Passing vs. Looking good?

[AlexisRaeMoon]

I've noticed a lot of talk around here about whether or not men can look good as women, and whether or not passing is possible, and it got me thinking: maybe worrying so much about "passing" is barking up the wrong tree. I know I used to think that that was the ulitmate goal. To walk around in public and just have people think you're female. As I spend more time dressing, I question not only whether that's a reasonable goal, but what's the point in even bothering? Without the use of hormones and/or surgery, it's nearly impossible to be totally unreadable. There's bound to be some giveaway.

BUT...who cares? Ultimately, it's just about looking good (however you choose to define it) or, put a different way, being happy with how you look. I posit that it is entirely possible for a genetic male to wear female attire and other accessories (makeup, jewelry, etc.) and be an "attractive" person. You may never avoid the dreaded, "hey, that's a dude!" But I believe it's entirely possible to be pretty.

Thoughts?

[AllieSF]

I have the same thoughts. I like to use the phrase "own it". That really defines for me being happy when dressed and out. It means accept who you are, accept that you are doing the best possible and hope to get better, do not be ashamed, be brave and confident, and most importantly, don't let other's opinions ruin your moment, because you "own" that moment, not them!

[KateSpade83]

I think passing is very important if you're going to go out shopping as a woman and try on women's clothes in the woman's fitting room. Or if you use a crowded women's toilet. I pass 95% of the time but what gets the best passable crossdressers read is that sometimes we all have distinct male facial features that still come out and get you read.

I tried on clothes in the women's fitting room many times and sometimes women would walk around braless and I'd see their tits... So they sure would panic and get pissed off if they found out I was a man.

There are a few members here who aren't passable enough and yet they go through a sex change. That would be a big disaster for me if I was them. I don't consider a sex change or messing around with hormones because ultimately no man made operation can make me a REAL woman with a real vagina and periods.

[Barbara Ella]

Face it, there are persons of each sex who do not fit the preconceived criteria of being "presentable or passing" for their sex. It is always best just to do what feels natural, and makes you happy with yourself, and then just own it, and sell it, and live with it. We all know what is going to happen, so be it.

Barbara

[Katrina Black]

I my mind passing is when you say "who cares , i look good, Im happy with the way i look".. which i believe you just said . Which i think makes you passable to the one that it matters most.

[Sallee]

I would agree and act yourself. I have often thought that. I just want to go out dressed as a female and act how I act, civilized I think, and be treated well regardless of gender appearance.

[NathalieX66]

I yam what I yam.....as Popeye would say.

[Jenniferathome]

...I tried on clothes in the women's fitting room many times and sometimes women would walk around braless and I'd see their tits...

and then you woke up from your nap? Never, in the history of changing rooms, has a woman exited her changing room braless and in view of others.

[AllieSF]

Jennifer, I would never say never. There are no absolutes in life except death.

[Badtranny]

I have the same thoughts. I like to use the phrase "own it".

You don't just use that phrase honey, you LIVE it!

I have the pleasure of hanging out with Ms SF quite often and she is so comfortable in her presentation that passing is a total afterthought. She really does own it and somehow she makes everybody feel comfortable. I can't even imagine somebody giving her a hard time. ...except me.

Passing? Blending? How about living?

[ReineD]

As I spend more time dressing, I question not only whether that's a reasonable goal, but what's the point in even bothering? Without the use of hormones and/or surgery, it's nearly impossible to be totally unreadable. There's bound to be some giveaway.

My SO also came to this conclusion, but not until she interacted on a regular basis with the people who work at the places she goes to, and they got to know her. Under these circumstances it's pretty hard to come off as a GG.

I'm just guessing here, but could it be there is such a strong desire to pass in the beginning, because a CDer feels that people will treat him (her) poorly or make fun of him if they realize he is a man in a dress? And that in time, as the CDer realizes that strangers either don't care or they keep their opinions to themselves, passing ceases to be important?

When my SO went from keeping to herself when she went out (rummaging quietly through racks of clothes, or just ordering a soda somewhere with a minimum of words), to actively getting to know others, knowing their names and engaging in general chit chat and light conversations, she did need to come to terms with being read and I think this was bittersweet for her. Maybe there was a bit of fantasy involved with being taken as a woman. I'll have to ask her. But, when she did come to terms with it, she realized that although people knew she wasn't a GG, they didn't treat her like a "man in a dress" either. They rather respected the fact that she is transgender.

We don't get into any education with the people we know about whether my SO is a crossdresser, transsexual, bigender, etc. Frankly, I don't think that people in the mainstream understand the differences between all the different layers of trans nor do I think they wonder whether my SO has had SRS or not. But they do see her as a person who is presenting as a woman and they treat her accordingly.

[Tracii G]

Part of the ability to pass is how you act and respond to others.Confidence in who you are weather or not you are a GG or not.
Dress the part and act the part and most will see you as a female.Sure some will read you and thats fine act dignified and proper.

[AllieSF]

They rather respected the fact that she is transgender.

We don't get into any education with the people we know about whether my SO is a crossdresser, transsexual, bigender, etc. Frankly, I don't think that people in the mainstream understand the differences between all the different layers of trans nor do I think they wonder whether my SO has had SRS or not. But they do see her as a person who is presenting as a woman and they treat her accordingly.

I agree with that first sentence and that happens to me and my partner in crime Rachael Sloane all the time. We do get the occasional, "Are you gay?". Instead of getting into a lot of detail we say that "We do this part time and are happy that way." It seems to clarify the situation without getting into all the details and labels. When appropriate, we do get into more details explaining who we are and why we do it (For the fun of it!). We definitely are treated as respectfully as if we were women.

[Michelle (Oz)]

Adrianna and Reine - both spot on for me too.

Blending does remain important to me particularly for those change room and toilet situations. However, interaction when out is also very important to me and I have built up a strong network of, well, acquaintances. Such engagement prevents the potential loneliness of a CDer. My male voice has me read immediately if I wasn't read before. Its empowering though and builds my confidence with people as well as their general acceptance.

You make an interesting point Reine which hadn't struck me to now. I had thought that I was seen as a man in a dress - kinda frowned upon. I wonder whether many of those that I come into contact with look beyond the clothes and are really more accepting of me. Presentation remains important though, otherwise the image would be jarring.

[Pythos]

I almost never dress to "pass". I dress to look effing exotic, and and good. I want WOMEN to see me and say "wow, you look HOT" or "wow you are gorgeous" or my personal fave "I want to peel you out of that catsuit and do naughty things to you" (I have gotten such lines....unfortunately the ones delivering said lines were hooked up in one way or another, or I know too much about to want to get romatically involved.)
I just like to put together a look that is just wild enough, and yea it is fun to fool for the first few seconds. :P

[ReineD]

Presentation remains important though, otherwise the image would be jarring.

Presentation is important mostly for the people that you have not interacted with, namely the people who pass you by on the street or the women in the restrooms. Strangers are more apt to pass judgment when they see someone from an emotional distance (no human interaction), and in these circumstances it's important to not attract undue attention, for example looking like the stereotypical crossdresser. But, something magical happens when there is human interaction that is difficult to put into words. People's defenses melt, the CDer's personality shines through more than what she or he is wearing, and often, any preexisting, slight biases melt away. The person talking to you realizes that you are a nice person and you are not a threat to them. It is at this point that "passing" is not all that important.

[Elsa Larson]

Every time I see a woman who has broad shoulders, thick waist, straight hips, strong jaw-line, adams apple, baritone voice or any other possibly male component, I wonder to myself if she MTF.

MOST of those women turn out to be normal 46,XX natal females.

But it is because of those women that some trans-women can "pass". I figure I'm "passing" if the answer to "Is She or Isn't She" is MAYBE.

And even when I'm immediately recognized as a man in a dress, I've been treated well at most of the places I go.

[noeleena]

Hi.

Passing or looking good,

The comment ill get is you are looking nice or thats smart, most times from friends with in our groups, or strangers who see me dressed in my period wear or garb, while on flights over sea's .

Passing ,

As a woman ill never pass , that sounds like im not a woman. so = i am a female / woman who does not have the feminine look no female facial features so not possibale no matter how i dress or look.

yes i know of many men who will look pass & appear more of a woman than i & ill be embarissed around them.& have done many times, & yes they can change thier clothes & be come or go back to what they are, many are very good at being able to to that, a masquerade or makebelive or similar . i dont have that privalige,

Even being on hormones for life & surgerys will never change what i dont have, or was not born with as a female,

My Peer's have judged me & passed me as a female / woman. based on my being a female who's different. so for some of us we have other qualitys that surpass's our looks & passability.

...noeleena...

[Rachelakld]

When in the ladies room, I like to think I can blend.
On the otherhand, my bod shape is very wrong for a girl and I love tight clothes or shoe string tops that show of my arms, shoulders and back, so I know I don't blend.
I still politely great the lady who is hogging the mirror in the ladies room, preventing me from checking my makeup

[Kate Simmons]

Absolutely nothing wrong with a guy wanting to look (and feel) pretty. What we get out of it is mostly up to us, despite what others may think or say. Go for it I say.

[Rogina B]

Being questionable as to your real gender from a quick glance is good enough for me.Once scrutinized,[while waiting in a checkout line,etc]the details of your presentation take over.If your appearance shows that you care,then they accept that you are "there to stay".In this day and age,no one knows for sure what is in your panties! Most people accept people for who they are and move on with their thoughts.

[Launa]

I know I will never pass even from a satelite photo so I can't worry about being read too much.

I've just got to look the very, very best I can and deal with any crap that comes along with being this way.

[MsRenee]

As long as I look good and can enjoy the outside I will continue to go out. Passing that Im not worried about. Trust me its always nice to get a compliment, but when I go out Im not looking for them Im just out relaxing and ejoying life these days. Lifes bbeen a work and know when time allows it ( which is usually twice a week)I get to fully dress and to get my tush outside.
Hugs
Renee

[Gretchen_To_Be]

I know I will never pass even from a satelite photo so I can't worry about being read too much.

I've just got to look the very, very best I can and deal with any crap that comes along with being this way.

That was really funny (the satellite photo part)

[genevie]

I will never pass. Too many masculine characteristics. If I think too much, it really depresses me. I still would love to try a transformation service just once to see how close or really how bad it would be. But no way am I ever going to try and go out in public. I have to be content with inside feminine stuff. Oh, I can look down at my feet and see something a little pretty. But really they are guy's feet with prettier nails. So it is probably going to always be me walking around with a little secret inside and feeling somewhat better for expressing it just a bit.