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  1. #1
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    Debunking: "I like women's clothes"

    We've had countless threads discussing why members crossdress, with a wide variety of answers, such as: it gives comfort, or it is relaxing, it brings joy, it is exciting, it brings happiness, I enjoy being feminine, I want to look beautiful, I hate the way I look as a guy, it is sexual, it is sensual, it makes me feel like myself, it feels normal for me, I have a degree of feminine identity ... and other reasons I'm sure I missed.

    I can understand all of the above reasons, since they either describe deeper motives, or the payoff for dressing. They describe the feelings that individuals get when they dress and we all know that our behaviors are motivated by the prospect of a reward or a punishment. We tend to do things that feel good (eat, sleep, earn incomes, engage in hobbies, be altruistic and help others, crossdress, engage in other pleasant activities, etc). And we tend to not do things that feel bad. Either way, the feeling that we anticipate getting will influence whether we will choose to do something or not.

    But, there are also reasons that I don't understand and they're not reasons, really. They don't indicate how exactly the crossdresser benefits from dressing. These reasons are: "I just like women's clothes. They feel nicer or softer than men's clothes. Women's clothes have a wider variety of styles and colors. Women are allowed to wear pants so why can't men wear skirts." I might even add "It makes me feel good" to this list, since saying this is rather non-descriptive.

    Surely, there must be more to the second set of reasons that explain why a man would risk jeopardizing his marriage and/or a job, and risk subjecting himself to potential ridicule and ostracism from peers … and therefore staying closeted, just because women's clothes "are nicer"? Surely the payoff must be large indeed to risk all those things? Is there no need at all to be feminine, or is it really just because women's clothes come in prettier colors and feel softer?

    … which by the way doesn't make sense if these are the only reasons, because men's clothes also come in silk, cashmere, fine woven soft wools, top grade cottons, and also in a wide array of colors.

    Can anyone tell me why some CDers don't give themselves deeper reasons than just "I think that women's clothes are nicer"?
    Reine

  2. #2
    Lady in Being (7/20/17) AmyGaleRT's Avatar
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    It could be that they haven't really sat down and thought the matter through. It took a long time for me to come to the conclusion that I've voiced here on the forums, which is that I have a part-female soul that I am expressing when en femme. It also took the influence of my fiancee, who believes that her soul is Native American, and got me thinking about the concept of one's soul being of different attributes from one's body. Before that, I might have just latched onto the "I like women's clothes" explanation as a cheap, easy response. It's still true though, I do like the clothes. But I had to dig deeper to figure out why I like them, why I felt happy and contented wearing them.

    - Amy
    Amy Gale Ruth Bowersox (nee Tapie) - "Be who you are, and be it in style!"
    Member, Board of Trustees, Gender Identity Center of Colorado
    aka Amelia Storm - Ms. Majestic Hearts of All Colorado 2018-2019, Miss Majestic Hearts of All Colorado 2015-2016

  3. #3
    Adventuress Kate Simmons's Avatar
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    I agree that there may be some flawed logic and self deception involved but sometimes when any of us get a fixed idea in our head, it's hard to knock it out even with a sledge hammer. Bottom line is it's nice to look nice, simple as that.Many of us just do it because we can and it then turns into a feed back/feed forward process of good feelings. I must admit, however, that the more I get in touch with my inner feelings and motivations, the more I don't see what the big deal is and just do it without the need to justify it.
    Second star to the right and straight on till morning

  4. #4
    Girl from the Eagles Nest reb.femme's Avatar
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    If I could answer your question/s in any meaningful way then I would have written a book about my findings and be a rich man/girl in the process.

    However, I'm purely of the mindset that I like my femininity element that can be expressed whilst presenting as female but I retain my purely masculine side that is so much a part of me. I have only been dressing fully this year since I came out to my wife, and I do feel this lets me show a side of my character that otherwise would be stifled.

    As regards the "ostracism from peers' part, no worries for this 'Billy No Mates'. I left the Forces 20 years ago and returned to the area I grew up in, only to discover that I had changed beyond all recognition from the boy that I was. Maybe I'm a British snob now? I definitely changed socio-economic group, but Trans was never on my list...........or was it?

    Rebecca
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  5. #5
    Member CD Kelley's Avatar
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    This question has been on my mind and has caused me a lot problems ever since my wife asked me "why". I feel that all my life I have tried to fit the image taught to me by the men around me. I do not believe that there is male and female gender but a spectrum from macho to ultra feminine. Men are expected to live in the narrow part of the male end. My personality slides down a bit towards the female end but I dare not show it for fear labels will be attached. When I dress it is like hanging a sign on myself that says I am here on the spectrum don't expect macho. It feels good not to act male, it feels good to relax and let my guard down. When dressed no one expects me to be strong. This is not the whole story but a large portion of it
    The minute you think of giving up think of the reason you held on for so long

  6. #6
    Silver Member Rogina B's Avatar
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    It is something you are born with[at least some of us].No other explanation for it.I,like so many,were curious[almost fixated] on wearing girl clothes.Pre puberty,clothes were the differing thing between sexes..I loved the "Brownie dress"! By puberty,I was seriously envious of girls.As a teen,I wanted that "magical power" so badly and started my pursuits of "absorbing their style"..and this has continued to now. It would all be easy except for the fact that I have been doing the boy life because it is what people born with penises are supposed to do. But,I had to have this "T" feeling at birth and the clothing feelings were the confirmation of it.It is too common a theme to be dismissed easily.
    It SURE is my hair ! I have the receipt and the box it came in !

  7. #7
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    This question has plagued me for years, and I've considered and rejected many theories of my own over the years. Since joining this forum, it's been interesting to see what others claim are the reasons for their own dressing, but I'm still not totally sure why I do it. For me, it's not really about the styling, colours and materials, although I can see why some argue that. You can now buy men's clothes in similar styles and much the same materials. I wouldn't argue that men's cotton underwear is any more coarse than women's cotton underwear, and in many cases it's a lot more uncomfortable to wear women's underwear than it is to wear men's, simply because knickers weren't designed to fit men.
    For me, it's the fact that they're women's clothes, and that makes them magical in some way. The women's clothes I own I would never have bought had they been hanging in the men's section, because that would make them utterly humdrum. Wearing women's clothes makes me feel very close to the women and femininity I adore. For example, I'm obviously very close to my wife when we're making love, but I think that in a sense, wearing women's clothes makes me feel even closer than that. I don't know why. I think maybe that it's the closest I can get to feeling how a woman feels as she goes through her day - by reproducing the tactile feelings she must be experiencing on her body. That's obviously a pretty shallow experience of womanhood, but I still find it exhilarating. Maybe that's also because of the taboo nature of cross-dressing for men.

    There's probably more to it than that, but I can't put my finger on it and I don't have time for more analysis right now. I'll keep my eye on this thread and post back if I come up with something else!

  8. #8
    Complex Lolita...
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReineD
    Can anyone tell me why some CDers don't give themselves deeper reasons than just "I think that women's clothes are nicer"?
    [SIZE="2"]The short answer is that men’s clothes CONCEAL, and women’s clothes REVEAL, something I will elaborate on at length if you’re interested, but it'll probably be a waste of my time (and yours). It’s true that fine men’s clothing has plenty of tactile splendor, obtained at a steep price, and it can mollify the sensualist a little, but why not get the REALLY good stuff and have fun challenging gender boundaries at the same time? Why, indeed...

    I’m glad you chimed in on this topic, Reine, because your consistent non-understanding attitude on this subject inspired my thread OP titled “I like to wear women’s clothes.” It really CAN be that simple – I don’t understand why you keep insisting there has to be more to it than that! For some of us, I mean. I get the feeling that from your “position” as a GG, this fetishistic interest in something forbidden just cannot be understood, but can you at least appreciate the fact that many MtF crossdressers just dress because they like the clothes? It may go beyond that, or it might not, or it may be something else entirely, but consistent resistance to simple truths expressed on this site only clouds the CD mind and makes everything much more complicated – does it have to be like this? I get the feeling that I could write until my fingers are blue, but it’ll make no difference to you – there MUST be something else, I hear you say, but unless you ARE a MtF crossdresser, or you understand ALL types of MtF CD'ers, well, what’s the sense of trying to explain things? It’s frustrating, to be sure, especially when YOU are openly trying to “debunk” things – are you trying to debunk the pleasures of MtF crossdressing, and make it into a purely pathological exercise? Does this qualify as support?

    I can’t hang around to discuss this. If it wasn’t the wee hours I would “say” more – maybe later. BTW, you also inspired my thread OP about us MtF crossdressers all trying to be “beautiful women.” That’s another one of your misconceptions. I should take this opportunity to thank for the inspiration, or the ammunition, however you wish to look at it. PLEASE give me (us) a break...


    You know, I get the feeling that you don't like US...
    [/SIZE]

  9. #9
    MIDI warrior princess Amy Fakley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frédérique View Post
    [The short answer is that men’s clothes CONCEAL, and women’s clothes REVEAL ...
    there is something to this, but in my view it points to something deeper (as ReineD suggests). Female clothes are different in terms of intention than men's clothes, and Frédérique is completely right to point that out. Women's clothes celebrate the wearer's form, while men's clothes don't ... more than don't ... one might say the actively go in the opposite direction except in very rare edge cases.

    Brains are complicated things ... we live in a world of symbols, in fact symbols are at the core of human intelligence.
    I can only speak from my personal experience, but I strongly suspect that my desire to emulate the appearance and mannerisms of females is linked to the symbolism of the objects involved. For instance this wonderful little black dress I'm wearing right now is designed to show off curves. I don't have too many to start with, but it certainly amplifies what few I have in a flattering way.

    Feminine curves are a symbol. We humans understand them as an alias for other things commonly associated with females ... softness, empathy, nurturing, emotional awareness, sexuality, etc, etc.

    So I wear these kinds of things, when I want to celebrate those aspects of my personality. Because at a real basic level I seem to tend toward those stereotypically feminine traits no matter how I'm dressed.

    That's as much of an understanding of this as I've managed to muster so far anyhow ...
    Last edited by Amy Fakley; 01-28-2013 at 01:30 PM.
    "Why shouldn't art be pretty? There are enough unpleasant things in the world." -Pierre-Auguste Renoir

  10. #10
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    Starts a topic the never responds not sure why the op'er posted it.
    Seems she has a problem taking an answer at face value for what it is.
    No one answer is the same for everyone.

  11. #11
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    Quick clarification for everyone, so that we may avoid arguing over a term which we have not defined.

    "Transgender is an umbrella term for persons whose gender identity, gender expression, or behavior does not conform to that typically associated with the sex to which they were assigned at birth."

    (Source: American Psychological Association)

    We must remember that this term does not, in and of itself, refer to a necessary gender binary. It includes all expressions which may deviate from assigned gender. A man wearing a dress, for the purpose of expressing femininity (<---caveat), is exhibiting a transgender behavior. The word "transgender" does not serve to reinforce the gender binary, but merely uses it as a point of reference in a society which subscribes to it wholly. There's all sorts of blur to the line and overlapping within the transgender category.

    I personally believe that we should define it as loosely as possible, while subcategories (transsexual, cross dresser, gender-fluid) are more rigorously defined. Form communities as you must, but do not operate on extremely strict rules as to who can be what. All Reine is asking is "How can x (said gender-deviant behavior) occur as an isolated act when all human behaviors involve intent and symbolism". I know that's a troubling question to many of you, and that you don't want to answer it. You don't have to, she's merely posing it. We all, within this community, have similarities and differences. We should handle discussions of our differences with patience and a desire to inform. No one is attempting to start a labeling war anyone here.
    Last edited by SarahMarie42; 01-28-2013 at 04:19 PM.
    "None is more cruel and violent than the coward"
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  12. #12
    I just Love being a Gurl! bobbimo's Avatar
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    WOW Freddie, that's the shortest email I've ever seen you write!
    But I fully appreciate Reine's wonder. My wife is the same way, and there are millions more out there that cant give a definitive answer either.
    I enjoy dressing because its a wonderful DIY project. I love fixing things and making wrecks become functional.
    The feeling of picking out an outfit, doing make up, hair, shoes and jewelry, and being happy with the reflection in the mirror is just amazing.
    The only close experience I can relate, is when I drive my old Mazda PU, it serves its purpose and there is no hurry, or much fun in going down a long wide stretch of highway. However give the same stretch of highway in my Vette.... well the road just has to be driven!
    For me dressing is a drive in my Vette, makes me smile and what a thrill.
    Bobbi
    Aint nothin gonna happen that aint supposed too!

  13. #13
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    I have been struggling to find a meaningful (or deeper) answer to why we choose to cross dress and risk so much. I recently separated from my wife and me being a CD was the real deal breaker for her. I believe that i am a good person but as much as i try i can not give up this part of me. All i can come up with is that this part of me is programmed in my genes and it is instinctive. In my case i enjoy both my male and female appearance.

    I know that this really doesn't not fit my theory of CD programmed in my genes but sometimes I wonder if we lived in a world where there were not a huge variance between the male and female appearance in the society such as it was common for both man and woman to use make up, wear skirts, wear high heels, remove body hair, have long hair, wear nail polish ect ect...then maybe i would be just normal.

  14. #14
    Junior Member genevie's Avatar
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    At it's most basic: Part of me wants to be a girl. Its not all of me. I don't want to transition. That part gets to express itself when I dress. At that time I could cry for the relief and rightness of it. I don't think some of us are born all one sex. Lucky for us or unlucky for us. The expression of the betweeners is not as easy in our society. But if we are lucky, we might find likeminded folks who we can share our thoughts.
    Gen


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    I've been trying to figure it out for more than thirty years and still don't have an answer that would likely satisfy you. I decided years ago that even if I had a reason that made sense to other people it likely wouldn't change my behaviour, so I would just accept it for what it is. Dressing is something I still really enjoy and have enjoyed for those same thirty plus years. How many things in life can you say that about? For me not many, so I've come to accept my dressing without fully understanding it or even needing to fully understand it.

  16. #16
    Silver Member Debra Russell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genevie View Post
    At it's most basic: Part of me wants to be a girl. Its not all of me. I don't want to transition. That part gets to express itself when I dress. At that time I could cry for the relief and rightness of it. I don't think some of us are born all one sex. Lucky for us or unlucky for us. The expression of the betweeners is not as easy in our society. But if we are lucky, we might find likeminded folks who we can share our thoughts.
    I think a great many of us feel this way - I know I do .... the clothes take me to a different place -- and it's so comforting...................Debra

  17. #17
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    I took the notion to dress enfemme all day yesterday because it felt right to me.
    No deep seated reason for it that I can think of.

  18. #18
    Gold Member Marleena's Avatar
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    Why is the sky blue? N/m that one is easy to find out. Good luck getting to the bottom of this Reine.

  19. #19
    Silver Member Joanne f's Avatar
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    As you said there are a lot of reasons given that try to explain why someone likes to cross dress and I am sure that some of the simplest reasons given are the reasons for that particular person and if it was not for the fact that the clothes were originally intended for female's then there would not be the necessity to explain why you like to wear a particular type of clothing , I am just wondering if a female was asked the same question would you get similar answers but for some there is obviously a deeper reason in that it works as a pathway, bridge, physical connection to an inner side of you that you need to find a way to express and the one thing you left out , To feel normal , I am sure that most females have exactly the same reasons for liking to wear certain types of clothing and for some unknown reason there seems to be a growing number of males that have a similar reason to do the same yet society makes us have to explain why, maybe that is the unfair bit about cross dressing ( which I expect also apply's to FtM who no doubt have to explain why they do not like girlie clothes ) , it is conditioned into us that males should like one thing and females should like another yet society seems to be embracing the way females can act,do or dress, and even be the bread winner of the family maybe it is time that for a certain group of males we caught up with that or society caught up with us , apart from that I have not got a clue but the next time you put on something that makes you feel good about your self , ( I will not say sexy as I am sure that you are sexy whatever you are wearing and it would not be right for me to do so , but you are ) Ok just slapped my self so no need for you to do so , yes the next time just think that there are males about who feel just the same way and it is as simple as that , just had to slap myself again I am getting sidetracked of your question
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Joanne

  20. #20
    Member andrea lace's Avatar
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    I dress because it makes me feel sexy it turns me on but doesn't always lead to sex. My wife says I am less stressed when I am dressed and tend to continue this for the rest of the day even when I return to drab.

  21. #21
    Senior Member Amanda M's Avatar
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    Could it be that they just don't need to?
    If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got!

  22. #22
    Platinum Member Beverley Sims's Avatar
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    I think those that just like womens clothes are just starting out or have not looked at any underlying reasons for it.
    Closer to the truth it may be that they do not want to reveal any inner feelings they may have.
    Work on your elegance,
    and beauty will follow.

  23. #23
    Aussie girl enjoying life Michelle (Oz)'s Avatar
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    Oh Reine. I much prefer it when you are giving your views. I now have to put my thinking cap on.

    My dressing has cost me one wife and could have (and still might) a second wife. There are significant financial costs in dressing - even a good deal of additional luggage to cart around when travelling. So the cost part of the equation is high.

    Frankly though I don't know why I dress at such a high cost. I used to, on occasions, try to understand but now just accept. Presenting as totally female to the limit of my ability sure gives me an absolute high when out dressed. I love the planning and try to perfect the execution. It brings me joy and happiness. I meet and interact with friendly accepting people that I would never otherwise meet. I do things that my male trained mind sometimes wonders about my sanity - but when totally en femme such thoughts are overtaken by the joy, the sense of 'rightness'.

    I don't find wearing female clothes at home sufficient. It needs to be the full female expression out in the community. But I'm still using words like 'joy' and I do like the 'feel' of female clothes.

    So, I dunno.
    Last edited by Michelle (Oz); 01-28-2013 at 08:08 AM.

  24. #24
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    An interesting question, and one I haven't really come across yet. I can definitely see how the second set of reasons you list (the ones you don't accept) seem to be less fundamental ones, or really they are just effects of another, more deep reason. Why aren't people more circumspect about it? That's hard to say, but it isn't behavior that is limited to cross-dressing. A lot of people cannot give you deep, fundamental reason for holding the political leanings that they do.

  25. #25
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    The catch is with those simple statements, is that they are true. I learned you can't discredit feelings if you express them, so going the simple route first is a great way to come out to someone. That's how I did it to come out to my entire family. I think those statements are necessary to convey a simplicity in crossdressing, and to downplay it as a simple aspect of ones personality to other people.

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