Friends of Bill, Friends of Jill?

[harley47]

I have always thought it ironic that conditions like Alcoholism and worthwhile groups like 'Friends of Bill' and Alcoholic Anonymous don't carry any special stigma. Most feel empathy for someone trying to cope with a drinking problem.
I am troubled, however, that there isn't any true acceptance nor understanding for Crossdressing. I wish there were a 'Friends of Jill' as I have whimsically named this group.
Not so easy for us to come out of the closet like a recovering alcoholic. what do you think?

[Eryn]

The big difference is that crossdressing isn't a "problem" like alcohol addiction so there is nothing from which to recover.

[DebbieL]

I have always thought it ironic that conditions like Alcoholism and worthwhile groups like 'Friends of Bill' and Alcoholic Anonymous don't carry any special stigma. Most feel empathy for someone trying to cope with a drinking problem.
I am troubled, however, that there isn't any true acceptance nor understanding for Crossdressing. I wish there were a 'Friends of Jill' as I have whimsically named this group.
Not so easy for us to come out of the closet like a recovering alcoholic. what do you think?

I've been a friend of Bill and a friend of Kenny for years. In fact, part of my coming out was facilitated by doing the 12 steps with understanding sponsors.

Keep in mind that when an alcoholic drinks or an addict uses drugs, they often become self destructive, and the more they use, the more self-destructive they become until eventually they will end up in jails, institutions, or dead if they do not get clean and sober.
Keep in mind that the Big Book was written by the first 100 people to get 5 YEARS clean. They realized the nature of the problem and came up with an effective form of treatment that has helped hundreds of millions of alcoholics and addicts over the last 75 years.

After studying over 15,000 transgenders, including transsexuals and cross-dressers, they found that those who were discouraged from dressing and encouraged to lie, pretend to accept their birth gender, and conform - had a 50% suicide rate, turned to drugs, prostitution, and crime, and had friends who had been murdered or committed suicide. Conversely, of those who transitioned or felt free to express their feminine site to the degree they wanted - they were happier, more productive, and economically more successful than they were before doing so.

Based on the fundamental principles of the 12 steps, and the case histories of those who have transitioned or reached a point of satisfaction, the goal of ANY treatment program or support program for cross-dressers would have to support their cross-dressing, and for transsexuals would support their transition. The transsexual population is much smaller population with more dramatic needs and more catastrophic consequences when those needs are denied or rejected. The cross-dresser population is almost impossible to estimate because so many cross-dressers are so good at concealing their desires. It is worth noting however that publications that include stories about cross-dressing have been very popular, so popular that penthouse moved their cross-dressing section from Variations - which covered other topics such as B&D, S&M, to Penthouse Letters which also contains letters on oral, anal, and dressing, as well as many other relatively "ordinary" fantasies. Amazon has had a surprisingly large number of books about transgender and cross-dressing behaviors, and there seem to have been some rather brisk sales volumes.

Consider that 50 shades of grey has freed women to admit that they enjoy kink - many women bought the book even when they could have had it discretely on an e-reader or tablet. Votes for gay marriage were passed. I've even seen some estimates that indicated that as many as 75% of all men enjoyed some type of cross-dressing activity at some point in their lives.

The fundamental principles of a 12 step program is accepting that you are powerless and your life has become unmanagible - in the case of transgenders - we have the desire to express a feminine side, possibly even change sex, but feel powerless to be authentic about expressing that desire. Life becomes unmanageable when we are dishonest about these desires, when we try to suppress that aspect of our personalities, when we lie to wives, parents, lovers, and friends about something that is so fundamentally important to us. In effect, we build a life based on lies, and then we eventually reach the point where the lies overwhelm us. We feel trapped in a web of our own making - and many become so hopeless that they attempt to kill themselves, or actually kill themselves.

In the 2nd step, we observe those who have been successful, examine those who have successfully dealt with those issues and realize there is hope for us too. We see that transsexuals who successfully transition, or cross-dressers who have supportive wives, friends, and family are more likely to be happy, responsible, and productive, this gives us hope that we could find a solution for ourselves.

In the 3rd step, we need to make a choice - we can go back to the insanity of lies and deception that we know leads to terror, bewilderment, frustration, and despair, or we can choose a path that leads to happiness, being responsible, productive, and effective members of our society. For some of us, such a change would be a miracle, trusting a power of some sort greater than ourselves beyond the human may help us to be willing to trust the process.

In the fearless and thorough moral inventory, we can examine our own behavior. We can see the degree to which we have tried to hide an important element of ourselves. We can see how selfishness, dishonesty, self-seeking, and fear have created a life in which we can barely function. We may have the ability to do what we must, but we may find ourselves trapped in a hopeless or even loveless marriage, because the part of us that experiences and shares love has been completely shut down. We look at how events in our lives have impacted our self-esteem, security, ambition, friendships and love/sex lives. We look at how we retaliated and how we reacted when these areas were threatened. We look at how fear has driven us to a self-imposed prison. We see how we behaved in our sexual and love relationships, how much we lied about who we were, what we were. We see how much our love/sex relationships were based on selfishness, dishonesty, self-seeking, how others had been hurt by living this life of deception. We also look at what worked about each relationship, and then we try to fashion a safe and sane sex ideal, and a safe and sane ideal of how we want to live a life based on honesty. For many cross-dressers, this may be the point where we begin to explore whether or not we actually want to transition, whether we want to just dress in private. We begin to become more focused on the needs, fears, and desires of our partners. What secrets have they been keeping? We consider the possibility that they may be just like us, suffering in their own way.

In the 5th step, we share the inventory with someone else, a close-mouth trusted friend, it could be a therapist, counselor, or just a "sponsor", someone who has completed the steps themselves and can help us get a different perspective on the inventory. Often, they cross-examine us when we have put too much blame on others and not cleaned our side of the street. They keep us honest, and they show us that we can be accepted and loved regardless of those secrets we have been keeping.

In the 6th step, we wrestle with the way these behaviors permeate our existence. We may even want to change, yet we keep getting trapped in the same old behaviors. We WANT to change, to become more honest, and see that we can't do it by ourselves.

In 7th step, we consider the possibility that something beyond ourselves could change us, and we become willing to have that help. We might even ask a god or higher power - even if only the god of Coincidence, to help us. We trust the remainder of the process.

In the 8th step, we make a list of all the people we had harmed, starting with all of those people in our 4th step, adding others that occur later, and we become willing to make amends, to do what it takes to clean up the mess. At minimum, we can stop lying and start living authentically, allowing others to accept or reject, to move closer or move away, and to accept that this is part of the process.

In the 9th step, we actually start making amends, taking actions to be in communication, to be as honest as we are able, to clean our side the street without blaming anyone or anything else, to take responsibility for our actions, inaction, deceptions, and the impact it has had on our lives. We invite them to help us clean the street, let them tell us how they want to handle it and how they want to interact with us in the future. Some may reject us, others may embrace and forgive us, we accept their choice and abide by it.

In the 10th step, we begin to take daily action - taking inventory, when we are wrong admitting it right away. We can begin to be more honest about who we are. Personally, I can't do it at the end of the day, I do it in the bathroom, almost every time I go to the bathroom, I can check in with myself and see - have I done anything I need to clean up, do I owe an amends?

In the 11th step, we begin the daily process of taking committed action appropriate to our situation. We focus on how we can help others, how we can put the most we can into life, how we can make a difference, how we can serve others, how we can put aside our private and petty concerns, and how we can help other. We consider how we can be more honest and authentic in every area of our lives. We may take actions toward transition, we start to be honest with other people. We may tell others of our exact situation, and look for ways to help others. When at work, we look to how we can create the greatest value four our employers, when in community service, we give as much value as we can there, when we are with our families, we do what we can to build the self esteem of our spouses and children. Ideally, each room we enter is better in some way before we leave it. We may bring laughter, clean a bathroom sink, or wash some dishes. Even in the bedroom, we focus on the needs of our partner. We begin to understand that when we put everything we can into life, that our real and genuine needs will be taken care of.

In the 12th step, we help others with the same types of issues. How can we help other transgenders and transsexuals? And we practice these principles in ALL our affairs.

For a cross-dresser - a life based on honesty, integrity, authenticity, courage, and compassion is one in which they dress, are accepted for dressing, and are comfortable with the degree to which they can present as their desired gender - on a temporary basis.

For the transsexual - a life based on honesty, integrity, authenticity, courage, and compassion is one in which they transition to their chosen gender.

For a therapist, judge, or social worker to attempt to force conformation to birth gender on a full-time basis - would be unethical.

[ReineD]

I have always thought it ironic that conditions like Alcoholism and worthwhile groups like 'Friends of Bill' and Alcoholic Anonymous don't carry any special stigma. Most feel empathy for someone trying to cope with a drinking problem.

Recovering alcoholics and addicts are not exempt either. I've heard my fair share of gossip/whispers about them, and although their recovery is admired, privately many people still think of them as being "different" and there is a degree of walking on egg shells when they're around (for example, feeling uncomfortable having a glass of wine when a recovering alcoholic is present). I agree though, there doesn't seem to be as much stigma attached to being an alchololic. This is likely because almost every family has at least one member who has a problem.

I do think it's a question of numbers. The more people there are who engage in a behavior, the less strange it will seem to everyone else.

[Lisa Gerrie]

I have been friend of Bill W. for a bit over two years now.

There is a movement within the recovery community which is well represented in the upcoming movie The Anonymous People. A trailer is here: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...onymous-people

The movement sometimes compares itself to the gay community, because there are so many similarites. Shame, stereotypes, biggotry, discrimination. We even have "disease" in common.

I suspect that many people who frequent these forums will identify with the movement, even if they are not alcoholics or addicts.

I take that back... The vast majority of the folks here are "addicts" in a very real sense. When asked what their drug of choice is, some recovering alcoholics/addicts like to say "I'm addicted to more." Does that ring a bell with anybody here?

I'd be very interested to hear this group's opinions about the trailer.

[Lisa Gerrie]

To be clear, I was not saying that being transgendered is a disease. I was referring (too obliquely) to the public's opinion about gay people, which used to be associated with disease. Alcoholism is considered by many in recovery to be a disease.

[kristinacd55]

Interesting that you say that....it's something I haven't shared with my sponsor and I feel I'm leaving a big gap in my life by not sharing that. That being said, I DID share with a new friend in the rooms and it felt so gratifying! And I'm sober for 245 days and getting better and stronger every day!

[STACY B]

The big difference is that crossdressing isn't a "problem" like alcohol addiction so there is nothing from which to recover.

\But what if Crossdressing makes you an Alcoholic ? Try an drink her away ? Alot of here are or were ,,, If ya give in to the Girl your drinking problem goes away an Poof your cured !!

[Jana]

I disagree with your post in so many levels, I don't even know where to begin... to be brief, I just would like to say this. First, gender dysphoria and substance abuse are very different things. Do some research, find out. Second, maybe addicts don't face stigma where you live, but outside Neverland, they do. I've seen one grandfather, one father-in-law, one stepfather and a close friend go through it. Bear in mind that empathy for their attempts at recovery does not translate into automatic social acceptance. Third, if you still think there's no stigma, why else do employers perform tox screens on prospective candidates? Last, there are many resources that act as "Friends of Jill", this site being one of them. Another would be Tri-Ess. Don't discount local LGBT groups in your area as well. Coming out is as hard or as easy as you make it.

[Beverley Sims]

I think some need a friend like jill with different rules.
Jill would aid and guide the person to complete her journey safely and with a good outcome.
Jill meets Fred who wants to transition, she gets to know him and helps him feel less odd by helping him dress appropriately.
She assists in the man in a girls body by pointing out that he may not be successful especially that he is fifty and boobs may not come along.
If Fred is twenty maybe guide him to a gender therapist and later transition would be more successful.
Fred the crossdresser may only need guidance in dressing at home and if he is the bearded lady help him handle that problem by getting him to present more successfully. I could go on but you get the idea. Do not treat the disease but guide the progress in finding out about herself.

[Cassandra Lynn]

Thanx for that DebbieL, it was very well written.

And yeah the stigma is there, many see us (by the grace of God it is 3 yrs 2 months now....24 hrs at a time) simply as big losers for not being able to control the drinking.

But yeah, there are organizations out there for us TG folks too, plenty of support groups and meet ups as mentioned.....Tri-Ess and such.

Another common refrain in the rooms of AA..."it takes what it takes" to get treatment. The same could be said for us, but since the stakes aren't so high the vast majority prefer the relative safety of that proverbial closet.

I'll take anotther 24......keep coming back good folks.

[Angela Campbell]

Hi, I'm Ellen and I'm a crossdresser.

[harley47]

Thank you for taking the time to share such a thoughtful-and thorough- discussion of your approach to this topic. best wishes, harley

[Jenniferathome]

The big difference is that crossdressing isn't a "problem" like alcohol addiction so there is nothing from which to recover.

Well said, but, it's not just that. Alcohol is known by 100% of the population over the age of about 6. Kids know what beer is. Perhaps as much as 80% of the population doesn't even know what cross dressing is. We are a tiny, tiny minority

[kimdl93]

oh, I think that being a recovering alcoholic or substance abuser has its own stigmas. We aren't all that different. Of course, I've never attempted to present myself as a recovering CD or "former" transgendered person.

[Ceri Anne]

There is a Friends of Dorthy group for the LGBT family which we sort of fall under. Many cruise ships wil have Friends of Dorthy gatherings, and there are even special cruises where you can travel pretty the whole time (there will most likely be other non gay or cd people on too, but a large majority are "friends" I was on a normal cruise (lol at normal) last year and was visiting with a straight couple who accidentily booked a gay cruise the previous fall. They said there were hundreds of people going about cross dressed, and it was actually one of the funnest cruises they had been on. I havnt particpated yet, but have seen Friends of Dorthy events in other venues also. And, yes, I'm straight, but this is the group that most redily accepts Cd'rs. I like the friends of Jill idea though.

[Deedee Skyblue]

A lot of my friends stopped hanging with me when I stopped drinking. I started dating a hot girl and things were really going well, and I told her I was a recovering alcoholic and she dropped me, splat. (To be fair, she had divorced her ex-husband because of his drinking problem...). Going to AA and being a recovering alcoholic are not without social consequences.

Deedee