I need info.

[aalynn88]

Dear Kathryn Martin. Maybe, just maybe, I suffer from the same medical condition. Maybe, just maybe, I'm so uninformed about all this that although I now see I worded my question wrong, I came here looking for some answers and maybe, just maybe, I'm afraid of the negative side-effects of hormone therapy and wonder what good it does. Look, I sincerely don't mean to make ANYONE sick or degrade ANYONE. I'm just a kind and loving person who is tolerant and loving to even a person like yourself. I can't make anyone sick unless they are sick to begin with. Believe it or not but I love you and wish only the best for you but it is wrong to attack someone as you just did myself. You hurt my feelings.

Anyway, from what I understand after reading these post, aside from Im an idiot and make people sick, is that I need the hormones because you lose male libido anyway with surgery so you need some female libidiousness to replace it. Correct? I don't know but I will learn about this stuff reguardless of folks like yourself trying to bring me down.

I LOVE this reply!! How do you make the blue boxes around what someone has typed and comment on it?? When I hit post quick reply, like I just did, does it post my comment right under yours? Because on my page, it goes to the top.

[max]

I LOVE this reply!! How do you make the blue boxes around what someone has typed and comment on it?? When I hit post quick reply, like I just did, does it post my comment right under yours? Because on my page, it goes to the top.

Hit the reply with quote button on the post you want to quote and it will put the quote in the box.

[aalynn88]

Hit the reply with quote button on the post you want to quote and it will put the quote in the box.

Bi-George I think I've got it. Thanks!!

If you pay for the trip to Thailand, you might as well have it done here, proabably still cheeper. Although since your brother is there could be another reason to visit.

Yes, the trip will be at least a few thousand but I would LOVE to see him again, plus, I would be able to stay in the ladyboy capitol of the world for a while. Also, he speaks the language and can show me around!

[ReineD]

Aalynn, welcome to the forum. First I'm giving you a head's up about another small forum technical issue. Multiple postings (several consecutive posts) are discouraged (they clog up the threads) and when a mod sees them they will merge them all together. If you want to post something and no one has posted after your last post, just click on the "Edit Post" button on your last post and add what you need to add.

I really do think you started on the wrong foot with the way that you worded things, but I think I understand.

What you meant by "preserving your male libido" or wanting to be a "man in a woman's body" was that you want to live as a woman but you don't want to lose your sex drive, and you were wondering if taking hormones would cause your sex drive to go away? If this is what you meant, your concerns are valid. You just need an education about where your sex drive comes from as a man, and where it would come from as a woman.

But before worrying about sex drive, do you feel that you ARE a woman internally? I read your intro and you've been dressing since the early teens. You've recently come out to family and friends who are accepting. Your picture does not look like a fetish CD's (you do not put on huge breast forms, dressed like a hooker, etc). I gather that you're always dressed like an average GG (genetic girl), and the only reason that you do not dress at work is because it would be difficult in the construction business to present as a girl with breast forms.

So again, putting the question of sex drive aside for a moment, why do you want to transition? Why do you want to live your life as a woman?

As to the sex drive, I'm no expert, but when transitioning birth males take androgen blockers or have their testicles removed, they eliminate testosterone production which by itself would eliminate the sex drive. So because bodies need hormones to stay healthy, transitioners need to replace the testosterone with estrogen, and this makes possible a female sex drive, especially after SRS. Other members here can explain it much better than me, but many post-op transwomen do not lose the ability to enjoy having sex, if this was your main concern.

[aalynn88]

So again, putting the question of sex drive aside for a moment, why do you want to transition? Why do you want to live your life as a woman?

You really hit the nail on the head! I wish I knew how to reply with quote just on parts of what you said but I'll figere that out later. Anyhoo, When I'm at the mall or anywhere really, I just absolutely LOVE being a woman. It feels so right I can't even begin to explain. I just love it. Do I feel im a woman on the inside? Well, I dunno. Im bi-sexual and confused. I feel like im ME on the inside. Whether thats a man or a woman, I really don't know. What does a woman supposed to feel like on the inside? I've always been a kind , soft spoken, feminin guy. I like to think anyways.

What you meant by "preserving your male libido" or wanting to be a "man in a woman's body" was that you want to live as a woman but you don't want to lose your sex drive.

Wow, Thats exactly what I meant to say!!

[Eryn]

Moderator Note:

Aalynn is a new member who has asked a valid question in a way that has offended a couple of people. Please, let us be adults here and help educate, not attack.

[aalynn88]

Moderator Note:

Aalynn is a new member who has asked a valid question in a way that has offended a couple of people. Please, let us be adults here and help educate, not attack.

Thank You very much!!! Eryn

[LeaP]

... Maybe, just maybe, I suffer from the same medical condition. Maybe, just maybe, I'm so uninformed about all this that although I now see I worded my question wrong, I came here looking for some answers and maybe, just maybe, I'm afraid of the negative side-effects of hormone therapy and wonder what good it does. ...

Anyway, from what I understand after reading these post, aside from Im an idiot and make people sick, is that I need the hormones because you lose male libido anyway with surgery so you need some female libidiousness to replace it. Correct? ...

The wording of your original post is actually quite clear. "I dress up because it's a turn-on for me" is very specific. So is the gender language - "guys like me", "male libido", "man in a woman's body", etc.

You are not a good candidate for SRS because (as an evident fetishist) the chances for post-surgical regret would be assessed as high. You are not a good candidate because, changes to medical ethics notwithstanding, the guideline is still "first, do no harm" - and SRS is viewed as a mutiliation for any but a transsexual (for whom it is a correction). You are not a good candidate because you don't understand the consequences and therefore can't give informed consent.

SRS takes medical procedures considerably past cosmetic surgery. Because of that, the physician's personal and professional ethics have as big a role as do the prospective patient's wishes. That is why they don't let "guys like you" do whatever they want. Medicine (at its best, at least) is based on evidence and outcome-based practices and standards. At this point, a man acquiring a female habitus doesn't quality.

In other words, you are not a good candidate.

[ReineD]

I missed the "turn on" part.

Lynn, this determines what motivates you to dress and if your only reason to be Lynn is for sexual gratification, it would be a huge mistake to transition. What did you mean by "turn on"?

[aalynn88]

I missed the "turn on" part.

Lynn, this determines what motivates you to dress and if your only reason to be Lynn is for sexual gratification, it would be a huge mistake to transition. What did you mean by "turn on"?

Well, obviously im not "turned on" all the time but I am dressed en femm all the time. I don't feel turned on this very moment but I am dolled up right now for instance. I got my wording "turn-on" from a testamonial from someone else on another website that had SRS and was disappointed so I stole that persons wording because it seemed to fit me to a degree but not exactly.

The wording of your original post is actually quite clear. "I dress up because it's a turn-on for me" is very specific. So is the gender language - "guys like me", "male libido", "man in a woman's body", etc.

You are not a good candidate for SRS because (as an evident fetishist) the chances for post-surgical regret would be assessed as high. You are not a good candidate because, changes to medical ethics notwithstanding, the guideline is still "first, do no harm" - and SRS is viewed as a mutiliation for any but a transsexual (for whom it is a correction). You are not a good candidate because you don't understand the consequences and therefore can't give informed consent.

SRS takes medical procedures considerably past cosmetic surgery. Because of that, the physician's personal and professional ethics have as big a role as do the prospective patient's wishes. That is why they don't let "guys like you" do whatever they want. Medicine (at its best, at least) is based on evidence and outcome-based practices and standards. At this point, a man acquiring a female habitus doesn't quality.

In other words, you are not a good candidate.

I got the wording elsewhere so I could state a question properly (which I didn't) Im tired of defending myself. Forgive me for asking anything. You just don't know me. You don't know if Im an "evident fetishist" I wish you would try and get to know me. I may be worth knowing. You never know! Night all!

[ReineD]

I know there are alternative meanings for "turn on", a residual from the hippie lingo.

But if you want meaningful advice here, you'll need to first be honest with YOURSELF, and then try to be as precise as possible when communicating to the members.

If you want to be a woman mostly because the idea arouses you then you're in the wrong place for answers. The TS section is not a fetish or a sexual site. Members here who are or have transitioned have lost families, jobs, friends, not to mention the turmoil involved with living a life not having been comfortable and then being utterly miserable as a man. They transition because of the deep disconnect they feel with their male bodies and unless you experience something like this, you cannot imagine the pain it brings to the psyche. I'm not trans, but I've read their posts and their stories for a long time.

Gender Dysphoria is the only valid reason to transition. If you want a female body because you get off on it (which is not the impression I got), then it is understandable that for those to whom transition is a life or death decision, your motives would seem disrespectful and superficial.

This is why you need to take your time when composing your posts and weigh your words carefully. But most important, the only way you will help yourself is by knowing what you want and not saying things that you've figured out others want to hear. Does this make sense? You're here to learn the truth about transition. This is not a place to use, if you want validation or quick answers because having a woman's body is a sexual thing for you.

... although, experiencing all aspects of being a woman, including sexuality is important too. It's important to know the difference.

[Eryn]

I got the wording elsewhere so I could state a question properly (which I didn't) Im tired of defending myself. Forgive me for asking anything. You just don't know me. You don't know if Im an "evident fetishist" I wish you would try and get to know me. I may be worth knowing. You never know! Night all!

Aalynn, in a post above I asked members to be respectful of you even though you asked a question in an unusual way. Now I'm going to make the same request of you. Nobody wins by lashing out at another.

[LeaP]

I got the wording elsewhere so I could state a question properly (which I didn't) Im tired of defending myself. Forgive me for asking anything. You just don't know me. You don't know if Im an "evident fetishist" I wish you would try and get to know me. I may be worth knowing. You never know! Night all!

Your own, honest thoughts and words are usually best here. Trying to use someone else's words and concepts when they don't exactly fit anyway only confuses things and gets in the way of anyone trying to see YOU. "Evident" just refers to what's been presented. No more, no less. "Turn-on" was YOUR phrase and SURELY you know the implications???

[Beth-Lock]

I would like to say a few words in favour of the self-observations of Lynn, which ring true to my experience and I think, to the experiences of some other transgendered people. One thing is an attempt to express honestly one's own experiences, while on a journey of self-discovery, should not be criticized here, and even worse, very emotionally, for being the trans-culture equivalent of politically incorrect. It seems true to me, that the actual experiences of some, do not seem to fit the patterns of existing theories, especially the most common ones, or at least not, obviously, (for example, because they might need further interpretation before they square with these theories).

1) Generally, since counselling/psychotherapeutic analysis is a difficult job and one which must be approached with great delicacy, finesse and respect for others, one of us trying to practice it on another here, is inappropriate. It would be difficult even for a professional to do so, and most specializing in gender issues would, I think, be hesitant to be so judgmental not to mention, accusatory.

2) I think one of the things that a forum like this is good for is to present other's observations and experiences, and debate, in an intellectual, mainly logical way, what they mean.

Trying to pursue the goal of 2), while doing 1), when it results in using a poster's own words, etc., by way of diagnosing their problems, syndrome, etc., and using it to undermine their arguments, which should only be opposed by logic and intellectual matters, is simply a type of the logical/rhetorical fallacy of attacking the person rather than his/her ideas/thinking, logic of their arguments. The formal name for this logical fallacy is the argumentum ad hominem and it has been known since ancient times to be a mistake. Moreover, this leads to heating up emotions and undermines politeness and respect for each other. In other words, it creates an entry point for flaming. It encourages taking everything personally, including concluding that others, because they argue or mention certain things, have a problem which requires the unasked for advice of others. Since I have run into the same sort of hurtful criticism and attempts to give me unwanted advice with an ideological twist, I identify with Lynn's experience of these things, and have been motivated, beyond my better judgment, to say something about it, here, now.

I can see how it might be viewed as useful to indoctrinate new members and try and achieve unity of goals in the so-called, trans community, or the community of members of this site. However, it has the disadvantage of suppressing debate and participation, and undermining the achieving of a noble goal of the trans community, in advancing the thinking and theoretical basis of the understanding of transsexualism. Enlightenment on the other hand is always a good thing. Unlike peer counselling which has many dangerous hazards, you cannot argue that it requires a professional licence, like those psychiatrists and psychologists need.

[noeleena]

Hi,

I never wonted to be a woman let alone be a male i never dressed as a or like a woman, yet because of the way i was born i have both iv had a good number of surgerys, so i understand some thinking behind the the male / female being one as you'v asked not a ? thats far fetched, as some may think.

Thailand , we have a number of ladyboys who i have met some 25 or so, & yes they do have breast surgery's though thier reasons are not to live as woman as such its for other reasons as many are aware of, of cause no meds are needed for them cost is about 4200 U S $ & a very good surgeon is Dr Sanguan of Phuket.Thailand.

My ? will be to understand you better is have you thought about the Psychological,,Mental..& Emotional impact this will have on you ,

For those who ...need ... to live as women will need a time for hormones to work on thier bodys in prep for surgerys & is far better for growth of the breast tissue skin to be softer & to allow for the body to adopt to the augumention.

Wether you have surgerys , for S R S is an other matter & this brings up the ? of ,

...ARE you a woman who needs to be body mind & your being as a woman .or you like the idear yet not have this change, the meds are for life the surgerys are S R S is a non return once done thats it, the sex drive well depends on the person. ill not get into that ,

To live as a woman is very different to a male in thinking & just being & how you fare in the real world of women is very different, its not an act its real life,

Now i know of a few people who live thier life as ...like ... a woman . fact is they are not its an act to them & thier thinking is nothing like how a woman thinks & i have nothing incommon with them because they are not women i dont relate with them,

Okay thats the difference, so being a woman is far more than clothes or acting out or trying to emulate a woman.

As another point im a member of women only groups, because i am a woman not a trans ether, so this then would be an issue for you how would you interact with women & this is every day full time if you like ,& to get known & be known ,

of cause im looking at this with in our groups & from a womans perspective, any way something to think about, & maybe theres more we can look at as you look at your self & how it would apply to you. or others as may be the case,

...noeleena...

[Jorja]

I guess it would be to much effort for some to give what you ask for, aalynn. Here are a couple of good sites with a lot of information. http://www.tsroadmap.com/index.html and http://transgendercare.com/ . That should keep you busy for a couple of days. Ignore those who will blast you for everything you might say and please, continue to ask questions. The only dumb question is the one not asked.

[aalynn88]

I guess it would be to much effort for some to give what you ask for, aalynn. Here are a couple of good sites with a lot of information. http://www.tsroadmap.com/index.html and http://transgendercare.com/ . That should keep you busy for a couple of days. Ignore those who will blast you for everything you might say and please, continue to ask questions. The only dumb question is the one not asked.

Thank you Jorga! I truly do appreciate all those who tried to be informative and help me. It was certainly not my intention to stir up any trouble. I guess some folks, as smart as they are, fail to realize is that by helping someone, you help yourself and being downright mean and rude to someone, well, I just feel sorry for those folks. I wouldn't feel good at all if I was like that. I will check out these other sites. This is my first and last thread on this forum, at least for a good while. Thanks all

[LeaP]

Sorry Beth, I can't agree. The written word is all we have here. We have to take (and infer) meaning from the little we have. There is a point of generosity and patience you make which has some validity, but I don't see things in political correctness terms at all. There are examples of various appoaches throughout the thread already, short as it is, including some condemnation, but also requests for clarification, and education. You can view this (particularly the last) as a sort of community PC exercise, I suppose, but in truth the comments represent medicine as it is currently practiced in regard to SRS.

The question was asked ... ("Why can't ...). and answered in the context given. My comments on topics like standards of care, medical ethics, and views of the surgery for non-TS, informed consent, etc. are plain descriptions of the way the SRS world operates. My statement on regret was my own based on what I've read to-date.

Aalynn has tried to clarify and soften the gender language that the majority of the responses are addressing, but reponses so far have been directly to the heart of the question, particularly Michelle's. The answer from a SRS surgeon would likely be even less receptive, if there was a response at all. Short of the backstreet surgeons Cat mentions, there are no realistic alternatives.

Finallly, I don't see anyone attempting therapy here and information is not therapy.

I believe any additional clarification by Aalynn would be met as it is received. I can readily come up with other instances of members describing themselves in ways that presented challenges to understanding, but which worked out over time. Maybe a more generous view of the regular membership would include the perspective that since we are not professionals, it might be a little harder getting to that understanding, rather than raising the "PC" flag.

[EDIT]

Aalynn, please do continue, if you can. There are a lot of people here who can provide insight of considerable value, based on HARD experience. It's difficult to find elsewhere. It's completely true that fetish motives get a very poor reception here, and that your comments have been taken along those lines by many (including me) - but if things are other than what they appear (or perhaps initially appeared), you'll find this a generous and giving place, appearances to the contrary. Don't give up too soon ... this is a rough road and things here might be considered gentle in comparison to what you will go through in your life if you elect to continue toward SRS.

[Kathryn Martin]

Dear Kathryn Martin. Maybe, just maybe, I suffer from the same medical condition.

I doubt that very much given that it was your first post here and your "question" was incredibly specific and very telling. I have been accused of not "liking" your question and that was the reason my comment was deleted. To be truthful, I thought your question reveals much (notwithstanding any backtracking afterwards) and what's not to like about it.

Maybe, just maybe, I'm so uninformed about all this that although I now see I worded my question wrong, I came here looking for some answers

To claim you asked the question: " I just wanna keep my male libido and be a man in a womans [sic] body, why don't they let guys get the surgery without taking hormones first? wrong because you are uninformed fails to address how you could have asked this question any different. You want to keep your male libido while making yourself sexually available with a female body. You ask why guys can't get a female body without losing aggressive male sexual behavior.

and maybe, just maybe, I'm afraid of the negative side-effects of hormone therapy and wonder what good it does.

Oh I gathered that because it would lose you your male libido (your words not mine)

Look, I sincerely don't mean to make ANYONE sick or degrade ANYONE.

I am absolutely sure that this was not your intention. But sometimes being thoughtless has the same effect

I'm just a kind and loving person who is tolerant and loving to even a person like yourself. I can't make anyone sick unless they are sick to begin with. Believe it or not but I love you and wish only the best for you but it is wrong to attack someone as you just did myself. You hurt my feelings.

You see, I can not claim not have intended what I did. I intended to express my views as clearly as possible. I do not buy your story that this is all a question of being ignorant, being "new" to this, not having done your research. If you crossdressed all of your life as you claim then being uninformed is not really something that can be claimed. As a result of all of this amazing "acceptance" from the various posters here you will now change your narrative to adapt to the transgender paradigm and before we all know it you will make wild claims about your medical status. You will be healed from ignorance and all will be forgotten because you then comply with generally accepted transgender principles. Good luck with that

Oh, and you and I will never be the same .....

[Catherine Hopkins]

Y'know what.

After two moderator interventions, Lynn keeps being savaged.

Maybe it's time this thread was simply closed and Lynn was allowed to start again. Geeze. The intolerance here stinks. Can't anybody be allowed to recover from starting off on the wrong foot?

[aalynn88]

I had no idea that posting an innocent question would raise such a ruckus but like Jorja said, "the only dumb question is the one not asked." Its seems I need to find information before I can find information. Anyway, to put this as honestly and sincerely as I can, In my own crude language, I just want to be a girl. I guess I wasn't looking at SRS as a correction for an incompatability. Instead I was looking at it as a way of making my dream come true. I do not want this penis between my legs, period! There have many times where I wish I could just take out the butcher knife and cut it off but I'm not insane. I actually think I would be happier with no sex organ at all rather than have this thing between my legs. When I first read about SRS, one particular site said 80% never again achieve orgasm (which now I believe is not correct. More like 20% I don't know but this is why I posted the original question) My point is, Im 47 years old, I've had plenty of orgasms, I think I would be willing to give that up just so I could have a vagina. Of course I don't want to give that up and may not have to, but I would. Why would I go to such lengths like dressing up like a woman every day if I didn't want to be one? From my point of view, I don't see why anyone would want to be a hairy, smelly, ugly man if they could be a soft, pretty, smooth female. I don't get the FtM deal but I certainly don't want to upset anyone who is. Anyhow, I will probably have to have this darned ole penis the rest of my life but If I can at least get the breast than I'm gonna!!

I was called a fetishist. I need to look that word up but I didn't like the sound of it. Is crossdressing just a fetish? I've been doing it since I can remember. I can't quit doing it. Believe me, I've tried. I've hid it all my life until a few months ago when I came CHARGING out of the closet. Best decision I ever made! Like I said, I love being one of the girls!!!

[Kathryn Martin]

Hi Catherine,

I am not at all sure that what I wrote is intolerant. I have asked myself this question, how it can be intolerant to question someones motives given the initial post. What was the mistake that could be fixed? that Lynn did not want to keep his male sex drive but with a vagina to play with? and actually stated so?

Actually because it is such a hapless statement it says everything does it not? Do you suggest as I did above that changing the narrative might actually fix what Lynn said after the fact?

Is crossdressing just a fetish? I've been doing it since I can remember. I can't quit doing it. Believe me, I've tried. I've hid it all my life until a few months ago when I came CHARGING out of the closet. Best decision I ever made! Like I said, I love being one of the girls!!!

And - we are away to the races!

[aalynn88]

I doubt that very much given that it was your first post here and your "question" was incredibly specific and very telling. I have been accused of not "liking" your question and that was the reason my comment was deleted. To be truthful, I thought your question reveals much (notwithstanding any backtracking afterwards) and what's not to like about it.



To claim you asked the question: " I just wanna keep my male libido and be a man in a womans [sic] body, why don't they let guys get the surgery without taking hormones first? wrong because you are uninformed fails to address how you could have asked this question any different. You want to keep your male libido while making yourself sexually available with a female body. You ask why guys can't get a female body without losing aggressive male sexual behavior.



Oh I gathered that because it would lose you your male libido (your words not mine)



I am absolutely sure that this was not your intention. But sometimes being thoughtless has the same effect



You see, I can not claim not have intended what I did. I intended to express my views as clearly as possible. I do not buy your story that this is all a question of being ignorant, being "new" to this, not having done your research. If you crossdressed all of your life as you claim then being uninformed is not really something that can be claimed. As a result of all of this amazing "acceptance" from the various posters here you will now change your narrative to adapt to the transgender paradigm and before we all know it you will make wild claims about your medical status. You will be healed from ignorance and all will be forgotten because you then comply with generally accepted transgender principles. Good luck with that

Oh, and you and I will never be the same .....

I was in the closet about all this before a few months ago and therefore had no plans to go forward with anything. Why then would I have done any research? Now, Im so happy about being out of the closet and everyone accepting me as I am that I am just now really excited about the possibilities and looking for answers. Is that so hard to believe? Sorry to get off on the wrong foot with you Katheryn. I wish I could fix it.

[Kathryn Martin]

Lynn, did you come out of your lifelong closet a few months ago and now live full time as a woman?

[aalynn88]

Hi Catherine,

I am not at all sure that what I wrote is intolerant. I have asked myself this question, how it can be intolerant to question someones motives given the initial post. What was the mistake that could be fixed? that Lynn did not want to keep his male sex drive but with a vagina to play with? and actually stated so?

Actually because it is such a hapless statement it says everything does it not? Do you suggest as I did above that changing the narrative might actually fix what Lynn said after the fact?


And - we are away to the races!

I really dont even understand what you mean. I will tell you this, I have sex with men. Ok. I don't wanna have to do it the way gay guys do it. Ok (dont wanna sound crude) any how please just let me be Kathriyn Geez. live and let live