Are you CD or Transgender or both?

[Marleena]

There have been a few threads recently where CDers adamantly refuse to be thought of as transgender. So at what point can we call a CDer transgender if ever?

Some cases I think are clear cut. Fetish dressers should be called Cders as well as men that only care to wear womens clothes and not emulate. When the makeup and wig and clothes go on to look as feminine as possible is that the clue they are transgender? Or is it something else?

I'm just curious as how one decides the difference if there is one. Is it a personal choice?


Ohhh and don't get mad at me I'll just call you by your username so no labels are used anyways.

[Angela Campbell]

This is what Wikipedia says

Transgender is the state of one's gender identity (self-identification as woman, man, neither or both) not matching one's assigned sex (identification by others as male, female or intersex based on physical/genetic sex)

So I guess this applies to me. If you were born a male but feel like you are female...then you are TG

I also dress as a woman and I was born a male so I am also a CD

Another thing to keep in mind is crossdressing is an action and does not imply any motives. TG is what you are, not what you do.

[Ms. Laura]

I'm there with you, anxiously awaiting the answer because I don't know. It must come down to motivation?? Presumably, emulation would go along with a gender identity "thing" but not necessarily. I suppose you might just have a sort of cosplay mentality and like to emulate a female.

[Laura912]

I am a CD who is transgendered at times and who does not care about labels and will be the first to quote Popeye, "I yam what I yam." And as Lilly Tomlinson said in her role, "and that's the truth!! Phtbllt!!!

[celeste26]

I have come to understand the term Transgender as an umbrella term covering all types of activities whereas CD, and TS are more specific terms explaining the activity and their motivations.

[Jenniferathome]

Marleena, I have no confusion about what gender I am, even in a wig and forms and makeup, etc. I'm a man and don't want to be anything different than that. I'm a cross dresser and not transgender.

[Marleena]

I have come to understand the term Transgender as an umbrella term covering all types of activities whereas CD, and TS are more specific terms explaining the activity and their motivations.

That's the way I see it too Celeste but quite a few of the CDers don't like being called TG. They don't want to be under the umbrella.

I know I opened a can of worms but I think it's time to hear reasoning why being called TG is offensive.

[julie marie1]

For me when the wig and makeup go on it is strictly because I do not like to do things halfway. If I am going to put on the clothes and walk in public dressed, I want people to think (at least at first glance) that they see a women. I like long nails and polish and 3" heels (not actually really good for my height, but I am definitely not transgender, I am heterosexual CD all the way.

[ReineD]

Different people use different words to describe the same condition. In other words, you might feel just as compelled to express Marleena, as Jennifer feels compelled to express Jennifer, although Jennifer sees himself as a man (crossdresser) whereas you see yourself as a woman (transsexual). My SO feels equally compelled to be herself yet s/he says s/he is dual-gender or gender non-conforming, which others might mistake to mean "transgender" (somehow a cross between CD and TS ). So if all three of you feel wonderful and comfortable when you dress, and you all dress at about the same frequency, and not one of you is near suicidal for the way that you live your lives, what's the difference between you?

You'll never get an agreement on the terms since there is no way to measure how "gendered" people feel.

And in terms of pure terminology, even the media gets it mixed up. They use "transgender" when describing transsexual children who will eventually transition, because they don't want to use a word that has "sex" in it.

Edit -
As far as I'm concerned, there are two kinds of people. Those who do not cross ANY gender boundaries in any way because they are NOT interested, and those who do, to widely varying degrees and for multiple reasons. The second group is differentiated from the first by using the term "transgender", even if individuals in this group identify purely as men or women. Within the second group, there are additional terms that people can use to differentiate themselves from one another in terms of intensitiy or degree of gender dysphoria, such as CD, TS, DQ, and a slew of others.

[ClaudineD]

Clearly by the Wikipedia definition I would be transgenedered.... but then I didn't need a book to tell me that!! LOL

[Marleena]

Different people use different words to describe the same condition. In other words, you might feel just as compelled to express Marleena, as Jennifer feels compelled to express Jennifer, although Jennifer sees himself as a man (crossdresser) whereas you see yourself as a woman (transsexual). My SO feels equally compelled to be herself yet s/he says s/he is dual-gender or gender non-conforming, which others might mistake to mean "transgender" (somehow a cross between CD and TS ). So if all three of you feel wonderful and comfortable when you dress, and you all dress at about the same frequency, and not one of you is near suicidal for the way that you live your lives, what's the difference between you?

You'll never get an agreement on the terms since there is no way to measure how "gendered" people feel.


And in terms of pure terminology, even the media gets it mixed up. They use "transgender" when describing transsexual children who will eventually transition, because they don't want to use a word that has "sex" in it.

So it comes down to personal preference then right?

There is no clear cut answer?

[Raychel]

There have been a few threads recently where CDers adamantly refuse to be thought of as transgender. So at what point can we call a CDer transgender if ever?

Some cases I think are clear cut. Fetish dressers should be called Cders as well as men that only care to wear womens clothes and not emulate. When the makeup and wig and clothes go on to look as feminine as possible is that the clue they are transgender? Or is it something else?

I'm just curious as how one decides the difference if there is one. Is it a personal choice?


Ohhh and don't get mad at me I'll just call you by your username so no labels are used anyways.

Fetish dressers should be called Cders
Cders as well as men that only care to wear womens clothes and not emulate
When the makeup and wig and clothes go on to look as feminine as possible is that the clue they are transgender? Or is it something else?

So I am just a CDer then, Which is what I always really thought and felt.
I really have no desire for the wig, makeup or to emulate a woman in any way, Just like the clothes

[Julie Denier]

Marleena, I have no confusion about what gender I am, even in a wig and forms and makeup, etc. I'm a man and don't want to be anything different than that. I'm a cross dresser and not transgender.

For me when the wig and makeup go on it is strictly because I do not like to do things halfway. ... I am heterosexual CD all the way.

These are my sentiments as well, as further summed up in my signature -- I love dressing up and I love the illusion I create, but I'm male at heart and love being a guy.

[Suzy Parker]

I Yam What I Yam And That's All What I Yam, I Yam Suzy The Crossdresser Man.

[Courtney_Glenn]

I consider myself bigender. I'm not a fan of labels....but if any were to fit me, it would be that one.

[Nanaya]

I'm just a crossdresser. I only wear the clothes for the sake of wearing them. I do want to look as beautiful as possible. Not necessarily feminine, though.

[Dana L]

Good point! I myself feel as if I'm CD, although I've always felt I should have been a woman, so that would be TG. I live my life in a male role as being a father a husband and a man that works in the trades. I keep my hair long and I love everthing about being female from the shoes to the make up to the nails to the clothes, did I mention shoes. I have been on HRT and it has definatly helped with giving me a more feminine figure and softer skin not to mention a feeling of calm. I had to back off because I was getting to a point where it was hard to hide in a male role. My wife is totaly accepting of this but still want's to be married to a man. Although I would never consider SRS it wouldn't be all bad if I woke up one morning and my male genitalia was gone. CDing is a stress reliver. I feel at peace with myself when I'm dressed and I wish society would be understanding enough of us to look at CDing as an acceptable form of our self expression, no different than wearing our favorite team's jersey on game day.

[ReineD]

So it comes down to personal preference then right?

There is no clear cut answer?

Sure, if someone dresses part-time and are otherwise engaged in their lives, they dress part-time, whether they call themselves CD, TS, TG, bigender, dualgender, inbetweener, middlepather, etc. People find their levels.

There is only one clear cut answer, in my view, and this is someone's willingness to continue to live as a male vs transitioning and living full time. If it becomes unbearable to continue to live in the male gender, and if living full time including legal name change relieves the gender dysphoria ... (as opposed to waking up after SRS and going ballistic like a patient did at Dr. Brassard's, or living as a woman for awhile and then going back to male or inbetween) ... then you can safely say that the person had gender dysphoria severe enough to change her birth-sex (transsexual) in order to match her brain-gender. I believe that a person can change their birth-sex though sufficient doses of both HRT and adrogen-blockers, without necessarily undergoing SRS, especially if they cannot do so for health or financial reasons, or old age. But at that point, the testicles and penis would have withered away, and again, they need to be living full time with a legal name change in order to call themselves transwomen. IMO. This keeps things simple, so bottom line it is about full vs. part-time.

If you were to ask me about birth males who are on HRT to relieve the dysphoria, but who continue to live as men to their families, friends, and at work, then Marleena I don't have an answer. There are just too many variables including the strength of the hormones and androgen-blockers to pigeonhole such people under any one term.

[AllieSF]

Yes Marleena, I agree with you that there is no real correct answer. If I was in the UK, according to some of our members there, it would not be out of place to call me a transvestite, which is the Latin word for crossdresser and is a term based on my experience that also has a somewhat negative connotation associated with it. I like the transgender definition that means all of us, including all types of CD's, fetish to prim and proper going out all the time. Since we are a forum made up primarily of men who like to dress in some way as women, and from many different countries, I do not believe that we will ever get a true consensus on who is what. To me it really doesn't matter. Being mislabeled also does not bother me as long as it is not done to be mean. I feel comfortable about and with myself, so I am less sensitive than others may be. Someone in one of those recent threads that you mentioned also said that they usually give a brief description of what they mean when they use that term. I usually do that when referencing TG. I have no problem with being called either a CD or TG, and actually prefer to call myself a transgendered individual, one who likes to crossdress. For whatever reason, to me the word crossdresser seems to be on a lower rung on that non-existent ladder. I like being a step above that, kinda like the way that I like to dress, one step above the rest! Now is that vanity or what? Ooops, I do not want to start another thread topic within this one!

The interesting thing about some people's position is that they seem to fear being included in a classification that they do not like. Hell, we all have many classifications from man, to worker, to comic, to professional, to crossdresser to transgendered, to whatever. So, having many classifications or labels is really no big deal.

[Jessica Who]

I identify as transgender but don't like using a lot of labels

[DebbieL]

There have been a few threads recently where CDers adamantly refuse to be thought of as transgender. So at what point can we call a CDer transgender if ever?

Transgender is a very broad term see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender

Some cases I think are clear cut. Fetish dressers should be called Cders as well as men that only care to wear womens clothes and not emulate.

Fetish dressers and transvestites tend to dress primarily for sexual pleasure. Often, they have no desire to present as a woman, and don't want to go out in public. Some estimates suggest that as many as 1 in 4 men has engaged in such behavior more than once. Crossdressers and transsexuals may be sexually aroused at times when they are dressed, but their interests go beyond that into a deeper emotional need - a desire to present as a female. A transsexual is a "girl trapped in a boys body" or a "boy trapped in a girls body".

Harry Benjamin and a number of others have attempted various methods of defining and diagnosing. Often, the lines are blurry and shifty. For example, a transsexual may first consider himself a transvestite, then a cross-dresser, and then finally admit that he has always felt that he should be a woman, admitting he was transsexual. Conversely, many who consider themselves transsexual find that when they are required to life full time as women, getting Real Life Experience (RLE), they begin to realize that being a woman has costs and consequences they are unwilling to accept, and begin to consider themselves cross-dressers.

Transsexuals often find themselves in conflict with their birth gender at a very young age. Often as young as 3-4 years old, they will often experience persecution at around age 5 or 6 when they are called "Sissy" and are violently attacked as a result of being labeled. In spite of this clear and present danger, the MtF transsexuals still consider themselves to be girls or females. In many cases, once they became aware that they are males and not only cannot avoid becoming men, they become suicidal. Many MtF transsexuals will attempt to kill themselves as they enter puberty. Estimates are that less than half of all transsexuals - left untreated and unsupported, will be dead before they were age 30. For religious, financial, or social reasons, they will try to live as males, even getting married and having children, but in high school, college, and as a parent, the transsexual will usually gravitate toward groups of women.

Girls who quickly identify as tom-boys get similar harassment, but more often, they are more accepted by the boys because they are as physical and not only willing to fight, but often win the fights. Girls who are MtF are more willing to cope with puberty by dressing in baggy masculine clothing, doing other things to be gender ambiguous, but may still wish to have their breasts removed, to get testosterone, and to be "the man" in relationships.

Sexuality is unrelated to gender identity. Transsexuals may prefer same sex partners all the time, or only when they are presenting as the opposite sex.

When the makeup and wig and clothes go on to look as feminine as possible is that the clue they are transgender? Or is it something else?

No. A transvestite only wants to wear the clothes. A cross-dresser wants to present as a woman. A transsexual wants to LIVE as a woman.

I'm just curious as how one decides the difference if there is one.

This has been a problem for the medical profession since the transsexual syndrome was first documented in the late 1950s. Prior to Christine Jorgensen, gender reassignment surgery was more fantasy than even a possibility. The Jorgensen operation would be considered butchery today. Her "operation" was more like castration, her inversion was small, and sensations were gone.

There were Hermaphrodites who clearly showed gender ambiguity, some having organs of both genders, others being neither gender.

One thing they have found is that many, but not all, transsexuals typically seem to have had less testosterone during the first trimester. In December 2012, scientists discovered that many transsexuals had a genetic marker that prevented them from processing testosterone during this period. The actual causes are still unclear. There are easy ways to know if you had low-T during this period - if your index finger is longer than your ring finger, for example. Many transsexuals will also show a much smaller limbic node, making them less inclined to violence. Women also have a smaller limbic node. This may have evolved because women had to nurse and nurture children and being too violent might cause a mother to kill her own young. Female mammals are less likely to fight, but more likely to became extremely violent when cornered and/or protecting her young. Males, on the other hand, routinely compete and "fight" each other for territory and breeding rights.

There seems to be similar patterns with FtM transsexuals. These "trans-men" tend to have indicators of higher testosterone. Many even produce testosterone as they get older, enough to offset their estrogen levels to a certain amount. They also have larger limbic nodes.

Given the extremely high mortality rate of transsexuals, medical practitioners have shifted over the last 40 years from trying to suppress the transsexual urge using electroshock, drugs, and lobotomies, to now considering it UNETHICAL to try and convince a transsexual to accept their birth gender.

[Angela Campbell]

Debbie I think you have part of that wrong. Transvestite and crossdresser are the same thing. Many crossdressers only wear the clothes. trans = from one to another vest = clothing therefore transvestite is crossdresser.


transgender trans = from one to another gender = whether masculine or feminine so transgender is from one gender to the other.

[TGMarla]

I once struggled mightily with questions like this one. I wondered if I was really transexual, and only crossdressing to keep the peace in my head. But as time has gone by, I've come to realize that I'm not transexual, and that although I love "being" a woman, I love it for only a few hours at a time. I've come now to accept that I'm a lot less TG than I thought I was, despite the letters at the front of my screen name. I'm a crossdresser through and through, but I'm not cloudy on my gender status anymore. "Transgender" may be an umbrella term under which I fit as a crossdresser, but it means nothing more than that to me anymore.

[Debra Russell]

... don't know... don't care..tired thinking about it -- just go with it suits me ............................Debra

[Monicamaryjay]

I have wondered about this as well. When I was younger and dressed up, I was really quite confused. As I became older I tried to take on the masculine role to some degree, but I was always very sensitive and women knew this. I did not hide it. I thought that the desires to express femininity were latent bisexual feelings, which I did come to admit and accept...but that wasn't and isn't the whole story.

I was not ready for the "transgender" term when I began crossdressing much frequently several months ago.
I have come to understand my inner being and now I welcome my female side. Now I can say, Yes, I am transgendered... It feels good just to let it out.
I do prefer to express myself as a woman, although I do not want to augment my body or take hormones. I like my body the way it is.

It would be such a wonderful thing to feel free enough to express ourselves en femme openly anytime, anywhere.
I am looking forward to the summer and a trip to the big city for adventure and maybe a little crossdressing stroll.
Monica