Wife Changed From "OK" to "Not OK?"

[Ann Louise]

I'm relatively new to being out to my wife, and to this forum, too, and I've read numerous times in brief comments here and there that many who have successfully come out to their wives were met initially by a period of acceptance, but unfortunately this acceptance evolved into a state of DADT or outright rejection.

I feel very happy right now with my wife and my outing to her last December, but I detect a low-level near-constant worry in the back of my mind that she'll change. I'm doing a lot of reading and study of trans* books about this out there on the market, but would really appreciate hearing from those of us who have experienced this change from "ok" to "not OK" first hand. Was this change evidence of you both stepping through the "stages of grieving," and you have a good future together, or is it stuck at the "not OK" stage?

Thank you for thinking this over and commenting, Elfin

[April_Ligeia]

My ex-wife used to flip back and forth on her acceptance, from accepting to downright hostile. However, that is just how she was about everything. I think she used crossdressing as something to hold against me, and was supportive periodically so I would continue to give her something to later complain about. It was pretty sick.
My current girlfriend has been supportive and encouraging for about two years with no flip flopping. I think it depends entirely on the individual. I believe that if your wife is truly okay with your crossdressing, she will probably not attack you. On the other hand, it can be a convenient 'go to' argument if someone likes to argue. I hope all remains peaceful for you and hopefully there is no other shoe to drop.

[Beverley Sims]

I think the best way to attack this problem is before it starts.
You may be progressing too quickly and smothering your wife's acceptance of everything.
If you keep at a slow rate and let her keep asking you to do something more you are probably at the right speed.
As I have said to others do not prompt her with "How do I look now, do I look sexy, would you like me to wear this or do that."
These scenarios all put pressure on your wife and probably at the wrong time.
She does have to be in the mood to want to partake in CD activities.
So just because she is accepting she has flat periods as well and too much pressure at the wrong time could burst the bubble.

[Kate Simmons]

Some wives feel that if they "give and inch", we will "take a mile" and continue pushing the envelope. You may note concern in relation to them considering what the relationship may be if things are taken that far. In my case, my wife never gave me that latitude but religion was involved as well with all the accompanying guilt trips. If a relationship is to truly succeed it needs to be an equal partnership, plain and simple. Sometimes in view or our status, it becomes incumbent on each of us to decide what is more important, our relationship with our SO or our femme self.

[sometimes_miss]

We're in a society where women share a tremendous amount of information about their relationships with other people. Women have always done that; including intimate details of their sex lives, while maintaining that men simply not ever 'kiss and tell'. It's the same as the honesty thing; women insist that men be completely honest with them about all things, while retaining the privilege of deception for themselves. My ex initially thought she could deal with it (the crossdressing); as time went on, and she joined various support groups, she became less and less accepting, eventually becoming enraged that I had the audacity to 'deceive' her about who I was, and then sued me for divorce, while blackmailing me over the crossdressing. So there are always outside forces at work as well, influencing her about how she feels. And, they will support HER, not your crossdressing. Remember, to them and her, YOU'RE the pervert, not her; YOU'RE the deceiver, not her. Add that together, and you've got a tough road ahead of you. Good luck; I didn't have any. All I can add is, prepare for the worst, because if it happens, you're truly screwed.

[Barbara Ella]

This did happen to me, and it was the emotional uncertainty that pushed her back. I told her immediately after I realized who I really was. She cried for three weeks. Then she became totally supportive, and we went shopping together (not dressed) and I dressed at home, fell femme, with makeup and wigs we bought together. After 3 months of constant uncertainty about where I would go in the future, she could not take it, and it became a DADT with no communication, but the understanding that I could dress in private. Now she is open to discussions and jokes, but will not see me dressed.

She is intellectually supportive of me, and wants me to find my true self, but is totally scared of the end result, and I think she feels that any support will be interpreted as a sign to move ahead at full speed. She remarked several months ago that she had a very nice nude lipstick she had bought for me, but did not want to give it to me because "what signal would that send?" I did not push it not question her, nor ask for it.

We have been married 42 years now, retired, and she thought our last years together were settled (I have only been dressing for 17 months now), and having her long ago earned last restful years jerked away from her has been very unsettling. She has no problem with crossdressing, crossdressers, TG, TS, etc, and would not be uncomfortable with having them in our home, dressed, etc. But not me. The husband - wife connection is very strong and complicated.

Barbara

[Stephanie47]

Good morning Loving,

I went back and read your introductory post. As an older CD-er coming out to a wife after fourteen years she may have needed some time to absorb your revelation. You indicated two things that may have been unexpected, cross dressing and bisexuality. I think many wives initially just on the bandwagon to support the person they love. Then reality sets in. It seems doubts start to arise. "What is this guy all about?" "What other things did he not tell me?" It would not surprise me if each wife does not do a mental flip flop many times. The question becomes, how will she display the flip flopping? From reading on this forum for several years it seems some just withdraw and others rant and rave and everything in between.

In my case, I did not out myself to my wife in the sense of sitting down over coffee and saying, "Oh, by the way I love to wear women's clothing, makeup and a wig!" It was a progression from mutually acceptable "bedroom play." I am probably as old as you. Back in the 1950's and 1960's and 1970's cross dressing was something to hide. I did sneak and wear my mother's clothing as a kid. However, that urge went away for several years. When I met my future wife I did think about it from the sense of confusion. Why did I do that stuff???? I knew I had no desire to be with a man. I figured it was a youthful passing and an outlet for sexual relief. But, that was not the case. After several years of marriage my wife discovered me standing in the kitchen drinking a glass of water. She asked why I was wearing her gown. I told her I liked the feel of the nylon on my body, which was the true extent of my thoughts at the time. We ended up buying me some nightgowns and hosiery for bedroom play. When our child was born, she asked that I not wear the attire to bed, as out son shared the bedroom in our one bedroom apartment. I was OK with that. Later I began progressing into cross dressing; slips and a bra. That confused my wife. That turned her off. We had one of those discussions. It became DADT. I'm fine with that. She knows I indulge in her absence. Once in awhile she will find a bra or panty I failed to put away. She'll tell me she put it in the wash area, and, that's it.

She hasn't flip flopped. However, I know she is uncomfortable with movies like "Tootsie" and "Mrs. Doubtfire."

Once she did say, if she had known about my cross dressing, she would not have married me. BUT, she also said in that conversation she wished she had not told me of her youthful sordid exploits because then she could have walked away. With her history, she would have been two faced. I doubt many men would have married her with her disclosures. I just accepted her for who she was, her good qualities. And, maybe it did go through my mind, how could I reject her considering maybe my cross dressing would arise in the future.

So, you do have something to 'fear.' Will the flip flopping arise? How will you handle it, if it does? What happens if the marriage becomes cold?

Frankly, I've resolved in my mind, considering my forty years of marriage, I would rather live alone exploring who I am, rather than live together in a contentious atmosphere for the rest of my life.

I wish you the best.

[mikiSJ]

I have been married 37 years and I told my wife before we married about my crossdressing. She was understanding and tolerant and I kept the dressing very private, just between the two of us and we had an unspoken compromise

I was "retired" last May and with all of the extra time on my hands I started to explore more of Miki than I had before. I finally got to the point where I had to discuss my need to get out and meet other CDers. BAM!! For about a week our marriage was very iffy. One the one hand I wanted to explore Miki, on the other hand my wife brought up the "promises" I made 37 years ago.

Fortunately, our marriage is strong and we were able to work through the issue and we have reached a compromise. I fully understand how a wife/SO can be initially accepting of CDing but have an extreme reaction when the CDer wants to explore more.

Talk! Talk! Talk! Talk! Maybe you never find an acceptable position, but if you don't talk about it, you'll never know.

[Ms. Laura]

My wife has known for over 20 years and has not flip-flopped in being OK with crossdressing. She's not thrilled by it bu not really against it either. I only mention this for 2 reasons.

1. It is possible for a wife to actually be accepting.

2. I always THINK she has become resentful or unaccepting and she straightens me outand I apologize for being an idiot.

So, don't create a self-fulfilling prophecy. As others have said, go SLOWLY, don't overload her, talk it out.

Good Luck!

[Melissa Rose]

As others have mentioned, communication is key, but so does understanding that things change. In the early stages, many spouses tolerate and/or accept on an intellectual level; however, as time progresses and more knowledge is obtained by spouses, and more is revealed via cross dressing behaviors and actions, acceptance on an emotional level does not progress or develop or it may shift. The initial intellectual acceptance or tolerance may be interpreted as total acceptance, thus taken as permission to fully explore and expand cross dressing. Between being enveloped in pink fog and the excitement about the new found freedom, boundaries and comfort zones get pushed. The spouse feels they were conned by a bait and switch, thus the game and rules changed. The cross dresser is then blind sided by what appears to be a change or reversal in spousal acceptance when it really was the cross dresser being blind to their changing of the "game", making too many assumptions, and failing to sufficiently communicate. The falling out becomes emotional and less purely rational (i.e., intellectual) since it is the level of emotional acceptance that is upset. Tolerance is not the same as acceptance. Every spouse and relationship is different so no one should expect or demand the high level of acceptance some have with their spouses. Somewhere is a middle ground where both can reside, but there is no one size fits all recipe or instructions.

[NicoleScott]

Just wondering if she has detected changes in you. Is she losing her man?

[Ann Louise]

Just wondering if she has detected changes in you. Is she losing her man?

You are asking a good question Nicole. I'm seeing a gender counselor now and am earnestly trying to work that out. As I've mentioned in a few earlier posts, I'm finding that clothes are a key to a door leading inward towards the woman in me, not ends-in-themselves. I'm very much loving my newly freed feminine nature; it's exciting and wonderful, and I'm very pleased that my wife is accepting, but at the same time it's very frightening, too. I don't WANT to lose her.

My externals? Well, I'm more loving of her, and everyone else, too. And I don't feel my formerly instinctive confrontational approach to problems by donning "my big boy pants" (sic) nearly as much lately, though that still creeps in from time to time, though. I know I'm different, but I think for the better. If that's "losing the man" in me then I'm really confused!

Thank you everyone so much for sharing with me the comments and wisdom that I know you have. A deeply felt hug to you all, Elfin

[Joanne f]

When I told my wife first of all there was a reluctant " I will see how it go's" , then it turned into " I can not cope with this " and I think the reason for that was partly due to the lack of knowledge and partly because one of her best friends was getting to her about it so I decided to try and stay off the dressing but my wife could see that this was getting at me so she said " OK if you must then do it when you are in another room " so we tried that but then my wife said "This is silly , you in one room and me in another, so she aloud me to be around her when I had something on , which I will say was only a skirt and top , no wig or makeup, we went thought the usual questions and even met a couple of so called knowledgeable people ( they did not have a clue what it was about ) by then my wife was getting use to me being like it and could see that it made me happy and now she completely embraces it/me to the point of she accepts it even more than I do as like today I had a special reason to send her a text and I thought it would be right to send it in my birth name and I got an instant reply " and Joanne " so I had to resend one singed Joanne , so things can change but for now I think that you should ask yourself what are you doing differently now than from when your wife first started to accept it , it may be possible that you are just going to fast for your wife and therefore need to slow down and the only way that you will know is to communicate with your wife about the situation and come up with something that will suit you both .

[wilt575]

Just wondering if she has detected changes in you. Is she losing her man?

In my case it wasn't is she loosing her man. After years of acceptence and doing things together, she suddenly came ot with no more with me. I think what happened is a couple of our friends commented I was starting to look better than her. Moral of this story don't outdress you wife!!!

[thewife/soon2bex]

I am actually typing this in another document so that I don’t hit post until I try and address everything I want to say. Chemo brain sometimes makes me post too early and I don’t get to say everything I want and need to say. (doing chemo now so my brain does not always work the way I need it too LOL)
I have learned so much about what I have been feeling as I learned about the secrets kept. At first, I was in shock. The first day when I approached him, he kept telling me to “yell at him, hit him etc”. All I could say was “I am numb”. And I truly was. I did not know what or how to feel.

As time went on his “pink fog” rolled in. When everything came out, he went full steam ahead. His need to be “her” was put ahead of my needs and feelings. Everything began to become too real to quick when the items began to show up in the home I was living in with him. It was as if he felt that if I knew it was automatically ok to go full steam ahead.

I had many of the same questions other W have had. My answers came from others here. I was told by my H that unless I could be unemotional I was not allowed to discuss it with him. He wanted me to go to a counselor with him and I said no. Why? I had a hard enough time telling my counselor let alone someone else. I was humiliated. I was angry. I was hurt worse then I had ever been hurt in my life. My security was taken away. I felt betrayed. He felt that he did nothing wrong. He felt justified in keeping it from me because he chose not to tell me – because I “failed” the tests that he did over the years without my knowledge. The same tests many here to say use to “test” the W.

In our 20+ yr marriage I never yelled and we never fought. When this came out, about a month after finding everything, I yelled. I was hurt, angry, confused and just lost. Everything that I believed was not longer true. He never apologized for any of the lies. He never admitted (and still hasn’t) that it was not about the clothes. But, I have come to realization that I will never receive the apology I desperately wanted back then. He had no problem with me leaving because he could then do everything he wanted to do.

But, if I could give any advice I would say, take responsibility for your part in it. Be patient and understand there will be many levels of feelings that will be felt by her. Give her time to process all of the feelings. Be there when she needs to cry or yell. If you truly love her, let her show how she is feelings. Mine never did and I think if he had it might have made a difference.

But, now it is just to late.

[linda allen]

I would say that a wife might be OK with her husband dressing as a woman from time to time, but if it becomes full time, if there is talk of "transexual feelings" or SRS, it becomes a different matter.

[Nicole Erin]

Yeah just don't let it take over everything.
spouses do tend to flip-flop about their feelings.

YOu should not sit around and worry about "what if". Keep in mind she could decide not to approve but just cross that bridge if it is come to. If she decides not to approve, she will probably say the exact problem with it. some solutions -
If she says you dress too much, cut back or do it more when she is not about.
If she just hates it - just do the DADT thing.

On a good note - at least you don't have to hide things.

I think though that marriages that break off over TG'ness have more problems than just a husband dressing as a woman.

[Joanne f]

Thewife, it is good to hear a wife's point of view lets hope it will give some something to think about before it is to late .

[Michelle 51]

Just wondering if she has detected changes in you. Is she losing her man?

Think you are quite close to the truth Nicole.depends how serious it gets.If they think it's harmless fun for us it's ok but if they sense they are losing their husband it can be a game changer.

[MonicaCD]

OMG what an awesome thread! This right here is why I am so glad to have found this place.

I truly value that all of you have taken the time to detail out the things you've experienced in your relationships with your spouses.

I'm still feeling my way through this part of me. It's something I've been doing for 40 years now, and although my wife was exposed to that side of me early in our dating life, it's been a cyclic thing with me - sometimes in remission, sometimes in full pink fog bloom - and one that we're still working through.

Your stories have given me a lot to think about, and for everyone who's shared those precious details, I can only say: "Merci beaucoup et bon chance!"

[melissakozak]

Our partners have their own issues, and I can't stand it when a crossdresser tells his spouse/partner, but I am still the same person. NO. You are not, and wives and partners may initially be curious, but as is always said, it's all fun and games until someone gets hurt, and in our respective cases, a partner's response can shift over time. My wife has known about me since before we got married, and we have been married for over twenty years now. No doubt, the level of acceptance has ebbed and changed, gone up and down. The bottom line is, she is not very crazy about it, and I bet most spouses fall into this category of 'acceptance.' Some have DADT policies, some want to know everything, some realize, as my wife has, that for me at least, this is way beyond wearing the clothes....and thus, our spouses feel threatened we might transition, threatened by an invisible woman we seem to have inside of us, and threatened by the fear of what others might think if they find out. The list of fears goes on and on and on....the list of positives seems to be far, far shorter.

I highly recommend counseling for couples with regard to us. Our spouses need a sounding board and support for their feelings. Marrying or having a long term relationship is hard; add the TG thing and it becomes that much harder.

[Bree Wagner]

I've described my wife's acceptance as a rollercoaster ride with lots of twists and turns, but there have really been three main phases of the ride. I told her about it soon after we started dating and at the time she was very accepting of underdressing and it never seemed to be a problem though it really didn't extend outside the house. (Phase 1) Looking back I think that some of her reaction may have been that if she rejected that part of me she may have lost me. After we were married there may have been less of a need for her to 'pretend' though I'm not sure that's what it was all about. It could just be that she changed and couldn't deal with it for one reason or another. Crossdressing didn't totally leave our lives, and the lines of communication remained open, but it was definitely on the back burner for about 10 years. (Phase 2)

Luckily for me, since we did keep talking, things have changed again. We had a big heart-to-heart a little over a year ago and she became a lot more supportive. (Phase 3) It may be that we had just reached that comfort level in our relationship where things would be OK even with this, or once again she may have changed on her own. Whatever the case I'm very appreciative of all that she gives me. Who knows what the future will bring but I'm happy where I am now!

-Bree

[StephanieJ]

My ex-wife used to flip back and forth on her acceptance, from accepting to downright hostile. However, that is just how she was about everything.

That was my experience exactly. My ex wife had Borderline Personality Disorder so she flip flopped on everything. One day she loved her job and the next day she hated it. One day she wanted a dog and the next day took him to the pound. One day she wanted to home school the kids and then within a few weeks she enrolled them back into public school. One day she was into composing music and teaching piano lessons and the next day she fired all her students and stopped playing. One day she was into making jewelery and the next day she got bored with it and gave away all her supplies. One day she supported my dressing and the next day she hated it and threw away all of my clothes. I think you get the idea... It took me 18 years to see the pattern, but once I did, it became obvious that cross dressing was not the main issue.

If your wife is emotionally stable then I wouldn't think that a little vacillation would be normal. If however she flips back and forth wildly then there may be a larger issue that you need to address.

[thewife/soon2bex]

That was my experience exactly. My ex wife had Borderline Personality Disorder so she flip flopped on everything. One day she loved her job and the next day she hated it. One day she wanted a dog and the next day took him to the pound. One day she wanted to home school the kids and then within a few weeks she enrolled them back into public school. One day she was into composing music and teaching piano lessons and the next day she fired all her students and stopped playing. One day she was into making jewelery and the next day she got bored with it and gave away all her supplies. One day she supported my dressing and the next day she hated it and threw away all of my clothes. I think you get the idea... It took me 18 years to see the pattern, but once I did, it became obvious that cross dressing was not the main issue.

If your wife is emotionally stable then I wouldn't think that a little vacillation would be normal. If however she flips back and forth wildly then there may be a larger issue that you need to address.

I believe that the circumstances differ and should never be "the wife has issues" unless there is medical proof. I did flip back and forth but not due to "emotional issues". I believe it was due to the way that everything was handled... or not handled.. by my H. When anyone is faced with something dramatically different from the "Norm" it will be a rollercoaster ride of emotions no matter how the person on the receiving end wants it to go. If this is approached with respect for the feelings of the person who is being expected (and yes.. I do mean "expected") to just accept what is being stated and not given any answers or support, I believe the feelings are justified. Saying "the wife has issues" is a way to justify that the person who has inflicted the feelings has done nothing wrong. That is exactly what my H did to me. This only brought on the emotional rollercoaster I rode for quite a while.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Elfin, My wife had going back and forth over the yers. but for the last 18yrs. it's been a DADT kinda thinggy.