Male-to-Female crossdressers get NO respect

[SarahMarie42]

People often worry too much about whether others fully "understand" them, even when "misunderstanding" isn't accompanied by any form of active or even passive oppression.

Things you should reasonably worry about:

1. Not a lack of definition, but the attribution of definition in such a way that it informs behavior or precludes you from proper expression. A lack of definition without further attribution can never exceed neutrality, as traits must be targeted in order for positive or negative judgments to be made, and those who may attribute some sort of subconscious desire to your behavior which has nothing to do with what is or isn't moral are only speculating as to the causes of a behavior which is, on the surface, already present and already tolerated or even accepted. Getting one's panties in a bunch over perfection of understanding will result in an eternal clash of wills and permanent unhappiness and failure in trying to win the clash.

2. Ends. By ends, I mean "the goals which you have set for your behavior". If you want to be addressed as and treated as a woman, and receiving such an address or such treatment would cause no one else excessive and reasonable discomfort, you should receive it. However, if one is confused as to the purposes and still willing to oblige you, you should not worry about that. It, at the surface level, at the observable level, would not affect you even minimally.

Ideal social circumstances will never be achieved, focus on achieving those circumstances which allow you to be you, and damn all the rest.

[thewife/soon2bex]

There are some here that I have respect for:

Those that put the needs of their SO first and let them know who they are thereby giving them the choice to stay or not to stay.

There are those that accept themselves and not force their CD'ing on others thereby "moving at a pace that is best for their SO or W".

There are those here that show compassion for others who do not embrace the lifestyle.

There are those here who after many years, do the right thing and let their partner know.

They have earned thier respect from others and from me.

[Krististeph]

I don't expect any for of respect for anything transgendered, except allowing people to do as they feel they should. Kind of a problem drawing the line as to what should be 'allowed' and not. Fundamentalists will have a conniption (I love that word, and would love to find a video link to a medical web site illustrating the clinical definition of 'a conniption')

I enjoy the respect that spending money on female clothes gets me, but i don't think these sales associates have any respect beyond that. Oh sure, some may come to realize the many CDs are quite decent people, and cause no harm, and may even enjoy helping them find stuff in the store. they get great raves to their managers for customer service, no doubt.

But here's why I think we will not get respect simply for who we are or what we do.

I have no respect for NASCAR. hey, i even went to school once with one of the racers from a nascar family. he died, too bad, he was okay, but really kind of cocky- too confident and didn't respect danger like his (still living) father did, but he was okay. But would I respect him? No. I like formula one racing better- more on the edge- more variety, greater variety of things to mess up on. But do I respect the teams or drivers? No. Well, maybe Ferrari- but for other reasons (use of computers for traction control and outstanding styling through the years). How about moto-GP racers? I've had several motorcycles, and layed one down in a corner once, so i respect their bravery and skill for holding so close to the edge of traction, constantly through various turns and rises and dips on the track, I consider the sport to be 'cool' to watch once in a while. Respect? No.

Respect to me is somethign earned by an individual outside of their associations. One of my supervisors decades ago was a early version of a fundamentalist. He knew my agnostic feelings then, but we got along great- he treated other well, never preached- led by example. Not by claiming the god gave him the right to tell others what to do.

Respect is for the students who come to my classes, listening to me drone, digress, and dote on their efforts- they stay with the program despite having some troubles. I respect them for making the effort to learn something new. To look at things in various new ways. To admitting they have trouble with a concept that high school or even jr High should have prepared them for easily.

I respect most of my clients- for effort in helping me with my job (say field service), putting up with occasional delays, letting me teach them things about the equipment they probably already knew, and for telling me if they think they may have inadvertently caused the problem.

But it also comes to something Brendan Frasier's character in _Blast from the past_.. "<his mother told him> good manners are how we show respect for others". I make it a point to be formally polite when first meeting someone: This says you give them credit for being as respect-worthy as anyone else i've met, and it shows forethought, I think. So when someone does the same (greets me formally), I've reason to believe they are willing to but their interests second to the interaction, and focus on the solution or goal at hand.

But for crossdressing in itself, no. But for someone who comports themselves in a manner reasonable to having decent manners, yes. Unfortunately, most people do not bother to notice this.

Yes it does hurt, but respect just for the sake of respect dilutes the value.

You cannot control the actions of others to any significant extent, but you can control your own actions. As unrewarding as this is, this is what's for dinner.

For me, mere acceptance without too much visual or behavioral disdain is reasonable and sufficient.

People will always tend be wary of someone different than themselves or their social group- this is an evolved survival instinct. Even in the middle east, people will prioritize their clans / families over their religion.

My respect for you, Frédérique, is that you continue to send us very nice short essays despite the negativity of a minority us. The greater good and all that. That, and the consistency of your writing, that's impressive to me. But about your CD for pleasure? It does not enter the question: you deem it appropriate and legitimate, and that's good enough because of your refusing to stoop to negativity.

Oh yeah, and also because you dress nicely!

P.S.: I found these to photos recently that reminded me of your avatar.

[Maria S]

Dear Freddy

What happened to shorter versions of posts?

Maria

[Deedee Skyblue]

No one DESERVES respect! It's like money. U must earn it!

Sort of changed my mind on this one. But I would say it this way: "Continued respect must be earned." I give anyone who is human an certain amount of respect until I actually interact with a person, after which my continued respect depends on what happens in those interactions. So, yes, respect must be earned.

Deedee

[Nikki50/50]

Well...you certainly demonstrate an eloquence borne of a powerful and educated intellect. Cheers to you! However, I did not come to stroke egos.
To the matter at hand; you raise some interesting points, some of which I'd like to address, others...not so much. Not necessary. On respect: Yes, respect is quite important. Yes, respect earned is the better respect to have. Respect given initially is more of a common courtesy. But within the parameters of a social norm that we as crossdressers deliberately deviate from, respect as a common courtesy will, more often than not; only exist within our circles. Likeminded others, and such.
Why are we generally disresepected? Frowned upon? Reviled and scorned? Because we are not understood. Many of us cannot even understand ourselves. Why do people (not just MtF) dress as the opposite genetic gender? No-one really seems to know. We all have our reasons, and though you will find similarities, and the occasional parallel, there are no two reasons quite the same. How CAN we be understood? Why SHOULD we? Now in some ways it sounds as if you have a reason to demand respect, as if it is deserved by default. Perhaps it is. We defiantly deviate the social standards of acceptable behavior in an effort to say This Is Me and I Like Being Me, Deal With It, and THAT deserves SOMETHING in the line of respect. People who looking at us from the outside have difficulty wrapping their mind around the concept that we do as we will, with no real reason that can be explained. We as humans have historically persecuted and/or destroyed that which we did or could not understand. Therefore, respect is hard for them to find . Be patient with them. They will come around. I did.
People fear the unknown. I know I'm going to get razed a little for pulling this quote from a time before my own, but I love this quote from a movie called Easy Rider:

George Hanson: You know, this used to be a helluva good country. I can't understand what's gone wrong with it.
Billy: Man, everybody got chicken, that's what happened. Hey, we can't even get into like, a second-rate hotel, I mean, a second-rate motel, you dig? They think we're gonna cut their throat or somethin'. They're scared, man.
George Hanson: They're not scared of you. They're scared of what you represent to 'em.
Billy: Hey, man. All we represent to them, man, is somebody who needs a haircut.
George Hanson: Oh, no. What you represent to them is freedom.
Billy: What the hell is wrong with freedom? That's what it's all about.
George Hanson: Oh, yeah, that's right. That's what's it's all about, all right. But talkin' about it and bein' it, that's two different things. I mean, it's real hard to be free when you are bought and sold in the marketplace. Of course, don't ever tell anybody that they're not free, 'cause then they're gonna get real busy killin' and maimin' to prove to you that they are. Oh, yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom. But they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em.
Billy: Well, it don't make 'em runnin' scared.
George Hanson: No, it makes 'em dangerous

[NicoleScott]

A lack of definition without further attribution can never exceed neutrality, as traits must be targeted in order for positive or negative judgments to be made, and those who may attribute some sort of subconscious desire to your behavior which has nothing to do with what is or isn't moral are only speculating as to the causes of a behavior which is, on the surface, already present and already tolerated or even accepted.

Well, that certainly clears it up!

[Jenni Yumiko]

Well, that certainly clears it up!

Very few people make me feel illiterate. Sarah's erudite nature makes me run to google define: at least once a post

[NicoleScott]

Very few people make me feel illiterate. Sarah's erudite nature makes me run to google define: at least once a post

Some people write in order to communicate. Others, to impress.
Maybe I need to go to the crossdressingfordummies forum.

[April_Ligeia]

There are some things that garner respect within a subculture, but not within the culture at large. For example, I am heavily tattooed, and I am respected, and respect, other tattooed people because of common experience. Non-tattooed people don't understand how painful it is to be tattooed on say the collarbone or the shins. When I see another tattooed person, there is an acknowledgement of that. I don't expect that respect from anyone who hasn't gone through it, and that's okay. I also don't care about their criticisms, either. They aren't part of the subculture, so their opinions are worthless.