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Thread: The cross dressers fashion dilemma

  1. #76
    Isn't Life Grand? AllieSF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReineD View Post
    The basis for my own argument (not sure about other people) is how OTHERS (generally) view men, women, AND CDers who dress inappropriately for their ages, body types, or the venue. Not just CDers. I think this is what Jennifer was getting at in her OP, unless I misread it. It has nothing to do with how individuals choose to dress based on what makes them feel good. I for one believe that everyone has the right to dress the way they want to. BUT, if someone goes out in the mainstream dressed way too young for his/her age and/or body type, or in clothing that is sexually inappropriate for the venue, and she is stared at, she must not mistake those stares for admiration. Generally speaking. This goes for CDers AND GGs, and also men, but I think to a lesser degree.

    I know that we could put 100 pictures up of both CDers and GGs in various outfits, and if we each voted on what was tacky or not there would be differences of opinion. But, for many of those pics, there would be no argument and this would likely be skirts that are way too short, heels that are way too high, too much skin showing, etc, on someone who is older, or heavier, and who is dressing for a mainstream venue and not a nightclub. These things are difficult to specify using words in posts (as you say, how does anyone decide how short is too short since there are several things in the overall appearance that put together, give the impression of tacky), but it is something that most people just know when they see it.

    Last, it is debatable as to whether the CDers who present as men in drag, or who present an overly sexualized/stereotypical version of female, adversely affect those who wish to just blend and not try to call attention to themselves, other than be respected as feminine beings. I think we'd have to take a large survey among the muggles and ask them if they judge each CDer they see on her own merit, or if they look at the more outlandish presentations and judge everyone based on that. I tend to think that each person is viewed based on her own presentation and her own merit, and not based on what others do.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    There's another discussion beginning in this thread about CDers who go out dressed as women but who present as men. I think this is a fascinating topic. It is debatable, however, whether these CDers see themselves as male-to-female crossdressers (as MonctonGirl asks), or if they see themselves as genderqueer (bigender or androgyne ... whatever term might be used), or if they are feminine men who want to redefine men's clothing styles to allow for male feminine expression. Likely all three motives are true depending on the individual. As interesting as this topic is and as much as I enjoy following the discussion, I'd love to see it in another thread since I think it falls outside of Jennifer's scope? I think a lot more people would participate in the discussion if it were in its own thread.
    I understand what you are saying Reine and I also prefer people to dress "better" sometimes. However, when someone here talks negatively about that harried housewife trying to fit in some last minute shopping during a very busy errand day and she happens to be wearing her old velvet sweat pants, that poster will get hammered and rightfully so. When the poster suggests, even politely, that dressing a bit better to go out would be better, again hammered. Now, we have a similar situation when a crossdresser goes out and doesn't dress as others, and maybe even myself sometimes, consider to be appropriate. The complainer doesn't get hammered/criticized for complaining, it is the CD because they dressed inappropriately based on someone else's standards. For both cases, GG's and CD's, let them dress as they want and let them deal with the consequences of their outfit choices. Why criticize them, GG's or MtF CD's, and have these threads about dressing appropriately when out? If someone asks for an opinion, then by all means opine. I do that too suggesting that they go out to fit in rather than stand out, especially when it is in the beginning when they are trying to get enough confidence to go out in the fit place. Once they gain the confidence, then dress as you wish.

    I like your last sentence, "I tend to think that each person is viewed based on her own presentation and her own merit, and not based on what others do." I understand that to mean that if someone was dressed inappropriately, acted appropriately and maybe even had some good interaction with that person in your sentence, then that person would look beyond the outside and into the inner being and probably surmise, "Here is a nice person dressed oddly" and then move on with their own life. I also like what Wildaboutheels says, "Wear what you want and treat people with courtesy and respect and you are likely to never have any problem at all." That is what I do and I have almost 100% success with that, and I vary my looks sometimes all over the place within my own dress appropriately guidelines, even when said guidelines may be far outside someone else's limits.

    So, I am not asking everyone to like what they see others do, but to readily grant them the liberty to dress as they please and to please quit complaining about it and to quit directly or indirectly trying to coerce them into following their own personal standards.

  2. #77
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    You are absolutley correct. If your in your home, dress the way you want, but when your in public you dress appropriatly.

  3. #78
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    at the end of this debate the only thing that holds truth is the fact that we are judging each other based on clothing.

    its not about what we wear its about our demeanor.

    -Donni-

  4. #79
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllieSF View Post
    I like your last sentence, "I tend to think that each person is viewed based on her own presentation and her own merit, and not based on what others do." I understand that to mean that if someone was dressed inappropriately, acted appropriately and maybe even had some good interaction with that person in your sentence, then that person would look beyond the outside and into the inner being and probably surmise, "Here is a nice person dressed oddly" and then move on with their own life.
    No, I meant that if the average person sees a fetishy looking CDer, he or she will not transfer the opinion that *all* CDers must be perverts, to someone whom they meet like my SO, who dresses to blend into the mainstream. But, I may be wrong about this, I just don't know.

    Quote Originally Posted by AllieSF View Post
    However, when someone here talks negatively about that harried housewife trying to fit in some last minute shopping during a very busy errand day and she happens to be wearing her old velvet sweat pants, that poster will get hammered and rightfully so. When the poster suggests, even politely, that dressing a bit better to go out would be better, again hammered. Now, we have a similar situation when a crossdresser goes out and doesn't dress as others, and maybe even myself sometimes, consider to be appropriate. The complainer doesn't get hammered/criticized for complaining, it is the CD because they dressed inappropriately based on someone else's standards.
    OK, I see where this is coming from. But, I don't think we can compare the poorly dressed GG to the over-the-top CD, for several reasons:

    The poorly dressed GG doesn't give the impression that she is a fetishist. Also, there is no fear that the poorly dressed GG reflects negatively on all GGs, simply because everyone knows and understands that there is a wide variety of GGs. But, this is not the case with CDers. We are just coming out of an age where by and large, CDers were considered Perverts with a capital "P". Although this is beginning to change, there still remains stigma in several pockets of our society (maybe not where you live), there are still fathers who would not want you to marry their daughters, there are still GGs who want nothing to do with this, there are still employers who do not want to deal with this, and so I can see why some members here are anxious to not be associated with CDers who sexualize the CDing in the mainstream public (not nightclubs).

    Quote Originally Posted by AllieSF View Post
    For both cases, GG's and CD's, let them dress as they want and let them deal with the consequences of their outfit choices.
    Absolutely, and this does happen. People do go out dressed as they will, and deal with people's reactions. But a twist to the discussion that is a tangent from your point above, is that a GG who goes out dressed in sweats with no makeup, is not stared at. She KNOWS that she is not turning heads, lol, nor does she care about turning heads. She just wants to do her grocery shopping and go home. She's not trying to be a sex-pot. But, a CDer who is dressed inappropriately for his/her age, body type, or for the venue might notice that s/he gets stared at, and she may mistake this for admiration, while the people who are looking at her may be thinking entirely different things. I, for one, would want a reality check from my friends on my appearance.


    EDIT - I've just re-read my post and realize that I used a term liberally that makes many people cringe here including me and my SO, the "P" word. I hope you all know that I am not describing how I feel, but rather how many people feel, who know little about transness. As unpleasant as this is, the DSM is just being changed NOW, to remove the paraphilic (fetish, aka pervert) association with Gender Dysphoria, in fact, they are finally going to stop calling it a psychological disorder. But, there is still a ways to go before the world will look at cross-gender expression as being just normal, like we do here.
    Last edited by ReineD; 12-13-2012 at 09:36 PM.
    Reine

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