Full time tranny

[ameliabee]

Does age make a difference? For instance, do those who transition at puberty or even in their early 20s have it easier?

I suspect that it does I was speaking directly from my experience as a late transitioner and to other people considering a later transition. Transitioning young admittedly changes everything in regard to my premise.

I'm not sure about that, at that age you have to deal with your parents and school or college can be a hell. Of course HRT effects would surely be better, but it didn't change the months or years during transition.

So, yeah, transitioned at 20, and because I waited to go full-time until I was passing >99%, I really never had the whole issue of looking visibly trans.

Parents were the big issue. I just needed to be independent from them in order to go through with it, because my folks would have tried to stop me if they had the chance.

I can still go on and on about facing bullshit though. Grad school and being a teenage girl hormonally do not mix, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. Still upset that I had to resort to taking out student loans to afford SRS, but it makes more long-term financial sense to do it now and get on with life.

[kathtx]

Look, if you cannot be happy with what you have, nothing is gonna make it better. Your problems and insecurities are not gonna vanish just cause you get a new vajayjay. No, then you will find something else to say "If only". Anytime "there" becomes "here", you will just find a new "there" to wish for.

Exactly [plus extra characters to lengthen the message]

[Badtranny]

The point is, don't run out of cigarettes. I have done that and it really sucks.

I want everybody to know that I love this chick!

..omg not in THAT way. Sheesh, I'm not a lesbo or nothin' ;-)

[Jorja]

Being a woman is easy. Convincing others is the hard part.

[Saffron]

I don't care about others as long as they leave me in peace.

And I think the focus shouldn't be to be a woman but simply to be yourself.

Transition is only a way to fix a problem, it shouldn't be your main goal in life.

[Michelle.M]

Saffron, well said and succinctly stated! You've hit the nail right on the head.

[Lorileah]

Oh good God, what is the big deal about living as a woman anyways?

You get in free on ladies night?

Once in a while it IS annoying to be called "sir" and all that but one just has to get over it.

or "him" even by friends. Yeah the world does not stop. And since I don't try and squeak when I talk, those dang drive through cashiers always say "sir" You would think they would KNOW better.

LAdies lemme ask you this - suppose one day you woke up as this perfectly passable woman and all that crap, say you even became a GG - do you honestly think life would be so much more exciting?

Nope...maybe uh...busier

Look, if you cannot be happy with what you have, nothing is gonna make it better. Your problems and insecurities are not gonna vanish just cause you get a new vajayjay. No, then you will find something else to say "If only". Anytime "there" becomes "here", you will just find a new "there" to wish for.

dang, the magic organ won't save me? Thus, one reason I don't plan on getting surgery at my age. It would be like putting paint on an old barn. It looks nice but the building is still sagging. There are some here who don't understand that. Yeah, it is pretty and all but how long until I don't even notice it? I am extremely happy, usually, sometimes, often with my life right now. The major issue is getting others to quit trying to "make it better" when I like what I have.

[Nicole Erin]

You get in free on ladies night?

Yes I could if I wanted to go to some club or bar on "ladies" night.
Even if not, no big deal. I have yet to see a "lady" in a bar or club. Drunk or obnoxious "chicks" maybe.
Kind of like how one never sees a "gentleman" in a "gentleman's" club.

[Raquel June]

Melissa, I really don't see why I have to prove myself to you by posting photos - I've had photos on here before, and only recently deleted them, because I was actually getting fed up with this place and considered stopping posting,

It would give people a little more hope to read a thread like this and see that it is in fact pretty easy for some people. But you don't want to do that. You just want to criticize Melissa. So you're making her look right and you're making yourself look silly.

Sure, you don't have to prove yourself, but saying how passable you are then making excuses and refusing to even post a couple of your hand-picked best-case-scenario pics makes you sound like you're another trans girl in denial. And the bizarre tangent about "thought police" you switched to makes you sound insane.

I don't disagree with many of the points that other people have already made. However, I do want to interject a message that doesn't get made enough in my opinion. There is nothing wrong with being TG or TS. When TG and TS people start acting like this is true, maybe everyone else will start to believe it too.

I agree, and it's a point I often try to make myself. Mostly in the context of being offended that for many their goal is to transition and leave the support structure that helped them. Regardless, nobody passes all the time, so you're in a much better place mentally if you can accept your trans-ness.

But, we do have to understand that being an out-and-proud martyr is not for everyone. In the end, I want to be seen as a woman and respected, not seen as a gay guy in a dress and tolerated.

It's an interesting place to be at. Few of us would ever pass up a magical chance to be more "real" in any way, whether that was to be able to carry a child or just a more natural body. I would abandon being trans in a heartbeat. But none of us should be ashamed of being trans. I'm proud to be associated with the all the strength of my LGBT family. And I'll always hang out with my friends in the community any chance I get.

[kellycan27]

Exactly [plus extra characters to lengthen the message]

Sounds like what you and Nicole are are saying that there is no value to having SRS in order to help stem the issues of GID by having one's body congruent with their mind? Sorry, (Nicole), but this sounds more like sour grapes than anything else. Kind of like.. I have never heard anyone who can pass say that passing is overated, or people with money say that money in not important.

[Bree-asaurus]

But, we do have to understand that being an out-and-proud martyr is not for everyone. In the end, I want to be seen as a woman and respected, not seen as a gay guy in a dress and tolerated.

I have HUGE respect for those of us who go out and show the world that they are trans and normal like everyone else every day of their lives, whether they choose to or have to. It's those people who really push society forward. I think we all want to live normal, quiet lives. Some of us choose not to for the sake of progress and some of us can't because we don't pass well enough.

I don't deliberately hide who I am, but I also don't go out of my way to show it. I want to be a part of progress, but I also want to just live my life and not be bothered because I happen to be trans. Where I go from here, I don't know, but I help where I can for now, and that's usually by being there for other trans people who need support. I'm also starting to help out by talking with the local medical community as they are reaching out, wanting to know more about us and our experiences with doctors, clinics and hospitals.

[Rianna Humble]

So you're making her look right and you're making yourself look silly.
...
makes you sound insane.

I get really uncomfortable when I read another member putting someone down as "silly" and "insane" as a cop-out from reasoned debate.

Surely we must be able to string together one or two cogent arguments without resorting to ad-hominem attacks just because someone doesn't conform to what you want them to say.

[angpai30]

I have written so many replies to this thread, but just haven't been able to come up with something constructive to say. I agree that many of us tend to doze off and dream away on a white cloud hoping that one day everything will be in our grasp. Why bicker about it? we aren't getting any further to our goals of being accepted by bickering about the usefulness of either being or not being trans. If this thread constituted a solution to any sort of problem that the trans community may have other than pointing out the fact of the white cloud I would think that this was really an intelligent conversation. One in which I could enjoy participating in, but I can't enjoy participating in this thread because I feel that it is trannies bagging on trannies for doing the same exact thing that they are just maybe a little differently and probably stuck on the white cloud longer because reality hasn't slapped them in the face yet. You can't change a person by arguing with them or their own beliefs, but we all together can influence a positive solution if there is one we will find it if we only would work together. One thing I find different about women and trans is that women are willing to work together to accomplish even the tiniest goal, but trans women tend to fight about what is right and what is wrong and who to blame for their misfortune. If we truly believe ourselves to be women IMO we would start doing what GG's do; work together to accomplish even the tinniest goal and quit trying to bring each other down.

Angela

[Badtranny]

If we truly believe ourselves to be women IMO we would start doing what GG's do; work together to accomplish even the tinniest goal and quit trying to bring each other down.

Well Angela, I don't live my life based on "what GG's do". GG's are not all that impressive to me by simple virtue of them being born as women. I love my girls but just being born a woman ain't enough to get into my club if you know what I mean. There is nothing special about women, and since I'm not even sexually attracted to them, the almighty vajeen holds no power over me. ;-)

No if you want to be in "my show" you need to be a witty, brave and hyper intelligent chick, and at LEAST 12 of the broads in this thread are people I consider actual friends. Forum friends some of them but friends nonetheless. I respect them and follow their posts because I find them interesting. I feel pretty comfortable in saying that all 12 of them would say the same about me. We are compatriots, fellow travelers, even family, as it were so what you characterize as bickering, I call a lively discussion.

The TS girls generally have a lot more in common than the CD girls do. Almost every girl in this thread is actually transitioning or has transitioned so that puts us all in a pretty tiny group comparatively. because we are all going through the same thing, most of us will have similar feelings about any given topic on transition. Since transition is such an emotional undertaking, there will likely be plenty of conversations that have emotional undertones. We disagree on stuff sometimes. So what? This group is by and large a pretty tough bunch so I find your call for "working together" to be a bit cloying and definitely out of place on this particular thread.

If you can't have pointed discussions in a discussion forum, then where? Nobody uses Usenet anymore. :-(

[ReineD]

Angela, I think that Misty tried to do just that ... be realistic about what to expect and I can't think of anything that is kinder, in the long run, than the truth. In fact, this is what has formed the basis of my chosen friendships with women, all my life. I want a friend who will tell me what she thinks, and who will be willing to point out to me something that I may not be able to see because I am mired in the middle of a difficult situation. The last thing I want is a friend who will say, "Yes dear, you're right and all the people who are causing you grief are wrong". How will I grow if I surround myself with sycophants?

[Bree-asaurus]

Well Angela, I don't live my life based on "what GG's do". GG's are not all that impressive to me by simple virtue of them being born as women. I love my girls but just being born a woman ain't enough to get into my club if you know what I mean. There is nothing special about women, and since I'm not even sexually attracted to them, the almighty vajeen holds no power over me. ;-)

Yeah. Who was it that said "Women aren't women anymore" recently? Oh yeah! A WOMAN! Those GG's sure know how to stick together :P All humans are flawed. Being a GG, GM, FTM, MTF, OMG, LOL, WTF doesn't mean squat!

[kathtx]

Sounds like what you and Nicole are are saying that there is no value to having SRS in order to help stem the issues of GID by having one's body congruent with their mind?

I can't speak for Nicole, but as for me that's not quite what I'm trying to say. Let me try to summarize my points more clearly.

First: anyone contemplating SRS (or any other step towards transition) needs to think honestly about what problems it will and will not solve. Transition with SRS or just hormones or nothing at all, or pass or not, full-time or part-time, whatever, we need to learn to live well and to deal with problems as they come instead of living in "if only" fantasies.

Second: a common theme around here is that when we come to terms with the realization we're TS, we immediately start thinking of SRS and full-time transition as The Goal. I've been there, thought that way. For some of us, transition is certainly the right path, but maybe not for all of us. Some talk about feeling it was a choice between transition and suicide, and I've been there, but I don't feel that way now. Does that mean I'm not "really" TS, that I'm not gender dysphoric? Hell, I don't know. Maybe it means I'm less gender dysphoric than you or others, or just that the circumstances of my life are such that it feels possible for me to muddle through without full-time transition. I can imagine changes in my circumstances that might make it feel more imperative to transition. For instance, were I single I'd be totally discouraged by the prospects of finding another gay woman to date without transitioning (and just to be clear, even with transition I'd not expect women to be throwing themselves at me because of my irresistible beauty. I'd just be another middle-aged lesbian, but a middle-aged lesbian with body and mind aligned better than now.). But as things are now, things are OK without transition. Not perfect, but livable. We each need to figure out what degree of transition works for each of us as individuals.

[kellycan27]

I can't speak for Nicole, but as for me that's not quite what I'm trying to say. Let me try to summarize my points more clearly.

First: anyone contemplating SRS (or any other step towards transition) needs to think honestly about what problems it will and will not solve. Transition with SRS or just hormones or nothing at all, or pass or not, full-time or part-time, whatever, we need to learn to live well and to deal with problems as they come instead of living in "if only" fantasies.

Second: a common theme around here is that when we come to terms with the realization we're TS, we immediately start thinking of SRS and full-time transition as The Goal. I've been there, thought that way. For some of us, transition is certainly the right path, but maybe not for all of us. Some talk about feeling it was a choice between transition and suicide, and I've been there, but I don't feel that way now. Does that mean I'm not "really" TS, that I'm not gender dysphoric? Hell, I don't know. Maybe it means I'm less gender dysphoric than you or others, or just that the circumstances of my life are such that it feels possible for me to muddle through without full-time transition. I can imagine changes in my circumstances that might make it feel more imperative to transition. For instance, were I single I'd be totally discouraged by the prospects of finding another gay woman to date without transitioning (and just to be clear, even with transition I'd not expect women to be throwing themselves at me because of my irresistible beauty. I'd just be another middle-aged lesbian, but a middle-aged lesbian with body and mind aligned better than now.). But as things are now, things are OK without transition. Not perfect, but livable. We each need to figure out what degree of transition works for each of us as individuals.

Sorry .. I guess that when you said "exactly" I took it to mean that you agreed with Nicole. I have no qualms with someone who transitions to what ever degree that works for them, I just disagree when someone decides that other people should just "suck it up" because they feel the need to transition to a different degree... this is in essence what nicole is saying, and you agreed.."exactly"

[Rianna Humble]

a common theme around here is that when we come to terms with the realization we're TS, we immediately start thinking of SRS and full-time transition as The Goal.

I must read a different version of this forum to you and the others who accuse us of pushing transition and GCS as the only options because I have not seen any of the most regular contributors say that ever.

Neither transition nor GCS is commonly spoken of as "The Goal", but they are often spoken of as essential steps for those who can't avoid transition and who seek congruity between body and being.

Neither can I agree when you talk about "degrees of transition" since to me that term makes no sense - transition takes you on a path from one state of being towards another. Those of us who post regularly here and either are in transition (e.g. me) or have transitioned frequently advise people not to embark upon transition unless they absolutely need to.

Various regimes short of transition can be and are used by people who for whatever reason don't need to transition but do need to contain their Gender Dysphoria, and we regularly encourage members who are considering such a path.

Some talk about feeling it was a choice between transition and suicide, and I've been there, but I don't feel that way now.

I'm glad you found a third option, but for many of us that third option just was not there. It was not there for me, but I decided there was more future in living than in dying. Still and withall, I do not encourage someone to rush headlong into transition unless they need to.

[Nicole Erin]

I just disagree when someone decides that other people should just "suck it up" because they feel the need to transition to a different degree... this is in essence what nicole is saying, and you agreed.."exactly"

We do as much as we can but if someone say like me doesn't have the funds for surgeries or whatever, there is no use sitting around worrying about it.

BadTranny - with us Ts having more in common than the CD's, that I disagree on. How many threads in the CD section does one see where they bicker non-stop about who the REAL CDs are or how someone is better off cause they CD full time instead of just wear panties to work?

Being a "True TS". I guess I am out of that category cause i don't sit around worrying about my "goods" or run home crying when I get called "sir".

For those blessed enough to afford SRS or whatever, I wonder then - if you could NOT afford it and had to get thru life and transition best you could the way some of us do, how would you fare? Would you be able to STILL walk tall and proud and say "This is who I am, take it or leave it"?
I think a lot of TS out there never really needed an orchi to begin with.

OH and about The Goal - how about if people set a goal to live their lives? I set that as MY goal after divorce and it is working out well

[kathtx]

Sorry .. I guess that when you said "exactly" I took it to mean that you agreed with Nicole. I have no qualms with someone who transitions to what ever degree that works for them, I just disagree when someone decides that other people should just "suck it up" because they feel the need to transition to a different degree... this is in essence what nicole is saying, and you agreed.."exactly"

I guess I didn't (and still don't) read Nicole's final paragraph as "suck it up," but as "don't expect transition to be a silver bullet to fix everything".

I must read a different version of this forum to you and the others who accuse us of pushing transition and GCS as the only options because I have not seen any of the most regular contributors say that ever.

Not accusing anyone of pushing transition, and I agree it's not pushed by the regulars. In fact, quite the opposite, since I thanked the OP for providing a reality check on transition. Here's how I read the discussion:

[various full time post-transition people like yourself]: transition won't solve all your problems, and post-transition life won't be a cakewalk.
[me]: Yay for what they just said. And if you find yourself hesitating, that's OK. Some of us get by and live with gender dysphoria without transitioning.

My posts were meant for those who are in the early stage of "OMG I realize I'm not just a CD, I'm TS and I've got to start transitioning right now."

It's kind of surreal to be getting criticized for disagreeing with you when I am in fact agreeing, but hey, that's the internet.

Neither can I agree when you talk about "degrees of transition" since to me that term makes no sense - transition takes you on a path from one state of being towards another.

Here's where I do disagree with you. Since there are a number of steps in transition (hair removal, hormones, SRS) and modes of living (part-time & out to some, full-time & out to all) and not everyone does all these steps, I think it makes perfect sense to talk about degrees of transition. Someone who intentionally *stops* at hormones is in a different stage than someone who proceeds to SRS, who is in a different stage from someone who lives outwardly in one gender at home and with friends but in another gender at work.

Those of us who post regularly here and either are in transition (e.g. me) or have transitioned frequently advise people not to embark upon transition unless they absolutely need to.

I hope it's clear that I'm aware of that, and I thank you for that.

I'm glad you found a third option, but for many of us that third option just was not there. It was not there for me, but I decided there was more future in living than in dying. Still and withall, I do not encourage someone to rush headlong into transition unless they need to.

Thanks. And I'm glad you were able to transition, and I hope you know that my explaining that I could find a third way was not at all meant to say that you could have/should have found such a path yourself. I'm just trying to say that we each need to find our own way, and we won't all go the same way. And that statement isn't meant as criticism of those who fully transition, but reassurance for those who are wondering "I'm TS, what the hell do I do now?"

[Pamela Kay]

I cannot express the respect and admiration I feel for my friends and fellow transitioners on this site.

I came here over a year ago stressed and afraid of what was happening to me and how it would affect my life. I lurked for a long time before posting and then didn't join the Safe Haven section until I was sure I was going to transition. The help and advice I received here has given me the knowledge and courage I needed to be myself and to move forward. The advice to only transition if you have to is some of the most sound advice you will ever hear. Everyone says to be prepared to loose everything if you transition and that is sound advice. I haven't lost everything and everyone and my transtion both at home and at work has gone better than I could have expected even though there has been loss. Most of the money and possesions I had aquired over the last 30 years have been traded to pay for FFS and settle with my soon to be ex-wife. We are still friends and my son has just started to trade emails with me from time to time.

To quote a friend I was so deep in the closet that I didn't know I was in the closet. Transition makes you reexamine who you are and what you believe. I've only been full time for 7 weeks so far but I'm still wrestling with some major issues that I had always thought I was sure about. You live your life a certain way for so long then come to the realization that you are transexual and you start looking at other feelings and beliefs that you had never questioned with an open mind. If I was wrong about that aspect of who I am then what else have I been wrong about? It also seems that people that have known and respected you all your life think that your morals and ethics get tossed out the window when you transition and even if you do gain some back it will never be the same.

Transition may have given me peace in some parts of my life but it has also raised even more questions to think about and find answers for. As if learning to be a woman wasn't enough.

We all have to travel the path of transition that works best for us. I guess you could say it's the most rewarding trip through HELL you will ever take!

I don't think it makes much difference if it's tranwomen or GG's, we all have bad days and problems with each other from time to time. I think it's more personalities than whether you are male, female, trans, or whatever. I have received a ton of help from GG's and a lot of support from my trans friends as well, both at home and here. Most guy's I know though are accepting at best and ignore you more likely than not.

[Jorja]

It also seems that people that have known and respected you all your life think that your morals and ethics get tossed out the window when you transition and even if you do gain some back it will never be the same.

Pam, you are only 7 weeks into full time. I am 25 years into full time. Please understand it takes time, work from both sides, and understanding to regain lost relationships. I lost everyone I knew prior to transition. Today, all but one of those people are back in my life. You are right, those relationships can never be the same. This is because you are a different person. Allow me to rephrase that. You are a new person to them. There are different dynamics to the new relationship. I have found most of my relationships to be even better now than they ever were. Yes, there will be a few who will not come around. Maybe they are just not worth associating with. That is life.

[Nicole Erin]

Yeah Pam, there are gonna be some weird adjustments at first. You tend to get "settled in" though and all is well.

[Rianna Humble]

Not accusing anyone of pushing transition, and I agree it's not pushed by the regulars. In fact, quite the opposite, since I thanked the OP for providing a reality check on transition.

I apologise for misinterpreting your words. Somehow I missed reading your first post in this thread

That said, although you didn't say what I wrongly thought you were saying, there are too many who do. It is fairly easy to find where just about all of the current regular TS contributors have expressed support for people in a similar situation to yours where AIUI you had to put the needs of your wife above your own and in doing so managed to find a way to contain your gender dysphoria.