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Thread: Does crossdressing make you less of a man ?

  1. #101
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    I think that the point, most obviously, is to express some innate femininity. So while one is dressed, he is giving life and voice to his feminine side. But here is the question: What does that do in terms of his overall manhood? Is he necessarily "less of a man" overall because of those periods of indulging a feminine side?

    I think we should flip the question. Does dressing in fatigues and combat boots for work make a woman necessarily less than a woman? Does playing sports with the boys make a girl necessarily less of a girl? Does wearing flannel shirts and jeans to work as a mechanic make a woman necessarily less of a woman? What if the rest of her life is defined by her happy conformity to her traditional "gender role?" Wife, mother. Wearer of dresses and skirts. Nurturer, caregiver.

    Part of our frustration, it would seem, is that the rules do not apply equally to both sides. Women are free to express aspects of masculinity in areas of their life, and many are actually celebrated for it. Ahhh...but this is not true of men. If we express femininity of any kind, our manhood and sexuality and worth are called into question. We lose respect. We gain ridicule and fear and shame. It would seem as if it is the ultimate expression of sexism, actually. When women do traditionally masculine things, they are "stepping up" in life and are to be commended for "rising above their station." But men are mocked because they are voluntarily relinquishing power and elevated status and thus are "weakening" themselves purposely.

    But here is how I (continue to) look at it even after 4 years of not dressing. A man could be less of a man depending on how he executes the expression of femininity and how he uses it in his life. But he CAN be MORE of a man for learning to treat his wife in an understanding way, as Christian husbands are called to do, for example. I learned all sorts of lessons about what I should be doing as a REAL man to protect, provide for, serve, and sacrifice for my wife. I gained some small additional appreciation for things she goes through as a woman that I never gave any thought to until I indulged my feminine side. I learned about vulnerability and the need for security. I learned about notions of body image/appearance and how powerful a force it is in a woman's life. I learned why things sometimes take so long. I gained an appreciation for HER daily work and sacrifices which far exceeded my own. I learned how to really listen and not try to "fix" everything. I think; I hope that those lessons have made me a better man -- MORE of a man, if you will. Even if I still have those same old feminine feelings -- even if I don't act on them.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephanie Scott View Post
    Part of our frustration, it would seem, is that the rules do not apply equally to both sides. Women are free to express aspects of masculinity in areas of their life, and many are actually celebrated for it. Ahhh...but this is not true of men. If we express femininity of any kind, our manhood and sexuality and worth are called into question. We lose respect. We gain ridicule and fear and shame. It would seem as if it is the ultimate expression of sexism, actually.
    When women first started wearing pants and other men's clothing, they experienced the ridicule and shame but they had the balls to get out there and do it! Women don't have frail egos like men. It is extremely important to understand that women wear men's items/clothing as women. They are not attempting to deceive anyone that they are men. The problem with most crossdressers is that most of them stay in the closet. Additionally, most crossdressers attempt to deceive that they are really women. The only way for men to make progress like women previously did is to wear women's clothing, nail polish, makeup, etc as a man. It is also important to proudly own what you are wearing and not attempt to make excuses like splitting nails for wearing nail polish. In the case of nail polish, just tell people that you like having red nails, or wearing women's jeans, shoes, etc because they are pretty or they feel good. That is what is meant my "owning it", and it is exactly what women did when they started wearing pants and other masculine items. Do men have the courage to do this? Unfortunately, I don't think so as most crossdressers would rather cower in the closet or make excuses when they are busted. Therefore it is unrealistic to think that men will ever obtain the same gender freedom as women because they are not willing to take the risk. No risk, no gain - it's really that simple.
    You will become stronger in the ways of the Pink Fog. May the Pink Fog guide you and be with you now and forever.

  3. #103
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    My SO is a CDer....I knew him before when we were in high school...and I always thought he was a wonderful person STILL do.That being said I can honestly say that I am glad that he came out of the CDing closet...He is more comfortable with himself/herself since.....he has always been a shy , quiet person. I do not see him as less of a man for Cding. I see him as being STRONGER. I am so glad he is coming to terms with who he is ...all the parts that make him who he really is. It just is another facet to who he is . And I love him for it.

    One thing I can say tho is that since he has come out of the CDing closet ....It has made me able to come to terms with who I truly am also. He makes me a better person. I have a very masculine side to me that for many years My EXH used to ridicule me for it by complaining that I was too much like a guy. I am a tomboy that can be very much a lady. I have a tool box , I fix things around the house , maintenance on my car, make things, refinish furniture ....lol When my SO is infemme it allows me to express the masculine side of me w/o repercussions and also allows the very feminine side of me to come out too. Seeing him dealing with his CDing side has given me the strength to deal with my past demons and to heal myself and let go of my abusive past (dad and EXH were both abusive) By him being strong and very sensitive (CDING side ) It gave me the courage to be able to let go of having to be strong all the time and allow myself to fall apart and cry when it all seems too much. By seeing him at his most vulnerable ...made it OK for me to allow myself to be vulnerable too.
    So his Cding has not only made him better and more of a man it made me a better more complete woman with a strong masculine side.
    I wouldn't have him any other way...!!!!
    So I hope that gives you an answer from the GGs point of view.
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  4. #104
    Junior Member Nikki Rich's Avatar
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    Thank you for your response my SO also knows about my crossdressing and is ok with it, which makes it a lot easier to be who I am with her. She had been great I'm not gonna lie and say its been easy ive made some mistakes along the the way and still make some now but I feel like its getting better, just taking day by day.
    Hugs , Nikki Rich

  5. #105
    Member melissakozak's Avatar
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    My answer to this question is...how do you exactly define what a woman or a man is? I have never felt like a straight man, don't know what they feel like and never have....I honestly believe most straight men worry constantly about being the perception of not being manly...again, I don't know what this means....other than I feel a lot of men are fairly insecure about their masculinity in some situations...thus, they won't go to the salon, get their hair actually "done" instead of just cut, etc. In male mode, I do all of these things...the typical girly types of things, and I am simply being 'me.' I couldn't care less what others think as I sit back, read Redbook and get my nails done.....

  6. #106
    Cat's Eye Siren ArleneRaquel's Avatar
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    I don't think that dressing as a female makes me less of a man, but my homophobic next door neighbor is sure that by living, almost all of the time enfemme, will condemn me to h*ll. To me my dressing completes my humanness.
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  7. #107
    Aspiring Member Sabrina133's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shibumi View Post
    My belief is that it makes me a better, more whole person. For years I was the rough, gruff type of macho man that suppressed these thoughts and feelings. 25 years in the Army. I was a Paratrooper, a Drill Sergeant. On the civilian side a respected business executive. There is only one person on Earth that knows about this, my wife. Married 12 years and we have 3 beautiful children together. I am an excellent, loving husband, father, and provider. I respect, no revere women greatly, especially my wife. I am far more a man--even though I thoroughly enjoy shaving my legs, wearing sheer hose with stiletto pumps, dresses, skirts, etc.--than many insecure macho types that treat women like excrement and think that makes them more manly.
    Amen Shibumi. I dont think how i dress, act or look should define me as a Man. i've known many "Manly" men who were downright despiclable - disrespectful, deceitful, dishonest and just downright mean. If thats what it means to be a man then i dont want any part of it.

  8. #108
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    What exactly is meant by "less of" a man, anyway? I still have the same hardware, so to speak, and I still enjoy the same manly activities whether I am dressed or not... I just also happen to enjoy being girly and doing girly things to an equal, but separate, degree. Would playing a wizard in a roleplaying game make you "less of" a business executive (or whatever) in real life?

    A question with the same logic might be: Does being a man make you less feminine?
    "Art is not what you see, but what you make others see." - Edgar Degas

  9. #109
    Aspiring Member EllenJo's Avatar
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    I am just me in both modes. The fact that I have a strong feminine side enhances who I am as much as my masculine side. When the wife finally accepted my crossdressing, she said it was because she realized that many of the traits she loved about me were more feminine. I take care of her, provide for her and try to make everyday a good day for her and will as long as I have her. My ability to give up many of my manly pursuits and be happy as a housekeeper and caregiver are what she came to understand was the Ellen Jo in me and she has grown to like Ellen Jo.
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  10. #110
    Member Joanne108's Avatar
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    No! I'm still a man, I just have a talent for disguising myself as a woman! I do love making my disguise as real as possible! However I'm still attracted to women! Whether I'm dressed or not I'm still me, and I'm a man!

  11. #111
    Silver Member DebbieL's Avatar
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    No, lying about who I am, what I am, how I feel, those make me less of a man. Expressing anger easily and being afraid to giggle, show tenderness, or say a kind word to a man or woman because I'm afraid of what they will think of me - that's when I am less of a man. In other words, when I am so worried about trying to "pass" as a man - I give up a very important part of myself.

    The question itself is insulting, not just to transsexuals and transgenders, but also to women! It suggests that expressing feminine aspects makes one less of a person than a man who acts consistent with society's current definition of masculinity and man-hood.

    I find that those who DO attempt to conform to the traditional "Masculine" roles are the ones who deserve less respect. Growing up, the boys who were violent, selfish, and angry were respected, even feared, while those who were gentle and kind were mocked and persecuted. In Jr High and High School, the boys who were sexually aggressive to the point of being rude, lewd, crude, and abusive in their descriptions of women, their interactions with women, and their interactions around women, were viewed as "Masculine" and were respected, while those who spoke with respect, kindness, and friendship around women and about women were called "faggots", "fairiys", or "queers", regardless of their actual sexual attraction. Often, they would reinforce this behavior as "inferior" by engaging in physical abuse toward the men who were respectful and kind regarding women. Sadly, women often chose these "Alpha" males, even though they were abusive, because they had a good "line", or just intimidated the competition. Then these women were shocked when the man became abusive, even violent, some even verging on rape.

    Around the world, the "Alpha" males were often the worst as sexual partners, spouses, and parents. The were often violent and abusive toward their wives and children, especially if their wife wasn't ready willing and able to give them whatever they wanted. They often drank too much, did not work reliably, or even turned to crime. Many were soldiers at some point in their lives, escalating the violent behaviors to a deadly level. These men were literally conditioned to kill anyone on command, men, women, children, even infants, when ordered to do so, without hesitation. In a military combat situation this was often necessary, since insurgents were often women who would strap claymore mines between them and their babies, assuring that anyone who tried to rescue the baby after the mother was killed would be killed, along with anyone within 50 feet. However, when these men came home, there had been no conditioning or training to prepare them for living in a peaceful society, family, and community. The skills that won them respect in the battlefield had little value in domestic life, in a civilized peaceful workplace. Many men who came back from battle eventually committed suicide, unable to cope with life in which anger, rage, and violence were liabilities, and kindness, compassion, and gentleness were the required skills for a father, professional, and community member.

    In effect, these poor fellows had been conditioned by the schools, peers, parents, and military to do everything they could to "kill" everything "feminine" about themselves, effectively killing off 1/2 of the skills and personality traits that are REQUIRED of human beings in modern society. They became less of a man than a well rounded man would be.
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  12. #112
    Luv doing girl stuff CherylFlint's Avatar
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    It takes a lot of guts to go out in public dressed.
    The more you do it the better you get and the easier it is.

  13. #113
    playing dress up JC's Avatar
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    make me less of a man? this depends on the person making the evaluation.

    To me - no.

    To the majority of society - yes it does make us less of a man.

    Remember that there is no set definiton in our world.
    JC

    the guy that plays dress up and that has the best wife in the world!

  14. #114
    Junior Member Nikki Rich's Avatar
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    Probably one of the shortest answers to the question but in my opinion one of the best
    Hugs , Nikki Rich

  15. #115
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    Just read the thread and so agree with Eryn...when I dress I am more of a woman and when not, I'm just a man ... being female is a bit more of a challenge as I have less practice and there are more social taboos (many more than a female being male). What I find most interesting is that my mind and body can live in these two different dimensions, willingly and with zest...when dressed I truly am female (at least within my brain) and if others cannot see that I am not at fault....
    The Wise Ol' Momma Owl....Darla Jean

  16. #116
    Senior Member MissTee's Avatar
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    Can't answer as I have yet to figure out what "less of a man" looks like. Who defines that?

  17. #117
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    More of a man. Case closed

  18. #118
    Member Christine.Lolita's Avatar
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    Not sure if it make me more or less of a man. It does make me more of a person.

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