They say all good things must come to an end

[Foxglove]

Do we have to be mean to Marla? She's one of us, and a very nice one of us, too. Whether she's asking for it not, she's got my sympathy. Now I wonder if I can help her out?

No and I'm not trying to be mean, I'm trying to find out why she posted what she did. There's not much point in a forum where all the responses ade "poor baby, this is hard on you."

OK, Linda, the comment sounded mean to me. But if you're saying it wasn't intended to be, I can accept that. I can agree with you that certain kinds of posts might not be helpful on a thread like this, but there's been more than that sort of post on this thread.

Quitting dressing is not like quitting smoking or alcohol. Tobacco and alcohol are not a part of your intrinsic makeup. TGism is.

That's nothing but a tired and overused excuse for a lack of self control. Crossdressing is something you do. You can stop by just not doing it. It may not be easy but you can stop. Consider this - You are put in jail. Would you stop crossdressing? You join the army and live in a barracks with other men or are sent to a war zone. Would you stop crossdressing? You suffer from a medical condition or an accident and are moved into a nursing home. Would you stop crossdressing?

Linda, I think you're missing a very big point here. Some people on this forum say that their CDing is about nothing but the clothes, and maybe they would not be missing much by giving them up. I'm not sure of that, though. Because a lot of those members do say that their clothes are important to them.

But for some of us, our TGism is not just clothes. It runs much, much deeper than that. It certainly appears to me that's Marla's case. Let her pronounce on that. But it's certainly my case, and when you're telling me to stop dressing, you're telling me to stop being trans, to stop being what I am. And that doesn't sit too well with me.

Imagine saying this to a black guy: "Hey, if you want to get along in a white dominated society, you have to stop being black. Why do you have to dress like a black guy? Why do you have to talk with that black accent? Can't you dress and talk like a white guy?"

I think we'd all agree that is nothing but pure racism. But that's what you're telling me and other transpeople like me when you suggest that it's just "a matter of self-control": if you want to get along in the cisworld, you've got to stop being trans. I don't know what the word for this is. Transphobia? "Anti-transism"? In any case, you're not telling me to stop dressing. You're telling me to stop being trans.

For you perhaps, dressing or not is a matter of self-control. For me it's a question of what I am. It's not like giving up booze or cigarettes. It's giving up myself. And it's not "a tired and overused excuse for a lack of self control." Sorry, but I have to say this: that sounds so much like my father, it makes me cringe.

Marla may be put in a position where she must either stop crossdressing or lose her wife. Personally, I am fortunate enough that my wife has accepted my dressing but if she didn't, I would quit dressing rather than lose her.

Yes, you're very fortunate. But Marla's not. She's up against the "trans dilemma". A lot of us know what that is.

[Raychel]

I feel for you Marla. I very often think what life will be like around here after the kids have moved on and we are retired. I hope and pray that Raychel can still be around.

I hope things work out well for you

[Sara Jessica]

This is a real issue for a lot of us on a number of fronts. It could arise out of working from home, retirements, children (both new & those who are growing older), etc. Some in these pages are in a place where none of these factors come into play because of how their spouse "accepts" their dressing. But regardless of when disclosure took place, many SO's just cannot get their heads around seeing their guy running around in a dress, heels, makeup and a wig. This is often the root of a DADT arrangement, a way for our SO's to cope with this thing of ours.

Marla, you have received a lot of advice here and all I can add is a little about my own situation which is somewhere in that DADT continuum but clearly in a different place than yours. As you know, I am able to go out & about with her full knowledge of what I am up to. In other words, I am not put in a position where I have to lie and sneak around in order to get out which helps immensely. Perhaps communication can open up to the point were you can get out once or twice a month in another town to attend your support group or something like that.

Also, although I don't typically hang out with her when presenting as a female, she is well aware that as she sleeps in the early morning hours, I am sitting here with my coffee, on the computer, wearing something feminine, mostly as simple as jeans or leggings with a top but really, I can wear whatever I choose during this time. What this does for me is it helps to quiet the background noise that is ever-present in my head throughout the day. It is a quiet time in the house and even though I am in an alcove off of our master bedroom, she has often woken up to catch a fleeting glimpse of me. Bottom line, once the family is awake and buzzing about, all bets are off for the remainder of the day and I present in guy/dad/hubby mode.

My point for you here is twofold, that perhaps you can make such an arrangement with your wife but also keep in mind that the hair/makeup/nails might have to be reserved for when she is away for a few hours or for outings. Ideally this can be arranged in a part of the house away from her sight but either way, the common theme amongst many of the posts here is communication. You will be crushed if you try to bury this away forever. This is something that has to be talked about and hopefully there can be a resolution which gives you a little bit of space, even if it goes on to maintain the DADT status quo.

Good luck Marla, I'll be thinking of you.

[TGMarla]

Again, I thank everyone for all the feedback. The ongoing topic seems to be the spitting match between Annabelle and Linda, so let me address that briefly. Linda, you started out your remarks by telling me I had three very stark choices, two of which were completely out of the question. Suddenly, after 18 1/2 years, I'm forced into either quitting this altogether or leaving my wife. " Leave her," you said. "Get an appartment (sp), and do what you wish." At least your second suggestion stayed within the bounds of reality. That choice was to talk with her. And while you're correct that a whole bunch of "Aww...poor baby" is not all that constructive, I'm not sure that "Scared Straight" is warranted here either.

I seriously doubt I could ever really quit this. It is, as I'd said, a "most integral and intimate part of my life", by which I meant "very intrinsic and personal". So nice that one member chose to misinterpret that and lambast me over it. Just what I need. But know this: I do not forsee a day when my wife will treat my dressing up like it was nothing at all, simply another part of me. Perhaps that is my fault, but I think had I forced the issue over the past twelve years, I'd have destroyed our marriage. As it turns out, at present my marriage is really a pretty good one, one that I am about 90% satisfied with. And that 10% would include her non-acceptance and a whole slough of nit-picky things that really don't matter in the bigger picture.

So the prevailing attitude here is that I should speak with her about a subject that we've really never spoken about in over 12 years or so. Frankly, I don't even know how to bring up the subject. It is not in my habit to suddenly decide to talk to her about things that I know will upset her - to take away her decent mood and replace it with one that is very upset. And what would be the outcome? Some kind of compromise where she leaves the house for a few hours simply so I can crossdress? I think that would go over about like a lead balloon. Allow me to dress in front of her? She's never even seen me dressed, save for one Halloween. She thought I looked really good.....a little too good. And while that didn't upset her, at that time she didn't know about the crossdressing. When she found out, that did upset her. I disclosed everything to her in a five-page letter which I later found in the paper shredder. We have not really spoken of it since. And if a letter to her explaining the truth to her got her that upset, imagine how she'll feel when she sees my breast forms, not to mention a wardrobe of about fifty dresses, ten pairs of shoes, and various sweaters, tops, blouses, and skirts.

I've dressed by myself for so long now, I don't know how I could ever do it with her around. I'd feel funny, and even a little ashamed because I'd feel like I was emasculating her husband right in front of her. But I'm getting ahead of myself here. I'm a long way from that happening.

Some of you here have been my friends for a very long time. You know who you are. I've followed your situations, laughed and cried with you, and never really had to deal head-on with my own. I thank you for your support and friendship. It really means a lot to me.

Yes, this is a monster of my own making, and I knew that sooner or later I'd have to deal with it. But I seriously thought it would be later - like about ten years later. Now I'm down to a month, and I have no clue how to even approach the subject with her. And I don't know to what end such a conversation will take us. It is not my nature to just let things fly and watch with amusement where the pieces wind up. So I still don't yet know just how I'm going to deal with this. But I doubt I'm going to like it all that much.

[CherylAnne]

Marla, I know this is a painful time for you. I went through the exact same thing about 3 years ago. Due to different shifts of us both working outside the home, I could dress about any time I wanted. Then, with barely any notice, her department was shut down, and overnight a 24/7 stay at home wife. And, as an aside, we went from a two income family to a one income family.
This is not meant to be patronizing, but, opportunities will present themselves when you least expect.
I hope this works out for you and your wife.

CherylAnne

[Karren H]

Awe, I wish I had advice for you on this one! This is one really good perk of my having a job that keeps me on the road.

I heard Kim's looking for a helper! to follow her around and carried her luggage? Just don't ask her to train you.... lol

[LaurenAnne]

I lived in a "don't ask, don't tell" relationship for many years... and I found it to be ultimately intolerable. Life is too short to spend energy denying an important aspect of who you are, in my opinion.

My advice would be to seek out a therapist with experience in dealing with TG couples to assist with exploring these issue with your wife. Ultimately I think you're going to have to deal with the "consequences" of coming out if you're *both* going to be happy.

Just my opinions.. in any event I feel for you & good luck!

[TGMarla]

Karren....you're always such a help! But if I carry her luggage, who will carry mine? Need a job?

CherylAnne.....thanks for the encouragement. Sigh....things absolutely will not be the same. But I'll persevere.

LaurenAnne......I highly doubt that a therapist will be necessary, but I'm also very sure that we'll find our way.

[Alice Torn]

Marla,You have my empathy. I left my toxic family in 1981, 2000 miles away, and was gone for 29 yrs, thought i would never have to be with them again.NOT! Circumstances force me to have to quit my business, leave my friends, and support systems, and come back into the dark hole . I could not dress for months. The need to dress can be suppressed, or repressed, but it is always tugging. I have no idea what that is like, with a dear, but unaccepting wife. It brings tears to my eyes. Maybe pray to Higher Power, I would really be suffering if i could not ever dress again, but a loyal, loving wife, is really far more important. Some guy said life is easy and a breeze. I'd like to talk to him!

[VeronicaMoonlit]

There is a lot of good-natured prodding on this thread (and many others) for those of us in the closet to get out of it. To let slip the self-imposed bonds of secrecy; to embrace liberation. "Have that talk with your wife, because you really need too ...you're destroying yourself, it's not a sustainable strategy, it's unfair to her, it's deception ... the longer you put it off the worse it will get ..." etc etc.

And for good reason, it's the best solution. Let me put it this way, which of these three things is the best. Be honest:

1. Telling wife before marriage.

2. Telling wife after marriage.

3. Not telling wife, having her find the stash, assuming an affair, finding out about the crossdressing and feeling betrayed/decieved, etc etc.

#1 is the best, because it "prevents" the problems associated with the latter two from coming up in the first place. I'm all about prevention, prevention, prevention.

Every one of those things may be very true,

Not. "may be" but "are true". They've been proven through years of experiences by many many transpeople.

but what is also true is that making that decision has real-world consequences that cannot be undone. Those of us in the closet have to weigh the consequences of leaving, carefully.

True, but when I say coming out, I usually just mean to immediate family, those you live with. But there's a well known GLBT saying: "Closets are for clothes, not people."

Marla characterized cross-dressing in her OP as a "selfish habit". I disagree, though how we choose to deal with it can be. It could indeed be very selfish to bare your soul to your family in this manner, especially if you have really good reasons to believe the outcome will not be better for anyone involved but you (and even then ... if it ends badly ... not so much).

Marla's wife knows Marla dresses, they have an "Don't ask dont tell (DADT) and don't talk about the trans elephant in the room" thing going. Now if Marla's wife didn't know at all, I would have said something different.

but ... before you urge someone to drop a nuke on their marriage, you may want to consider if you are offering this advice from the perspective of someone who took that option, and was extraordinarily lucky.

Honesty is always the best solution, as is telling before, that way if the future partner has any objections, she can back out of the relationship with minimal harm done.

That choice was to talk with her. And while you're correct that a whole bunch of "Aww...poor baby" is not all that constructive, I'm not sure that "Scared Straight" is warranted here either.

Heh, I think you got some of both...that should work.

I seriously doubt I could ever really quit this.

I doubt you could too, and if you had said you could I would have figuratively bonked you on the head for saying so.

But know this: I do not forsee a day when my wife will treat my dressing up like it was nothing at all, simply another part of me.

Never say never, always have hope.

So the prevailing attitude here is that I should speak with her about a subject that we've really never spoken about in over 12 years or so. Frankly, I don't even know how to bring up the subject.

Well, there's your own writings. You could always take her to a support group meeting, or have her join these boards. There's also books, my guess is that the Peggy Rudd books would serve you well. (if you were younger and were married to someone progressive, I'd tell you to start with Boyd instead)

And what would be the outcome? Some kind of compromise where she leaves the house for a few hours simply so I can crossdress?

A compromise is better than nothing.

I disclosed everything to her in a five-page letter which I later found in the paper shredder.

Eek, it's better to say it directly, not do the letter thing. I know I know, writing it is easier and less scary. I even wrote my "crossdresser letter" to my Mother, but I handed it to her..and we talked about it then and there.

We have not really spoken of it since. And if a letter to her explaining the truth to her got her that upset, imagine how she'll feel when she sees my breast forms, not to mention a wardrobe of about fifty dresses, ten pairs of shoes, and various sweaters, tops, blouses, and skirts.

Yes, but well, we both know that the DADT/hiding solution wasn't a good one in the first place. And no more letters! Talk to her directly.

I've dressed by myself for so long now, I don't know how I could ever do it with her around. I'd feel funny, and even a little ashamed because I'd feel like I was emasculating her husband right in front of her.

That's natural, I felt the same way at first...though not the emasculating bit. That's the shame of it, it lessens in time.

But I'm getting ahead of myself here. I'm a long way from that happening.

Never give up hope.

I've followed your situations, laughed and cried with you, and never really had to deal head-on with my own.

And now it's your turn, and I know it's scary. But you've got a lot of people rooting for you.

But I seriously thought it would be later - like about ten years later.

You know, I figured you'd have about 10 more years too, it's why I hadn't really prodded you to talk more about your elephant.

Now I'm down to a month, and I have no clue how to even approach the subject with her. And I don't know to what end such a conversation will take us. It is not my nature to just let things fly and watch with amusement where the pieces wind up. So I still don't yet know just how I'm going to deal with this. But I doubt I'm going to like it all that much.

Also, ask the partners in PM if you want to.

I heard Kim's looking for a helper! to follow her around and carried her luggage? Just don't ask her to train you.... lol

I'm laughing I thought of that too. :-) As I said, a Kim Huddle style "dress away from home" thing might be part of a compromise.

LaurenAnne......I highly doubt that a therapist will be necessary, but I'm also very sure that we'll find our way.

Don't rule out the counselor...but keep thinking positive.

Veronica

[linda allen]

Let me put it this way, which of these three things is the best. Be honest:

1. Telling wife before marriage.

2. Telling wife after marriage.

3. Not telling wife, having her find the stash, assuming an affair, finding out about the crossdressing and feeling betrayed/decieved, etc etc. ......

That seems pretty simple, but for many of us, the desire to crossdress comes later in life after we've been married for a while, perhaps many years.

Life is far to complex to be reduced to a multiple choice test question. We can give the OP advice, but our advice is colored by our own situations and life experiences. The facts as we understand them are: She won't give up dressing and she won't leave her marriage. Her wife will be working from home so she won't be able to dress around the home unless she tells her wife about her desire to do so and her wife agrees to her dressing while she is home.

With all that out of the way, the only advice that is of any use to the OP is advice on how to possibly bring the dressing up to the wife and have it end in a positive way. Even then, only the OP is in a position to judge what might work and what might not.

[Kate Simmons]

Regardless of how things go, my guides are telling me you will be fine Marla and they are seldom wrong. Sometimes we tend to over think things but when we stop doing that, everything seems to naturally settle into place where it should be. Take care my friend.

[TGMarla]

Yeah, Linda, that about boils it down to gravy. But as I've already stated, she's not going to willingly agree to something like crossdressing when she's home, and I would feel uncomfortable doing it around her anyway. Unless she has some kind of epiphany, and suddenly becomes this accepting spouse who gets a kick out of seeing her husband emulating a woman, I don't see this changing. Veronica, while analytical (to an exponential extent), has never been married to my knowledge. Forgive me if I'm mistaken here. But it's one thing to toss advice around (lots of it) without any real-world experience of the situations on which one is giving advice. It's another to live it and come up with actual solutions. It's possible that there may not be a solution to my situation. That is something I may need to accept. Maybe or maybe not.

....the only advice that is of any use to the OP is advice on how to possibly bring the dressing up to the wife and have it end in a positive way.

You know what? That really does about sum it up, doesn't it? But the devil is in the details. And this very thing is what's kept this subject off the table for these many years. We were both quite happy not talking about it. It's a safe bet that she'll still be quite happy not talking about it. As for me, I'd like the entire problem to just go away, but that isn't going to happen either.

I don't think she's aware of the fact that many crossdressers need to dress for their own well-being. I'm sure that such a statement is very self-serving, but I think it's true. "Honey, you don't understand. This is something I need to do." "Yeah? Why? You're a man. Why do you need to run around in high heels wearing boobs?"

It's funny, but I don't know how to answer that. It's a compulsion. There is an urge inside of me to do so. Doing so answers a great need that I have deep inside of me. But I'm not sure why. I only know that this is something that somehow completes me, makes me whole. And carving it out of my life would be like losing a limb or something. I've never known life without it, and over the years, it's gotten to the point where it's become a rather complex ritual. It's way more than simply wearing a feminine item or two. It's complete female emulation from head to toe. I absolutely love wearing dresses, and spending time as the well-dressed woman I might have been had I been born female instead. I don't do this to make myself into some kind of freak or laughing stock. I have very little need whatsoever to go out in public all that much, either. Mostly what I need when it comes to this part of me, is time. I enjoy the state of being when I'm all dressed up. And after a few hours or so, I can put it away without much regret. And that very thing is exactly what I stand to lose when my wife starts working from home.

[TGMarla]

Regardless of how things go, my guides are telling me you will be fine Marla and they are seldom wrong. Sometimes we tend to over think things but when we stop doing that, everything seems to naturally settle into place where it should be. Take care my friend.

I like that. Thanks Kate.

[Foxglove]

I don't think she's aware of the fact that many crossdressers need to dress for their own well-being. I'm sure that such a statement is very self-serving, but I think it's true.

It isn't self-serving. It's simply the truth. That's what a lot of us have such a hard time recognizing: this isn't just something I do. It's a part of me.

"Honey, you don't understand. This is something I need to do." "Yeah? Why? You're a man. Why do you need to run around in high heels wearing boobs?"

It's funny, but I don't know how to answer that.

You say, "No, I'm not a man. I'm trans. They're two different things."

Men do what they do, women do what they do, and we do what we do. We're not the same as them.

Best wishes, Annabelle

[linda allen]

Marla, here's my story:

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...old&highlight=

Be sure and read the links this post contains as well. It's basically my story and my progress up to that point. Last evening, my wife asked me if I was saving my wig for a special occasion (I told her about ordering it and getting it, but had not put it on in front of her). I took that as an invitation so I went and put it on and came back into the room. "I think you want to be a woman." was her response. "No, I just like to dress like one." was mine. Later she said "I just hate it when your hair looks better than mine." I assured her that it didn't. I left it on until bed time and I'll be wearing it when she gets home from the gym today.

It's working for me. It may not work for you but given that you've ruled out the other choices, you have to find a way. Best of luck.

[Sara Jessica]

Last evening, my wife asked me if I was saving my wig for a special occasion (I told her about ordering it and getting it, but had not put it on in front of her). I took that as an invitation so I went and put it on and came back into the room. "I think you want to be a woman." was her response. "No, I just like to dress like one." was mine. Later she said "I just hate it when your hair looks better than mine." I assured her that it didn't. I left it on until bed time and I'll be wearing it when she gets home from the gym today.

This makes me think of an area where Marla and I have a whole lot in common. We don't have a desire to get dolled up and hang out with our SO's. I think Marla's aversion is even greater than mine because while I don't go out of my way to avoid my wife while presenting as a female, she will catch fleeting glimpses here and there which failed to make the world explode.

Yet at the same time, maybe it did and this is where Marla's feelings about this whole thing come into play. Our SO's world may very well explode in a slow-burn inside their own hearts or even with a contained violence, either of which is held inside, the image of their hubby forever engrained and heaven help us should she ever let loose with her true feelings about how she now perceives her guy.

Marla, I truly think you need to somehow carve out an understanding, not that you will be prancing around your wife while presenting as a female but instead, that you'll be in a sequestered part of the house doing your thing while she does hers, and that out of absolute respect for her you will not have her see anything. Yes, easier said than done.

[linda allen]

This makes me think of an area where Marla and I have a whole lot in common. We don't have a desire to get dolled up and hang out with our SO's. I think Marla's aversion is even greater than mine because while I don't go out of my way to avoid my wife while presenting as a female, she will catch fleeting glimpses here and there which failed to make the world explode. ..............

When you and your wife are both retired, it may be hard to avoid each other unless you live in a mansion. More importantly though, if you and your wife love each other, you will want to be around each other much of the time.

There are many folks on the forum who spend much of their time in "female" mode with their wives and even go out shopping or to restaurants with their wives as "sisters" or friends. This is pretty much my goal although I want to remain "male" to friends and neighbors. We have a place where we often spend weekends among friends and I am in "male" mode during that time except for wearing panties and possibly a bra.

For those who follow my "saga", this is a work in progress. I try to determine what she is comfortable with while keeping a constant gentle push..

Marla, I truly think you need to somehow carve out an understanding, not that you will be prancing around your wife while presenting as a female but instead, that you'll be in a sequestered part of the house doing your thing while she does hers,

I don't see something like that as more than a temporary arrangement. Not something that will last for the rest of their lives.

[NicoleScott]

What good does it do to remind us - again - that we should have told our wives before we married. We know that - now. It's not constructive for Marla at this point.
Marla's marriage is worth saving, and that's what makes this so hard.

[linda allen]

You say, "No, I'm not a man. I'm trans. They're two different things."

I find myself having to say this over and over again, but we are all different and we need to remember this when we give advice, especially something as specific as the above.

If you identify yourself as a simple crossdresser, not a transexual, that would not be a good response. Personally, I identify myself as a heterosexual male who likes to dress as a woman from time to time, not a transexual.

I believe most women would rather find out that their husband of many years (supposedly a man) is a crossdresser rather than somewhere between a man and a woman.

[Tora]

Marla, Just hang in there. Tomorrow is another day with new goals and rewards. Great Photos.

[daviolin]

Marla, your post is so depressing. You poor girl. I really feel for you. I wish there was something I could say to cheer you up. Just hang in there, something will develop for you. Please keep us posted. Daviolin

[ReineD]

… and I would feel uncomfortable doing it around her anyway. Unless she has some kind of epiphany, and suddenly becomes this accepting spouse who gets a kick out of seeing her husband emulating a woman, I don't see this changing.

This is the crux of the matter. It's about how comfortable YOU feel. It's internal to you, not her.

There is the possibility that she can know that you dress, but still not like it. Some wives can and do tolerate behaviors they are not happy with and this does not need to spell the end of a marriage nor does it affect how they feel about their husbands. This is the "DADT" approach, although in this situation, I think it is still important to maintain a line of communication open occasionally to make sure the wife is not reaching a slow-burn to the point of future explosion.

At this point, you believe that unless she loses her bias against the CDing, you will feel uncomfortable. After she has been working at home for 6 months or a year, if you feel you are about to explode and your own negative feelings, be they anger, frustration, or depression, begin to affect your day to day moods to the point where they will have a negative impact on your relationship, you may well decide that it is worth dressing and not having her approval, than not dressing at all.

On a different note, I don't know if you've ever heard of the term "codependency". Although there are many ways to be codependent, in a nutshell it is an unhealthy dynamics that is pervasive in many relationships, where one or both partners make themselves responsible for the other partner's feelings and/or where there is an attempt to control for a specific outcome either through not disclosing the truth, or controlling through anger, or many other ways there are to exert control.

On the other hand, it is healthy in relationships to be "interdependent" and without this, a couple would not be "a couple". It is difficult to sort through codependency vs. interdependency, since codependency patterns in some people can be ultra controlling, while in others they can be rather subtle and easily mask for the healthy interdependency. It behooves partners to focus on and change their codependent patterns when they reach an impasse over certain issues in their lives. This next link compares the two (codependent vs. interdependent), although for the purpose of the comparison they've used the more extreme examples of the codependent patterns:

http://www2.webster.edu/studlife/cou...dependency.htm

There is a great deal more about this if you google it. And if you recognize that you are codependent and you want to change this (if only to get rid of your current anxiety over the upcoming changes in your life), here is an excellent book:

http://www.amazon.com/Codependent-No...ds=codependent

The author, Melodie Beatty, in one of her book chapters advocates for 12-Step programs (CODA) to help people maintain the unlearning of codependent patterns in their day to day lives. Many people get freaked out over any mention of 12-Step programs, and so I just want to say there are tons of books that will help with codependency by other authors, although Beatty's books are among the best.

I don't think she's aware of the fact that many crossdressers need to dress for their own well-being. I'm sure that such a statement is very self-serving, but I think it's true. "Honey, you don't understand. This is something I need to do." "Yeah? Why? You're a man. Why do you need to run around in high heels wearing boobs?"

Marla, I'm surprised to read this from you. You've been a member here for many years, no doubt you've read the countless threads dissecting whether CDers are men or not and to what degree, (your name even says you are TG), you're familiar with gender non-conformity, you've read from other members how they told their wives. You know there are ways to explain this.

Getting back to your current dilemma about how to deal with your wife working from home, if you do tell your wife that you need to dress on occasion and she has extreme reactions, then she is being codependent. If she does not have extreme reactions but merely expresses disapproval, and you cannot dress because of this, then you are being codependent.

Disclaimer: to everyone reading this, this is a reminder there are different degrees of feminine expression. Saying, "I need to express femininity occasionally" is different than, "I am a woman born in the wrong body", and each statement will understandably incur different reactions in spouses.

[Alice Torn]

Kate may be right on here. I, and some of us, maybe all, tend to think ourselves into a tizy. Overthinking. Concern is good, but turns into wrry in a New York second. Easy does it maybe be fitting. kate is right.

[VeronicaMoonlit]

That seems pretty simple, but for many of us, the desire to crossdress comes later in life after we've been married for a while, perhaps many years.

While it's true that there are "late-starters" they are in the minority, easily outnumbered by those who started pre-adulthood.

Life is far to complex to be reduced to a multiple choice test question.

Ever hear of "Occam's Razor", I shave my legs with it all the time. Let's look at this again. If a crossdresser marries, what are the things with the highest probabily things to happen in regards to the trans-thing. They are the three I stated....the things most likely to happen. We see those three things ALL THE TIME, on these boards (and other ones as well, and USENET, and IRC, books, TV shows, magazines, etc etc) There's a fourth as well but since it's much lower probability than the others, I threw it out. The fourth being keeping it secret through the entire marriage until you die and hope your wife dies first. That has a very low probability, considering how many "my wife found my stuff, what do I do" threads we see here.

All of that saves time on the "decision tree" by reducing things to the basics. Keep it simple. And once you have it distilled down to the essentials, then you can choose the optimal solution. Which is, as we all know, #1. Failing that you go to #2, which is less optimal as we have seen, and #3, which is no fun at all.

Now implementing the solution...that's the hard part. But one can probably use a similar method to help out in working on a solution.

We can give the OP advice, but our advice is colored by our own situations and life experiences.

Indeed, but that's a good thing. Some of us have been around long enough and have enough experience to "know" what works in general terms. And at it's basic core, isn't honesty the best solution?

With all that out of the way, the only advice that is of any use to the OP is advice on how to possibly bring the dressing up to the wife and have it end in a positive way.

Which I did.

Even then, only the OP is in a position to judge what might work and what might not.

Perhaps, but we aren't that different that we can't see the patterns and archetypes and see the solutions that have the highest probability of working. We see the same situations show up over and over and over again here.

But as I've already stated, she's not going to willingly agree to something like crossdressing when she's home,

Now hold on there, that's negative thinking. That's what prevents us from being open about this in the first place, always assuming the worst outcome. I did it myself before I came out to my family and you're doing it now. Heck, I once believed that my father would literally kill me if he ever found out. I was wrong to assume the worst. Others have found out they were wrong too, and yes, I think you're wrong to assume the worst. Though I know it's very very easy to fall into the trap of assuming the worst. I'm not saying to not take the worst in account, but If you assume the worst and say or do nothing...then what happens: you don't dress at all.

You don't want that, and I don't want that to happen to you. That would be a very very sad thing. So, wouldn't it be better to not assume the worst and go in to the situation with a non-negative mindset? Gee I'm sounding like Norman Vincent Peale here. :-)

Veronica, while analytical (to an exponential extent), has never been married to my knowledge. Forgive me if I'm mistaken here.

That is correct, I've never been married.

But it's one thing to toss advice around (lots of it) without any real-world experience of the situations on which one is giving advice. It's another to live it and come up with actual solutions.

I'm going to chide and lecture you a bit on that:

I don't have an RHCSA/RHCE cert, but after 10 years of running Red Hat based Linuxes, I might know a little something about running a Red Hat box don't you think?

There are counselors and therapists who counsel trans people but are not trans themselves...doesn't mean they don't know anything. There are marriage counselors who aren't married, or who are in Gay or lesbian relationships..doesn't mean they can't counsel hetereosexual marriages.

You know I've been around the transcommunity, online and off for years. I've watched TV shows dealing with married transfolk, I've read both Peggy Rudd's and Helen Boyd's books (lost of other books as well), I've read magazines, blogs, websites and been involved in various message boards and USENET or years.
I 've read threads by SO's and married transfolk. I didn't do all that not learn something useful. In fact since I hoped to myself be married....someday...I did it to prepare.

So yes, I'm not married and not a marriage counselor, but that doesn't mean I don't know anything. And in general terms, I don't think it's wise for one throw out advice given simply because the other person isn't "exactly" like us otherwise we'd have to throw out a lot.

It's possible that there may not be a solution to my situation. That is something I may need to accept. Maybe or maybe not.

Think positive, there's always a solution. (Now I sound like that guy in the Flashpoint promos on ION televison)

But the devil is in the details. And this very thing is what's kept this subject off the table for these many years. We were both quite happy not talking about it. It's a safe bet that she'll still be quite happy not talking about it. As for me, I'd like the entire problem to just go away, but that isn't going to happen either.

Then you "have" to talk about it, don't you. So then throw out any idea of "not talking about it" and work on the solution.

I don't think she's aware of the fact that many crossdressers need to dress for their own well-being. I'm sure that such a statement is very self-serving, but I think it's true. "Honey, you don't understand. This is something I need to do."

Well yes, you should say that. Talk about your "feelings" and how you've always felt about the trans

"Yeah? Why? You're a man. Why do you need to run around in high heels wearing boobs?"

It's funny, but I don't know how to answer that.

Actually you DO know how to answer that...you just don't realize it. You're transgendered, so explain trans 101. which you probably never did. But now it's time for you to do the classic trans 101 thing with your wife. Would have been somewhat easier "before", but you know that, and you're stuck with doing it now.

But now...you've got resources which you didn't have before, and that's a very good thing indeed! Tons of them, including this board and your own posts. Start preparing and collecting them and use them.

There is an urge inside of me to do so. Doing so answers a great need that I have deep inside of me. But I'm not sure why. I only know that this is something that somehow completes me, makes me whole. And carving it out of my life would be like losing a limb or something. I've never known life without it, and over the years, it's gotten to the point where it's become a rather complex ritual. It's way more than simply wearing a feminine item or two. It's complete female emulation from head to toe. I absolutely love wearing dresses, and spending time as the well-dressed woman I might have been had I been born female instead. I don't do this to make myself into some kind of freak or laughing stock. I have very little need whatsoever to go out in public all that much, either. Mostly what I need when it comes to this part of me, is time. I enjoy the state of being when I'm all dressed up. And after a few hours or so, I can put it away without much regret.

And what a great resource that very paragraph is! Use that, really, it's quite good. You need to show/tell that to your wife.

And that very thing is exactly what I stand to lose when my wife starts working from home.

Stop that, think positive!

It isn't self-serving. It's simply the truth. That's what a lot of us have such a hard time recognizing: this isn't just something I do. It's a part of me.

That's right.

You say, "No, I'm not a man. I'm trans. They're two different things."

Men do what they do, women do what they do, and we do what we do. We're not the same as them.

Well, I wouldn't tell Marla to say "exactly" that...but something similar:

"Look, I'm transgendered in the umbrella sense, always have been always will be, it's not going away."

I think Marla's aversion is even greater than mine because while I don't go out of my way to avoid my wife while presenting as a female, she will catch fleeting glimpses here and there which failed to make the world explode.

Yet at the same time, maybe it did and this is where Marla's feelings about this whole thing come into play. Our SO's world may very well explode in a slow-burn inside their own hearts or even with a contained violence, either of which is held inside, the image of their hubby forever engrained and heaven help us should she ever let loose with her true feelings about how she now perceives her guy.

And here is where I get to chide you both about the lack of communication. You don't know about exploding because you DADT. The lack of communication makes it harder on you than it needs to be. If she explodes internally you need to know it, if she "doesn't" explode then you need to know that too. If she explodes some times, but not others....you also need to know that.

Quoting Adam Steiner:

"Information is Ammunition."

More information is usually better than less, and I only say usually because I know about how sometimes information overload can be a problem.

Marla, I truly think you need to somehow carve out an understanding, not that you will be prancing around your wife while presenting as a female but instead, that you'll be in a sequestered part of the house doing your thing while she does hers, and that out of absolute respect for her you will not have her see anything. Yes, easier said than done.

I think that might be workable, over the short term at least....it gives you time for more communication anyway.

I don't see something like that as more than a temporary arrangement. Not something that will last for the rest of their lives.

Even if it's temporary, it's better than "nothing" and it gives them time to communicate and discuss this more.

What good does it do to remind us - again - that we should have told our wives before we married. It's not constructive for Marla at this point.

What good? My responses that mentioned telling before marriage were not just written with Marla in mind but others who might read them as well. The were also written with the other people in dADT sitiuations in mind, which I mentioned. And also with the people who are NOT married in mind...which I also mentioned. Prevention, prevention, prevention. If those who are NOT married see it often enough maybe they'll figure it out and NOT make the same mistakes we did.

We know that - now.

Then why aren't you saying it yourself, shouting it to the heavens to try to prevent the problems we see ALL THE TIME. 20 years from now I don't want to login to this website and see yet another: "My wife found my stash, what do I do" thread. I hope for a better future where wives don't find stashes, because they were told before marriage. A future with less angst, shame and anguish.

Marla's marriage is worth saving, and that's what makes this so hard.

Indeed.

I find myself having to say this over and over again, but we are all different and we need to remember this when we give advice,

Yes, but we aren't "that diffferent" that there aren't patterns, types and archetypes to this thing of ours that we can apply in offering solutions and advice.

If you identify yourself as a simple crossdresser, not a transexual, that would not be a good response. Personally, I identify myself as a heterosexual male who likes to dress as a woman from time to time, not a transexual.

I think the person used "trans" as shorthand for "transgendered" (in the umbrella sense) not "transsexual"

I believe most women would rather find out that their husband of many years (supposedly a man) is a crossdresser rather than somewhere between a man and a woman.

Perhaps, but I don't think people should underplay or understate the extent of their transgendered feelings either. Many crossdressers DO have a transgender identity...that doesn't mean they identify as transsexual though.

Veronica