I've had very good experiences too. I just look at the bad ones, and there really hasn't been that many that were bad, as things that do happen. I hope that anyone reading this doesn't give up and not try, because there are a lot of nice people out that do care about us. My experiences have been more positive than negative.
Dana Ryan
This one person was probably not unique, of course, but may not be representative either. Heads up, ladies!
If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got!
I certainly wouldn't let it get to you, it is simply the views of one person who lacks the ability to think of other peoples feelings or to put themselves in their situation. As for saying that CDers are ugly and gross, she's not very good at her job then is she. If anyone goes for a make over and the person doing it thinks they are ugly afterwards then that is a reflection on the ability of the artist not the canvas. If she's saying things like this about one section of her customers, what is she saying about the rest, after all not every woman who goes for a make over is beautiful, does she make snide comments about them too.
Have a makeover and be beautiful but let it be with an artist who is good at what they do, a good one can work with any canvas and end up with a masterpiece.
I am saddened by this, not just because of the attitude toward CDers. That is really poor customer service attitude and etiquette. I've worked in customer service type jobs for many years and had been taught to never talk bad about any customer, even behind their back off the sales floor.
I'm not saying I never talk about the customers, just that I never speak ill for any reason.
Love and Hugs,
Jamie
Kathi beat me to the words while I was sleeping!! And,someone you only know online is just "someone that you chat with"..obviously you aren't really comfortable with her or this conversation wouldn't have happened!Originally Posted by Kathi Lake
"The boobs are real,the smile is fake"..
Last edited by Eryn; 01-15-2013 at 11:15 PM. Reason: Merged two consecutive posts. Please use the multiquote button at the bottom right of each post to put all your replys in one post.
It SURE is my hair ! I have the receipt and the box it came in !
Spot on Eryn. And you know what. They probably also feel contempt for the spotty teens and weathered forty-somethings. Sales people the world over snigger and gossip behind customers backs. Being trans is just one target but there are countless others.
love
Cat
wow, I would think a real make up artist would love the challenge of giving an illusion for us. I hope your friend is a minority in her thinking.
I am an Artist working in all Mediums including Sexy
So, what you are saying is that the women really don't like doing it but are being cordial for the sake of business. We shouldn't feel "special" that that is the case. I know many female hairdressers who think some of their women customers are gross in one way or another, always commenting on or complaining about this, that or the other thing. We just have to realize that that is just human nature and we can't please everyone but if we are the paying customer, they have to wait on us regardless if they want the money.
Second star to the right and straight on till morning
This is a pretty rude generalization to make. This is true of some men and women; they are friendly when they want something and arrogant when they feel like they don't need someone else. Not just young pretty women. But most people who appear friendly, are friendly.
Deedee
It's not wrong... but it is forbidden!
I never base my assessment of any group from a single anecdote...or in this case, one make up artist. It's possible that the women she works with find us gross...or that she personally has some,prejudice. I don't think this applies to the make up artists I have gotten to know. The only negative comment I heard was that one CDr that they served was unpleasant, sullen and seemingly withdrawn. They didn't assume that was true,of all CDrs either.
Your friend doesn't sound like the type of person I'd want to be around. I'm not a huge fan of anyone that puts people down to get laughs.
Something we should keep in mind generally I think
Bi-Gendered, Goth/Metal Fan, Atheist, Artist and British
I agree that your sample is too small to draw conclusions from. Undoubtedly though, it is true that some MUA's will feel just like her but not all. Just like she shouldn't bunch us all together, neither should we bunch them together! I have had many very pleasant makeovers, mostly in salons, but even at makeup stores and counters (usually MAC counters). What brand does she work for? Maybe they and or the store don't do any sensitivity training. One give away for me is if you show up dressed in a dress/skirt and all your other attire/accessaries are feminine and they us he or him, it usually means more. Getting the pronouns right is an indication that they understand, at least a bit.
I also get my human hair wigs styled and of the numerous salons I've tried some just give you that vibe and you don't return, others welcomming. One interesting salon where I still go to for pedis, has a lovely nail tech that even remembered my kids ages (months later) but the time I went for a wig styling with a stylist there the wheels fell off. All was well until the stylist asked me how my wife feels and when I replied DODT the whole mood changed. NowI could have said simply fine but I didn't. She actually, in a sort of slick way had two junior stylists finish me.
Now some will question why I still return and it is simple the salon is great with one exception and she doesn't get my money anymore. I brought the hair thing to a manager's attention and got all the right replies and a monetary adjustment for future pedicures (the front dress said that had she known while I was still there it would have been cash back).
I try to focus on the nice (to my face atleast) interactions. If anyone here has ever worked in a customer oriented job I'll bet they bad mouthed many a customer in the back room regardless of the type of business and for a multitude of reasons. I only concern myself with how I'm treated face to face.
I’ve only had a few professional makeovers and they were pleasant experiences. In each case they were set up prior, which if anyone has concerns about being treated professionally, I would suggest doing. While I’ve shopped issue free in department stores, I’ve never gone in “cold” to a make-up counter and have wondered how that would be received. I’ve read plenty of accounts from members here that have and don’t recall any negative reactions encountered. Perhaps a majority of the battle towards being “accepted” comes from how one projects themselves from the inside.
I’ve also gone to spas for pedicures and wig boutiques en femme and if any staff had any issues with me being there it was hidden well. Again, in all instances they were arranged in advance. Quite frankly, I’m more concerned about a negative reaction from another customer than from anyone working at any given establishment. Not so much how it would effect me, but more so the livelihood of the store, particularly if it’s an independent business.
Oh, and I keep my knees together and cross at the ankle.
I fully agree with Jennifer's point. It doesn't matter what profession or trade you are talking about, there always seems to be a minority of people with deplorable behavior. Grant it, an enjoyable makeover is a wonderful experience. If you don't have a great place to receive one, the best thing is learning how to do it yourself. That's what I did a long time ago and it wasn't that difficult. The amount of information and tutorials on the Internet seems endless.
Someone else's imagination is a terrible thing to waste.
Like April, I've had some success with a pre-arranged appointment, laying everything out in advance, so to speak, and it was at a MAC counter. My MUA was great, but some other customers making their presence "too well known" were an uncomfortable experience, and my MUA basically told them to buzz off..... "as you can see I have an appointment"....
I had a terrible experience when I walked into an Ulta location unannounced enfemme to inquire about making an appointment for a makeover, and was treated like Frankenstein by the manager initially; she's much better now, but nothing like the welcome at MAC. I started by calling, and explaining that I was a MTF Crossdresser and wanted to learn more about better makeup techniques. The staff person I spoke with was just fabulous and she was very friendly.
Jamie
This may be true but I have seen some woman that could take a few lessons from us on how to act like a woman.
This is a big point to me. Whenever a person has a certain view, then they paint the majority of the world as having the same view. It is a human nature type thing as we all like to feel we have the majority of people behind us. You can see it here when it comes to any discussion that has differing perspectives. Someone on one side of the coin will come out with a comment that 90%+ of everyone is XXXX when if you read all the comments you can see it isn't true. The old saying that the truth is someone in the middle has some background to it.
So I wouldn't let this sit on anyone's mind if you are wanting a makeover. If they agree to the appointment, you are most of the way there. If you have a bad experience, then never go back to the lady and move on. But I am guessing that is a rarity because of the sales potential.
That ability to read someone is obscured by my fears surrounding CDing still. I'm pretty good at it in other areas of my life. I've met a few women who were dying to dress me up and put make-up on me. Unfortunately, when I was younger, I was still too terrified about it to realize what they were offering and take them up on it! So this one person's opinion is understandable because I think that females who support CDing are in the minority. That's the only conclusion I would draw from this one encounter and I wouldn't write off all of them.
My take on it is that it's all really about confidence. If I ever get to the point where I'd try that, I'm going to walk up in guy mode and just ask, "Is there anyone here who enjoys making a guy look like a woman?" Then I don't care who it is as long as they really like me and want to help.
Often, when I hear this sort of story here, I've wondered what would happen if we cried a little. Not a crocodile tears and not a cloudburst but a sincere sign of hurt feelings. Maybe that would bring it home that their comments are cutting and intolerant.
There's a grain of truth to this. To be fair, I'd say to any young woman, never take a young man's sexual interest seriously unless they give you a ring.
The real thing is that during puberty, it is crucial for teens to differentiate their personalities from their parents. Consequently, they often rebel or at the least refuse to behave in ways that make them think they are too much like mom or dad. In addition, during this time, both sexes become incredibly selfish, ego-absorbed, even narcissistic and often it takes a while after entering adulthood to shake loose from this emotionally volatile and immature way of thinking. That's why our parents used to recommend waiting until a woman was 25 before marrying them; they're still just too much in flux and finding themselves before that time.
The young women I've seen behind most of these counters appear to be high school graduates with limited life experience. So of course, you're going to find disapproval and intolerance. It's most likely just an echo of their parents values more than anything. In fact, I'd dare to say that most people really haven't found their own center until they're 30+.
Last edited by CassandraSmith; 01-15-2013 at 02:00 PM.
Kathi Lake - You totally understood what I was trying to say. If we go out to get our makeup done, dont be so nervous that you just pick some random lady to give it to you, find the right woman that looks you in the eye and can still smile. One that makes you feel good even if she thinks otherwise. I have been lucky so far, I have found several women that have no problem with meeting Keri and that makes me feel good inside, and gives me a drive to continue being true to myself.
The cross your legs comment was more directed to say that if we want tolerance, then dont be a neanderthal and sit with your legs like a man, I was not trying to say talk and act like a woman, (well do it if you can be comfortable) For me, when I dress I want to be as close to passable as possible, I know I will always have guy traits but the less the better.
Being able to talk to someone that has no idea about me, just because this gives me an honest insight into what people really feel about us
OK the reason this woman does not know I am Transgendered is- she is my Step-Fathers girlfriend. so yes I see her at many family functions, she is a very nice lady to talk to and she is always smiling, My Step father does not know because my wife does not want everyone to know. Now I believe their are about sixteen people that I have told and so far so good. I am at a crossroads right now and sooner or later I have to make a decision on which way to go and if I choose to forage ahead, I will have no problem telling her about me. But until then she will remain in the dark as long as possible.
Am I being true to myself about being Transgendered? My answer- I am trying to be true to myself as well as my family. So every chance I get Yes I am.
Last edited by Eryn; 01-15-2013 at 11:16 PM. Reason: Merged consecutive posts. Please us the edit button rather than multi-posting
I wish I had the courage to just be myself and live my life how I want
Precisely....Underlying this relationship is deception.
I wonder what her response would have been if she had known that you cd?
She may have been parroting what she thought you might want to hear.
Just a thought.
Monica
Several years ago, while attending a TG convention, I met a Mary Kay lady; who was attending the convention with another vendor. I had known the other vendor for a while, as she sold jewelry at some of the local crossdressing events. I talked to the Mary Kay lady a few times during the week and she gave me her card and told me to call her sometime. Several months later, I called and we made an appointment for a makeover and then the day of the appointment, she cancelled. I mentioned this to my wife and she said that maybe she didn't want to see me; which is what we figured out after the same thing happened a couple more times. She was always nice to me on the phone, but when the time came she just couldn't go through with it and never told me that.
Dana Ryan
I would bet that your friend thinks some women are gross also. I've interacted with girls and women through the years. When I was young more than one girl helped me look and feel like a girl. My landlady who was a beautician taught me how to do my wig and makeup. She encourged me to dress and go out as a girl.
Today I don't try to pass, but enjoy women's casual clothes and do underdress. I get my hair cut and shop in women's sections of the stores and seem to be accepted. I know that it upsets some people and SAs, but others who get to know me are more than happy to see me and help me find what I'm looking for.
One incident, 1 makeup artist, 1 story.
I have had some extremely pleasant experiences with makeup artists and sales associates. I've been around the block, have worked retail myself, and I can tell fake from real. Yes, these people are trying to make a sale but if you have ever worked retail, there are customers that make the experience pleasant and there are difficult customers. Sounds like Keri's friend should look for another line of work.
I will add one thing. What brand does your friend work for? The hipper the brand, the more trans friendly they are going to be. I'm not going to mention any names, but there are department store cosmetic brands that cater to richer, older women. They are not going to want to chat it up with a CD when their bread and butter is in little old snooty-faced ladies!
Debby
of course you now wonder what they think of GG's who come in that won't ever be Miss America. Dang, I wish I had a job where I could cherry pick
The earth is the mother of all people and all people should have equal rights upon it.
Chief Joseph
Nez Perce
“Love isn't a state of perfect caring. It is an active noun like struggle. To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.” - Fred Rogers,
