Don't Be One

[Shananigans]

I feel as though the issue of whether women CD or not has been hammered out to death on this forum. (This is concerning GGs who buy things like jeans...not FTMs). So, needless to say, we're all pretty split on this issue. (Well, "split" if you discredit how the GGs feel on the issue...where it seems like all of us feel like we aren't crossdressing). So, since we are all "split," I propose a different discussion.

I have sympathy for men that feel like the men's department is a bit creatively challenged. I more or less agree that it sucks, but I never quite understood why the solution for this problem was to lament/finger point at GGs. After all, most of us aren't designing your clothes...or, even shopping in your department. I never quite understood the purpose of how this particular method of retribution would accomplish anything for the men in question. But, I do understand basic economics...and, so I wanted to propose a different method to those who just feel as though they are lacking in wardrobe variety...

The first argument is that women CD all of the time and it's downright sexist for men not to be allowed to CD. In my experience in the humble state of Alabama, our culture is becoming politically correct to almost a state of fear in offending anyone...it seems as though there are quite a number of court cases being fought and won on the basis that people should be allowed to be who they want to be. Most people I know wouldn't dare say a word to someone's face that would marginalized them...but, everyone seems to despise everyone once enough people are out of ear shot. But, this is how changes in culture have been made. Women wanted to be seen as equal and not as property/sex objects, so we changed our garb to be taken seriously. It was quite a scandal at the time, and many women had very unfair things said about them...but, they kept on...and, eventually won the right to not have to wear a skirt or hide their ankles without hearing a chorus of clicking tongues in the background. It happened so long ago that nearly all women in modern nations do not even question slacks. It's almost quite confusing when you get an angry male in a skirt (and, sometimes prosthetics) yelling at you that you TOO are crossdressing if you wear pants. I often find myself asking, "We'll, what do you want us to do about it?" And, most women have other wars to fight, so we leave it up for you all to figure out...until it comes up again, I suppose.

It seems quite obvious, but hiding behind a computer and ranting to other crossdressers isn't going to cause much of a cultural change. Everyone else has historically put the problem in the face of the community. The transsexual community is doing a phenomenal job at spreading the message of what it means to feel transgendered...but, it seems like most CDs have stayed firmly in the closet.

What is worse is that there is the argument to change male fashion, but most here buy female-targeted clothing items quietly and only make the passing snide remarks to GGs (who again usually have very little to do with your fashion industry).

So, if I were a clothing designer (or clothing store), I would see business is booming for female fashion. Should I worry much about the MTF TS population?...Heck no, they're identified female anyway...Why fix what's not broken? Maybe I'm aware that there are men that would want more female oriented designs in the male department... Turns out the fashion industry tried to make a splash/turn some heads with female-designed clothing that was marketed to men, but it failed epically. The only conclusion to be made goes back to economic of supply and demand...it's apparently not that big of deal to most men. Or, so it seems...

It has been said that most men will try "crossdressing" at some point in their life (where my psychology textbook came up with this survey, I have no idea). So, one would think there would be quite the market for female-designed clothes in the men's department. But, if no one is going out there and demanding it, how will there be change?

It's a hard one...and, at the end of the day, fussing at rather confused GGs is much easier. However, I would like to ask how I (and other GGs) are holding you back in your fashion adventures? On a scale of 1 to 10, how effective is it to just point a finger (or, in most cases, an anonymous Internet post) at GGs while insisting that we are also crossdressers? From my observations, a negative opinion is actually given to the CDing community, because most people don't take kindly to accusations that they feel are unfounded.

So, for those in knots at the lack of femininity in men's clothing, I wold like to ask what you personally plan on doing to rectify this situation. I can only hope that the plan does not begin and end with anonymous posts about how marginalized you are, or how women are equally guilty.

And, furthermore, how effective is such argument in this society? The real issue is that something culturally changed in how women dress many, many, many years ago...it was quite the scandal back in the day...but, does a valid social opinion really exist if most people have moved past it? Was it incorrect to have moved past it, or is it incorrect to have an archaic view on society's operations? I was also wondering how much of an impact passive movements have had in the past...can anyone recall a movement that changed history, but only required one group passively bemoaning at another? Is it the job of the group being accused (in this case GGs) to fight your own battles? I just ask because most political stances that I support generally just ask me to join their cause...they usually explain their stance to me in a way that doesn't pass off their problems on someone else.

I think a novel challenge for people who feel this way to become seen. If you aren't the type for active change, perhaps you can just show public support for those who do want the change. (This does require more than anonymous Internet posts of encouragement). And, though I could care less what is in the men's department, I show you my support...I make it a point to bring up TG topics to my social groups. So, tell me (and everyone else who wants you to wear what you want to wear) what we can do to help this change for you. And, I do hope your solution doesn't involve GGs to come out of the closet as CDs. (I almost feel that to do something like that is quite insulting for many who feel their CDing is a unique part if their personality).

So, that's it. I know I would be hoping in vain for there to be an extinction of posts looking for validation from other CDs that GGs are all CDs in disguise. But, I do hope that the ball gets rolling on constructive ideas that might actually lead to things that we could do to help make the community of males that desire feminine fashion to readily available/marketed to males more visible. If parts of the above post seem tongue-in-cheek, it's because they are...but, I do sincerely want you to get what you want...but, I also believe (and, I think most of you know it deep down) that you're going about things entirely the wrong way.

There is a running joke in my family where we tell each other not to "be one" when we are traveling...essentially, when we catch ourselves acting like a typical, idiot tourist, we give the accused a firm (but playful) expression and we say, "I just want you to know...you're being one." But, oddly enough, this phrase seemed to filter over into other parts of our life when we started acting like kind of an asshole.

And, with that I also pose the challenge that you don't be one...don't be That CD...*insert visual of angry CD in a skirt pointing at a confused GG in jeans and telling her that you are one and the same* Did it really move you toward what you want? Or, were you just guilty of being one?

I guess I'll end on that note.

[AllieSF]

I agree 100% with you. I really only see certain types of MtF CD's complaining, actually to me it is whining, and referencing the female crossdresser who isn't cross dressing. One type likes to dwell on their definition or a hard definition of the word crossdressing. They will argue till blue in their face that women are crossdressing when wearing traditional men's clothes and when on a more borderline moment when that sexy women gets out of bed at her boy friend's house and puts on one of his shirts to parade around his house as he makes that romantic after morning sex breakfast for her. I see those mostly in advertisements! Let them argue their semantics and still miss the big picture.

The other group, l the really believe are the main whining types, are just looking for justifications to mask their own lack of confidence and courage to take those first steps out of the house into the real world and just be themselves and live with what happens, which in 99% of the time maybe at worst stares, giggles and that occasional cat call or derogatory remark. I see a lot of these as being newbies to this site and maybe even to the world of CDing. Hopefully, they will learn that if they take the matter into their own hands that they can actually make a difference and get out there and enjoy themselves. I appreciate that it is not easy to go against the mainstream beliefs and practices, but it actually is not that difficult to swim against the current when crossdressing. By not being themselves I think that they lose a lot of fun and enriching opportunities, and they let themselves fall into that age old trap of blaming others for their own shortcomings, and in this case it is a lack of courage and ability to admit their own fears of looking so different from all the other males in male clothing out their.

[kimdl93]

The suggestion that women wearing slacks, pants, or jeans are CDing is a silly rationalization....at best a false equivalency. Like it or not, many...dare I suggest most CDrs wear women's clothes because its women's clothing, not for the texture, fit or style. If one hasn't attained a certain level of self acceptance, it's more comfortable emotionally to insist that it's a fashion preference rather than a gender identification.

[PaulaQ]

I think this is a silly argument and POV. For whatever reason, jeans and a shirt aren't particularly tied to a gender. A woman in a male business suit would still look sorta odd. She'd need to be pretty terrific looking to pull the look off anyway, which is why not many women buy them.

Women have a lot more freedom to express themselves in clothing. Life isn't fair, people need to get past the expectation that it ever will be. There are puh-lenty of situations where males have an advantage socially. This one works against us, thems the breaks.

BTW the bar on this has moved a lot, it is not unusual to see guys wear stuff now that would'be been shocking when I was young. Pierced ears are but one small example.

[susan54]

Full marks to Shenanigans for doing her bit to try and get everyone off the subject of criticising women for wearing trousers (or whatever). When we want to wear what we want, it is bonkers to have a go at others for wearing what they want.

If you want society to change, people have to change it. If you are not willing to be part of the change, don't blame other people. I go out dressed as a woman a lot, and I go out as a man in a skirt a lot. I can only speak for the UK, but it is NOT a big deal. Apart from the occasional double-take, there is NO reaction. Astonishing but true. If anything, people in shops and restaurants and hotels are even nicer to you. If you feel there is a problem, be part of the solution.

I admit that I am not 'out' to most of my friends and colleagues, but that is my choice too. I have a huge commitment to my work, and my effectiveness depends on my professional credibility. I want to be judged by my work instead of what I wear, so my appearances are selective. That does not invalidate my point - I lead by example a lot of the time, and I do not feel any need to blame anything on women. For women to be able to wear trousers it took a few brave women to start doing so, at a time when society was nothing like as tolerant as it is now. My mother was one of those women.

It would be good if the retail sector did its bit to try and promote men wearing what they want. Imagine the upsurge in sales if more men felt comfortable buying skirts and dresses.

But the bottom line is - if you want change, be part of it.

[tiffanyjo89]

Something I will add...most women around where I live actually wear pants all the time.

If I'm out and see a woman in a skirt or a dress I tend to take notice a bit more. I guess it's because in an area (about halfway between Atlanta and the Alabama state line) having women in pants all the time makes a woman in a skirt instinctively stand out.

Also, the fashion industry may be all for men wearing women's clothes, but if men don't want to buy them, the stores aren't going to stock them.

[darla_g]

Its always a weak argument to use the point that they can do it without comment why can't we? We have no spokesman and certainly no positive role models out in the public eye.

[JackieInPA]

I think a big problem here is the fact that women can NOW wear pants/shorts/skirts whatever they want, but many people who make this argument fail to realize that women had to FIGHT for the ability to do so without social stigma, like we are doing now. Their battle just came earlier in history. Most societies have had 60or 70 years to come to terms with women not being forced to wear nothing but skirts/dresses. People now see the fruits of their labor but have forgotten that labor. Just in the last century have women fought their way up the societal ladder from being thought of as nothing more than breeders and servants to men, and actually still have some ways to go.

Part of what we need to do is not to tear women down...but to build them up. We need to truly as a society embrace the concept that men and women are equals. Until this happens men doing anything 'womanly' will be looked at as demeaning themselves, and worthy of ridicule.

[Sarasometimes]

I think a big problem here is the fact that women can NOW wear pants/shorts/skirts whatever they want, but many people who make this argument fail to realize that women had to FIGHT for the ability to do so without social stigma, like we are doing now. Their battle just came earlier in history. Most societies have had 60or 70 years to come to terms with women not being forced to wear nothing but skirts/dresses. People now see the fruits of their labor but have forgotten that labor. Just in the last century have women fought their way up the societal ladder from being thought of as nothing more than breeders and servants to men, and actually still have some ways to go.

Part of what we need to do is not to tear women down...but to build them up. We need to truly as a society embrace the concept that men and women are equals. Until this happens men doing anything 'womanly' will be looked at as demeaning themselves, and worthy of ridicule.

That last line speaks volumes!! Well put!
Before you take aim at me let me explain where I'm at. I'm not in a position to lead this battle. I go out dressed and get my wig atyled. I shop enmale and enfemme for clothes but I'm not looking to make the news, quite the contrary. The reasons are mine and no one here knows them well enough to judge them.
I agree that this is the ultimate underlying problem. Women had a huge struggle to have society accept them wearing pants but I think the difference was that society at the time could appreciate the motivation. I think most of society hasn't or can't see the motivation yet so that first needs to change. Not an easy thing when society is currently focused on encouraging/accepting females in more amd more traditionally male roles. It is kind of tough to fight for and gain acceptance of wearing pantyhose, when both those who can and those who can't generally don't want to.
To the OP, I appreciate you and your mate putting yourselves out there to the degree you feel comfortable and that is the best any of us can do, to help make the change we generally want. Some can scream from the mountain top, others can meerly whisper, and some need to stay quiet. The pace of change may be agonizingly slow but as another post mentioned the younger generation now routinely have 2 ears pierced, get eyebrow waxing, chest wax and wear skinny jeans. I doubt I'll be around when we hit paydirt but it is improving, thanks to all who help!

[tiffanyjo89]

You are correct on this...women fought to have ways changed so they could wear shorter skirts and dresses and pants. Women did movements to get culture changed.

Now, there are women who actually crossdress, but most aren't noticed. There are some women who, at least around the house, will wear a men's dept stocked pair of sweats or boxers, and how many girls do you see in band shirts? Most of them are "unisex" (read, guy's t-shirt sold as unisex, cause I don't think many women's t-shirts would work as unisex due to the cut). Now, a lot of these women don't cause waves cause, A) band shirts ARE sold as unisex at concerts and websites and record stores and such and, B) they might wear a pair of boxers or mens sweats but they aren't trying to be a guy.

Now, part of the reason why I think crossdressing (at least in males) is typically seen as weird is that we still are kinda in a male driven society, and a fair amount of society can't see why a guy would want to have anything to do with anything girly. Also, there is a big difference in people's eyes of a guy who puts on a skirt and a guy who tries to look like a woman, even to adding fake breasts and such. Even though things like homosexuality and transsexualism are being viewed more and more as "normal" it still shakes many a old fashioned, conservative mind that a guy, who "has been given a higher status in society" would want to be a girl, even for a short amount of time.

[Jamie001]

Its always a weak argument to use the point that they can do it without comment why can't we? We have no spokesman and certainly no positive role models out in the public eye.

The point is that you and I need to be the positive role models for other folks.

Female designed clothing for men are still " men's" clothing.... Kryptonite to cross dressers LOL

The problem here is that female designed clothing for men will be masculinized by the designer to the point that it will not be feminine anymore. Take for example women's high-heels. I am sure that if high-heels were offered for men, instead of simply offering larger sized, they would be ruggedized and masculinized making them look bulky and clunky. If the designers would just realize that all they need to do is make women's clothing and shoes in larger sizes rather than musculinizing these items.

[ReluctantDebutant]

There have always been more fashionable men's clothes that come in a full spectrum of colors and fabrics. These styles have also looked more on the androgonious or feminine side. but the problem I see for these fashions to become more maistream are many.

1. Fashionable men's clothes like fashionable women's clothes seem to be desigen for and produced in sizes for people who are built and look like fashion models.

2. Alot of men don't care to be on the cutting edge of fashion. Most men I know don't care to spend alot on new clothes. They'll save and get a new truck or car every few years but purchash on really nice expensive jacket or shoes and wear it till it falls apart.

3. Despite the arguement for more clothing chioces. For CDer's it is about the clothing being women's clothes. Men's clothes no matter how "feminized" will not be that appealing.

Stores will only put on the shelves what the majority of men will buy. CDer's and Fashionalbe males are a niche market nothing wrong with being a niche.

[Shananigans]

Allie, I'm glad you brought up missed opportunities. My SO was extremely self conscious and closeted when we first met...it took a lot of guts for him to go out fully dressed. He's now "completely out." I use the " " because it's not like we really just walk around randomly announcing, "Haaaaaave you met Ryan? By the way, he's a CD." But, if something related comes up, we take the opportunity to inform people that's he's a CD. For example, one of my friends was joking with me that Ryan would have to start wearing my clothes if I didn't get rid of my old clothes/make space in my closet. I laughed and said, "Too late!" My friend kind of laughed/was confused...so, I said, "Oh, I thought you knew that Ryan is a CD" At this point, my friend just didn't believe me (I have a habit of exploiting gullible people)...so, I called Ryan over and said, "I was just telling Andrew that you were a CD." (My SO is used to my blunt behavior after 4 years). And, so he said, "Yep, it's true...I thought you saw me at the Halloween party." Andrew countered he thought it was just for Halloween....and, so I said, "Really? He did it that well and you thought it was just for Halloween? Or, that he goes as some random famous chick Every Halloween?" (I know...he may be a CD, but he just can't think out of the box...famous chick every year lol jk) So, our friend was a little interested...asked questions. Ryan gave the good ol' "I guess I just like to wear women's clothes." (Of course, that's really not his whole story...but, it is for some people...so they say). Either way, it was put out there and a lot of people in our lives now know someone personally who is influenced by these issues.

Now, I will admit that my SO and I have been paranoid at times going out..,worried about violence. Well, really, I'm the worried one...but, my SO was able to actually consider that people might be violent over such things...I think being raised male gives a bit of an "it wouldn't happen to me" mindset at times. It seems like me and my friends are perpetually on "rape alert"...as if every male on the street is just one flip out away from raping and pillaging. (It's actually really sad that we're taught this, but I actually have been pretty thankful of it in the past). But, the point is that we were also scared...we still are...but, we put ourselves out there. And, with doing that, we have had nothing but positive experiences...any negative experience that we have had remotely related to CDing has been from within ourselves...our community has been nothing but supportive. And, if we can get this in the middle of Alabama, I think it can be accomplished almost anywhere.

[kimdl93]

Honestly, if you guys canto out in Bama, there is hope almost everywhere. I've been out here in Houston many times, but we are quite cosmopolitan by TX standards. But I've also been out in a north Texas city known for doing bad things to gay and trans people. Nothing bad so far.

And thanks for the Steinbeck quote! I haven't read East of Eden in decades! Guess I need to revisit it!

[Lorileah]

Maybe if all the crossdressing women who are jealous of how a man looks in a dress would stand up and....OK I can't even say that without laughing.

Shannan, there was a time, long long ago where fashions was very androgynous. Where men and women both wore tight slacks (with no back pockets that made my rear look really...I digress), bright shirts in florals and soft fabrics and shoes with stacked 2" heels. That world crumbled when one day men said "Hey! you look like a girl in that flammable rayon shirt!" and being hurt deeply and afraid that they would no longer be able to father children, the men went back to their bland every day existence. It was the exact thing you are talking about. Money talks. Men quit buying those clothes for fear of having their sexual preference challenged and started buying pants three times too big so that when they were 40 they could state "I wear the same waist size I did in high school".

But some went without fear. Some continued in silence and "underdressing" to wear the sot silky fabrics. Many more though chose to hide and rant about about how life was so unfair. They had the chance. It took women almost 50 years to get clothing that was functional for the day to day life. They didn't have the internet to use to rant towards the world. They just did it. Men tried for 5-10 years then said "this is hard".

[sometimes_miss]

Now, I will admit that my SO and I have been paranoid at times going out..,worried about violence. Well, really, I'm the worried one...but, my SO was able to actually consider that people might be violent over such things...I think being raised male gives a bit of an "it wouldn't happen to me" mindset at times. It seems like me and my friends are perpetually on "rape alert"...as if every male on the street is just one flip out away from raping and pillaging. (It's actually really sad that we're taught this, but I actually have been pretty thankful of it in the past). But, the point is that we were also scared...we still are...but, we put ourselves out there. And, with doing that, we have had nothing but positive experiences...any negative experience that we have had remotely related to CDing has been from within ourselves...our community has been nothing but supportive. And, if we can get this in the middle of Alabama, I think it can be accomplished almost anywhere.

This is one very good point, one that virtually all men never even consider. You're not free to go out whenever and wherever you want without being constantly on the lookout for the creepy guy who just might be one step away from attacking you. And it's a big deal, really; it's a major difference in how men and women have to live. I mean, even here in the U.S., or other western so called civilized countries it goes on, and there are so many guys out there that really believe that any attractive woman is fair game 'because she was asking for it' by dressing so attractively. Yet, no guy would ever say that a man was just asking to be mugged because he was wearing an expensive suit.

[Wildaboutheels]

The NIMBY attitude is very firmly entrenched here. Many people want the "freedom" to go out "dressed" and not be "bothered by Society" but claim they will wait till the "coast is clear" maybe someday in the future.

The FACT is that the coast is clear right now for anyone with the least little bit of chutzpah.

"We have met the enemy and they is us".

[Chickhe]

I think most of the comments made are 'justifications' for CDing. They are probably not intended to discredit woman or anyone else. Its like saying if Billy is allowed to throw a ball, I should be allowed to also and doing that doesn't take anything away from Billy. In fact, Billy will then have a friend to play with. As for CDers hiding...well, I think its all about fear and the reactions of others. Most CDers I think are happy with their lives and fear that CDing or the knowledge that they CD will change everything. Its a valid concern based on some of the really bad situations we hear about in the news. In a perfect world, where CDing is considered normal, things would be a lot different. If you think back a few years, anyone with a tattoo was considered an outcast, but now almost anyone gets one and you almost don't notice anymore. It takes time, but there are more and more CDers becoming visible, for example, Jessica Who or KimberlyTx who are out there talking to people and enjoying it. I do halloweens enfem partly to get out and show people CDing is fun. It takes time, but the world is becoming a generally more freindly place for everyone.

[Amanda M]

Frankly for me it is quite simple. For a crossdresser to denigrate women for wearing trousers is simply silly. If you are a crossdresser, and you think the GGs around you wearing pants are crossdressing, surely you should be supportive of them?

As to more feminine looking male fashions - kkryptonite indeed! I like my female clothing precisely because that is what it is - female clothing!

So if the pants fit, wear them.

[Nikki Rich]

Ok this topic is very intresting some of the post are so long tho , apparently you've struck a nerve , I am a crossdresser and I live in Alabama , my wife ( which knows I'm a crossdresser and accepts me ) wears jeans and tshirts all the time , I don't feel it makes her a crossdresser in my opinion that's just a silly point of view. I do know even here in Alabama if you shop some where besides Walmart the mens department has some really nice clothes. I guess I just like to look and feel good about myself whether I'm wearing mens or women's clothes , I do have to admit girls jeans fit me better than mens but that's just my body type. I will admit that instead of guys whining about there clothing choices they should show clothing manufacturers that there is a demand for a change and have the balls to go out and by the stuff not just get on here and whin. I'm not to a point yet to go out dressed as a female so I've begain to buy more more male clothes that fit my inner feelings more. I love purple shirts I think that color looks good on me , my wife just recently bought my a black peacoat and I live it , yes I have taken some snide comments from some of my friends about my wardrobe change but that's thier issue not mine
Just my 2 cents for what it's worth.

[Frédérique]

And, with that I also pose the challenge that you don't be one...don't be That CD...*insert visual of angry CD in a skirt pointing at a confused GG in jeans and telling her that you are one and the same* Did it really move you toward what you want? Or, were you just guilty of being one?

Well, I never pay any attention to women wearing men’s clothes, or female clothes based on a male prototype. I mean, let’s be practical! I’m contained in my own little world, happy to a fault, confident in the fact that I don’t have to engage in any sartorial arguments with the other gender. In any event, I’m not out there, on the front line, seeking conflict for its own sake – that would only deflate my enjoyment of CD’ing and make me hate my beloved “self.” I can assure you I won’t be one of them – I’d much rather mind my own business…

[DonniDarkness]

Fashion.

At the end of the day that is what this, Thesis that Shannan has written, is really about...even if the topic has been derailed by the fact that CD's use excuses as to why they dont have Femme styles within their Male wardrobe.

I agree with everything Shannan has said here. Aside from the statement that there aren't femme or androgynous fashions available to men in their "department"
The reason i dont agree with it is because, i have a closet full of androgynous attire.

Skinny jeans(like 10 pairs)...fitted shirts....racer back Tees...Tight fitted shirts (we have a joke here in my family..."Donni likes his Baby Gap T-shirts)...Converse Black on black Chucks....Fitted button ups......Cardigans....Nomad Scarves

And dont get me started on how to layer with mens fashion.....You can take simple wardrobe items you probably already own and make something awesome happen.....

If your wondering how to find all this "femme" stuff in the stores...Open your eyes....its there, its just hard to see it with all the bad fashion choices your bombarded with when walking into the mens department.

I think that the main reason that CD's want to play the blame game is that they are just unhappy with their male attire. I see MtF threads that show their femme selves dressed and presented awesome and then their guy photos look like they have lost hope in life. I have never understood why CD's dont take care to present themselves as well dressed or fashionable men in their daily lives....but yet they go through so much effort for their femme selves....

The fashion industry is changing with the trends that are already here... I wanted to post a few pics from this years Mens fashion trends that are on the rise.

This shirt is fitted and has a slimming line on the sides of the torso that mimic boning and has a 3/4 sleeve. Not to mention the fabric is glimmering satin
mens-shirts-styles-2012-2.jpg

This hoodie is also 3/4 sleeve and has really cool cowl neck design
Trendy-Outfit-Men-2012-284x300.jpg

How about this jacket! This style is fitted and looks incredibly like the Ladies cut leather jackets from the 80's
Japan-Fashion-Summer-2012-Mens.jpg

How about these jeans....I love them!
harry-goodwins-48.jpg

Shoes and boy capris....
Men-Footwear-Trends-2012.jpg

So if your unhappy with your male attire then change it, but dont blame the women in the world for your poor fashion choices or the inability to make your "everyday look" feel less "Drab".

Many here would rather blame society than themselves...or in this case the "GG's In Jeans"

Great post Shan,

-Donni-

PS

I guess I just like to look and feel good about myself whether I'm wearing mens or women's clothes , I do have to admit girls jeans fit me better than mens but that's just my body type. I will admit that instead of guys whining about there clothing choices they should show clothing manufacturers that there is a demand for a change and have the balls to go out and by the stuff not just get on here and whin.

SEE! Ms. Nikki Rich has the right idea! Props and high fives! Inspiring to see other CD's making active and positive choices! GJ

[bridget thronton]

Nice post and many good points to think on

[IngeInCO]

Fashion.

At the end of the day that is what this, Thesis that Shannan has written, is really about...even if the topic has been derailed by the fact that CD's use excuses as to why they dont have Femme styles within their Male wardrobe.

I agree with everything Shannan has said here. Aside from the statement that there aren't femme or androgynous fashions available to men in their "department"
The reason i dont agree with it is because, i have a closet full of androgynous attire.

And dont get me started on how to layer with mens fashion.....You can take simple wardrobe items you probably already own and make something awesome happen.....

If your wondering how to find all this "femme" stuff in the stores...Open your eyes....its there, its just hard to see

So if your unhappy with your male attire then change it, but dont blame the women in the world for your poor fashion choices or the inability to make your "everyday look" feel less "Drab".

Many here would rather blame society than themselves...or in this case the "GG's In Jeans"

Great post Shan,

-Donni-

Wow Donni, as I have been reading through this thread I couldn't help but think very much what you have said. I think men's fashion has taken a more feminine look... If you look. I think you can find many options. You have shown nice examples. In order to foster it we have to buy! They will only make what sells. I like to wear pastel shirts and T's and more feminine cuts, they are in style.

Thanks for the post Shananigans!

[DonniDarkness]

Thanks Inge.

I like pastel shirts too. I was just reminded that last week my wifes brother came over to visit, hes a hunter and a country guy....he walks in our front door wearing a Bright Pink Tee with black and Magenta tribal artwork on it.... i think it was a liquor brand Tee shirt.

I commented on his shirt and said if he wanted to give it a nice home i would pimp it out for him. He declined and said "You know how many compliments from girls i get for wearing this shirt, no way im getting rid of it" We laughed and the conversation moved on.

The next day my daughter and were talking about something(cant remember what it was now) and she spouts off "Real men wear pink Dad."

Shes 11 years old.....Times are changing....and i smiled proudly at her, thanked her for the compliment and gave her a hug.

-Donni-