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Thread: "Didn't sign up for this"

  1. #1
    Member VS Fan's Avatar
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    "Didn't sign up for this"

    Didn't want to hijack another thread for this tangent, but I've seen the argument on here plenty of times that our wives have a right to not accept CD'ing because they "didn't sign up for it" when we were married. (This thread is somewhat specific to CD'ing and not those who want to transition, since that's a different direction and usually a different conversation with the wife...)

    Other things spouses don't sign up for:

    - cancer or other diseases that require lots of care
    - wounded in combat / accidental loss of limb that requires care / compassion
    - going bald (certainly less serious than the first two and more superficial)
    - gaining lots of weight (ditto to #3)
    - losing a long time career / job and can't get back into same field

    I'm sure there are others (leaving "cheating" off the list, since that's a *direct* breaking of the vows by one party)... but the point is that wedding vows include "for better and for worse, for richer and for poorer, in sickness and health ...."

    Ultimately it all comes down to the ability to cope and the depth of the love felt between the two people. Love can overcome most things if it's strong enough... so I'm not sure "I didn't sign up for this" is *technically* a valid excuse. I think it's certainly an HONEST reaction, but there are many other factors at play in a relationship.

    Curious what others think about this. At the end of the day it's all semantics because as human beings, we can keep vows, break vows, stay with spouses, leave spouses, as we have free will to do as we choose...

    VS Fan

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    Adventuress Kate Simmons's Avatar
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    This is more or less true but none of the things you pointed out are the potential "deal breaker." They do not threaten the spouse's femininity. This is what happened my wife. She felt she could not compete with my femme self, so eventually left me. There are many things to consider and it basically depends on both the partners in a relationship.
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    Said this before........... A crossdresser knows he's a crossdresser before he gets married. It's unfair on the wife to be if he doesn't tell her. She should have the chance to either accept it or not before throwing herself into a marriage where she won't be the only one wearing skirts.

  4. #4
    In fact the list is a real deal breaker. You can add also having a baby.

    But it's true that in our current society, if someone tells you that a couple got divorced cause the man or woman didn't want to deal with his partner having cancer or taking care of their children, sounds like a monster. BUT if you tell them that she leave him because his crossdressing, it's ok.

    strange at least.
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    Member cdsara's Avatar
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    this is what was said to me last night. shes feels like I am cheating on her. that this is something that makes me feel good but not with her. so now she wants me to get rid of sara completely or else. its going to be a rough few weeks or months, back to therapy i guess and see if it helps.

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    Bouncy and Spunky discreet_mga's Avatar
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    In my case I never had any interest or involvement with crossdressing until after I was married. My crossdressing is something my wife does not know about and I do feel confident, from general conversations, that it is not something she would accept. This might be a little unusual for crossdressers. While I feel I have always had a more feminine side there was never any thought about expressing it until I was already married and older. I have been married for 16 years but never considered crossdressing until about 9 years ago. However, I did not really start fully dressing and getting out until a little under 2 years ago. In any case I did not have that information available to present to my wife before we got married. Delicate situation.
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    I would think that a lot depends on "when" one knows about some of the issues you have noted. What gets a lot of CD's in deep trouble with their SO is that they knew about their issues with CDing, but failed to tell them in a timely manner.

    Since you used Cancer as an example, allow me to illustrate my point... I would say that the vast majority of people would stand by their mates if they received a diagnosis of cancer. If however, it was revealed that the person knew they had Cancer, and failed to tell their Spouse to be; few would be sympathetic.

    I guess what I’m trying to say (poorly) is that in most cases the “what” of the lie isn’t as “ when” it was revealed

    Danielle
    Last edited by Eryn; 10-14-2012 at 04:57 PM. Reason: Edited profanity.

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    Silver Member Jonianne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VS Fan View Post
    ......but I've seen the argument on here plenty of times that our wives have a right to not accept CD'ing because they "didn't sign up for it".......
    From what you are saying, it sounds like you don't believe SO's have a right to not accept CD'ing. I think that is the wrong foot to start off on when trying to work out a relationship. I think the best way to work it out is to, first of all, admit that they do have a right to not accept it. And then go from there. CD'ers also have a right to be happy in their lives. So starting with accepting both of those premisis, then you can work on finding a solution that meets the needs of the CD'er as well as respects the boundries of the SO.

    Respecting each others rights is the key, but, just know that not all relationships are going to be able to be worked out, no matter how hard you try. Not everything is resolvable. Sometimes you can hang together with unresolvable issues, sometimes you can't.
    Joni

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    Silver Member Babeba's Avatar
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    Having cancer, gaining weight, losing a job or a limb... These are not things you know about in advance. For the most part, crossdressing is. They are completely different things.

    The issue for most GGs (not all) is the feelings of being lied to, betrayed and duped by their spouses. I mean, this is your best friend who knows everything about you and vice versa. Now all of a sudden there is this whole femme side you knew nothing about? Were you not livable enough to tell? Do you really respect me if you could hide this? How could you have me share everything with you and keep this from me? Do I even know the real you?

    Let's say the GG partner had had a nose job, and maybe a few other cosmetic surgeries on her face. Maybe it was to correct some facial difference she had as a kid. What if she hid that and never told, because it was in the past? Would you feel okay with that? Looking at her nose every day and not knowing it was hers? What if it was a huge bulbous honker? That ran in the family? And you only found out when your newborn baby had a big nose and someone was all like, 'ooh, Mrs. GG, she's going to have a honker like yours was! Better start saving for that surgery!' Would you feel like you had openly shared your lives and values then? What if you had even had conversations where she asked you how you felt about plastic surgery and you had been against it?

  10. #10
    Aspiring Member MsRenee's Avatar
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    Always thought in the vows it was for better or worse sickness an health. For me I didnt become a cd until my mid 30s. At that time id been married for a few yrs. when she found out all heck broke loose. For some they do become acceptance of our second self an envelope it. Me mine enjoys it as most of her g/fs give her b/s . So we just do our thing and enjoy life as we see fit.
    Renee

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    I think the key point you missed is that we crossdressers who come out after a marriage is consummated, have effectively lied about a part of us to our wife! None of your scenarios cover the lying part.

    Would it be ok for a wife to say she didn't sign up for this, if her husband was a criminal and she didn't know? I'd bet you'd make that allowance. Of course crossdressing is not criminal but it is the lying that bothers women more than anything else about crossdressing. They had no chance to make their decision and are now held by vows.
    Last edited by Jenniferathome; 10-14-2012 at 10:13 AM.

  12. #12
    Girl from the Eagles Nest reb.femme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by discreet_mga View Post
    In my case I never had any interest or involvement with crossdressing until after I was married. My crossdressing is something my wife does not know about and I do feel confident, from general conversations, that it is not something she would accept. This might be a little unusual for crossdressers. While I feel I have always had a more feminine side there was never any thought about expressing it until I was already married and older. I have been married for 16 years but never considered crossdressing until about 9 years ago. However, I did not really start fully dressing and getting out until a little under 2 years ago. In any case I did not have that information available to present to my wife before we got married. Delicate situation.
    Very similar situation to me. I'd had a penchant for femme things early on and it seemed to develop over the years. Married early in life too, how do you tell your wife now, that you are not the person you thought you were? Major dilemma.

    I agree with the being honest with your wife/SO argument but this will always be a decision for the individual and not for anyone else I'm afraid. I don't care for anyone else's moral stance and it's as simple as that. Happy to hear their thoughts and will happily introduce them into my own deliberations if I consider them worthy. My wife was and is hurt that I couldn't tell/trust her, so very aware of the problems here, but that's for me to bear and live with. I should add that I'm out to my wife and she is supportive.

    Not meant to sound combative here, I just like to deal in the black and white of a somewhat grey area........if that makes any sense in English!
    Last edited by reb.femme; 10-14-2012 at 10:35 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babeba View Post
    Having cancer, gaining weight, losing a job or a limb... These are not things you know about in advance. For the most part, crossdressing is. They are completely different things.

    The issue for most GGs (not all) is the feelings of being lied to, betrayed and duped by their spouses. I mean, this is your best friend who knows everything about you and vice versa. Now all of a sudden there is this whole femme side you knew nothing about? Were you not livable enough to tell? Do you really respect me if you could hide this? How could you have me share everything with you and keep this from me? Do I even know the real you?

    Let's say the GG partner had had a nose job, and maybe a few other cosmetic surgeries on her face. Maybe it was to correct some facial difference she had as a kid. What if she hid that and never told, because it was in the past? Would you feel okay with that? Looking at her nose every day and not knowing it was hers? What if it was a huge bulbous honker? That ran in the family? And you only found out when your newborn baby had a big nose and someone was all like, 'ooh, Mrs. GG, she's going to have a honker like yours was! Better start saving for that surgery!' Would you feel like you had openly shared your lives and values then? What if you had even had conversations where she asked you how you felt about plastic surgery and you had been against it?
    I told my SO that I was a CD right off the bat in our relationship. The big problem came later on when I wanted to go all the way and step out of the house. However prior to that when I was young I thought if I met the right girl that I could always put the CD monster away. I think a lot of us think that way and thats what causes trouble down the road.
    If it wasn't such a big taboo problem to CD then most of us would be honest and tell their partners right up front and then the GG could then make her decisions whether to stay or go. If she goes her own way then its a CD's biggest nightmare that she will publicly announce that her X was a crossdresser. If it was that easy I would have told every girl I seriously dated after the age of 18.
    I think for a woman to talk about a plastic surgery nose job she had when she was young before getting into a serious relationship would be a heck of a lot easier to discuss than this CD stuff.

    You have more experience talking with other women that are going through hard times with their CD partners than I do but honestly I could hear a women say in a group of people ya I broke up from my serious relationship because I found out my boyfriend was a CD and many people would say, "oh how awful, I don't blame you."
    If a guy said in a room full of people ya, "I broke up with her cause she had a big nose, then had surgery on it and I don't want my kids to have one." Everybody would think he was an arsehole.

    I was out to a show a while ago with some people I met at work. We all started talking and we found out that this couple we were with did not have any kids. I was surprised for some reason. Not sure why, maybe because they look like the were suited to have kids. Anyway the wife of my friend said we decided not to have kids because there is a lot of mental illness in my family. Thats a hard thing to say but I think it would be harder to say, "we didn't have kids because my husband is a CD and it might be hereditary."

    I'm not condoning lying to your partner" I just think its easier to discuss health issues with your partner ahead of time than it is to discuss the CD issues.

  14. #14
    Gold Member Marleena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babeba View Post
    Having cancer, gaining weight, losing a job or a limb... These are not things you know about in advance. For the most part, crossdressing is. They are completely different things.

    The issue for most GGs (not all) is the feelings of being lied to, betrayed and duped by their spouses. I mean, this is your best friend who knows everything about you and vice versa. Now all of a sudden there is this whole femme side you knew nothing about? Were you not livable enough to tell? Do you really respect me if you could hide this? How could you have me share everything with you and keep this from me? Do I even know the real you?
    Even though in some cases the CDer thought it would go away or didn't realize it until they were married the above is common.

    Some women would not or could not accept this side of their SO even if they knew in advance. It's just the way it is based on their upbringing, religion or values. I think most women go into marriage based on traditional values and can't be forced to accept the Cding. Sad but true and to be expected.

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    Miss Conception Karren H's Avatar
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    Obviously the "for better and for worse" clause doesn't cover undisclosed pr-existing conditions....
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    Silver Member I Am Paula's Avatar
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    This thread hits home big time. My wife is in a wheel chair, with muscular distrophy, and later, breast cancer. She knew about Celeste from very early on, when she was healthier. She was mildly supporting, but would not let me go out, and some really girly things pissed her off. As her desease progressed, to the point she needed constant care, she became overwhelmingly accepting, giving me free reign. We do everthing together, me en femme. So... I've often wondered, is this acceptance free will, or the trade off for her constant care? On the most possitive note, even if it's the trade off, it benefits both of us, and if she truly understands my need to be Celeste, it benefits both of us. I love my wife, will care for her 'till the day she dies, and we live in a win win situation.- Celeste

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    "Love conquers all".

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    Gold Member Marleena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karren Hutton View Post
    Obviously the "for better and for worse" clause doesn't cover undisclosed pr-existing conditions....
    I should add that while you are in a DADT relationship it's the best you know can expect. There are some wonderful people on this board (like yourself) that just happen to be CDers. In some cases it can be worked out between the couple and some level of acceptance found. There are many examples of that on this board. So it's not totally hopeless for a CDer.

  19. #19
    Silver Member Babeba's Avatar
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    Probably in those cases the CDing did go away for some time. That is not, so I hear, uncommon.

    I think for a lot of the cross dressers on this board who are older, have been married since before the Internet, didn't know anyone else like this, who were so filled with fear and shame and are just now realizing that cross dressing is okay - that if they know this realization would destroy their wives of decades and also know they can keep this so tightly under wraps that she actually will never know, even after death - yeah, the right thing is to not tell.

    For those cross dressers getting into relationships now - I think your best bet is to tell when you feel you can intimately trust that partner (and if you can't, why be with that person long term?)

    For those cross dressers who realize after years that this didn't go away or that some vague feminine clothing urges have got a lot stronger - you know what? Yes. People DO change. And from what I can tell from listening to stories on this board, that conversation will go a lot better if you have a reason, right then, to tell. "Honey, I never told you about this because I had thought this was some teenage thing I grew out of and then I met you, but I liked to wear panties when I was a teen. Lately, I have been feeling an urge to try it again, and also try on other feminine items of clothing. I felt like a freak and I was ashamed of this when I was a kid, but I looked it up on the Internet and now I realize that there are thousands of other straight, productive, happily married men who do this and I don't feel so alone now. I really needed to tell you so I wasn't hiding this from you."

    I think the benefits to telling in this case are:
    1) she can never accuse you of lying or hiding, or feel like you are, about your past and the marriage up until then.
    2) you ARE being honest about this.
    3) if you tell her this before you start putting on clothing (or certain types of clothing like going beyond panties or a bra because I'm pretty sure most guys tried at least one or the other on as a teen - and I have the Polaroid pictures in a box somewhere from a party when I was 15 or 16 to prove that at least 8 or 9 of my male friends did) then you set up for (at worst, if she can't accept) a DADT situation where she can pretend that as an adult male you haven't done that. At best, you'll never have to deal with some weird, granny clothing mixed with a miniskirt and clown makeup situation because she will embrace your girl expression and help it along.

    Edit: of course, life is rarely that simple, and YMMV - I just know that being told early means that I am happy with Crystal's girl side, and it lays a foundation for me to be more open to the level of girliness to change in the future if it needs to. I know that it is a possibility, just like someday one of us may be in a car crash, get cancer or get fat. Those (and about a zillion other things) are what I sign up for because I know they may someday happen but being with this person is worth all those risks.

    Second edit: any man on here who is justifying his dressing because his wife got fat or got cellulite: THESE THINGS ARE NATURAL PARTS OF AGING. 95% of human females will get cellulite at some point in their lives. It is so common many biological anthropologists list cellulite as a secondary sexual characteristic. A woman is as likely to fully get rid of cellulite as she is likely to get rid of her breasts - both would require invasive surgery. One has a chance of happening due to cancer. The other gets a lot of moral stigma.
    Last edited by Babeba; 10-14-2012 at 11:08 AM.

  20. #20
    Silver Member Angela Campbell's Avatar
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    aok so lets say you married a nice woman and after a year or so of marriage she tells you she really doesn't like sex and never did and just had sex with you to get you because she was afraid if she told you that you wouldn't marry her?

    She knew about it long before the vows and kept it secret because she did not know or suspected you wouldn't accept it.

    For most men this would be a deal breaker. Starting a marriage on a lie is never a good way to begin.

  21. #21
    Gold Member ~Joanne~'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by angela2112 View Post
    Said this before........... A crossdresser knows he's a crossdresser before he gets married.
    Not always. They may think they have a fetish of sorts. For example, Mine started as a pantyhose fetish, then many many years later it moved on to other things and then it all came together and just within the last year I have been coming to terms and learning to accept the fact that yes, I am a CD. The fetish factor, while diminished greatly and still sort of there, is mostly gone. Now, if I got married while it was still just a fetish, how did I know before hand?

    This situation is different per girl. Some accept right from the get go and yes, they should certainly come clean before getting married but a lot developed during the marriage and that can be tricky. if we applied the nose job senerio to this, let's say your wife wants one after she gets married, goes and gets one, is this a "I didn't sign up for this"? because maybe you believe that GOD gave her what he wanted her to have and she just altered it. I know of very FEW women that ever ask their husbands opinion or anything along those lines before they do something that they consider "their body". Nor do they ask about the clothes they are going to wear for whatever occasion .

    I have read this over and over again since joining the forum, how we need "their" approval for almost everything we do, even non CD related, but do you really get the same respect in return? I know this vary s from woman to woman, person to person but how often do you girls ask for anything in return for being allowed, like a child, to wear something that makes you comfortable or makes you feel complete as a person? after all, a marriage is a compromise right? yet you are the only one making that compromise.

    Sorry I went on the soap box, I am not married and I understand each and every relationship is different, each marriage is different, and some communicate better than others. I just wanted to vent a little about this. In the end I strongly believe, if the love is a true love, you wearing what you want to wear shouldn't be a factor, deal breaker, or a contract.
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  22. #22
    Platinum Member Beverley Sims's Avatar
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    Those that transition and have not told their spouses before hand have a similar and more serious problem than CDers.
    The same goes for liars, cheats, porn lovers, alternate lifestylers, alchoholics, religious bigots, rednecks....... I could go on.
    If they have not been honest with their wives beforehand then it can be a deal breaker.
    When you get married these problems do not always come to light but the majority work at it and to some extent resolve the issue.
    I don't think I would have married my wife if she was sniffing powder of some kind, bank robber or possibly a CDer.
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  23. #23
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    This subject has been really beaten to death. It seems from numerous threads and postings over the years I've been on this site, the real issue is the consequences of disclosure. Now, that is not limited to a wife finding out about the non disclosed cross-dressing that existed before marriage, but, also cross-dressing that developed after marital vows were exchanged. Consequences also are evident in a marriage when the initially accepting wife, prior to and after exchange of marital vows, becomes non accepting. Half the marriages in the country end in divorce. I research the issue for briefly. The CDC even looks at the issue? Anyway, I'm not going to try to BS the issue. When I did step away from the site before posting I read an interesting short essay by Anne Vitale. I am not good a linkage so I'll leave it to somebody else. Anyway read:

    "Notes on Gender Role Transition" by Anne Vitale

    I found the essay quite interesting.

  24. #24
    Junior Member Diane Maple's Avatar
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    So, it sounds like there are a number of different people on here....

    My perspective... On my first date with my to be wife I told her I was Bi. Not sort of Bi, but... really Bi. I told her many many things I liked to do I had just ended a relationship with two bi girls and I made it clear I enjoy many sexual things. She was never and has never really been into too many of the things I enjoy. The cross dressing is something I didn't share with her because I hadn't shared it with anyone. Being married 14 years sexually we have always been okay. Our relationship as friends, loved ones who support one another has always been strong. We have had issues talking with one another off an on like any couple. .... Yes, she felt like she had been lied to because I had not told her sooner. In the end though, she knows this is just another part of me and she loves me and I love her. Looking back and yes, I learned this when we saw someone for a while... people change and if you are married long enough it's like being married to multiple people over the years. For me I feel like I have been married to at least 5 or 6 different women over the years. All have been and are great. They are all also a bit different. I know I have been different at least as many times. So, this part of me being shared... it is just me being me... version 7 or something like that and she loves me. Yes, things are different. Yes, we aren't the same. Yes, it can be hard. In the end though we are friends and lovers I plan on being with her till the end. No matter what she or I do.

  25. #25
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    In the examples from the OP, none really change the identity or social reality of the spouse. Changing genders forces the spouse from a heterosexual relationship into something quite different. When one's gender matches that of the spouse, society can perceive the relationship as effectively homosexual. I can see that for most hetero spouses, that would be a deal breaker.

    If a Hetero CD's wife began presenting as a man, would (s)he feel comfortable being perceived as gay?
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