chaotic and you may as well put the instruction booklet back in the drawer.
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    Last edited by Samantha B L; 10-12-2012 at 10:06 AM.

  19. #44
    ...don't encourage me Josie M's Avatar
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    I guess I have concerns (as others have echo'd here) that some will equate Drag with being TG. That's not the fault the drag performers though. Drag is just an art form, the solution, as Reine said, is eduation. That being said, and because it is performance art, I kind of wish references like the Gender Book did not include Drag as part of the TG umbrella as I think it adds to the confusion.
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  20. #45
    Gender adventurer JamieG's Avatar
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    I believe that two of Ru's former contestants have come out as TS since the show, so I'm not sure how you can accuse them all of being anti-TG.

    Although drag queens have a reputation for being huge divas, I recently attended a drag show hosted by Latrice Royale at a Pride event. There were a lot of children in the audience, and it was so sweet the way the queens reacted when the children brought them tips. They would give the children hugs and high five, and act so humble. Honestly, I misted up a little bit just watching it.

  21. #46
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    Back in the day (in the 70's and early 80's), we would have been having a different discussion about Drag Queens. Back then, they were the public image of gay men (cf.: La Cage Aux Folles.) Back then, it was the gay men who were complaining about how Drag Queens gave gay men a bad name.

    What it took to change the public's equation of "gay man" with "drag queen" (and pedophile ) was gay men -- lots of gay men -- "coming out" and showing the world, especially the people who knew them personally, that they weren't all that different from straight men. (Unfortunately it took the AIDS epidemic to convince a critical mass of gay men to do so, at least in the USA.)

    The lesson is obvious, as is the dilemma that faces closeted (and even un-closeted) CDs: only through the personal sacrifice of lots of people will things be changed, but no decent person can demand that sacrifice from another. I have no answer for this.

  22. #47
    Happy New Year! Renee_B's Avatar
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    Honestly if not for Drag Queens I wouldn't have know how to express the feelings inside me. I believe the knowledge and awareness are power.. they gave me that

  23. #48
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    this site is a community of people seemingly longing for acceptance, it would be shamefull if there was people on here happy to criticise another community without realising the irony of that.

  24. #49
    Member Sophie_C's Avatar
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    Yeah, I think they're pretty terrible. Their look is a PARODY of what women look like, with that terrible, whited-out makeup not matching their skin tone, lip syncing and pagentry that was from the 50s, it basically MOCKS what we are like. It's especially bad for those who are transgendered, way more than just crossdressers, since it confuses the public about the whole lot, and just makes them think it's simply a "gay" thing. Thank God more girls are transitioning young so the public is finally getting the distinction, but I'd rather the whole drag queen thing fade into oblivion. Besides, most gays these days aren't a fan of it themselves, and only go to it out of obligation.

  25. #50
    In transmission whowhatwhen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sophie_C View Post
    Yeah, I think they're pretty terrible. Their look is a PARODY of what women look like, with that terrible, whited-out makeup not matching their skin tone, lip syncing and pagentry that was from the 50s, it basically MOCKS what we are like. It's especially bad for those who are transgendered, way more than just crossdressers, since it confuses the public about the whole lot, and just makes them think it's simply a "gay" thing. Thank God more girls are transitioning young so the public is finally getting the distinction, but I'd rather the whole drag queen thing fade into oblivion. Besides, most gays these days aren't a fan of it themselves, and only go to it out of obligation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Claire_tv_uk View Post
    this site is a community of people seemingly longing for acceptance, it would be shamefull if there was people on here happy to criticise another community without realising the irony of that.
    Acceptance only counts if it's for what you're doing.

    That's okay though, because the drag queens will continue to go out, perform, and have fun while not caring what anyone thinks of them.
    They have balls, and for that I admire and respect them.

    But please, everyone, tell me when you're going to stop crossdressing out of respect to all of those GGs who think it's disrespectful and a parody of women.
    Last edited by whowhatwhen; 10-16-2012 at 11:46 AM.

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