I need info.

[KateConnors]

Yes exactly, which is why I was glad to see the OP pose the questions, unfortunately just not very well.

I am convinced that early acceptance or a more open gender model would likely have resulted in my NOT transitioning. I did indeed wish I was born a girl but I WAS able to accept my reality and I was able to live a relatively normal life albeit a vaguely unhappy one. For me, my gender issues were tightly intertwined with my sexuality and I think my inability to accept myself as a gay man is at the core of why I needed to transition. I wanted to be gay rather than a TS and I tried in earnest to make the gender queer thing work but ultimately I preferred to be seen as something other than a man. Being a TS was not a desirable outcome, but in my current state of mind, I feel like it was the single best decision I ever made. Having said that, I just can't help but wonder how much my current state of mind has been influenced by socialization and the rigid gender roles that I grew to accept as normal.

I tend to think that as society evolves, we will see far more gender variants and far fewer Transsexuals. Well, eventually. First we'll see a LOT more Transsexuals, then society will begin to evolve to a more constructive understanding of gender expression.

Wow Melissa, that didn't half resonate with me. I tried for a couple of years to remain as a feminine man, moving perhaps towards to gender queer, since I was pretty sure that this was a place where I could be happy and I figured that this would be a place where my friends, family and wife would be able to follow. This caused all kinds of issues with my own self image and marriage, and so I tried to keep as the more generic man since anything else didn't seem to be an option. This of course broke down, and now I'm in full blown transition. I can't really blame my wife, or anyone else, but if given the opportunity to live as a more expressive feminine male, I guess I wouldn't be where I am today.

Given that though, zero regrets regarding transition.

[TeresaL]

Something else that no one ever says out loud, is the addiction factor associated with "dressing" behavior...
... release a lot of dopamine and often becomes a recurrent, addictive behavior.

Ugh. My reparative therapist, in 1995, sent me to SAA to cure me from cross dressing as an addiction. My group consisted of pediphiles, rapists, hookers, and others who were sent by the judicial system for rehab. I'm not against the folks themselves, but the testimonies they brought in when they "slipped" were about things I never want to hear again in my life. On the fifty mile trip back home, there were times when we had to pull over so I could vomit. After three months of attending, I reported to my therapist that I was cured.

It's a little OT, but our experiences combine to describe the seriousness of this mechanism. Lynn, it's crap! But it is us, and we learn to live and live to learn.

[aalynn88]

its not like we make some phone calls and set up the operations...try a couple hours of electrolysis for example...that's a great cure for addiction to femininity...

HAHA They zapped me really hard my most recent session of laser hair removal, ouch, but it was way worth it! Plus it cost me $1,700.00 for just my upper-lip and chin. I went in after reading on the internet lip and chin only cost about 250.00. When I got there, they said thats per session! I've already spent what I consider a small fortune in just the last 6 months or so on that and a whole new wardrobe.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

that sounds like a lot of $$ for laser but i'm looking back 5 years ..
sometimes laser doesn't work well though

electrolysis hurts much worse and can cost 70-100 per hour...and can take 300 or 400 hours...

in any case, its good to get rid of that hair...

[TeresaL]

that sounds like a lot of $$ for laser but i'm looking back 5 years ..
sometimes laser doesn't work well though

electrolysis hurts much worse and can cost 70-100 per hour...and can take 300 or 400 hours...

in any case, its good to get rid of that hair...

And it hurts even more if the electrologist can increase the current. The old machines had a manual rheostat, and they could kill more follicles when cranked! I used to bite a penny, as my gal would rotate the knob clockwise and ask "does it hurt now?"

[Eryn]

I don't know of anyone who has a perfectly hair-free face from laser. I suppose if someone has a sparse jet-black beard and transparent Nordic skin they might get that level of results, but for normal people expect a reduction in hair, but not eradication. If you want proof of this, try to tell the laser place "I'll pay you $3000 if I can keep coming in until I have a smooth face." They won't go for it because they know, as they say in the business "Results Not Typical."

That means that you're going to need electrolysis no matter what, and that isn't exactly fast. Even if you opt for the "pluck-o-thon" approach you're going to have to go through several sessions and quite a lot of clean-up over several months.

I speak from experience. Seven laser treatments and six month of two-hours-per-week electrolysis. I am making progress but hair-free is still a ways away.

[TeresaL]

and that isn't exactly fast.
six month of two-hours-per-week electrolysis. I am making progress but hair-free is still a ways away.

More perspective. I had two months, once or twice per week. Hold your pinky up. That's all she removed. In 1995, it was fifty bucks an hour. My beard is white and doesn't show, but shaving still is a hastle. I just don't know if I can muster up and do it again. LOL

[aalynn88]

I don't know of anyone who has a perfectly hair-free face from laser.

I went to a place called Ideal Image and they said they guarantee permanant removal although every article I read on the internet says there is no such thing as permanant. They said if after 5 sessions over a 10 month period if any grows back any following session is only $30.00 They are all registered nurses that work there. One of them told me you may need to have hormones to keep it from growing back. ???

[Badtranny]

I went to a place called Ideal Image and they said they guarantee permanant removal although every article I read on the internet says there is no such thing as permanant. They said if after 5 sessions over a 10 month period if any grows back any following session is only $30.00 They are all registered nurses that work there. One of them told me you may need to have hormones to keep it from growing back. ???

It would have to be enough hormones to kill you then because HRT doesn't reduce hair growth anywhere as far as I can tell. I still have to shave my chest after 2 years and 5 months on the juice.

[arbon]

The person that did my laser assured me it would be permanent but she was wrong. As for HRT - the woman that does my electrolysis now always asks me how my hormone levels are she believes to that the hrt should be reducing growth, I don't know, maybe it would be a lot worse without hrt.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

just rub some more snake oil on it!!

my first electrologist calls hair removal "bandit science"

its very unpredictable...some lucky souls have had laser work (it worked on my back and chest!!) but did nothing for my face...and 350 hrs of electrolysis has left me with sparse hair on my face but i have to shave every day...others have had some laser and much less electro and they have soft faces.

[Catherine Hopkins]

My electro record now shows 34-24-21-15 hours in my 4 sessions at e3000. That was for full clearance each time so at the start of session 4 I had about 44% the number of hairs as originally.

What it doesn't show is that each hair is weaker and grows more slowly.

My beard was the beard form hell according to the girls at e3000. Tough and fast, I needed to shave twice a day, three times if I was going somewhere special in the evening - and that was to do BOY mode. Now, I shave twice a WEEK and a good shave before getting changed into girl mode will last me all weekend.

On the plus side, because it had never been plucked, waxed or lasered, the follicles were nice and straight so easy to treat.

After 4 sessions, I guess I'm looking at about 1/3 or my original beard in terms of hair numbers but much less in terms of apparent beard.

Next visit might be 12 hours. If progress is maintained, each 3 visits will halve the hairs left and by normal calculations of half lives, 6 is effectively finished so 18 visits in total.

So far, not including flights and hotels, $10,000 or so but money well spent.

[aalynn88]

As to the sex drive, I'm no expert, but when transitioning birth males take androgen blockers or have their testicles removed, they eliminate testosterone production which by itself would eliminate the sex drive. So because bodies need hormones to stay healthy, transitioners need to replace the testosterone with estrogen, and this makes possible a female sex drive, especially after SRS. Other members here can explain it much better than me, but many post-op transwomen do not lose the ability to enjoy having sex, if this was your main concern.

Given that what has been said about me is pretty much true, although some of the wording was pretty blunt and a bit hurtful, I would still be interested in knowing a few things, even though I am not a transexual, and I am more than likely never going to go any further than crossdressing and possibly breast implants. I hope it is ok to ask these questions just because I am curious but if my questions are too much of an intimate nature, I apologize in advance and will never ask them on a forum like this ever again. I first looked at the websites Jorja posted links to but did not find an answer to what Im about to ask. Perhaps, I did not read them thorouly enough but anyway, here goes...Once one loses sex drive because of removal of the testacles, has the hrt already initiated some sort of female sex-drive? Do you think some who have gone through SRS, never regained any sex drive? If so, was it still better having "the right parts" and no sex-drive? Does the good feeling I have when dressed like a female, feeling sexy and beautiful, come from sexdrive? Is that also lost? I ask this because I enjoy being dressed up without having sex or masterbating.

I just now went back and read some more and found this...Many people simply assume that the loss of the external male genitalia will result in a complete loss of sexuality. This very naive myth unnecessarily frightens many preop women, and it also furthers prejudice against postop TS women, who are often thought of by the general public as having "desexed themselves".

Certainly a typical male would suffer a catastrophic impact on body image and libido from the loss of his external genitalia. However, it has long been known that with counseling and practice, even males who have lost their genitalia to cancer can recover the capability for arousal and orgasm.

Furthermore, intensely TS women are not "regular guys". They do not suffer a negative impact on body image as a result of SRS, but instead find a greatly enhanced body image"



I may not be TS but not a "typical guy" either. I dont think I would suffer a negative body image as a result of srs.

[Eryn]

...They said if after 5 sessions over a 10 month period if any grows back any following session is only $30.00...

Consdering that a full-beard session laser session can easily be done in 20 minutes, what they have guaranteed is that you can continue paying them $90 an hour for laser. Probably better than the standard rate, but not much of a guarantee of performance.

[Kathryn Martin]

If your surgeon knows her craft functionality is guaranteed. Libido for women is very different from your experience as a male. If you are functioning normally both physiologically and hormonally then libido will be there.

The real question is if you are a woman. There are some who will not experience a transformation of their sexuality and "miss" everything that testosterone brought to their sexuality. That happens especially when transition and SRS is the fantasy of being a woman or the desire to be like a woman goes as far as having SRS. Many late transitioners construct narratives that upon closer inspection and deeper examination reveal that they are not transsexual. The result is they may end up incompatible sexual partners for women ( because they lack a crucial ability for lack of testosterone or lack of penis) and incompatible sexual partners for men because their sexuality is male (if trying to partner with a heterosexual male) or they look to female (boobs, soft skin etc) for a homosexual male partner. So loneliness and sometimes deep depression is the result.

Lynn, decisions to transition and truly bring your body into alignment with your birth gender pre-supposes that in fact you are female to begin with. Unfortunately, simply saying you are after living as a male for 50 years or more is not enough. The real tell tales are not how you feel now or even how you felt as a child, adolescent or adult. They are how you acted and reacted throughout your life and continue to act and react. In this as in so many other areas of life actions speak louder than words. It is in your writing, in every gesture, in your approach to every subject.

[aalynn88]

Thank you Kathryn! This has all been very interesting for me. I finally started reading some very interesting articles like "Overview of Transgendered Sexuality" from a link off one of the links Jorja recommended. Lots of big words I hadn't heard of before like, androphillic, autogynephilia (me) lol. Anyway, Im learning!

[arbon]

oh yeah autogynephilia, I had not thought about that earlier in this thread. Its good though you are learning more, and have time to keep learning more and decide what is right for, which is really what is all comes down - what makes you feel right about you.

[aalynn88]

Bisexual gender dysphorics represent those cases in which the autogynephilic disorder gives rise to some secondary interest in men that coexists with the individual's basic attraction to women. Autogynephilia, as indicated above, may find expression in the fantasy of having intercourse, as a woman, with a man. In bisexual gender dysphoria these fantasies are especially strong; they are therefore more likely to be actualizes - or rather, approximated - with anal or oral intercourse substituting for vaginal - particularly with the bisexual gender dysphoric in partial or complete cross-dress (Benjamin, 1967; Person and Ovesey, 1974). The effective erotic stimulus in these interactions however, is not the male physique of the partner, as it in in true homosexual attraction, but rather the thought of being a women, which is symbolized in the fantasy of being penetrated by a man. For these persons, the male sexual partner serves te same function as women's apparel or make-up, namely, to aid and intensify the fantasy of being a woman

WOW, this is so me!

[ReineD]

Lynn, I'd like to give you a head's up: the topic of autogynephilia (AGP) does NOT belong in this section. AGP (the love of oneself as a woman) is a fetish, and transwomen transition because they have gender dysphoria. They are NOT fetishistic.

A bit of background: A sexologist, Ray Blanchard, coined the AGP term. He claimed it is the reason that TSs who are attracted to women want to transition. This caused a great deal of furor among transwomen, who understandably resented being told that they were motivated to transition for fetish reasons.

I agree though that among fetish crossdressers particularly, AGP can be either autoerotic or with a male partner, if the CDer is not attracted to men in male mode. If you want to discuss AGP, I strongly recommend you do so in the CDer section.

If, however, you are in fact TS and you are using other means to approximate having a woman's body until you have gender reassignment surgery, then that's quite another thing. But honestly I think you should discuss this privately via PM with someone.

[aalynn88]

Lynn, I'd like to give you a head's up: the topic of autogynephilia (AGP) does NOT belong in this section. AGP (the love of oneself as a woman) is a fetish, and transwomen transition because they have gender dysphoria. They are NOT fetishistic.

A bit of background: A sexologist, Ray Blanchard, coined the AGP term. He claimed it is the reason that TSs who are attracted to women want to transition. This caused a great deal of furor among transwomen, who understandably resented being told that they were motivated to transition for fetish reasons.


I agree though that among fetish crossdressers particularly, AGP can be either autoerotic or with a male partner, if the CDer is not attracted to men in male mode. If you want to discuss AGP, I strongly recommend you do so in the CDer section.

If, however, you are in fact TS and you are using other means to approximate having a woman's body until you have gender reassignment surgery, then that's quite another thing. But honestly I think you should discuss this privately via PM with someone.

I understand completely and thank you!

[Beth-Lock]

AGP (the love of oneself as a woman) is a fetish, and transwomen transition because they have gender dysphoria. They are NOT fetishistic.
....
I agree though that among fetish crossdressers particularly, AGP can be either autoerotic or with a male partner, if the CDer is not attracted to men in male mode. If you want to discuss AGP, I strongly recommend you do so in the CDer section.

If, however, you are in fact TS and you are using other means to approximate having a woman's body until you have gender reassignment surgery, then that's quite another thing. But honestly I think you should discuss this privately via PM with someone.

I was not aware of these strange theories and even less, of their tortuous history. My view is that it would be nice if people could be divided neatly into such clear categories, but they can't. On the other hand, I would like to think that someone in the learning stage, should be able to talk about what they are feeling, in all its raw phenomenological reality, without it "sicklied o'r by the pale cast of thought," first. But then as someone else said, I don't own this site.

[Badtranny]

On the other hand, I would like to think that someone in the learning stage, should be able to talk about what they are feeling, in all its raw phenomenological reality, without it "sicklied o'r by the pale cast of thought," first. But then as someone else said, I don't own this site.

Well I agree with you there Beth, I deplore the very idea of anything being off limits for discussion. RD is merely saying that AGP is not a topic for this particular section. Some of us would like to keep the TS section limited to TS topics like the challenges of actually transitioning, or healthcare, or FFS, or SRS, or name changes, or any number of things that people experience when they are transitioning from one gender to the other. TS people have very unique issues and we have this one little section to commiserate and counsel each other. If we're going to have AGP threads here, then we might as well have panty threads. As it is, this little section is one of the best resources on the net for people who are on the road to transition.

[ReineD]

I was not aware of these strange theories and even less, of their tortuous history. My view is that it would be nice if people could be divided neatly into such clear categories, but they can't. On the other hand, I would like to think that someone in the learning stage, should be able to talk about what they are feeling, in all its raw phenomenological reality, without it "sicklied o'r by the pale cast of thought," first. But then as someone else said, I don't own this site.

Melissa said it for me, Beth.

It would cause a flame war if we opened up the topic of transitioning for fetish reasons in the TS section. There has been a lot of ill will in this thread already with mod and admin warnings and I was concerned that it would get worse. I also felt that Lynn deserved a head's up because she's new.

If you haven't come across the contention among transwomen surrounding AGP & Blanchard, and having transsexuality classified as a paraphilia in the DSM up until version 5 for "non-homosexual" TSs, you should google it.

[Kathryn Martin]

I was not aware of these strange theories and even less, of their tortuous history. My view is that it would be nice if people could be divided neatly into such clear categories, but they can't. On the other hand, I would like to think that someone in the learning stage, should be able to talk about what they are feeling, in all its raw phenomenological reality, without it "sicklied o'r by the pale cast of thought," first. But then as someone else said, I don't own this site.

These strange theories unfortunately inform much as it affects gender variant and transsexual persons. Blanchard and Zucker sat on the DSM 5 amendments committee and Zucker was actually the chairman. I am curious how you have come so far without even becoming aware of them. You don't strike me as someone who would not have done research.

I don't think anyone is preventing anyone else from talking about their feelings. Part of the phenomenon however is that you have someone who based on fetishistic compulsion or motivation dreams about extreme body modification. The question then becomes if this is the right place. If you pay close attention to what people report here on this site then developing a phenomenological approach to the classification of who it is you are talking to is not so far away. There is little or no "sicklied o'r by the pale cast of thought" in observing and developing concepts of the different phenomena.

As Misty says there is this tiny little place where we can talk about things that are really transition related and yet it is consistently flooded with whomever and their fetishistic dreams.

I have met a number of people over the last years who regretted having SRS, for some the ultimate fantasy and desire had become so strong they purchased their surgery clearance letter online. One of them hated what she had become the morning after the surgery and has never recovered from the trauma. Others find that their male sexuality cannot be transported across the divide and are unable to evolve simply because they are not women. Women are not constructed by some hormones, the knife of a surgeon. There is a reason that the surgery is called sex re-assignment or gender confirmation surgery . In either case it expresses the purpose, namely that the body is brought into alignment with the innate gender. This something I would point out to Reine. There is no such things as a re-assignment of gender and certainly not by surgical means. The utter loneliness that men in women's bodies, brought about by surgery that should not have been permitted in the first place, experience is very grave but there is no going back. So they seek another transperson in a similar situation just to be not so lonely anymore. But most don't. Because they cannot find a way to align the need to be with the real object of their attraction and being with someone who clearly is not.

For me much of what fills these pages is like a peepshow. The fascination with trainswrecks rather than counsel, support and resource, and above all question those bold statements of "I am transsexual" rather than sing the "you go gurl" choir.

[Frances]

I decided to break my vow to never post again in the open forum, and I actually think that AGP is a proper topic for this section.

Most cis-gendered people are obsessed with the cause of transsexuality. Cis-gendered professionals have all sorts of pet theories regarding the motivation of transsexuals, including AGP, to the point that trans people even question themselves.

The problem with AGP is its caracterization as a motive or a cause. In fact, it's totally normal. A young girl discovering her sexuality normally envisions herself having sex as a woman, even if she inhabits a male body. If she's strong-willed enough and surrounded by supporting people, she will eventually acquire that female body and feel whole, including in her sexuality. How could a trans person who has not transitioned not envision him or herself in the body of the other sex? Cis-gendered girls often think of themselves as fully developped mature adults being desired by a mate while masturbating. Do they have AGP?

Some trans people (myself included) have been subjected to negative reinforcement throughout childhood and adolescence about crossing the gender divide, so much so that they start feeling intense shame and hating that part of themselves. In my case, there was a cleavage in my personality and sexual fantasy became the only place where my true self could exist.

Where I differ a lot of people on this site, it that I saw AGP was a reason to NOT transition. I thought I had a fetish, and that the best possible recourse was getting cured of the fetish, not transitioning. So I went to all sorts of professionals to find a cure (from age 16 to my late thirties). It did not work. When I faced the real truth, that I was a girl having normal fantasies for a girl, and not a guy with a fetish, I allowed myself to transition (after years of therapy). I would have prefered it being a fetish, believe me. Transition sucks big time!

Trans people, however, can have paraphilias as well as being trans. One does not exclude the other.